[05:30] <anton_may> mornings
[05:50] <paddatrapper> Morning everyone 
[06:05] <anton_may> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/07/15/notice-of-security-breach-on-ubuntu-forums/
[06:10] <thatgraemeguy> mornings
[06:12] <anton_may> o/
[06:12] <Kilos> o/
[06:12] <Kilos> morning everyone
[06:30] <SEptic> morning
[06:30] <Kilos> hi SEptic inetpro and others
[06:30] <Kilos> hi Cryterion 
[06:30] <Cryterion> Morning
[06:30] <Kilos> seen superfly
[06:31] <Kilos> Maaz seen superfly
[06:31] <Maaz> Kilos: superfly was last seen 11 hours, 31 minutes and 29 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2016-07-17 11:59:37 PDT], and has been offline on freenode since 2016-07-17 23:03:03 PDT
[06:34] <Kilos> wb superfly 
[06:34] <Kilos> morning
[07:59] <SEptic> ... busy installing kubuntu
[08:17] <inetpro> good evening
[08:20] <Kilos> wbb
[08:28] <Sicelo> good morning
[08:28] <magespawn> good morning
[08:28] <Sicelo> :)
[08:29] <Sicelo> want to hear about my KDE experience?
[08:31] <Sicelo> i definitely find that for me, both KDE & Gnome are fine .. they are all just launchers .. moving to KDE last night i sturggled to find two WM feature that i generally 'depend' on : 1. focus-follows-mouse, and 2. multiple workspaces. 
[08:33] <magespawn> have not used KDE that much, last time was about 5 years ago
[08:33] <Sicelo> eventually found the workspace config (gnome enables them by default). focus-follows-mouse was harder to get, but after some online searching, got it too .. i'll stick with KDE on the old lappy, but yes, either KDE or Gnome wfm ..
[08:34] <Sicelo> now got to find how to make konqueror a proper web browser, instaed of being half-browser & half-file manager
[08:37] <Sicelo> what do you use magespawn?
[08:38] <magespawn> kali linux and debian, both gnome based
[08:41] <Sicelo> awesome. debian for me too
[08:42] <magespawn> thei version of kali is debian based, so essentially debian'
[08:48] <magespawn> this
[08:50] <Sicelo> yes, kli is maintained by Raphael Hertzog .. a DD ;)
[08:54] <inetpro> Sicelo: what's wrong with Dolphin?
[08:55] <inetpro> I don't even have konqueror installed
[08:56] <inetpro> dolphin is the default file manager on KDE these days
[08:56]  * inetpro uses mainly Firefox for web browsing
[08:57] <MaN1> why not krusader :p
[09:01] <inetpro> Maaz: is www.krusader.org down?
[09:01] <Maaz> inetpro: Yes, http://www.krusader.org/ is down (Server is not responding)
[09:02] <inetpro> MaNI: convince kde guys to make it the default
[09:02]  * theblazehen wishes I could snapshot and roll back physical hardware
[09:03]  * theblazehen starts thinking about zfs snapshots and CRIU
[09:03] <inetpro> theblazehen: what broke?
[09:04] <Rynomster> morning peoplez :)
[09:04] <Sicelo> inetpro: dolphin is perfectly fine. i hate that konqueror is a dolphin-wannabe
[09:05] <inetpro> theblazehen: use rsnapshot 
[09:05] <inetpro> Sicelo: no, no... konqueror used to be awesome
[09:05] <MaNI> konqueror existed long before dolphin though
[09:05] <MaNI> so you can't really say its a 'dolphin-wannabe'
[09:05] <Sicelo> for me it is :)
[09:06] <inetpro> dolphin only came later
[09:06] <MaNI> basically when kde4 came out, they tried to make konqueror a web browser only and split the file managing stuff out into dolphin
[09:06] <Sicelo> file-manager wannabe then :)
[09:06] <MaNI> but a lot of people missed various konqueror functionality, so they back peddled a bit - so konqueror continues to do both as well
[09:06] <Sicelo> KISS principle ... 
[09:07] <inetpro> konqueror became too much of everything for everyone and became very difficult to maintain
[09:07] <inetpro> and dolphin started off as a very basic file manager because of the difficulties in maintaining konqueror
[09:08] <Sicelo> anyway, KDE works. Gnome works. good enough for me :)
[09:09] <Sicelo> i'll keep KDE on the lappy, and Gnome on my PC
[09:10] <inetpro> at first look, dolphin is a very simple file manager, but it has many talents these days and is very stable now as well
[09:11] <MaNI> I'd not actually recommend konqueror as a browser at this point though, I must say
[09:11] <inetpro> https://userbase.kde.org/Dolphin
[09:11] <MaNI> if you are fine with dolphin you should probably just use dolphin and (opera or firefox or chromium) and forget about konqueror
[09:12] <Sicelo> oh. what's the problem with konqueror in connection with browsing?
[09:14] <Sicelo> i do have FF though .. but just curious
[09:14] <MaNI> not so much a problem with the software as a case of, nobody tests their sites for it, so you are more likely to run into broken web pages
[09:14] <inetpro> Sicelo: that ^^
[09:15] <Sicelo> ah
[09:22] <inetpro> konqueror uses KHTML as its layout engine... but I am not sure whether this is still 100% true
[09:22] <inetpro> WebKit's HTML and JavaScript code was originally a fork of the KHTML and KJS libraries from KDE
[09:23] <MaNI> you can now pick I think between KHTML and webkit backend
[09:23] <inetpro> webkit has now been further developed by individuals from KDE, Apple, Google, Nokia, Bitstream, BlackBerry, Igalia, and others. OS X, Windows, Linux, and some other Unix-like operating systems are supported by the project
[09:23] <MaNI> chromium, opera etc. now use blink, blink is a fork of webkit, which was a fork of khtml
[09:23] <MaNI> only safari (I think) still uses webkit
[09:24] <inetpro> fact is, konqueror was a good base for what we see on today's web browsers
[09:24] <MaNI> I kind of feel that it has outlives it's purpose I must admit
[09:25] <inetpro> for sure
[09:25] <MaNI> *outlived
[09:26] <inetpro> sadly WebKit is now a trademark of Apple, registered with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office
[09:27] <magespawn> they said it would remain open though
[09:28] <Sicelo> i thought it was always their trademark
[09:35] <inetpro> Sicelo: I prefer free/libre open source software 
[09:37] <Sicelo> of course! :)
[10:42] <inetpro> wb Kilos
[10:42] <Kilos> ty inetpro 
[10:52] <Sicelo> hi Kilos 
[10:58] <Kilos> hi Sicelo 
[11:05] <SEptic> kubuntu installed, xubuntu installed
[11:05] <Kilos> lol
[11:05] <SEptic> whats with Lubuntu? whats that favour all about?
[11:05] <Kilos> light ubuntu
[11:05] <SEptic> *flavour
[11:05] <Kilos> baqsic
[11:05] <Kilos> basic
[11:06] <SEptic> aah i see
[11:09] <Kilos> for slow machines
[11:27] <magespawn> uses the LXDE fro the desktop
[11:52] <theblazehen> inetpro: Nah, was testing something before automating it with config management. Needed physical hardware
[11:53] <theblazehen> And rsnapshot doesn't do memory
[11:53] <theblazehen> Although 21 GB used is quite a bit to snapshot..
[11:53] <theblazehen> 2 TB ram on this server...
[11:53] <Kilos> wow
[11:55] <SEptic> 0_o
[12:11] <inetpro> theblazehen: ah, I understand :-)
[12:15] <inetpro> snapshot and roll back on physical hardware would be cool
[12:15] <inetpro> but you would need lots and lots of disk space for that
[12:22] <inetpro> theblazehen: http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/226144/creating-a-snapshot-of-a-linux-system
[14:27] <magespawn>  inetpro have you used Cisco routers?
[14:27] <inetpro> magespawn: what's wrong?
[14:28] <magespawn> nothing i just have a cisco 800 adsl router an was looking for some pointers of where to start
[14:28] <Sicelo> with?
[14:28] <inetpro> for the real stuff you can ask Symmetria anything about networking
[14:29] <magespawn> how to configure and set it up, test it as well since i do not know if it works 100%
[14:29] <magespawn> can only access via the console at the moment
[14:29] <inetpro> I'm sure many others here also know much more than I know
[14:35] <Sicelo> that's for home use? O.o
[14:42] <magespawn>  not for any use, i picked up when it was replaced, so i thought it might be an idea to learn
[14:43] <magespawn> i think it is the bottom of the enterprise routers
[14:44] <Sicelo> there's lots of info online .. even a full config 'script'
[14:45] <Sicelo> of course, i'm no cisco guy myself ... 
[14:59] <theblazehen> ty inetpro. I know about fs level, can also use lvm, but that doesn't really preserve state of ram etc.
[14:59] <Kilos> um
[14:59] <Kilos> where is symmetria
[14:59] <Kilos> Maaz seen symmetria
[14:59] <Maaz> Kilos: symmetria was last seen 17 hours, 26 minutes and 53 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2016-07-17 14:32:57 PDT], and has been online on freenode since 2016-07-17 13:50:58 PDT
[15:15] <Kilos> hmm...
[15:15] <Kilos> Sicelo so can you run kde
[15:16] <Sicelo> yes .. it works fine too :)
[15:16] <Kilos> yay
[15:16] <Sicelo> i'm going to keep it for the lappie .. 
[15:16] <Kilos> get used to it and you will not enjoy others anymore
[15:16] <Sicelo> had a bit of a fight to find two of my most used WM features: 1. focus-follows-mouse, and 2. multiple workspaces
[15:17] <Sicelo> but i eventually got both .. so i'm fine
[15:17] <Kilos> kde has lots of configuring
[15:17] <Kilos> you can modify just about everything
[15:18] <pavlushka> Is there any way to make the wifi device work, http://paste.ubuntu.com/19904862/ ?
[15:18] <Sicelo> for my use case, i can conclude that Gnome=KDE .. but yes, i know very well that this is a holy war, like vi vs. emacs :p
[15:18] <Sicelo> pavlushka: Broadcom, eish
[15:19] <pavlushka> yep, eish.
[15:19] <Sicelo> tried the b43 module?
[15:23] <Kilos> pavlushka what system are you using there
[15:24] <Sicelo> looks like there aren't really any known good working linux drivers for that (at least in debian, even sid)
[15:24] <pavlushka> Kilos: Sicelo  every thing is in the pastebin, I need to run , sorry, be back withing 2 hours, :)
[15:24] <Kilos> ok
[15:24] <Sicelo> seems you'll have to go with USB 
[15:25] <Kilos> to much stuff in the bin, reading so much hurts my head
[15:25] <Kilos> he can ask HP they normally linux friendly
[15:25] <pavlushka> and Sicelo , will check on b43.
[15:26] <Sicelo> Kilos: [14e4:4365] is 'BCM43142 802.11b/g/n' from 'Broadcom Corporation' that should suffice :)
[15:26] <Sicelo> pavlushka: won't work :( .. works for some revisions of that family .. not yours
[15:26] <Kilos> sjoe murphy visits there as well
[15:27] <Sicelo> Broadcom, grrr one of those terrible companies we have to deal with unfortunately
[15:28] <Sicelo> that 4365 seems only supported by that wl module which you already have loaded anyway .. so
[15:31] <Sicelo> which should work :-/
[15:32] <Sicelo> got wifi disabled via bios/fn key combo perhaps?
[15:36] <Kilos> hopefully he sees all this when he returns
[15:36] <Kilos> ty for helping Sicelo 
[15:36] <Kilos> pavlushka ^^
[15:36] <Sicelo> does kde have a gnucash replacement?
[15:36] <Sicelo> i haven't used gnucash itself in a long time .. but something made me remember it today
[15:40] <Kilos> lol
[15:40] <Kilos> gogle alternative for kde
[15:41] <Kilos> or wait for one of the experts to tell you
[15:41] <Sicelo> i'm suddenly thinking gnucash should be relatively DE independent
[15:41] <Kilos> i dont fiddle with fancy stuff
[15:41] <Kilos> kde can run gnome apps
[15:42] <Sicelo> Kilos: i read a bit of your story yesterday. impressed :)
[15:42] <Kilos> what story
[15:42] <Kilos> haha
[15:43] <Sicelo> yes, *that* one :p
[15:43] <Sicelo> how you got into linux, etc.
[15:43] <Kilos> my blog?
[15:44] <Sicelo> i got it from one of the ubuntu sites .. 
[15:44] <Kilos> oh my
[15:45] <Sicelo> you're famous ;)
[15:45] <Kilos> no man im a greeter bot
[15:45] <Kilos> famous peeps are targets
[15:46] <Kilos> i had forgotten about my blog
[15:46] <Kilos> half isnt even there anymore
[15:50] <Kilos> Sicelo gnucash is in the repos
[15:50] <Kilos> you can install it
[15:52] <paddatrapper> Sicelo: what's gnucash used for? 
[15:52]  * paddatrapper is too lazy for searching at the moment
[15:53] <Kilos> Gnucash provides accounting functions suitable for use by small businesses and
[15:53] <Kilos> individuals. It can track finances in multiple accounts, keeping running and
[15:53] <Kilos> reconciled balances. There is support for customer, vendor and employee
[15:53] <Kilos> processing.
[15:53] <Sicelo> yes :)
[15:53] <paddatrapper> Ah thanks Kilos
[15:54] <Kilos> thats from the write up in synaptic
[15:54] <paddatrapper> I was thinking bitcoin or something password related 
[15:54] <Kilos> lol
[15:54] <Sicelo> i've used it once in the past ... i suppose it should run just fine under kde .. not with the laptop right now
[15:54] <Sicelo> lol paddatrapper :p
[15:55] <paddatrapper> Is it GTK based then? 
[15:55]  * Sicelo has to check
[15:55] <Kilos> It has an X based graphical user interface, double entry, a
[15:55] <Kilos> hierarchy of accounts, expense accounts (categories), and can import Quicken
[15:55] <Kilos> QIF files and OFX files.
[15:56] <Kilos> thats all i have on it
[15:56] <Sicelo> yup .. gtk
[15:56] <paddatrapper> Pretty cool. Though I currently have no need for accounting software :) 
[15:57] <Kilos> haha one needs money before you worry about such things
[15:57] <Kilos> paddatrapper please dont forget ibid
[15:57] <Kilos> you forgot to discuss it with the weed?
[15:57] <MaNI> theres kmymoney
[15:57] <paddatrapper> Sicelo: it'll run fine then. Just look a little odd. There should be a GTK engine plugin to support your KDE theme out there somewhere 
[15:58] <paddatrapper> Kilos: I didn't end up seeing him. I'll poke him now now
[16:00] <MaNI> https://kmymoney.org/screenshots.php - should you want something more KDE native
[16:00] <Kilos> tell him im nagging
[16:01] <MaNI> I vaguely remember preferring it to GNUCash - but it depends on your exact needs I guess
[16:01] <Kilos> hi MaNI you use kde?
[16:01] <MaNI> devout KDE user yes
[16:01] <Kilos> yay
[16:02] <Kilos> we are growing
[16:02] <Kilos> used to just be fly and pro
[16:02] <paddatrapper> We are everywhere. Lol
[16:02] <MaNI> I've always been a KDE user though, since before ubuntu even existed, so thats not something new :p
[16:02] <Kilos> haha
[16:03] <Kilos> most of the clever peeps use it and i follow
[16:08] <MaNI> KDE is far from perfect but it annoys me a lot less than gnome, hehe, but it's really something thats different for each person I guess
[16:09] <Kilos> linux is growing too fast
[16:10] <magespawn> late all home time
[16:10] <Kilos> before one release is completely stable they are working on the next one
[16:10] <Kilos> go safe magespawn 
[16:11] <Kilos> Maaz seen septic
[16:11] <Maaz> Kilos: septic was last seen 4 hours, 15 minutes and 59 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2016-07-18 04:55:07 PDT], and has been offline on freenode since 2016-07-18 07:52:45 PDT
[16:11] <Kilos> looks like kde floored him
[16:19] <Kilos> oh ja inetpro other one was plustwo 
[16:25] <theblazehen> Hmm. Been thinking about laptop security. How about having a login manager that has a guest account, and when that logs in it copies a minimal userspace (with maybe just a web browser and file manager) into a ramdisk, then starts to wipe the hard drive? Do an ATA Secure Erase, the blkdiscard and then overwrite with /dev/zero?
[16:29] <Kilos> Sicelo you still here
[16:30] <Kilos> i go eat. wbb
[16:30] <Kilos> Maaz watch them
[16:30] <Maaz> oh Kilos I will watch them no problem, but you better be back soon!
[16:31] <Sicelo> Kilos: yes
[16:32] <pavlushka> Sicelo: so what can be done?
[16:36] <pavlushka> Sicelo: how can that be enabled on the firmware? I have not much idea on that.
[16:54] <Kilos> Sicelo here is my other one
[16:54] <Kilos> http://kilosubuntu.blogspot.co.za
[16:54] <Kilos> start at the bottom
[18:08] <Sicelo> pavlushka: start with the easy stuff - confirm it's enabled in BIOS, check if there's a switch to disable WiFi, or a key combination, usually FN+ one of the F keys
[18:09] <Sicelo> failing that .. have a look at 'man rfkill' .. might help
[18:09] <Sicelo> beyond that .. i have no idea
[18:10] <nsnzero> what wifi chipset ?
[18:10] <pavlushka> Sicelo: I have checked that and have checked this too, http://www.linuxwireless.org/en/users/Drivers/b43/, which says there's no linux driver for it.
[18:11] <Sicelo> yes, the b43 won't work for your card .. but wl should .. at least it claims support for it
[18:12] <Sicelo> sucks .. but you may be forced to go USB after all
[18:12] <Sicelo> or someone else will suggest something that works :)
[18:15] <Sicelo> nsnzero: broadcom BCM43142 802.11b/g/n .. pci id 14e4:4365
[18:16] <nsnzero> broadcom has  proprietary drivers -  if i am not mistaken 
[18:16] <Sicelo> yes, the wl :(
[18:17] <nsnzero> is it an internal 
[18:18] <nsnzero> is it an internal card ? laptop ?
[18:18] <paddatrapper> rfkill unblock all maybe? 
[18:19] <Sicelo> pavlushka: ^^
[18:19] <Sicelo> i guess internal though .. he said it's a Dell iirc, laptop
[18:20] <paddatrapper> pavlushka: if I recall correctly that's the same chip as me. Under Ubuntu/Kubuntu it had no issue installing the proprietary drivers required on install. Debian and arch required finding them in the various repos 
[18:21] <Sicelo> he gave us this paste - http://paste.ubuntu.com/19904862/
[18:21] <Sicelo> i see he never said dell ... lol
[18:21] <nsnzero> yip got to just run the driver manager to install proprietary driver  - type "driver" in the unbuntu menu to locate it 
[18:21] <superfly> If I remember correctly, paddatrapper had to install the broadcom-dkms package 
[18:21] <paddatrapper> I saw. I'm on mobile at the moment which is making going through that difficult 
[18:22] <paddatrapper> superfly: yup. That's the one. For some reason the dkms package worked, but the normal one did not
[18:23] <Sicelo> this is where i found the reference to wl, https://wiki.debian.org/wl .. and that's the proprietary driver afaict .. 
[18:24] <Sicelo> lol .. Ubuntu
[18:24] <Sicelo> Network controller [0280]: Broadcom Corporation BCM43142 802.11b/g/n [14e4:4365] (rev 01) Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company BCM43142 802.11b/g/n [103c:2230] Kernel modules: bcma, wl
[18:25] <Sicelo> thats's from his paste .. so it actually seems he doesn't have the module, even though it's listed there :)
[18:25] <Sicelo> pavlushka: < nsnzero> yip got to just run the driver manager to install proprietary driver  - type "driver" in the unbuntu menu to locate it
[18:26] <nsnzero> while we on the subject of drivers - i have a atheros wifi bluetooth combo PCI  card in this laptop - the bluetooth works now and then - any ideas 
[18:26] <Sicelo> heh, sounds hectic 
[18:26] <pavlushka> Sicelo: nsnzero superfly paddatrapper , is there a terminal way?
[18:27] <Sicelo> apt-cache search?
[18:27] <pavlushka> I prefer, and its not my laptop, so that would be easier.
[18:28] <nsnzero> if it shows no adapter - i just reboot and it works perfect  
[18:28] <Sicelo> e.g. apt-cache search broadcom dkms 
[18:28] <pavlushka> Sicelo: what keyword I will search, "apt search" is easier.
[18:28] <nsnzero> yes there is a method from cli 
[18:29] <Sicelo> oh wow .. debian doesn't seem to do apt search :)
[18:29] <Sicelo> or i'm missing a package :-/
[18:30] <Sicelo> or you meant aptitude?
[18:30] <Sicelo> ~$ apt-cache search broadcom dkms
[18:30] <Sicelo> broadcom-sta-dkms - dkms source for the Broadcom STA Wireless driver
[18:31] <Sicelo> ^^ at least that's its packaging in debian .. dunno about ubuntu .. try a similar search
[18:31] <nsnzero> firmware-b43-installer is what i found 
[18:31] <nsnzero> apt search broadcom ^^
[18:32] <Sicelo> nsnzero: please run `which apt` .. i'm curious about this search you guys do .. doesn't work on my system, heh
[18:33] <nsnzero> Sicelo:  /usr/bin/apt
[18:33] <Sicelo> maybe `dpkg -S $(which apt)` as well
[18:34] <nsnzero> pavlushka: run ' sudo ubuntu-drivers list ' and paste the output
[18:35] <nsnzero> Sicelo: apt: /usr/bin/apt
[18:36] <Sicelo> alright. thanks
[18:36] <nsnzero> maybe the repository will help  : 
[18:37] <nsnzero> irmware-b43-installer/xenial,xenial 1:019-2 all
[18:37] <nsnzero>   firmware installer for the b43 driver
[18:37] <Sicelo> ah .. it wasn't in wheezy .. but is there in jessie (that apt search)
[18:37] <Kilos> wb SEptic 
[18:37] <SEptic> howdy
[18:38] <pavlushka> Its not my machine, but on my machine sudo ubuntu-drivers list returned just  "intel-microcode"
[18:38] <nsnzero> pavlushka: sudo ubuntu-drivers autoinstall 
[18:40] <nsnzero> pavlushka: which version of ubuntu you troubleshooting ?
[18:40] <pavlushka> nsnzero: Its doing something, two packages is installing, though I have no complain for my pc but I will tell that person with the wifi problem, :)
[18:41] <pavlushka> nsnzero: Ubuntu 16.04, 64 bit.
[18:42] <Sicelo> looks like ubuntu provides proprietary stuff in a "restricted" repository? maybe that's repo isn't active on said machine and therefore the driver cannot be found? clearly the system 'knows' what driver it should load, but said driver isn't there
[18:43] <nsnzero> once i had a trouble with the wifi on mine - kubuntu 16.04 64 bit - it was the network manager - i assume the system is updated ?
[18:43] <SEptic> i get that intel-microcode popup in my wife's dell inspiron laptop
[18:44] <paddatrapper> Could be non-free repo? At least that is how Debian does it
[18:44] <nsnzero> yip intel micro code is in the non free 
[18:46] <Sicelo> yeah .. debian calls them non-free .. seems ubuntu calls them restricted
[18:47] <tumbleweed> ubuntu has two classes of non-free
[18:47] <Sicelo> anyway .. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx#Broadcom_STA_Wireless_driver_.28Proprietary.29 .. you need those STA drivers for that laptop .. how you get them isn't too clear to me :)
[18:48] <tumbleweed> restricted is mostly hardware-support, and it's supported as much as main is
[18:48] <Sicelo> either  broadcom-sta or bcmwl-kernel-source
[18:48] <tumbleweed> multiverse is the rest of non-free, with universe level support
[18:48] <Sicelo> hi tumbleweed 
[18:49] <tumbleweed> hi :)
[18:50] <Sicelo> seems there's instructions for installing STA here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx#Installing_STA_drivers .. if that doesn't help, i guess the lappie is going to the bin :-$
[18:51] <Kilos> ohi tumbleweed wb
[18:55] <SEptic> ... is possible to dualboot kubuntu & mint? must be
[18:55] <nsnzero> sudo apt install broadcom-sta-dkms
[18:57] <nsnzero> SEptic: yes they can dual boot 
[18:57] <paddatrapper> tumbleweed: kil
[18:57] <pavlushka> Sicelo: "sudo apt install dkms broadcom-sta-dkms"
[18:57] <Sicelo> that works for you pavlushka? :)
[18:57] <paddatrapper> tumbleweed: Kilos has been bugging me. I put a PR in for ibid adding duckduckgo search support
[19:00] <nsnzero> take care guys i am off 
[19:00] <paddatrapper> Cheers nsnzero
[19:01] <pavlushka> Sicelo: I figured that but the problem is on someone else's PC, So lets see the result
[19:02] <Sicelo> so you'll work on it tomorrow?
[19:02] <pavlushka> I am online with him now, will take some time to see the result
[19:03] <Sicelo> ah :)
[19:03] <Sicelo> he's going wired internet on the laptop at least?
[19:03] <paddatrapper> I've found tethered phone to be pretty good toi
[19:04] <paddatrapper> s/toi/too
[19:05] <Sicelo> if you have good mobile deal though, otherwise it can be very painful
[19:06] <paddatrapper> Sicelo: or use wifi like that. That's how I did Debconf for a couple days 
[19:07] <Sicelo> just found a 'bug' in kde .. laptop suspended while charging, so charging icon was showing ... re-using it long after charger disconnected, and the charging icon still showing, but clicking the details correctly shows discharging
[19:09] <paddatrapper> Lol. I must say I have never run into that particular bug before 
[19:10] <Sicelo> i guess  plugging in charger for a moment will 'fix' it 
[19:11] <paddatrapper> Or restart x if you really want to
[19:17] <Sicelo> i notice kde tries to conserve screen real estate .. where gnome prefers more whitespace ... can't say which i prefer .. sometimes the kde way looks a bit cluttered :-/
[19:17] <Sicelo> but it does result in less scrolling :)
[19:18] <paddatrapper> I like the flat look of KDE plasma. And efficient use of space :) 
[19:19] <Sicelo> i was just now in Akregator .. it's a little too cluttered imo than liferea (its counterpart under gnome) .. but i do appreciate it on the small laptop screen
[19:21] <paddatrapper> Haven't actually used Akregator much. Don't really follow rss feeds 
[19:21] <Sicelo> paddatrapper: like flat? use Microsoft's Metro :p
[19:22] <Sicelo> Windows 10
[19:22] <paddatrapper> Sicelo: lol. I like a working machine and besides have you tried installing python + qt on Windows? 
[19:22] <Sicelo> no
[19:23]  * paddatrapper twitches nervously
[19:23] <Sicelo> :)
[19:23] <paddatrapper> Be glad. It's painful :) 
[19:23] <Kilos> you chased the weed paddatrapper 
[19:23] <Kilos> naughty
[19:23] <paddatrapper> Kilos: Haha. Yup
[19:23] <Sicelo> Win 10 messed up my work computer .. now USB doesn't work properly .. i plug in my N900 phone, device manager 'sees' it, but it never appears on the system until a reboot :-/
[19:24] <Kilos> tell him no rest for the wicked
[19:24] <paddatrapper> Definitely not! 
[19:30] <tumbleweed> paddatrapper: aha. I don't read the inbox that my github mail goes to, very often
[19:31] <paddatrapper> tumbleweed: lol. No worries. It also fixes SQLAlchemy compatibility on newer versions 
[19:31] <Kilos> naughty
[19:32] <Kilos> helloooo tumbleweed 
[19:32] <Kilos> hee hee
[19:33] <tumbleweed> paddatrapper: if it really does that I'll be impressed
[19:33] <tumbleweed> sqlalchemy compatibility is hard
[19:33] <tumbleweed> we do some evil things with it
[19:34] <paddatrapper> Well it now runs fine on 14.04. I actually am curious to see if it's fine with Debian unstable 
[19:45] <SEptic> *sigh* ... somehow kubuntu went from a VM to being installed on my HP laptop
[19:45] <SEptic> :P
[19:45] <Kilos> hahahaha
[19:45] <Kilos> how did you manage that
[19:46] <SEptic> it was on purpose
[19:46] <SEptic> i like it
[19:46] <Kilos> well done
[19:47] <Sicelo> excellent SEptic. what did you have before?
[19:47] <SEptic> mint 17.3
[19:48] <SEptic> i miss the windows key + e for file explorer and windows key + d for desktop ... but tis but a flesh wound
[19:49] <Sicelo> should be able to bind that i guess
[19:49] <SEptic> much cleaner than mint, i laak alot
[19:50] <Kilos> you can set your own keys in kde
[19:50] <Kilos> look in settings
[19:50] <SEptic> ooooh sexy
[19:50] <Kilos> you can configure lots on kde
[19:50] <SEptic> whats your guys rated email client?
[19:50] <SEptic> evo, thunder, kmail?
[19:50] <Sicelo> mutt :)
[19:51] <Kilos> you can set compose keys and lots of other things i dont even understand
[19:51] <Kilos> thunderbird works ok
[19:51] <Sicelo> i guess on K.. you should go with Kmail?
[19:51] <Kilos> kmail sucks
[19:51] <Sicelo> oh, lol .. interesting
[19:51] <Sicelo> haven't touched it yet
[19:51] <Sicelo> what sucks for example?
[19:52] <SEptic> my company recently got nailed with ransomware ... so they moved the entire domain over to microshaft cloud
[19:52] <SEptic> in the process ... they lost 9 years of my emails
[19:52] <Kilos> i couldnt even get kmail to work at all
[19:52] <Kilos> ask inetpro what to use
[19:52] <Sicelo> SEptic: which ransomware?
[19:52] <SEptic> so i dumped windows and went linux
[19:52] <MaNI> kmail is a bit of a sad story
[19:53] <MaNI> it was for a long time the absolute best email client in existence, but for some reason in the kde4 transition it became super unreliable and bad
[19:53] <SEptic> it was a russian one, it got in on a port forward for some accounting software out of capetown
[19:53] <Sicelo> meh .. that's why i was saying yesterday that the DEs are just launchers for me .. i always thought kmail was THE mail client :-/
[19:53] <Sicelo> i'm happy with my  mutt then
[19:53] <SEptic> lol
[19:54] <MaNI> not sure if they've finally fixed it - I'm too scared to look again, but it was a huge issue
[19:54] <Sicelo> sucks SEptic 
[19:54] <MaNI> randomly losing emails and stuff
[19:54] <MaNI> went from best client to dodgy overnight
[19:54] <SEptic> eish
[19:54] <MaNI> best to just stick with thunderbird or evolution or something else I guess
[19:54] <Kilos> tbird works well for me
[19:54] <SEptic> i was using evolution and thunderbird, both did well
[19:54] <MaNI> unfortunately I draw the line at email loss
[19:54] <Kilos> even calenders and stuff
[19:55] <Sicelo> apparently some aren't happy with evolution too .. complaining about crashes, etc.
[19:55] <MaNI> I'm not overly happy with evolution, but I use it because it hasn't lost me any emails
[19:55] <Sicelo> i didn't use it too much myself tbh .. but once or twice it froze
[19:55] <MaNI> as much as I want to find a nicer client it's just too much hassle, heh
[19:55] <Kilos> inetpro tell him man
[19:55] <SEptic> aah cool
[19:56] <MaNI> would love to hear that kmail has been resotred to its former glory, as it was almost perfect before kde4
[19:56] <Kilos> maybe pro is sleeping
[19:57] <Kilos> yum late night coffee and buttermilk rusks
[19:57] <Sicelo> MaNI: talking about that .. it does sound like kde4 was a regression? during the day i wanted to import a client certificate on the laptop ... there doesn't seem to be a way in kde4, and bug reports always refer to 3.5 or some such version
[19:57] <SEptic> yum
[19:58] <MaNI> KDE4 was a huge step sideways - it made a lot of important changes, but at the same time it was super unstable and a lot of functionality that was in KDE3 vanished
[19:58] <MaNI> also it was released way too soon, so end users were exposed to a lot of unfinished software they never should have seen
[19:59] <MaNI> but since then a lot of progress has been made, the current KDE4 is IMO now in a position where it is better than what KDE3 offered, the first year or two were really bumpy though, and kmail was one of the worse parts
[19:59] <Sicelo> so while Gnome was fskcing up with Gnome3, KDE did the same with 4, lol
[19:59] <MaNI> something like that
[20:00] <MaNI> one of the mistakes was that they got way too excited by the whole 'semantic desktop' thing
[20:01] <Sicelo> what is 'semantic desktop'?
[20:03] <MaNI> basically the idea of attaching 'metadata' to all files/emails/other things so that you can do things like easily search for "all documents that I received from Lucy"
[20:03] <MaNI> or "All files I downloaded from the pirate bay" or things like that
[20:03] <SEptic> lol
[20:04] <MaNI> thats the utopian vision of it at least - in reality it seems to boil down to constantly indexing everything on your harddrive and making your computer so slow it is unusable, and losing all your emails
[20:04] <Sicelo> ah
[20:04] <inetpro> I've been using thunderbird for many years and am happy to continue using it until someone can find me a better replacement
[20:05] <Sicelo> what daemon does KDE use for that? Gnome uses Tracker ....... which has had lots of complaints agains
[20:05] <MaNI> it was akonadi/nepomuk
[20:05] <MaNI> now it's balloo? or something - I lose track
[20:05] <Sicelo> ah .. i renember the name akonadi
[20:08] <inetpro> ​Toyota throws weight behind Linux patent protection group http://www.zdnet.com/article/toyota-throws-weight-behind-linux-patent-protection-group/
[20:14] <SEptic> interesting
[20:33] <Kilos> inetpro gaan slaap
[20:33] <inetpro> ja baas
[20:35] <Kilos> haha
[20:35] <Kilos> im busy making a war blog
[20:38] <inetpro> ai tog! 
[20:38] <Kilos> lol
[20:39] <Kilos> time to rock some boats
[20:39] <Kilos> peeps will learn, there is only one way
[20:39] <Kilos> oh two
[20:40] <Kilos> my way or the highway
[20:40] <Kilos> when i get into trouble ill call you
[20:40] <SEptic> lol
[20:40] <Kilos> then you cant tell them im brain damaged
[20:41] <Kilos> can tell them
[20:42] <Kilos> SEptic if you google things to do after installing kubuntu 16.04 there should be some good tips
[20:42] <SEptic> awesome
[20:43] <SEptic> super kiff so far
[20:43] <SEptic> playing with conky too
[20:43] <Kilos> there was a great guide for 20 things to do with 14.04
[20:45] <SEptic> sooooo many tweaks and settings available
[20:46] <SEptic> soooooo awesome
[20:46] <Kilos> kde rocks
[20:46] <Kilos> see inetpro another one
[20:50] <Sicelo> what's super kiff?
[20:50] <SEptic> kubuntu
[20:50] <Sicelo> ah
[20:50] <Kilos> very wonderful
[20:51] <Sicelo> conky is DE agnostic though .. works just as well with any other DE
[20:51] <SEptic> yea i see i'll have to tweak it
[20:51] <SEptic> up for the challenge
[20:52] <SEptic> k im off to bed and more kubuntu
[20:52] <SEptic> moro boys
[20:53] <Kilos> night SEptic 
[20:53] <Kilos> sleep tight
[20:54] <Kilos> oh my fly arrived
[20:54] <Kilos> all quietly
[20:54] <Kilos> all good superfly ?
[20:54] <superfly> I'm fine.
[20:58] <Sicelo> hi superfly 
[20:58] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[20:58] <Kilos> see you tomorrow
[21:07] <superfly> hi Sicelo
[21:08] <superfly> Sicelo: the "c" in your name, you say that like the Xhosa and Zulu say their "c"s?
[21:12] <Sicelo> exactly :)
[21:12] <Sicelo> soft click
[21:12] <Sicelo> not the harder ones of Q and X
[21:13] <Sicelo> my language (siswati) only has the soft click .. when we say Zulu or Xhosa words, we simply soft-click everything
[21:22] <pavlushka> thanks and Good Night ZA :)
[21:23] <Sicelo> nighty
[21:23] <Sicelo> how did it go with your friend?