=== n2deep_ is now known as n2deep
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jdelerswhere can i find the logs for apache2 web server09:58
caribourbasak: just reviewed your comment on the clamav merge : looks like tests are running ok now so I'll drop the delta10:00
caribourbasak: should I just force-push the new merge branch afterward ? look like it worked fine the previous time10:00
hateballjdelers: /var/log/apache210:15
jdelershateball:  what i need is where the console.log("something") will be displayed10:16
jdelersi cannot fins them written in the dir u have shown10:16
mnms_Hi guys10:19
mnms_i tried to fix "Diskfilter writes are not supported" error message If i can say like that10:19
mnms_and I turned off quick boot (to 0)10:19
mnms_now Im getting busybox with initramfs prompt10:19
mnms_any ideas what could happened ?10:20
rbasakcaribou: yes, that worked. I think we can have a choice in the workflow - for simple things just push another commit on the end, and for more complex things where squashing things down would be easier for a re-review then tag a merge.v1 (or v2, etc) and force push an update. In this case I think adding a single commit to the end is fine.10:22
rbasakThe advantage of adding commits is then I just have to review the commits added against my previous comments, trusting my previous review.10:22
caribourbasak: that's what I also thought. will do that & update the MP10:22
rbasakBut for complex changes, sometimes it's easier to re-review the entire thing, in which case squashing everything down and rebasing is easier.10:23
rbasakcaribou: thanks!10:23
=== bradm_ is now known as bradm
tewardrbasak: i'm going to start over with the merge from Debian, and prep some packages for testing via PPA - and then make a call for testing on the Server mailing list.  Do you want me to reply to the pagespeed inquiry in so much that they can check with me if there's going to be a version bump/change in the pipeline?  (I'm usually on the ball with security updates too)11:55
teward^ for nginx11:56
teward('cause i broke something I think)11:56
rbasakteward: sure, introduce yourself :)12:00
coreycbjamespage, libvirt 1.2.12-0ubuntu14.4~cloud1 is ready to promote to kilo-updates13:54
coreycbjamespage, also, horizon 2:9.0.1-0ubuntu2~cloud0 is ready to promote to mitaka-updates13:55
jamespagecoreycb, libvirt doing now13:55
jamespagecoreycb, ok all done14:01
coreycbjamespage, thanks14:01
Haledwhat's the proper way to make mdadm 3.3 boot degraded on 16.04?14:41
hallyngaughen: do you know where users should report bugs against the official (I assume they are) canonical vagrant/vbox images?14:43
hallyn(hashicorp seems to claim canonical provides those - i'd never heard of that)14:43
hallynthere's a bug about ubuntu/xenial64 image taking a long time - on virtualbox, vagrant, on mint, reported against lxc.14:43
hallynjamespage: ^ do you know?14:44
Odd_Blokehallyn: Use the cloud-images project.14:44
hallynOdd_Bloke: will do, thx14:44
Odd_Blokehallyn: Thanks. :)14:44
hallynhm, it says There is no package named 'cloud-images' published in Ubuntu.14:45
hallynoh, project14:45
Odd_Blokehallyn: https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-images14:45
hallyndone thx14:45
jrwreni was just chatting with someone doing a do-release-upgrade and had an idea...15:23
jrwreni wonder if we will ever see apt and servers support http2 so it can keep that connection open and not have to TCP slow start.15:23
tewarddoubt we'll see that any time soon, jrwren15:31
jrwrenteward: unless someone REALLY scratches that itch, eh? ;]15:32
naccrbasak: the more i think about it, the more i htink even SRUs for our team can use the imported tree16:14
naccrbasak: it *should* be supported (upload/ tags) if we get those working, regardless of where they are found in the tree16:14
JanCjrwren: you can plug new protocol backends into APT (there already are HTTP, FTP, torrent, etc. backends), so write one yourself? :)16:30
=== JanC_ is now known as JanC
=== iberezovskiy is now known as iberezovskiy|off
spm_dragetThe 'mdadm' package is part of 'ubuntu-server'… at least 'apt-get purge mdadm' also suggests remove 'ubuntu-server'. So… I could just leave it installed even if I do not need it, no harm done. But when installing software, mdadm service will comlain every time that 'W: mdadm: /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf defines no arrays.'. How to get rid of that warning?17:27
naccspm_draget: dpkg-reconfigure mdadm, iirc17:30
nacctell it to not configure any arrays?17:30
naccerr, not start any17:30
spm_dragetOkay, reconfigured it… the reconfiguring ended with the very same warning xD Oh well, we'll see if it fixed anything.17:33
lochlannwhats the best/fastest method to transfer files from one external hard drive to another external hard drive on a headless ubuntu 14.04 server? Doing this is slow via samba. Hoping there is something faster.18:33
patdk-lapexactly how do you transfer files via samba?18:34
patdk-lapwhy not just use rsync, or cp, or mv18:34
naccspm_draget: fwiw, it's a harmless warning either way18:34
spm_dragetnacc: I know. Just annoying :P18:34
b1tpunk-workattach usb external to headless server, ssh to server, mount usb drive, use mv or cp.18:34
naccspm_draget: yeah :)18:34
naccspm_draget: i had forgotten i see it, tbh18:34
spm_dragetmdadm should not warn but info about an empty config. And I see no reason why it does when I install packages… but oh well18:35
\9I tend to use rsync with --checksum for large transfers, sure it takes much longer but I can be sure that nothing gets lost18:35
naccspm_draget: i think it's a harder (internal to mdadm) problem to solve, sadly18:35
naccspm_draget: it's update-initramfs' trigger that's complaining18:35
naccspm_draget: afaict18:35
lochlannpatdk-lap: via mounting the shared drives on another system through the samba network... but this method is slow18:36
patdk-lapI dunno why you would do that18:36
patdk-lapnow your adding some kind of network and protocol overhead18:36
patdk-lapand samba is known to be very slow18:36
lochlannb1tpunk-work: hopefully this is much faster :)18:36
patdk-lapwhy microsoft is on version 3.2 of it, in attempts to speed it up18:36
b1tpunk-worklochlann: it should be much faster.18:37
lochlannpatdk-lap: because certain devices need samba access to the server18:37
spm_dragetnacc: That could very well be. And yeah, I can imagine the log-evel needs to be adjusted with mdadm upstream. *shrug*18:37
nacclochlann: right, but devices needed samba access doesn't mean you need to use samba for copying files ?18:39
nacclochlann: iiuc, you have two HDDs attached to a linux machine, that are shared over samba to a network, and you want to copy files between them on the Linux machine?18:39
jrwrenis the answer? linux has a copy command, cp. use it.18:40
lochlannnacc: you are correct. one of the media drives is failing so I want to move the contents to another drive (not dd as there is other stuff on the target drive)18:40
nacclochlann: right, so just use cp on the Linux machine? or rsync or whatever18:41
nacclochlann: that has no relevance (afaict) to the samba side of things18:41
nacclochlann: by which, I mean, the samba network will still see both drives, and the files on them (when and if they exist)18:41
lochlannnacc: I know I can... my question was for the best method / fastest way... I was not sure if using ssh to cp/mv was limited in speed over the internal network the way samba is18:41
\9cp only is limited by device i/o18:42
nacclochlann: why would you use ssh? I thought you just said they are both connected to the same Linux machine?18:42
b1tpunk-workNo, the copy isn't going over the ssh18:42
b1tpunk-workit would be a direct copy18:42
lochlannnacc: they are on the same machine.....18:42
b1tpunk-workyou are attaching external storage to the box18:42
nacclochlann: then why would you use ssh? :)18:42
lochlannnacc: to see the terminal18:42
b1tpunk-workThe box is headless18:43
nacclochlann: oh you mean you're ssh'd to the server?18:43
nacclochlann: that has nothing to do with running `cp` on the server...18:43
nacclochlann: ssh $server; cp [-R] /path1 /path218:43
b1tpunk-workOriginal Problem Statement:  whats the best/fastest method to transfer files from one external hard drive to another external hard drive on a headless ubuntu 14.04 server? Doing this is slow via samba. Hoping there is something faster.18:43
lochlannwhen using samba I am limited in transfer speed due to network...... did not know if ssh into machine to cp/mv was affected this same way18:43
nacclochlann: the `cp` itself is being executed on $server18:43
lochlannglad to know it isn't the same..... waiting on samba is tiring, LOL..... especially when I am talking about 3TB worth of data18:45
b1tpunk-workSo, both HDDs are samba shares, he is access the server via samba though his machine, so the data is leaving the machine, going to his machine, only to go back to the source machine.... That is how this whole discussion spiraled18:45
trippeh_that would be the slowest way to do it, indeed.18:46
naccwow, ok. But yes, this has nothing to do with samba, really. lochlann, afaict, your actual question boils down to how do I copy files from one drive to another remotely. And if you have ssh access, just ssh in and run `cp` :)18:46
b1tpunk-workExactly what I told him.18:46
lochlannthis makes my life simpler too.... now I can do it from any machine in the house.... only 1 machine has samba access so always having to come to that machine is a hassle, lol18:46
patdk-lapbut cpu speed will slow down ssh a lot18:46
patdk-lapand even more if you use compression18:46
* trippeh_ moved 40TB today18:47
\9patdk-lap: doesn't matter as far as the copy process is concerned though18:47
patdk-lapah, depends18:47
patdk-lapuse rsync to copy often, never samba18:47
lochlannone time copy :)18:47
patdk-lapsamba is kindof slow, like max of 50MB/sec and maybe 80MB/sec over gigabit if your get lucky18:47
lochlannwell, till the next drive decides it wants to die, LOL18:47
trippeh_patdk-lap: ssh to host, cp from drive a to drive b which both are on same host.18:47
patdk-lapif he can put them on the same host18:48
patdk-lapseems like he wasn't wanting to do that18:48
patdk-lapthat should give >100MB/sec18:48
patdk-lapdepending on file sizes18:48
patdk-lapand if usb2 is used or not18:48
patdk-lapif using usb2, there is just no hope18:48
naccpatdk-lap: my understanding is that physically, the two drives are already on the same host18:49
b1tpunk-workI believe that is a true statement18:49
patdk-lapthey are? then what did samba have to do with this?18:49
patdk-lapvery confusing :)18:49
lochlann^ ^ :)18:49
b1tpunk-workFrom before: So, both HDDs are samba shares, he is access the server via samba though his machine, so the data is leaving the machine, going to his machine, only to go back to the source machine.... That is how this whole discussion spiraled18:50
naccpatdk-lap: yeah, hence the big loop :)18:50
naccb1tpunk-work: my fault, sorry18:50
b1tpunk-workall good18:50
b1tpunk-workat least I wrote it out already18:50
b1tpunk-workcaopy and paste18:50
lochlannall is solved :) no worries anymore lol18:50
b1tpunk-workcopy even18:50
b1tpunk-workor cp18:50
b1tpunk-workto bring this shit full circle18:51
lochlannmy fault.... should have worded the question differently18:51
jrwrenwe are so confused because it is not very often that a user is advanced enough to know how to setup samba, but beginner enough to not know how to copy files.18:51
lochlannI should have said something like .......     is ssh cp/my affected by local network overhead the same way samba is .....   then we wouldn't have had a bomb explode, lol18:51
b1tpunk-workHey, even the most advanced users have brain farts fromtime to time18:51
lochlannjrwen: see my last statement18:52
b1tpunk-worklochlann: even that is confusing18:52
lochlannit wasn't a matter of not knowing how to do it.....18:52
patdk-lapI would recommend throwning nfs into the samba mix18:52
b1tpunk-workand cifs18:52
lochlannstill better than orginal question though18:52
nacclochlann: but you understand now why that is sort of a silly question? :)18:52
b1tpunk-workhell, why not afp too!! =P18:52
patdk-lapdoes anyone know how to use afp? :)18:53
lochlannnacc: the question itself wasn't silly.... the way I portrayed it was :)18:53
b1tpunk-workI do18:53
b1tpunk-workHad a division office that HAD to be all Apple18:53
b1tpunk-workWhy? I have no effing clue18:53
b1tpunk-workBut that is what they wanted18:53
nacclochlann: no, it sort of is. ssh puts you on a remote shell. Running commands there doesn't transfer the contents of files to your local machine. You are running those commands remotely.18:54
b1tpunk-workI am out all. Time to go home and drink beer all weekend!18:54
lochlannnacc: right, and that was what I was trying to find out.... just should have asked better18:54
lochlannthanks b1tpunk-work18:54
lochlannyou need a beer after being able to understand my weird question, lol18:55
b1tpunk-worknp lochlann18:55
* jrwren uses afp and netatalk18:59
=== yebyen is now known as Guest2189
JaguarDownHi all, I have a quick question about remote SSH.19:59
JaguarDownOn Windows with putty you can skip putting in your private key passphrase by storing your key in putty agent and only input the passphrase once which later makes connecting pretty seamless.20:00
JaguarDownIs there a way to automate this when connecting from a linux terminal with openSSH?20:00
patdk-lapsame on ubuntu20:00
patdk-lapbut I haven't figured out why the agent doesn't run correctly on 16.04 by default20:01
OerHeksJaguarDown, openssh-keys, pawsswordless20:01
JaguarDownOkay now that you say that I vaguely remember.20:01
JaguarDownI have an old box home server but it's been offline a while, I'm getting it back up. Haven't used my [beginner] linux skills in a while20:02
JaguarDownThanks patdk-lap and OerHeks20:03
OerHeksafter installing keys, and transferring to client, put in /etc/ssh/sshd_config PubkeyAuthentication yes and off you go20:03
LeMikeHello. I installed a samba service and it is running slow. Several pages on the web did not help. I can transfer to the server with 10 Mb/s but samba only gives me ~1M/s . It uses an usb drive but on this it can write with 22Mb/s. So I think the client is the problem. I am using cifs. Is it always that slow?20:19
=== Bray90820_ is now known as Bray90820
LeMikeBesides: The slow client runs Xubuntu. Testing with OSX the client can upload with ~4Mb/s (for a 128 Mb file).20:20
patdk-lapsamba is slow, the protocol itself was not designed for speed20:23
patdk-lapbut the speed shouldn't be compounded like that20:24
LeMikeI would be happy about 10 M/s at least. And I don't get what is making the whole thing that slow.20:25
jrwrenI've gotten 100MB/s on gigabit with samba, so it shouldn't be that slow unless you have crazy slow CPU.20:26
patdk-lapya, if you have a good cpu, it will cap out at around 300MB/s20:26
patdk-lapnormally cap out at 80MB/s on gigabit20:26
patdk-lapdepends on what protocol your samba is using though20:26
LeMikeThe CPU of the server is just 1Ghz. I don't fix it to a specific protocol yet. Might be a first leverage. SMB2 or 3? After reading several settings for performance boost it is almost down to it's defaults besides minor changes to match the MTU20:28
LeMike(only smb and owncloud is running there, so it's mostly idle)20:30
goddardI need to create a vm and eventually move it to a vm server that is internet facing.  What software should I use to do this?  I need something relatively easy to manage and setup that will support web, db, and email.20:32
ikoniagoddard: how do you expect to create a vm without a vm server ?20:48
ikoniaor are you looking at transportable images ?20:49
goddardi was thinking I could create it on my workstation and move it over as the host machine will have to host the vm for a short period while I install the vm server software on the server20:50
goddardone 1 server exists but i can't have down time20:50
goddarddns servers are setup with 2 ip addresses so it makes it much easier20:50
ikoniagoddard: you'll find it easier and simpler to create in situ on the target platform20:51
goddardno doubt, but not an option20:51
goddardonly 1 server20:51
ikoniawhat has 1 server got to do with anything ?20:52
goddardhow can i install new software on a system that is running the server that needs not to have downtime?20:52
ikoniadon't wait until you have your second vm server20:52
ikoniathen just install on the target, simple and easy and clean20:53
goddardi dont have a second server20:53
ikoniathen how are you going to move it somehwere if you don't have somewhere to move it to20:53
goddardit is just a workstation that will run the vm for a short period so i can reinstall the OS on the actual server20:53
ikoniacould you not just run the softrware on the desktop20:54
ikoniarather than make it more complex20:54
ikoniaand then re-install the server and move the software bac20:54
ikoniais there an actual requirement for a vm20:54
goddardyeah that is what i was planning20:54
ikoniaor is it just "run the services while I reinstall"20:54
ikoniaok - so you don't need a vm then20:54
ikoniayou just need to run the software20:55
goddardi just don't know what software would make most sense20:55
ikoniayou must know the software you are running on the machine you need to re-install20:55
goddardyeah just run the services while i reinstall20:55
goddardi know what software and services i will run in the vm but I don't know which vm server software to use20:55
ikoniawhy do you need a vm20:56
ikoniacan't you just run the services on the desktop20:56
ikoniakeep it simple20:56
goddardrunning a vm means i can easily move it and dont have to perform the transfer twice20:56
goddardalso can assign the vm a static ip20:56
ikoniayou can assign a static ip to a desktop20:56
goddardalso can use the server for other things20:56
ikoniayou can use the desktop for other things20:57
goddardikonia: not if the desktop is used for other things20:57
ikoniagoddard: if the desktop is used for other things, it won't be able to host a vm20:57
ikoniaI'm not seeing sane reasoning here20:57
goddardikonia: it will if it is for a short period of time20:57
ikoniaI'm seeing a desire for a transportable VM when there isn't really a need20:57
ikoniagoddard: right, so just keep it simple, move the services to the desktop, re-insall your server and move them back20:57
ikoniayou're adding complexity with a vm that's just not needed20:58
goddardit doesn't work like that and i would then have a bunch of extra garbage on the workstation20:58
ikoniaso ?20:58
ikoniawhat are the services you're trying to migrate ?20:58
goddardim going to use a vm20:58
ikoniaok, use a vm then20:58
goddardi just dont know what to use20:58
ikoniathen you sohld20:59
ikoniaread up and work out what you want to use if you're blindly using a vm20:59
ikoniaI'm not laughing20:59
goddarddid say you were20:59
ikoniano, but you said "ha ha" suggesting you found it funny20:59
trippeh_install libvirt-bin, qemu-system-x86 and virt-manager on the desktop. fairly easy to use.21:00
goddardi did21:00
nacctrippeh_: i think there are issues with 'live migration', but offline migration with libvirt should work ok21:00
goddardtrippeh_: sure i know how to do all that, but then what issues would you encounter when trying to push that to the cloud server?21:00
ikoniagoddard: "cloud server" ???21:00
ikoniawhat are you talking about21:00
ikoniacloud is just virtualization21:01
goddardyes it is21:01
ikoniaso why would you have a problem then ?21:01
goddardwhy would i?21:01
bekksSo which hypervisors are supported by the hoster of your "cloud server"?21:01
ikoniayes, why would you21:01
ikoniabekks: he hasn't gone one21:01
ikoniawhich is why I keep saying just do it "in situ"21:01
goddardbekks: i am the hoster21:01
ikoniawait until you do and then do it once there21:01
bekksgoddard: Then which cloud are you talking about?21:02
goddardbekks: that is what I am asking21:02
naccgoddard: if *you* are the "cloud server", then what issues could you possibly hit?21:02
ikoniagoddard: ????21:02
naccgoddard: it makes quite literally, no sense. You have 100% control over both environments, it sounds like21:02
goddardbekks: i know ubuntu has its own "cloudish" platform and proxmox and countless others21:02
ikoniagoddard: you're not making sense, you're asking what issues you'd have going to your own personal cloud server....that doesn't exist21:02
bekksgoddard: you are the hoster. not running any cloud. so what cloud are you talking about?21:02
ikoniagoddard: if you want a really easy path - don't use a vm21:03
ikoniamove the services, install your "cloud" server then just build a vm21:03
ikoniamigrate your services to that new vm21:03
ikoniayou'll find it a lot easier if you're not comfortable with the technology21:03
goddardikonia: please stop suggesting that it won't work my friend21:03
ikoniagoddard: why won't it work21:03
ikoniawhat's the actual problem21:03
ikonia(or potential problem)21:04
goddardi am going to to create a VM, which method and software to create the VM I don't know that is why I am asking.  In conjunction with my first statement I don't know what cloud server software to use to run on my server.21:05
naccgoddard: here is my read of your problem. You have a server and a workstation. You are going to reinstall the server so that it can run VMs. You want to 'save' the state of the server to a VM running on the workstation, and then migrate that VM to the server after it has been reisntalled. Is that correct?21:05
ikoniagoddard: "cloud server" ???21:05
ikoniagoddard: again, it's ust virtualization21:05
bekksgoddard: Forget about "cloud software".21:05
goddardikonia: yes i get it you are stuck on terms21:06
bekksgoddard: You are just asking which hypervisor you should use.21:06
ikoniagoddard: I'm not stuck on terms21:06
goddardpeople call it a cloud server and i realize it is a virtualization management system21:06
ikoniagoddard: you are just saying words21:06
bekksAnd THAT question is just up to you needs, whishes desires.21:06
ikoniagoddard: right, so the managment doesn't matter21:06
ikoniagoddard: what matters is the actual virtualization21:06
ikoniayou don't seem to have a solid grasp on the virtual platform (not calling you for that) which is why I'm trying to suggest you a path that will allow you to do it easy while learn/understand how it works21:07
goddardSo what cloud server software does ubuntu server recommend?21:08
ikoniait's up to you21:08
ikoniait's what you like/what you want to use21:08
ikoniait's very much down to technical requirements and personal preference21:08
ikoniaand sometimes budget21:08
ikoniagoddard: you've only got 1 host right ?21:09
goddardi only have 1 server that will stay up for ever21:09
ikoniagoddard: right, so you don't really want "cloud" type setup, you just want a box to host VM's ?21:09
ikoniaright, so forget all that21:10
ikoniajust build a box that is a VM host,21:10
naccjust use libvirt + kvm/qemu21:10
ikoniause the technology you like to host the VM's and keep it simple21:10
ikoniakvm, xen, virtualbox, whatever you like21:10
naccor if you have one you know better (virtualbox, vmware, etc.)21:10
ikoniabut forget clouds and cloud layouts, you're just going to create a problem21:11
jrwrengoddard: uvt fronts virsh very nicely and makes it easy to start ubuntu virtual machines.21:11
jrwrengoddard: but if that is all you need, you might consider using LXD instead of VM.21:11
naccjrwren: good point21:12
jrwrengoddard: what are you trying to do?21:13
goddardwant to keep a web services, database, and email running and then install something like proxmox or similar software on the server to move that vm to the server21:15
ikoniapromox has problems with the core config files on ubuntu based distros, bit like webmin used to21:16
bekksFor the entire time of moving the vm, you will have a downtime.21:16
ikoniaso be very careful21:16
ikoniaand again - it's probably over the top for 1 vm host21:16
naccproxmox seems like huge overkill for this21:17
goddardbekks: nah because i will set the other vm up with the second ip which will run the vm on a workstation while i am doing the install21:17
ikoniaI don't get why it's being made into a complex mess21:17
ikoniamove the services onto the desktop - no VM21:17
ikoniabuild a new host, build a vm21:17
ikoniamigrate services to vm21:17
ikoniazero downtime21:17
ikoniazero risk, zero problem21:17
bekksgoddard: So enlighten us how you are going to move an entire vm from one host to another without some HA functionality available.21:17
goddardikonia: i really don't understand how you think that is possible based on what I told you.21:19
goddardI have 1 server21:19
ikoniagoddard: you've not told me what the problem is with doing it21:19
goddard1 workstation21:19
ikoniagoddard: what are the services that run on the server21:19
ikonia(the ones you want to migrate)21:20
bekksgoddard: So move services to the workstation, setup your server, setup a vm, move your services to the vm.21:20
goddardIt is going to run the LAMP stack amoung other things21:20
bekksI dont see the problem in doing so.21:20
ikoniagoddard: ok - so thats no problem21:20
ikoniagoddard: lamp stack will work great on a desktop, no problem there21:20
ikoniagoddard: what else ?21:20
goddardbekks: that means moving things twice and what if you have to do it again?21:20
goddardit also disregards the current configuration21:20
bekksgoddard: If you want to do that again, move the vm.21:21
goddardwhich may be different then the new configuration21:21
goddardor even different operating systems21:21
ikoniagoddard: thats how you migrate21:21
ikoniayou migtate from old to new21:21
bekksIf you cant create a copy of a service config on anotherhost, maybe you should not migrate stuff.21:21
goddardikonia: which is easy if you are moving to a similar configuration21:21
ikoniagoddard: what OS does the desktop run21:21
goddardikonia: the transfer will be done by hand21:21
ikoniagoddard: so ?21:22
ikoniathats good21:22
goddardno easy button to transfer services21:22
goddardwhy do it twice?21:22
ikoniagoddard: good21:22
ikoniabecausae you don't seem to understand how to do it once21:22
goddardwhy replicate the environment and install things twice?21:22
ikoniaso doing it safe and simple seems the best way21:22
goddardthat is an huge waste of time21:22
ikonianot at all21:22
ikoniait's a simple and safe way21:22
ikoniagoddard: what OS is the desktop running21:22
goddardand i also wouldn't have a vm server21:22
ikoniagoddard: of course you would, you build it on the VM host21:23
ikoniaand migrate to it knowing its up, it's routing, its working21:23
goddardthis is headless21:23
ikoniaheadless is not a problem21:23
ikonianot quite sure why thats even being brought up21:23
ikoniagoddard: what OS is the desktop running21:23
goddardikonia: the workstation is ubuntu21:23
ikoniaubuntu what21:23
goddardthe server is centos21:23
ikoniaand centos what21:24
goddardcentos 721:24
ikoniagoddard: and your VM - will the VM be ubuntu or centos21:24
bekksAnd whats the problem with Centos 7, which is support for aeons, still? :D21:24
goddardthe vm will be ubuntu21:24
ikoniagoddard: ok - so that is the perfect way to do it21:24
ikoniagoddard: migrate from centos to your workstation running 16.0321:24
ikoniathen build your VM host, and your VM guest21:24
ikoniathen migrate the services back knowing it works21:25
ikoniaand knowing your vm is up, routed and running stable21:25
goddardand then migrate again? and do the work twice?21:25
ikoniabecause it's not21:25
ikoniaone you've done it once, it's just copying the config giles21:25
goddardit is already running stable now21:25
ikoniawhat's running stable now ?21:25
goddardi will know if it works by building the vm on the workstation and changing the host file21:26
goddardthen just move the vm to the server21:26
ikoniathat proves nothing21:26
goddardit proves it requires less work21:26
ikoniaas that will all change when you move it to a difference host with different routing21:26
ikonianot it won't21:26
ikoniaonce you've done centos -> ubuntu migration on your desktop21:26
* bekks wanders off21:26
goddardthe routing is the same and just a static ip assignment21:27
ikoniait's very quick to do ubuntu -> ubuntu migration21:27
ikoniagoddard: a static ip is not routing or virtual network routing21:27
ikoniathats just the presentation21:27
goddardso your idea is I should migrate from centos to ubuntu on the work station and then migrate again to the server21:27
ikoniagoddard: that is the safest approach21:27
ikoniayou can test the vm properly before migrating services to it21:28
goddardmy idea is create a vm on the workstation and migrate from the server and then move 1 file to the server after setup21:28
ikoniaand you can do all the migration work, while leacing your existing server running21:28
ikoniagoddard: yeah, it's not as simple as moving a file21:28
ikoniayour setups will not be transportable like that21:28
goddardisn't that why people use a vm?21:28
ikoniathat is totally do-able and achieveable21:29
ikoniajust not how you want to do it21:29
ikoniaand with your understanding21:29
ikoniayou'll probably understand it better once you build the vm host/guest21:29
ikoniaand see how things like the network routing is done at a virtual and physical level21:29
goddardan easy problem to tackle with 2 ip addresses21:30
ikoniano, it's not21:30
ikoniaip addresses are not routing21:30
ikoniathey are just the presenstation21:30
goddardone ip can keep the server running on the workstation while the other gets setup21:30
ikoniaI suggest you just do it then21:30
ikoniaas you'll not listen21:30
bekksAfter finishing the config in your vm, you need to shitut it down for moving it to your server.21:31
bekksThat means "downtime".21:31
ikoniayou'll also need to reconfigure the VM21:31
bekksYou cannot leave the vm up and running while migrating it.21:31
ikoniaas your workstations hardware and virtual network configuration and routing will be different21:31
ikoniawhich is means your VM may not come up21:31
ikoniaor appear on the network - so it's down21:31
ikoniawhile you troubleshoot21:31
ikoniawhere as if you have a box up and running and you know it's good, you migrate the services knowing it's working21:32
ikoniaand you can do it a lot easier on the fly21:32
goddardso potential down time is as long as the vm takes to copy21:32
bekksEven longer.21:33
ikoniapotentical down time is your vm copy time, your re-configuration time and troubleshooting any problems21:33
goddardikonia: well not re-config time because you can just put the server up after you copy21:33
ikoniagoddard: no you can't21:33
ikoniaagain - this is what I mean about your lack of understanding21:34
goddardit isn't a massivly used server21:34
ikoniaso ?21:34
ikoniahow does it's usage change anything ?21:34
goddardit might have small differences like a few emails being recieved21:34
ikoniait's not that sort of difference21:34
ikoniathis is pointless - you seem to be asking "how does this work" then saying "no, thats not how it works" when you are told21:34
ikoniawhat's the point of asking ?21:34
ikoniajust get on with it21:34
goddardso reconfiguring a vm is impossible21:34
goddardthat is what you are saying21:34
ikoniafar from it21:35
goddardit is so difficult no one can do it21:35
patdk-lapit's simple to very annoying21:35
patdk-lapbut it is never foolproof21:35
ikoniait depends on the hosts and guest configuration21:35
goddardthis is a simple network21:35
ikoniano - it's not21:35
goddardthis isn't a fortune 500 company21:35
ikoniabecause you're on a physical network now,21:35
ikoniayou'll need to do virtual networking with routing21:35
ikoniathen routing to the physical network of the host21:36
goddardyes and that is why interfaces exist to help with that is it not?21:36
ikoniawhich will be different than your other host21:36
ikoniano, it's really not21:36
ikoniaif you don't understand how it works - no interface will help21:36
ikoniabuilding it will probably help you understand which is why I keep suggesting a specific approach21:36
goddardthe server has a specific ip and then the vm has a specific ip and then you can control ports21:37
goddardi don't understand what you are talking about21:37
ikoniaright - you don't understand21:37
ikoniathat is the key thing21:37
patdk-lapip's don't work without a proper network21:37
goddardthat means nothing21:38
patdk-lapand since the network is virtual now, that is much more complex21:38
ikoniagoddard: it means every thing21:38
ikoniajust because they have the same ip on two different networks, you can't expect them to work the same21:38
patdk-laphell, even though I use esxi and pay vmware for licensing21:38
patdk-lapand they make it *very simple*21:38
patdk-lapI still have lots of odd issues, and driver problems21:39
patdk-lapthat only come into play when attempting to do virtual networks that touch physcial networks21:39
goddardive setup tons of vms and exposed them to the internet without problem21:40
goddardi dont get what you are going on about21:40
ikoniaI don't understand how you can "setup tons of vms" and not understand the networking21:40
ikoniaand if you've done tons of vm's how are you asking us "what software to use" and "how to do this"21:41
goddardikonia: thats becuase the software i use handles it i just give it an ip21:41
ikoniagoddard: so you've not done anything then21:41
goddardi dont have to know how a virtual machine and a physical machine route traffic21:41
ikoniayou've just used a vm21:41
goddardthat is the softwares job21:41
ikoniayou do now21:41
ikoniaas you want to host it21:41
ikoniausing a vm is different than hosting a vm host21:41
patdk-lapsomeone had to make that software21:41
patdk-lapand have it conform to some kind of network design21:42
ikoniagoddard: it seems you don't really want to listen to experience - you know it all already, it's easy21:42
ikoniaso just get on and do it21:42
patdk-lapor conform the physical network to it's design21:42
patdk-lapeither way you need to know how it works21:42
ikoniathere seems little point in any more discussion21:42
ikoniajust get on with it21:42
goddardikonia: im trying to understand but how can i know what I don't know21:43
ikoniagoddard: then start listening21:44
ikoniarather than telling us how it works21:44
ikonialisten to how it works and try to understand21:44
goddardyou aren't giving me examples or solutions you are just giving me your alternatives21:44
ikoniamy alternatives are examples of solutions21:44
patdk-lapah, you want a tutorial21:44
ikoniayou've got it in your head how it works21:44
goddardikonia: i know and i get that21:44
patdk-lapbut a tutorial is the same, it conforms things to that users needs21:45
ikoniagoddard: is there a genuine reason you don't want to do what I've suggested21:45
ikoniaas I think if you do it how I've suggeted you'll hit some problems, but learn a LOT more21:45
ikoniaif you do it how you want to do it with the level of understanding you have, you will fail21:45
terjeanyone know of a tutorial for installing 16.04 + maas + juju + openstack?21:49
terjeor should I document my adventure.. :)21:49
ikoniaterje: the software install is easy, you'll need to plan it out as a layout before looking at config options21:50
ikoniaterje: certainly sounds like something that would be worth documenting depending on your layout21:50
terjesure, I have a pretty standard setup I'd imagine.21:50
ikoniagoddard: why are you showing us that ?21:51
terje8 physicals with 3 nic's, 2 disks21:51
terjeI wish to run ceph for cinder volumes, etc.21:51
terjeI guess I'll see how it goes.21:51
goddard_ikonia: it is a network interface editor screen21:51
ikoniaterje: get it documented !21:51
ikoniagoddard_: so ?21:51
ikoniagoddard_: what does that have to do with anything ?21:51
goddard_ikonia: so what complicates would i run into after transfering the vm and how can it be avoided21:52
ikoniagoddard_: everything I've just said21:52
ikoniagoddard_: if you're that confident it's that simple/easy - just do it21:52
ikoniaget on with doing it21:52
=== terje is now known as 6A4AA5LGC
=== Guest91395 is now known as terje
goddard_ikonia: you just told me it will have a different interface21:53
ikoniagoddard_: what ?21:53
ikoniagoddard_: I said nothing about different interfaces21:53
ikoniaI said having an interface won't help if you don't understand how the networking works21:53
goddard_nothing works if you don't understand it but that doesn't help21:55
ikoniawhat ?21:55
goddard_dont know how my os does absolutely everything it does but it doesn't prevent me using it21:55
ikoniagoddard_: why are you not doing this ?21:55
6A4AA5LGCikonia: I will.. just so I can repeat. :)21:55
ikoniathen get on with doing it21:55
=== 6A4AA5LGC is now known as terje
JaguarDownAny danger in running apt-get autoremove if aptitude told me to because a bunch of packages are "no longer required?"22:18
ikoniaJaguarDown: nope22:20
JaguarDownWhile I'm on the subject...22:21
JaguarDownI'm still running 14.04, I suppose I should do a backup etc, but any danger of breaking things by upgrading to 16.04?22:22
JaguarDownI'm running pretty standard things like apache, an ircd, email stuff, etc.22:22
naccJaguarDown: i'd wait til 16.04.1 before upgrading22:32
ubottuUsers of 14.04 LTS will be offered the automatic upgrade when 16.04.1 LTS is released, which is scheduled for July 21st.22:32
JaguarDownOkay, I didn't know that, thanks.22:35
naccJaguarDown: np22:39
SeveasJaguarDown: I think you'll be getting the apache 2.2 to 2.4 upgrade, which has some backwards incompatibilities23:35

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