[15:28] <cmaloney> Yaym, upgrading to the latest LXC broke my workflow. :)
[15:31] <rick_h_> doh
[15:38] <cmaloney> No worries. I needed to migtate to LXD anyway
[15:38] <cmaloney> but, y'know, not today. :)
[16:19] <greg-g> wait, there's lxd now?
[16:19]  * greg-g missed something
[16:21] <cmaloney> greg-g: Yeah, that's for user-land lxc containers
[16:22] <greg-g> ahhhh
[16:31] <jcastro> I can't go back to old-school lxc anymore
[16:31] <jcastro> I didn't even know people still used old lxc
[16:31] <jcastro> heh
[16:31] <rick_h_> I still miss the bind to my home dir in lxd
[16:31] <rick_h_> that was the killer feature that I can't get past
[16:31] <cmaloney> yeah, some of us still have "legacy"
[16:32] <jcastro> yeah, it'd be nice to do a convenience thing like how vagrant does it
[16:32] <rick_h_> though it was fun to launch 40 lxd containers with 4 models of realtime-syslog-analytics at once yesterday
[16:32] <jcastro> pas a --developer or something
[16:32] <cmaloney> Strangely, I added the stable ppa and upgraded and things are back to normal
[16:32] <jrwren> rick_h_: you can still bind homedir with lxd.
[16:32] <jcastro> cmaloney: the thing is old lxc was so confusing to me that I prefered to not use it
[16:32] <rick_h_> jrwren: ? I couldn't find a way to do that?
[16:32] <jcastro> it's like, doing simple things required reading the man page
[16:33] <jcastro> now it's all super simple and the commands make sense
[16:33] <cmaloney> jcastro: If I could get lxd to run without bitching then I'd switch to it
[16:33] <jcastro> 16.04?
[16:33] <rick_h_> jrwren: there was stuff about how mounting the home dir wasn't allowed as part of preventing security issues/etc
[16:33] <cmaloney> 14.04
[16:33] <jcastro> oh, well you can just do it whenever you upgrade?
[16:33] <jrwren> rick_h_: yes, it requires a privilged container, which is what lxc was using before. I'll link you to a script.
[16:33] <jrwren> rick_h_: i've done it. lots of yellow team is doing it.
[16:33] <jcastro> because tbh, if you're using lxd you also should use zfs, it changed my life
[16:34] <cmaloney> jcastro: Right, and I'll make that change later. :)
[16:34] <jrwren> +1 lxd on ZFS is a must.
[16:34] <jcastro> like, real measurable minutes per deployment that adds up to real efficiency gains
[16:34] <jrwren> even if it is a ZFS that is on a loopback file. its still excellent.
[16:34] <jcastro> and that's just for one person
[16:34] <rick_h_> jcastro: jrwren do you use zfs on it's own device?
[16:34] <rick_h_> yea, I just use that loopback atm
[16:34] <jcastro> if your team is using it you're literally saving money
[16:34] <jrwren> rick_h_: I have machines on both.
[16:34] <jcastro> rick_h_: yeah, one HDD, one SSD for caching
[16:35] <jrwren> rick_h_: ZFS on LVM thinpool too
[16:35] <cmaloney> jcastro: We're just now working on Ansible deployments, so baby-steps
[16:35] <jcastro> loopback is a nice workaround but it prefers dedicated disks
[16:35]  * cmaloney braces for the OMGWTFBBQ
[16:35] <jcastro> because I might as well take advantage of snapshotting etc. for other things
[16:36] <jcastro> what I do on all new installs now is install, then I make a new zfs pool with a dedicated disk, I call it "home"
[16:36] <jcastro> which then gets automounted as /home
[16:36] <jcastro> then recreate my user dir, chown it, blammo, zfs for home directory
[16:36] <jcastro> tell zfs and docker to use the zfs backends, done.
[16:37] <jcastro> less than 2 seconds for each new instance of an OS
[16:37] <jrwren> rick_h_: https://github.com/bac/yellow-tools/blob/master/lxd-launch
[16:37] <rick_h_> jrwren: ty
[16:37] <jrwren> rick_h_: the tricks are -c security.privileged=true and lxc config device add $name home disk source=$HOME path=/home/$user
[16:37] <rick_h_> jrwren: gotcha
[16:38] <cmaloney> See, this is the ubuntu-us-mi channel I love: make an off-handed comment and get multiple ways on how to make things better. :)
[16:38] <jcastro> lol
[16:38] <jcastro> without a doubt lxd with zfs is probably one of the top 5 things this decade that has literally changed my professional life
[16:38] <cmaloney> brb - lunch
[16:38] <jcastro> it's up there with "SSDs"
[16:38] <jcastro> and "3 monitors"
[16:39] <jrwren> ha!
[16:39] <jrwren> now if only charms weren't such a pain, eh jcastro ?  /zing
[16:39]  * jrwren ducks
[16:39] <jcastro> yeah but that's your fault jay
[16:39] <jrwren> lol.
[16:40] <jcastro> I'll never need KVM or virtualbox ever again
[16:40] <jcastro> there's just no escape, <2 seconds to an instance is just too brutally awesome.
[16:41] <jcastro> and I don't mean like, 2 seconds, then wait to do stuff
[16:41] <jcastro> I mean 2 seconds counting going into the new instance
[16:41] <jrwren> or less.
[16:41] <jcastro> "But wait, most of that is typing the exec command to go into the container".
[16:41] <jcastro> yes.
[16:41] <jrwren> surely on that new BEAST of a server you got its less than 500ms.
[16:42] <jrwren> I feel like it is well under 2s on my ancient home server.
[16:42] <jcastro> it's a beast, but it's old
[16:42] <jcastro> so it's like, 2010 ear
[16:42] <jrwren> oh!
[16:42] <jcastro> but it's about 3 seconds
[16:42] <jrwren> how are you timing? I want to check mine.
[16:42] <jcastro> on a modern machine, with an NVM-E SSD? sheeeeeeeeet.
[16:43] <jcastro> time lxc launch ubuntu:16.04
[16:43] <jrwren> watch mine take minutes because it refreshes the image.
[16:43] <jrwren> hahaha,,, yup... retreiving image.
[16:43] <jcastro> yeah, it just means you haven't used that image in 10+ days
[16:43] <jrwren> yup.
[16:44] <jcastro> also, I totally forgot some bash shell things that are useful
[16:45] <jcastro> lxc delete juju-whatever-[1..10] will kill 10 orphaned containers
[16:45] <jcastro> oh, you'll need a --force on that one
[16:46] <jrwren> even fetching the image it launched in 40s. second launch took 4.47s
[16:47] <jrwren> I guess i'm not as impatient as I thought.
[16:47] <jcastro> yeah, for one offs 2 secs vs. 5 is no big deal
[16:47] <jcastro> it's when you're like "hey coworker wants you to test this 15 node monster" when it really pays off
[16:49] <jrwren> ya know what bugs me???  juju uses destroy. lxc uses delete. snap uses remove. ALL TO DO CONCEPTUALLY THE SAME THING!!!
[16:49]  * jrwren rages
[16:49] <jcastro> I know
[16:50] <jcastro> I find myself `juju list`ing alot
[16:50] <jcastro> which comes from `lxc list`
[16:50] <jrwren> oh yeah.
[16:50] <jcastro> to be fair, snaps ootb learned from juju's evolution though
[16:51] <jcastro> `snap login` is exactly the same as juju's login thing
[16:51] <jcastro> they both 2FA the same too
[16:52] <jrwren> yup, lots of good stuff.
[17:29] <cmaloney> Hey, as soon as LXC does WIndows I'll ditch Virtualbox. :)