[05:30] mornings [05:50] Morning everyone [06:05] https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/07/15/notice-of-security-breach-on-ubuntu-forums/ [06:10] mornings [06:12] o/ [06:12] o/ [06:12] morning everyone [06:30] morning [06:30] hi SEptic inetpro and others [06:30] hi Cryterion [06:30] Morning [06:30] seen superfly [06:31] Maaz seen superfly [06:31] Kilos: superfly was last seen 11 hours, 31 minutes and 29 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2016-07-17 11:59:37 PDT], and has been offline on freenode since 2016-07-17 23:03:03 PDT [06:34] wb superfly [06:34] morning === urbanslug is now known as zipper [07:59] ... busy installing kubuntu [08:17] good evening [08:20] wbb [08:28] good morning [08:28] good morning [08:28] :) [08:29] want to hear about my KDE experience? [08:31] i definitely find that for me, both KDE & Gnome are fine .. they are all just launchers .. moving to KDE last night i sturggled to find two WM feature that i generally 'depend' on : 1. focus-follows-mouse, and 2. multiple workspaces. [08:33] have not used KDE that much, last time was about 5 years ago [08:33] eventually found the workspace config (gnome enables them by default). focus-follows-mouse was harder to get, but after some online searching, got it too .. i'll stick with KDE on the old lappy, but yes, either KDE or Gnome wfm .. [08:34] now got to find how to make konqueror a proper web browser, instaed of being half-browser & half-file manager [08:37] what do you use magespawn? [08:38] kali linux and debian, both gnome based [08:41] awesome. debian for me too [08:42] thei version of kali is debian based, so essentially debian' [08:48] this [08:50] yes, kli is maintained by Raphael Hertzog .. a DD ;) [08:54] Sicelo: what's wrong with Dolphin? [08:55] I don't even have konqueror installed [08:56] dolphin is the default file manager on KDE these days [08:56] * inetpro uses mainly Firefox for web browsing [08:57] why not krusader :p === MaN1 is now known as MaNI [09:01] Maaz: is www.krusader.org down? [09:01] inetpro: Yes, http://www.krusader.org/ is down (Server is not responding) [09:02] MaNI: convince kde guys to make it the default [09:02] * theblazehen wishes I could snapshot and roll back physical hardware [09:03] * theblazehen starts thinking about zfs snapshots and CRIU [09:03] theblazehen: what broke? [09:04] morning peoplez :) [09:04] inetpro: dolphin is perfectly fine. i hate that konqueror is a dolphin-wannabe [09:05] theblazehen: use rsnapshot [09:05] Sicelo: no, no... konqueror used to be awesome [09:05] konqueror existed long before dolphin though [09:05] so you can't really say its a 'dolphin-wannabe' [09:05] for me it is :) [09:06] dolphin only came later [09:06] basically when kde4 came out, they tried to make konqueror a web browser only and split the file managing stuff out into dolphin [09:06] file-manager wannabe then :) [09:06] but a lot of people missed various konqueror functionality, so they back peddled a bit - so konqueror continues to do both as well [09:06] KISS principle ... [09:07] konqueror became too much of everything for everyone and became very difficult to maintain [09:07] and dolphin started off as a very basic file manager because of the difficulties in maintaining konqueror [09:08] anyway, KDE works. Gnome works. good enough for me :) [09:09] i'll keep KDE on the lappy, and Gnome on my PC [09:10] at first look, dolphin is a very simple file manager, but it has many talents these days and is very stable now as well [09:11] I'd not actually recommend konqueror as a browser at this point though, I must say [09:11] https://userbase.kde.org/Dolphin [09:11] if you are fine with dolphin you should probably just use dolphin and (opera or firefox or chromium) and forget about konqueror [09:12] oh. what's the problem with konqueror in connection with browsing? [09:14] i do have FF though .. but just curious [09:14] not so much a problem with the software as a case of, nobody tests their sites for it, so you are more likely to run into broken web pages [09:14] Sicelo: that ^^ [09:15] ah [09:22] konqueror uses KHTML as its layout engine... but I am not sure whether this is still 100% true [09:22] WebKit's HTML and JavaScript code was originally a fork of the KHTML and KJS libraries from KDE [09:23] you can now pick I think between KHTML and webkit backend [09:23] webkit has now been further developed by individuals from KDE, Apple, Google, Nokia, Bitstream, BlackBerry, Igalia, and others. OS X, Windows, Linux, and some other Unix-like operating systems are supported by the project [09:23] chromium, opera etc. now use blink, blink is a fork of webkit, which was a fork of khtml [09:23] only safari (I think) still uses webkit [09:24] fact is, konqueror was a good base for what we see on today's web browsers [09:24] I kind of feel that it has outlives it's purpose I must admit [09:25] for sure [09:25] *outlived [09:26] sadly WebKit is now a trademark of Apple, registered with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office [09:27] they said it would remain open though [09:28] i thought it was always their trademark [09:35] Sicelo: I prefer free/libre open source software [09:37] of course! :) [10:42] wb Kilos [10:42] ty inetpro [10:52] hi Kilos [10:58] hi Sicelo [11:05] kubuntu installed, xubuntu installed [11:05] lol [11:05] whats with Lubuntu? whats that favour all about? [11:05] light ubuntu [11:05] *flavour [11:05] baqsic [11:05] basic [11:06] aah i see [11:09] for slow machines [11:27] uses the LXDE fro the desktop [11:52] inetpro: Nah, was testing something before automating it with config management. Needed physical hardware [11:53] And rsnapshot doesn't do memory [11:53] Although 21 GB used is quite a bit to snapshot.. [11:53] 2 TB ram on this server... [11:53] wow [11:55] 0_o [12:11] theblazehen: ah, I understand :-) [12:15] snapshot and roll back on physical hardware would be cool [12:15] but you would need lots and lots of disk space for that [12:22] theblazehen: http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/226144/creating-a-snapshot-of-a-linux-system [14:27] inetpro have you used Cisco routers? [14:27] magespawn: what's wrong? [14:28] nothing i just have a cisco 800 adsl router an was looking for some pointers of where to start [14:28] with? [14:28] for the real stuff you can ask Symmetria anything about networking [14:29] how to configure and set it up, test it as well since i do not know if it works 100% [14:29] can only access via the console at the moment [14:29] I'm sure many others here also know much more than I know [14:35] that's for home use? O.o [14:42] not for any use, i picked up when it was replaced, so i thought it might be an idea to learn [14:43] i think it is the bottom of the enterprise routers [14:44] there's lots of info online .. even a full config 'script' [14:45] of course, i'm no cisco guy myself ... [14:59] ty inetpro. I know about fs level, can also use lvm, but that doesn't really preserve state of ram etc. [14:59] um [14:59] where is symmetria [14:59] Maaz seen symmetria [14:59] Kilos: symmetria was last seen 17 hours, 26 minutes and 53 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2016-07-17 14:32:57 PDT], and has been online on freenode since 2016-07-17 13:50:58 PDT [15:15] hmm... [15:15] Sicelo so can you run kde [15:16] yes .. it works fine too :) [15:16] yay [15:16] i'm going to keep it for the lappie .. [15:16] get used to it and you will not enjoy others anymore [15:16] had a bit of a fight to find two of my most used WM features: 1. focus-follows-mouse, and 2. multiple workspaces [15:17] but i eventually got both .. so i'm fine [15:17] kde has lots of configuring [15:17] you can modify just about everything [15:18] Is there any way to make the wifi device work, http://paste.ubuntu.com/19904862/ ? [15:18] for my use case, i can conclude that Gnome=KDE .. but yes, i know very well that this is a holy war, like vi vs. emacs :p [15:18] pavlushka: Broadcom, eish [15:19] yep, eish. [15:19] tried the b43 module? [15:23] pavlushka what system are you using there [15:24] looks like there aren't really any known good working linux drivers for that (at least in debian, even sid) [15:24] Kilos: Sicelo every thing is in the pastebin, I need to run , sorry, be back withing 2 hours, :) [15:24] ok [15:24] seems you'll have to go with USB [15:25] to much stuff in the bin, reading so much hurts my head [15:25] he can ask HP they normally linux friendly [15:25] and Sicelo , will check on b43. [15:26] Kilos: [14e4:4365] is 'BCM43142 802.11b/g/n' from 'Broadcom Corporation' that should suffice :) [15:26] pavlushka: won't work :( .. works for some revisions of that family .. not yours [15:26] sjoe murphy visits there as well [15:27] Broadcom, grrr one of those terrible companies we have to deal with unfortunately [15:28] that 4365 seems only supported by that wl module which you already have loaded anyway .. so [15:31] which should work :-/ [15:32] got wifi disabled via bios/fn key combo perhaps? [15:36] hopefully he sees all this when he returns [15:36] ty for helping Sicelo [15:36] pavlushka ^^ [15:36] does kde have a gnucash replacement? [15:36] i haven't used gnucash itself in a long time .. but something made me remember it today [15:40] lol [15:40] gogle alternative for kde [15:41] or wait for one of the experts to tell you [15:41] i'm suddenly thinking gnucash should be relatively DE independent [15:41] i dont fiddle with fancy stuff [15:41] kde can run gnome apps [15:42] Kilos: i read a bit of your story yesterday. impressed :) [15:42] what story [15:42] haha [15:43] yes, *that* one :p [15:43] how you got into linux, etc. [15:43] my blog? [15:44] i got it from one of the ubuntu sites .. [15:44] oh my [15:45] you're famous ;) [15:45] no man im a greeter bot [15:45] famous peeps are targets [15:46] i had forgotten about my blog [15:46] half isnt even there anymore [15:50] Sicelo gnucash is in the repos [15:50] you can install it [15:52] Sicelo: what's gnucash used for? [15:52] * paddatrapper is too lazy for searching at the moment [15:53] Gnucash provides accounting functions suitable for use by small businesses and [15:53] individuals. It can track finances in multiple accounts, keeping running and [15:53] reconciled balances. There is support for customer, vendor and employee [15:53] processing. [15:53] yes :) [15:53] Ah thanks Kilos [15:54] thats from the write up in synaptic [15:54] I was thinking bitcoin or something password related [15:54] lol [15:54] i've used it once in the past ... i suppose it should run just fine under kde .. not with the laptop right now [15:54] lol paddatrapper :p [15:55] Is it GTK based then? [15:55] * Sicelo has to check [15:55] It has an X based graphical user interface, double entry, a [15:55] hierarchy of accounts, expense accounts (categories), and can import Quicken [15:55] QIF files and OFX files. [15:56] thats all i have on it [15:56] yup .. gtk [15:56] Pretty cool. Though I currently have no need for accounting software :) [15:57] haha one needs money before you worry about such things [15:57] paddatrapper please dont forget ibid [15:57] you forgot to discuss it with the weed? [15:57] theres kmymoney [15:57] Sicelo: it'll run fine then. Just look a little odd. There should be a GTK engine plugin to support your KDE theme out there somewhere [15:58] Kilos: I didn't end up seeing him. I'll poke him now now [16:00] https://kmymoney.org/screenshots.php - should you want something more KDE native [16:00] tell him im nagging [16:01] I vaguely remember preferring it to GNUCash - but it depends on your exact needs I guess [16:01] hi MaNI you use kde? [16:01] devout KDE user yes [16:01] yay [16:02] we are growing [16:02] used to just be fly and pro [16:02] We are everywhere. Lol [16:02] I've always been a KDE user though, since before ubuntu even existed, so thats not something new :p [16:02] haha [16:03] most of the clever peeps use it and i follow [16:08] KDE is far from perfect but it annoys me a lot less than gnome, hehe, but it's really something thats different for each person I guess [16:09] linux is growing too fast [16:10] late all home time [16:10] before one release is completely stable they are working on the next one [16:10] go safe magespawn [16:11] Maaz seen septic [16:11] Kilos: septic was last seen 4 hours, 15 minutes and 59 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2016-07-18 04:55:07 PDT], and has been offline on freenode since 2016-07-18 07:52:45 PDT [16:11] looks like kde floored him [16:19] oh ja inetpro other one was plustwo [16:25] Hmm. Been thinking about laptop security. How about having a login manager that has a guest account, and when that logs in it copies a minimal userspace (with maybe just a web browser and file manager) into a ramdisk, then starts to wipe the hard drive? Do an ATA Secure Erase, the blkdiscard and then overwrite with /dev/zero? [16:29] Sicelo you still here [16:30] i go eat. wbb [16:30] Maaz watch them [16:30] oh Kilos I will watch them no problem, but you better be back soon! [16:31] Kilos: yes [16:32] Sicelo: so what can be done? [16:36] Sicelo: how can that be enabled on the firmware? I have not much idea on that. [16:54] Sicelo here is my other one [16:54] http://kilosubuntu.blogspot.co.za [16:54] start at the bottom [18:08] pavlushka: start with the easy stuff - confirm it's enabled in BIOS, check if there's a switch to disable WiFi, or a key combination, usually FN+ one of the F keys [18:09] failing that .. have a look at 'man rfkill' .. might help [18:09] beyond that .. i have no idea [18:10] what wifi chipset ? [18:10] Sicelo: I have checked that and have checked this too, http://www.linuxwireless.org/en/users/Drivers/b43/, which says there's no linux driver for it. [18:11] yes, the b43 won't work for your card .. but wl should .. at least it claims support for it [18:12] sucks .. but you may be forced to go USB after all [18:12] or someone else will suggest something that works :) [18:15] nsnzero: broadcom BCM43142 802.11b/g/n .. pci id 14e4:4365 [18:16] broadcom has proprietary drivers - if i am not mistaken [18:16] yes, the wl :( [18:17] is it an internal [18:18] is it an internal card ? laptop ? [18:18] rfkill unblock all maybe? [18:19] pavlushka: ^^ [18:19] i guess internal though .. he said it's a Dell iirc, laptop [18:20] pavlushka: if I recall correctly that's the same chip as me. Under Ubuntu/Kubuntu it had no issue installing the proprietary drivers required on install. Debian and arch required finding them in the various repos [18:21] he gave us this paste - http://paste.ubuntu.com/19904862/ [18:21] i see he never said dell ... lol [18:21] yip got to just run the driver manager to install proprietary driver - type "driver" in the unbuntu menu to locate it [18:21] If I remember correctly, paddatrapper had to install the broadcom-dkms package [18:21] I saw. I'm on mobile at the moment which is making going through that difficult [18:22] superfly: yup. That's the one. For some reason the dkms package worked, but the normal one did not [18:23] this is where i found the reference to wl, https://wiki.debian.org/wl .. and that's the proprietary driver afaict .. [18:24] lol .. Ubuntu [18:24] Network controller [0280]: Broadcom Corporation BCM43142 802.11b/g/n [14e4:4365] (rev 01) Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company BCM43142 802.11b/g/n [103c:2230] Kernel modules: bcma, wl [18:25] thats's from his paste .. so it actually seems he doesn't have the module, even though it's listed there :) [18:25] pavlushka: < nsnzero> yip got to just run the driver manager to install proprietary driver - type "driver" in the unbuntu menu to locate it [18:26] while we on the subject of drivers - i have a atheros wifi bluetooth combo PCI card in this laptop - the bluetooth works now and then - any ideas [18:26] heh, sounds hectic [18:26] Sicelo: nsnzero superfly paddatrapper , is there a terminal way? [18:27] apt-cache search? [18:27] I prefer, and its not my laptop, so that would be easier. [18:28] if it shows no adapter - i just reboot and it works perfect [18:28] e.g. apt-cache search broadcom dkms [18:28] Sicelo: what keyword I will search, "apt search" is easier. [18:28] yes there is a method from cli [18:29] oh wow .. debian doesn't seem to do apt search :) [18:29] or i'm missing a package :-/ [18:30] or you meant aptitude? [18:30] ~$ apt-cache search broadcom dkms [18:30] broadcom-sta-dkms - dkms source for the Broadcom STA Wireless driver [18:31] ^^ at least that's its packaging in debian .. dunno about ubuntu .. try a similar search [18:31] firmware-b43-installer is what i found [18:31] apt search broadcom ^^ [18:32] nsnzero: please run `which apt` .. i'm curious about this search you guys do .. doesn't work on my system, heh [18:33] Sicelo: /usr/bin/apt [18:33] maybe `dpkg -S $(which apt)` as well [18:34] pavlushka: run ' sudo ubuntu-drivers list ' and paste the output [18:35] Sicelo: apt: /usr/bin/apt [18:36] alright. thanks [18:36] maybe the repository will help : [18:37] irmware-b43-installer/xenial,xenial 1:019-2 all [18:37] firmware installer for the b43 driver [18:37] ah .. it wasn't in wheezy .. but is there in jessie (that apt search) [18:37] wb SEptic [18:37] howdy [18:38] Its not my machine, but on my machine sudo ubuntu-drivers list returned just "intel-microcode" [18:38] pavlushka: sudo ubuntu-drivers autoinstall [18:40] pavlushka: which version of ubuntu you troubleshooting ? [18:40] nsnzero: Its doing something, two packages is installing, though I have no complain for my pc but I will tell that person with the wifi problem, :) [18:41] nsnzero: Ubuntu 16.04, 64 bit. [18:42] looks like ubuntu provides proprietary stuff in a "restricted" repository? maybe that's repo isn't active on said machine and therefore the driver cannot be found? clearly the system 'knows' what driver it should load, but said driver isn't there [18:43] once i had a trouble with the wifi on mine - kubuntu 16.04 64 bit - it was the network manager - i assume the system is updated ? [18:43] i get that intel-microcode popup in my wife's dell inspiron laptop [18:44] Could be non-free repo? At least that is how Debian does it [18:44] yip intel micro code is in the non free [18:46] yeah .. debian calls them non-free .. seems ubuntu calls them restricted [18:47] ubuntu has two classes of non-free [18:47] anyway .. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx#Broadcom_STA_Wireless_driver_.28Proprietary.29 .. you need those STA drivers for that laptop .. how you get them isn't too clear to me :) [18:48] restricted is mostly hardware-support, and it's supported as much as main is [18:48] either broadcom-sta or bcmwl-kernel-source [18:48] multiverse is the rest of non-free, with universe level support [18:48] hi tumbleweed [18:49] hi :) [18:50] seems there's instructions for installing STA here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx#Installing_STA_drivers .. if that doesn't help, i guess the lappie is going to the bin :-$ [18:51] ohi tumbleweed wb [18:55] ... is possible to dualboot kubuntu & mint? must be [18:55] sudo apt install broadcom-sta-dkms [18:57] SEptic: yes they can dual boot [18:57] tumbleweed: kil [18:57] Sicelo: "sudo apt install dkms broadcom-sta-dkms" [18:57] that works for you pavlushka? :) [18:57] tumbleweed: Kilos has been bugging me. I put a PR in for ibid adding duckduckgo search support [19:00] take care guys i am off [19:00] Cheers nsnzero [19:01] Sicelo: I figured that but the problem is on someone else's PC, So lets see the result [19:02] so you'll work on it tomorrow? [19:02] I am online with him now, will take some time to see the result [19:03] ah :) [19:03] he's going wired internet on the laptop at least? [19:03] I've found tethered phone to be pretty good toi [19:04] s/toi/too [19:05] if you have good mobile deal though, otherwise it can be very painful [19:06] Sicelo: or use wifi like that. That's how I did Debconf for a couple days [19:07] just found a 'bug' in kde .. laptop suspended while charging, so charging icon was showing ... re-using it long after charger disconnected, and the charging icon still showing, but clicking the details correctly shows discharging [19:09] Lol. I must say I have never run into that particular bug before [19:10] i guess plugging in charger for a moment will 'fix' it [19:11] Or restart x if you really want to [19:17] i notice kde tries to conserve screen real estate .. where gnome prefers more whitespace ... can't say which i prefer .. sometimes the kde way looks a bit cluttered :-/ [19:17] but it does result in less scrolling :) [19:18] I like the flat look of KDE plasma. And efficient use of space :) [19:19] i was just now in Akregator .. it's a little too cluttered imo than liferea (its counterpart under gnome) .. but i do appreciate it on the small laptop screen [19:21] Haven't actually used Akregator much. Don't really follow rss feeds [19:21] paddatrapper: like flat? use Microsoft's Metro :p [19:22] Windows 10 [19:22] Sicelo: lol. I like a working machine and besides have you tried installing python + qt on Windows? [19:22] no [19:23] * paddatrapper twitches nervously [19:23] :) [19:23] Be glad. It's painful :) [19:23] you chased the weed paddatrapper [19:23] naughty [19:23] Kilos: Haha. Yup [19:23] Win 10 messed up my work computer .. now USB doesn't work properly .. i plug in my N900 phone, device manager 'sees' it, but it never appears on the system until a reboot :-/ [19:24] tell him no rest for the wicked [19:24] Definitely not! [19:30] paddatrapper: aha. I don't read the inbox that my github mail goes to, very often [19:31] tumbleweed: lol. No worries. It also fixes SQLAlchemy compatibility on newer versions [19:31] naughty [19:32] helloooo tumbleweed [19:32] hee hee [19:33] paddatrapper: if it really does that I'll be impressed [19:33] sqlalchemy compatibility is hard [19:33] we do some evil things with it [19:34] Well it now runs fine on 14.04. I actually am curious to see if it's fine with Debian unstable [19:45] *sigh* ... somehow kubuntu went from a VM to being installed on my HP laptop [19:45] :P [19:45] hahahaha [19:45] how did you manage that [19:46] it was on purpose [19:46] i like it [19:46] well done [19:47] excellent SEptic. what did you have before? [19:47] mint 17.3 [19:48] i miss the windows key + e for file explorer and windows key + d for desktop ... but tis but a flesh wound [19:49] should be able to bind that i guess [19:49] much cleaner than mint, i laak alot [19:50] you can set your own keys in kde [19:50] look in settings [19:50] ooooh sexy [19:50] you can configure lots on kde [19:50] whats your guys rated email client? [19:50] evo, thunder, kmail? [19:50] mutt :) [19:51] you can set compose keys and lots of other things i dont even understand [19:51] thunderbird works ok [19:51] i guess on K.. you should go with Kmail? [19:51] kmail sucks [19:51] oh, lol .. interesting [19:51] haven't touched it yet [19:51] what sucks for example? [19:52] my company recently got nailed with ransomware ... so they moved the entire domain over to microshaft cloud [19:52] in the process ... they lost 9 years of my emails [19:52] i couldnt even get kmail to work at all [19:52] ask inetpro what to use [19:52] SEptic: which ransomware? [19:52] so i dumped windows and went linux [19:52] kmail is a bit of a sad story [19:53] it was for a long time the absolute best email client in existence, but for some reason in the kde4 transition it became super unreliable and bad [19:53] it was a russian one, it got in on a port forward for some accounting software out of capetown [19:53] meh .. that's why i was saying yesterday that the DEs are just launchers for me .. i always thought kmail was THE mail client :-/ [19:53] i'm happy with my mutt then [19:53] lol [19:54] not sure if they've finally fixed it - I'm too scared to look again, but it was a huge issue [19:54]