[00:02] <Bashing-om> JanC: Goats have been under consideration .. does that also entail a milk pail ?
[00:04] <JanC> only after you get them pregnant
[00:04] <OerHeks> Şiş Kebab :-D
[00:05] <Bashing-om> Not me !!
[00:06] <OerHeks> how about putting an Rpi on that machine?
[00:07] <Bashing-om> OerHeks: Rpi ?
[00:07] <OerHeks> raspberry pi
[00:16] <Bashing-om> Well that Rpi would ease the boredom of going round and round !
[01:17] <daftykins> here's Bashing-om's place in the future - https://vine.co/v/inOMT1AIT92
[01:23] <Bashing-om> Hide it ! Do not let my Wife see !!
[01:28] <daftykins> >:D
[02:26] <Bashing-om> I am closing down for the evening, yall have fun without me :)
[06:23] <ducasse> morning, all
[11:28] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[13:45] <BluesKaj> hey EriC^^
[13:45] <EriC^^> hey BluesKaj
[14:15] <pauljw> now i remember why i don't help these morons
[14:16] <BluesKaj> yeah I saw that :-)
[14:16] <pauljw> :)
[14:20] <BluesKaj> sometimes I wonder why some users even bother asking when they constantly object to our suggestions because they can't be bothered to tell us their preferences
[14:22] <pauljw> i don't get it either.  the guy's so brilliant that he's not using a gui, why can't he figure out how to upgrade?
[14:25] <BluesKaj> yeah, he's got his update manager set to LTS
[14:29] <BluesKaj> personally i find the update manager a pita ...don't need it setting a default for me
[14:29] <pauljw> i don't see why he doesn't just do a fresh install on his new system that has nothing on it yet.  again, that's just my uneducated opinion.
[14:31] <BluesKaj> I wasn't aware of his whole situation, that he was ssh'd into remote pc
[14:32] <pauljw> oh, he's just now mentioning that...  he's an ass.
[14:34] <pauljw> he's on my ignore list.  so i'm not seeing anything he's saying.  i'll be back later, have to jump in the shower and run a bunch of errands...  have fun!!
[14:35] <BluesKaj> PaulW2U:  ok , later
[14:44] <daftykins> \o
[15:11] <BluesKaj> hey daftykins
[15:11] <daftykins> how goes it?
[15:13] <BluesKaj> good, just ordered the rpi 3 cankit ...looking forward some kit fun
[15:13] <BluesKaj> to
[15:15] <daftykins> ooh nice
[15:15] <BluesKaj> https://www.canakit.com/raspberry-pi-3-ultimate-kit.html
[15:15] <daftykins> i'm attacking my old core 2 quad desktop today, it's giving me some annoying hassle that might end up requiring a new motherboard
[15:15] <daftykins> wow that's a lot of bits!
[15:18] <BluesKaj> dual core is what I'm using here, old amd 5200+
[16:16] <BluesKaj> was going to oder the 64 bit T3 with more memory etc , but it's too much money considering what i'm going to use it for
[16:43] <daftykins> T3?
[16:44] <daftykins> wow i've done a full disassemble and rebuild of my old machine - it's working now
[16:45] <BluesKaj> nice daftykins ;-0
[16:45] <BluesKaj> oops  :-)
[16:47] <daftykins> :D
[16:47] <daftykins> it might still misbehave if it's off the mains for an hour
[16:53] <coenraad> Hello everybody,from a cozy bar in front of a fireplace at a wintery Debconf Cape Town
[16:53] <nacc> coenraad: did you see ubottu's hint in #ubuntu?
[16:56] <daftykins> i hope your drinks are open source
[16:56] <nacc> heh
[16:58] <coenraad> Everything is open source if there's enough alcohol involved :-p
[16:58] <coenraad> in fact, "free software" if you will
[16:58] <coenraad> So I see we're plotting a "peaceful takeover" of Microsoft...
[16:59] <coenraad> nacc: yes thanks
[17:00] <daftykins> i'll take that to be referring to bug #1
[17:02] <EriC^^> lol
[17:03] <daftykins> hey EriC^^ o/ how goes sir?
[17:03] <EriC^^> :D
[17:03] <EriC^^> hey daftykins
[17:03] <EriC^^> good thanks you?
[17:03] <daftykins> yep much the same :) just done a full rebuild of my old core 2 quad as it was misbehaving
[17:03] <EriC^^> nice
[17:04] <daftykins> thought i was going to have to spend £60 on a motherboard off ebay!
[17:04] <EriC^^> hehe
[17:05] <coenraad> :-D He's been working on this for a while....... good going! Sigh..... we're all on the same team aren't we... I stumbled across Bill Gates' "open letter to the hobbyist computer community" in the Altair days while waiting in a library the other day... interesting progression from there to where Microsoft is today, but you can see the pain that caused Microsoft there already
[17:05] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zd7g9i682g6izyk/AAC7AcXwqim9XwkH7q9_pIGCa?dl=0
[17:05] <daftykins> she's a golden oldie
[17:05] <coenraad> Mr. Gates' gripe was that there's no good software - and his reasoning was that nobody was willing to pay for software...
[17:06] <daftykins> coenraad: no i don't tend to go in for the whole chip on my shoulder about OSs rubbish myself
[17:06] <daftykins> back shortly
[17:07] <coenraad> ... so he proceeded to create a whole ecosystem making software attractive and worth paying for.... yet.... I have the same pain that he had so long ago... TODAY!!!!
[17:07] <coenraad> In fact... software arguably sucks even more today
[17:07] <coenraad> So this is my pain.
[17:09] <coenraad> And it's been sucking progressively more over the last 10 years... getting better in some ways but just generally sucking more, especially to newcomers. I have a small stroke every time I contemplate the route of a line of code takes to the CPU and back.
[17:13] <coenraad> It will take a real visionary, charismatic, rich, influential, respected all-rounder with a lot of patience, dedication and humility to make a change in the way software works today... I honestly thought we'd have moved along much further, way beyond struggling with namespaces, syntax ... text... by now. I think in 10 years from now we'll look back at how people today are writing code the same way we look back at papyrus in ancient Egypt
[17:14] <coenraad> For heaven's sake... I have how many gigaflops at my disposal and I'm bottlenecked by missing semi colons or misaligned tabs
[17:14]  * coenraad *really*
[17:18] <coenraad> ...How does this relate to Ubuntu... Well Ubuntu has some of the ingredients of liberating us from the kludges of technology...
[17:19] <daftykins> not really, everything is at the mercy of the humans who write it
[17:19] <coenraad> true
[17:20] <coenraad> although, we're all captives of our situation.. our situation shapes our imagination which in turn shapes our world...
[17:20] <daftykins> i think you're thinking a bit too big to fit into the topic here :P
[17:21] <coenraad> Peaceful takeover of Microsoft?
[17:22] <nacc> that's not the topic here  :)
[17:22] <daftykins> you might want to type "/topic"
[17:23] <coenraad> Lol
[17:23] <coenraad> I think most people's problem with Microsoft is that Microsoft has not issued any real road map... it's a complex issue, but everything is connected at some level...
[17:23] <coenraad> I'll get on topic -
[17:23] <coenraad> Microsoft is pushing a hardware agenda:
[17:23] <nacc> ... that's not ontopic still ...
[17:23] <coenraad> They progressively slow down their software (just like apple) in order to promote an IT Support industry who promotes selling more and better hardware
[17:24] <coenraad> and this all drives the computing cycle
[17:24] <tsimonq2> coenraad: please keep on topic
[17:24] <coenraad> Okay, getting to the topic, bear with me
[17:24] <nacc> coenraad: you know this isn't a canonical channel, right? this is for volunteers who work on ubuntu (just like #ubuntu). And it's about Ubuntu. Not Windows.
[17:24] <coenraad> yes
[17:24] <daftykins> i'm ignoring you now, you're a prime example of the #1 nutjobs freenode attracts
[17:25] <tsimonq2> daftykins: hey now, no need to insult
[17:26] <coenraad> daftykins: please don't judge me prematurely... give me a moment - if you insist, I will rather do a blog post and share a link... but this relates very closely to Ubuntu. I have switched a lot of people and organisations from Windows to Ubuntu...
[17:26] <tsimonq2> coenraad: blog posts are good ;)
[17:26] <nacc> coenraad: it's taking a long time to get to the point... we're all educated Ubuntu users. tl;dr it for us
[17:27] <coenraad> tsimonq2: also time consuming, and it would be great to get some input before I write them... ?
[17:27] <coenraad> nacc: ok fair point, you're quite patient
[17:27] <nacc> coenraad: as of right now, it's a semi-rant about what microsoft is "doing" to the industry
[17:30] <coenraad> I'll try say it in a very short sentence - question is "Ubuntu in 10 years" and relates to this Canonical/MS venture
[17:31] <nacc> none of us are deciding the roadmap for Ubuntu in 10 years (afaict) :)
[17:31] <coenraad> The main hurdle to me replacing Windows with Ubuntu, is "Libreoffice isn't similar enough to MS Office"
[17:32] <coenraad> And MS office doesn't run the same on Linux as it does on Windows
[17:32] <nacc> that seems like a libreoffice issue...
[17:32] <coenraad> Yes - but it is holding back Ubuntu in a big way
[17:32] <nacc> is it really? or is that your opinion?
[17:32] <coenraad> I don't even advertise and I get more than 10 calls a day from people who accidentally upgraded to Windows 10 whose computers are now unusable
[17:32] <coenraad> because Win10 is too slow
[17:33] <nacc> honestly, who uses a desktop anymore? OEM desktop vendors are dying, which is where office clients matter; otherwise it's all remote/cloud
[17:33] <coenraad> Easy solution is to put Ubuntu on there, which runs great on most of those systems
[17:33] <nacc> :)
[17:33] <coenraad> Everyone who uses a spreadsheet or wordprocessor uses a desktop
[17:33] <coenraad> so thats pretty much everyone who runs a business
[17:33] <nacc> ... google would disagree
[17:33] <nacc> as would microsoft, i think
[17:35] <nacc> so what you said was "The main hurdle to me replacing Windows with Ubuntu, is "Libreoffice isn't similar enough to MS Office"", which to me makes it sounds like you want Ubuntu to be just like Windows. The point, to me, is rather that Ubuntu can be better/different than Windows.
[17:35] <nacc> s/Windows/Microsoft garbage/
[17:35] <coenraad> Now, nothing would please me more than to go out and replace all Windows 10 machines with Ubuntu
[17:35] <coenraad> But people are stuck in their ways and want MS Office - many people are in their 60's and don't want to learn new things
[17:35] <coenraad> they just want to send email, do spreadsheets and wordprocessing
[17:35] <coenraad> and use the shortcuts they know
[17:35] <coenraad> and don't want to feel stupid for not being able to figure out how to do something they've been doing for 20 years
[17:35] <coenraad> nacc: exactly - emphasis on *can*
[17:35] <nacc> so let them?
[17:35] <coenraad> nacc: the freedom to choose, not be dictated how to use
[17:36] <coenraad> nacc: not be dictated when to change and how and to what, but on your own time, or stay the same if you like without having to jump through hoops to do it
[17:36] <nacc> coenraad: yes, but you just said you want libreoffice to be like ms office. Which necessitates being bad like ms office.
[17:37] <nacc> coenraad: compatibility has its costs...
[17:37] <daftykins> might be best not to feed it, nacc
[17:37]  * nacc is sorry if a 60-year old feels stupid, but i'm not sure how that's Ubuntu's fault.
[17:37] <nacc> daftykins: yeah, i might be done
[17:37] <coenraad> Options: 1) Sell them faster hardware 2) Downgrade them to Windows 7 3) Really soften them up, and explain to them a good reason to learn a new office program... (which is tedious and time consuming) I would like an option 4) Install Ubuntu + MS office (or Libreoffice that has same shortcuts) and they can keep using their perfectly fine computer...
[17:38] <nacc> coenraad: talk to microsoft or the libre folks.
[17:39] <coenraad> So as part of the Ubuntu on Windows, I think the Ubuntu partnership should push an agenda that goes both ways...
[17:39] <coenraad> Well sorry I mean Canonical
[17:39] <nacc> coenraad: fine, then talk to Canonical...
[17:39] <nacc> coenraad: this isn't a Canonical channel
[17:40] <coenraad> yes, I noticed... where is the best place to talk to the people at Canonical so that I can be sure to craft my message in a digestible format before I just piss people there off too? :-/
[17:41]  * coenraad battery critical
[17:41] <nacc> coenraad: i assume you can find it on the canonical or ubuntu webpages, dunno
[17:42] <ducasse> coenraad: post to the devel-discuss mailing list?
[17:43] <coenraad> I love how code / development / ubuntu focused you guys are...
[17:45] <tgm4883> err, if you want MS office to run on linux, I'm not sure why you think talking to canonical is going to make that happen
[17:45] <coenraad> I just want to be able to help people extend the life of their computers and helping them not have to spend lots of money on support or admin
[17:45] <coenraad> Canonical seems to know diplomacy...
[17:46] <coenraad> So we'll see
[17:46] <tgm4883> coenraad: so just spending money on training then
[17:47] <tgm4883> coenraad: also, not sure why you think canonical seems to know diplomacy
[17:47] <tgm4883> (one could argue the exact opposite)
[20:49] <DArqueBishop> MS Office for Linux isn't likely, but it's possible. After all, MS is porting SQL Server to Linux...