[00:16] YES! the libfm fix made it in! [00:16] yay [00:16] * tsimonq2 smoke tests [00:19] wxl: think I should poke /win 20 [00:19] whopps [00:19] ahhhhhhhh [00:19] wxl: think I should poke slangasek about getting an experimental LXQt image? [00:20] tsimonq2: not until we have some sense as to what the additional applications would be like [00:20] alright wxl [00:20] that's what i think, at least [00:21] wxl: well we already have a metapackage, no? [00:21] wxl: I mean, would it hurt? :) [00:22] potentially [00:22] how so? [00:22] i'm not sure canonical has the resources to do something "just because" [00:23] and i'm not sure it would be really useful to the end user since it would be incomplete [00:23] oh I see [00:23] if they wanted something incomplete, they could also just build their own system with the metapackage [00:23] yeah [00:24] i love the idea but the fact of the matter is we just need to wait [00:24] I see [06:29] tsimonq2, o/ [06:29] One of the Ubuntu MATE servers (the one running my ZNC bouncer) failed overnight. [06:29] I've lost some IRC history. [06:29] So, if you messaged me. I missed it. [06:46] I didn't [07:03] tsimonq2, o/ [07:03] Looks like Lubuntu testing is going well. [07:03] I'm doing some Ubuntu MATE testing now. [07:03] Looks good enough to me :-) [07:12] flexiondotorg: Lubuntu is doing one more respin [07:12] tsimonq2, Because? [07:13] flexiondotorg: light-locker-settings is completely broken, a fix is landing very soon [07:13] Thanks. Not a thing that I need to worry about :-) [08:51] tsimonq2, Any chance someone in Lubuntu can do a quick install of Ubuntu MATE 16.04.1 on PowerPC? [08:51] flexiondotorg: I wish I could help you [08:52] unfortunately I don't know who has a PowerPC machine [08:52] OK [18:46] wxl: we had one last respin this morning [18:46] wxl: but the testing is almost done [18:49] o/ sudodus [18:49] o/ [18:49] sudodus! :) [18:49] sudodus: thanks for helping test 16.04.1 a lot, even after today's respin. I appreciate it. :) [18:50] You are welcome :-) [18:51] sudodus: this morning's respin was due to a fix that made light-locker-settings go from completely unusable to working, all fine now [18:51] I see. [18:52] tsimonq2, what happens with mini.iso? [18:53] But there are still problems with Intel graphics. The cursor is lost after locking. Fix: ctrl+alt+F1, ctrl+alt+F7 [18:53] sudodus: the respin before that (which I also requested) has the libfm fix [18:53] yes :( [18:53] redwolf: related to sudodus' thread? [18:54] I tested the xenial 32-bit mini.iso today, and it works, both in my Toshiba and in VirtualBox. [18:54] no, mailing lists [18:54] it seems failing in vbox [18:54] but I tested it on Boxes and it works [18:54] (kvm) [18:54] There was a report about that, but it works for me. [18:55] yes, same here [18:55] odd [18:55] I hope the one who reported did a checksum test [18:55] .__. [18:55] XD [18:55] There is a dialogue at the Ubuntu Forums, and the guy seems to have problems with a scsi package now. [18:56] oh okay [18:56] ah [18:56] who's chairing this thing? [18:56] sudodus: keep us posted if it concerns Lubuntu please :) [18:56] tsimonq2, I think [18:56] I thought wxl would, but if he doesn't want to, I can [18:57] -__- [18:57] wxl: your choice [18:57] is the boss finally coming? [18:57] i'lts go for it [18:57] ugh [18:57] Yes, [18:57] go for it i mean [18:57] I see squares again ._. [18:57] I really want gilir to come to the meetings :) [18:57] well, we have something important to say :| [18:57] * tsimonq2 finished the sentence so redwolf didn't ;) [18:58] wxl: \o/ [18:58] oh shoot i need to brush up on my meetingology skills /o\ [18:58] *I [19:00] wxl: should we wait for Julien or just go for it? [19:00] go for it [19:00] yer! [19:00] #startmeeting Lubuntu Team Meeting for July 20, 2016 [19:00] Meeting started Wed Jul 20 19:00:36 2016 UTC. The chair is tsimonq2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [19:00] Available commands: action commands idea info link nick === meetingology changed the topic of #lubuntu-devel to: Lubuntu QA/Development | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/QA | Support: #lubuntu | Chat: #lubuntu-offtopic | Now Testing: Xenial Xerus 16.04.1 due 21 July, Yakkety Yak 16.10 dailies | Lubuntu Team Meeting for July 20, 2016 | Current topic: [19:00] While we are waiting, I'd like to say that 16.04.1 is really much improved compared the 16.04. Now it is a nice LTS release :-) [19:01] could you show your attendance by saying o/ please ? [19:01] o/ [19:01] o/ [19:01] o/ [19:01] o/ [19:01] great, we are just waiting on Julien [19:01] Here is our planned meeting agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda [19:02] #topic https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda === meetingology changed the topic of #lubuntu-devel to: Lubuntu QA/Development | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/QA | Support: #lubuntu | Chat: #lubuntu-offtopic | Now Testing: Xenial Xerus 16.04.1 due 21 July, Yakkety Yak 16.10 dailies | Lubuntu Team Meeting for July 20, 2016 | Current topic: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda [19:02] whoops [19:02] #topic Yakkety Alpha 2/16.04.1/14.04.5 and SRU work === meetingology changed the topic of #lubuntu-devel to: Lubuntu QA/Development | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/QA | Support: #lubuntu | Chat: #lubuntu-offtopic | Now Testing: Xenial Xerus 16.04.1 due 21 July, Yakkety Yak 16.10 dailies | Lubuntu Team Meeting for July 20, 2016 | Current topic: Yakkety Alpha 2/16.04.1/14.04.5 and SRU work [19:02] There [19:02] so coming up, we have 16.04.1 that is supposed to be release tomorrow [19:03] as sudodus said, we have a lot of nice fixes that really makes it a good release [19:03] we had a rebuild yesterday due to a libfm fix [19:04] and a rebuild today due to a light-locker-settings fix [19:04] buyt we are actually almost covered in testing [19:04] *but [19:04] http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/363/builds [19:04] I'm working on the rest of the amd64 alternate test cases [19:05] we're good to go on Desktop [19:05] we just need to tackle Alternate i386 [19:05] I hope you will be able to do some double-checking tests of Lubuntu 16.04.1 after this meeting :-) [19:05] sudodus: did you plan on doing that today or should I? [19:05] sudodus: and in what way should I double-check? :) [19:06] Do the same testcase but with your hardware :-) [19:06] sudodus: I usually do them in a VM just to smoke test :) [19:06] yes, hardware testing is always welcome, especially when it comes to LTS releases [19:06] I agree with wxl [19:07] hi there, sorry for beeing late :-/ [19:07] hello gilir! :) [19:07] hi gilir [19:07] o/ gilir [19:07] no problem. good to see you gilir :) [19:07] gilir: we were currently talking about 16.04.1 beingreleased tomorrow [19:07] gilir: you aren't that late :) [19:07] anyways [19:08] so although I can't test with my own hardware as I don't have much to test with, I'm glad sudodus is testing it as well [19:09] the release notes are almost done, soon after the meeting they will be on the usual /Draft wiki page [19:09] Maybe someone else can test too, and on hardware [19:09] and like I said, I'm working to smoke test [19:09] might want to call out for hardware testing [19:09] like on the mailing list? [19:09] yeah [19:09] can't hurt [19:10] I see, alright [19:10] #action tsimonq2: send an email to the lubuntu-devel list asking for hardware testing of 16.04.1 [19:10] ACTION: tsimonq2: send an email to the lubuntu-devel list asking for hardware testing of 16.04.1 [19:10] there [19:11] so let's talk about Yakkety Alpha 2 [19:11] that's next week Thursday [19:11] and while there's not much that's exciting (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) we should be aware of it :) [19:12] sudodus: will you be able to help test Alpha 2 as well next week? :) [19:12] I will [19:12] what problems should we look for with yakkety? [19:12] abiword [19:12] yes [19:13] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/Alpha1/Lubuntu [19:13] that has the known problems ^ [19:13] ooh, the btrfs/xfs bug? [19:13] OK [19:13] yup [19:13] gilir: did you ever get a chance to fix bug 1591851 ? [19:13] bug 1591851 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "The creation of a BTRFS or XFS partition fails during install of Lubuntu Daily Live image" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1591851 [19:13] (it seems to be a metapackage thing) [19:14] you should be fixed, last time I checked the btrfs stuff was on the ISO [19:14] you / it [19:14] alright, thanks gilir :) [19:14] but otherwise I see nothing major [19:14] 14.04.5! [19:15] the planned release date for that is August 4th [19:15] It would be nice if we can SRU usb-creator-gtk 0.3.2 from Xenial to Trusty [19:15] i am in support of that idea [19:15] sudodus: is there a bug filed? I can work to get that good to go [19:16] Yes [19:16] or gilir if he prefers :) [19:16] either way, +1 with me as well [19:16] but maybe some particular person should be asked to do it (personal contact) [19:16] gilir never refuses an opportunity to put more work on his plate ;) [19:17] I pass on this one :-) [19:17] heheheh [19:17] #topic tsimonq2: get usb-creator-gtk 0.3.2 into Trusty === meetingology changed the topic of #lubuntu-devel to: Lubuntu QA/Development | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/QA | Support: #lubuntu | Chat: #lubuntu-offtopic | Now Testing: Xenial Xerus 16.04.1 due 21 July, Yakkety Yak 16.10 dailies | Lubuntu Team Meeting for July 20, 2016 | Current topic: tsimonq2: get usb-creator-gtk 0.3.2 into Trusty [19:17] oh jeez [19:17] gahh meetingbot [19:17] #topic Yakkety Alpha 2/16.04.1/14.04.5 and SRU work === meetingology changed the topic of #lubuntu-devel to: Lubuntu QA/Development | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/QA | Support: #lubuntu | Chat: #lubuntu-offtopic | Now Testing: Xenial Xerus 16.04.1 due 21 July, Yakkety Yak 16.10 dailies | Lubuntu Team Meeting for July 20, 2016 | Current topic: Yakkety Alpha 2/16.04.1/14.04.5 and SRU work [19:18] #agenda tsimonq2: get usb-creator-gtk 0.3.2 into Trusty [19:18] noo [19:18] #action tsimonq2: get usb-creator-gtk 0.3.2 into Trusty [19:18] there :P [19:18] ACTION: tsimonq2: get usb-creator-gtk 0.3.2 into Trusty [19:18] also, gilir had some SRUs he submitted to the mailing list [19:19] I'll be sure to include fixes in the release notes as well :) [19:19] oh and we need ppc testing bad. [19:19] +1 [19:19] can't release the untested. [19:19] +1 [19:19] besides that, any other items for this before we move on? [19:19] but yes, I don't have a PPC machine to test [19:19] as much as it pains me to say this, maybe we should start considering dropping ppc. [19:20] wxl: could you send an email to the mailing list to get widespread feedback if you think that it's the best option? [19:21] oh yeah. i mean it's a case where the users need to be testers or it just can't happen [19:21] I garee [19:21] *agree [19:21] it's not even a choice [19:21] if they aren't tested, canonical won't release them [19:21] Yes, I think 16.04 LTS can be the last version for PPC. It is getting really hard to get it tested, so probably very few people use it nowadays [19:22] yeah [19:22] but i don't just want to make the decision [19:22] so could somebody send something to the mailing list then? [19:22] i'd rather open it up to the community and let them decide [19:22] yeah I agree [19:22] +1 [19:22] i'll do it [19:22] good idea [19:23] #action wxl: send an email to lubuntu-* about dropping ppc support [19:23] ACTION: wxl: send an email to lubuntu-* about dropping ppc support [19:23] so anything else before we move on? [19:24] I'd just like to say thanks to sudodus for all of the testing he's been doing :) [19:24] let's move on! :) [19:24] +1 [19:24] #topic Bug Day === meetingology changed the topic of #lubuntu-devel to: Lubuntu QA/Development | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/QA | Support: #lubuntu | Chat: #lubuntu-offtopic | Now Testing: Xenial Xerus 16.04.1 due 21 July, Yakkety Yak 16.10 dailies | Lubuntu Team Meeting for July 20, 2016 | Current topic: Bug Day [19:24] Lubuntu is running a Bug Day on the 26th [19:25] yay bug day [19:25] we are basically going to get help from the community to go through our bugs [19:25] I hope we get AbiWord bugs triaged, last I checked we have hundreds of them! :) [19:25] ew abiword [19:26] I agree with wxl :P [19:26] .__. [19:26] are we going to focus on a particular segment or prioritize? [19:26] like perhaps it might be good to focus on lx components first? [19:26] hundreds of bugs on Abiword??? [19:26] it's buggy, yes [19:26] and then move on to apps that we tend to be the primary users of like, um, abiword [19:26] well I was going to ask, is there anything that you guys want triages? [19:26] but we have no replacement [19:27] *triages [19:27] **triaged [19:27] ugh [19:27] sure we do, redwolf, it's called vim. :) [19:27] * wxl ducks [19:27] :| [19:27] but yes, I agree with wxl [19:27] ohhhhhhhh XD [19:27] * tsimonq2 gives wxl a high-five [19:27] anyways [19:27] gilir, about this... [19:27] if you want to work on abiword, you probably want to talk to jbicha, he was quite active on it recently [19:28] I told tsimonq2 we were playing with the solution for the last bug [19:28] I think many Lubuntu users install LibreOffice [19:28] alright gilir, I'll keep him in the loop :) [19:28] redwolf, right, but I don't think it's strickly a bug theme [19:29] another thing besides specific bugs, we are having an Ubuntu On Air session on the 25th from 1900 to 2000 UTC [19:29] http://ubuntuonair.com/ will have all the details [19:29] our theme just "activate" it, see upstream bug here : http://bugzilla.abisource.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13791 [19:29] bugzilla.abisource.com bug 13791 in Front End - GTK "constant redraw flicker when document not empty" [Major,New] [19:29] not really, right [19:29] Is it an option to change to Adwaita - or does it look too bad? [19:29] but GTK is being buggy lately. they're not XDG compliant [19:29] they included CSD this month, but that's all [19:30] all themes are going in the opposite direction [19:30] switching to adwaita make a big visual difference between gtk2 and gtk3 apps :-/ [19:30] I'm doing tests with Adwaita, that would free us from Light Themes [19:30] indeed [19:30] here: http://pasteboard.co/dQVgYvcyh.png [19:30] and here: http://pasteboard.co/dQVfzYX7o.png [19:30] specially the file manager [19:31] but I wouldn't consider it a problem, yet [19:31] redwolf: so I guess my question is, are there fixes coming or are we switching the theme? [19:31] anyway, gilir, aren't we more "gnomized" now? [19:32] tsimonq2, this will fix the flickering, but it must be fixed on abiword specifically [19:32] I see [19:32] but back on the topic of bug day [19:32] anyway, we're "vulnerable" to more GTK problems in the future, unless Canonical gets the right direction [19:32] so this is being held until more tests are done [19:32] any packages people want addressed for bug day? [19:32] I see [19:33] those screenshots look good enough :-) [19:33] sudodus, yes, but it doesn't look "lubuntu" :) [19:33] redwolf: "right direction" means? [19:34] wxl, XDG compliant, with full Qt support. Light Themes are proved visually incompatible in some apps because they are always late upgrading the widgets [19:34] ahhhh [19:34] :( [19:34] and usually, sudden upgrades appear close to release dates, with ugly outcomes [19:34] redwolf: are you in talks with Canonical's design team about this? [19:34] are there bugs created for that? [19:34] but I still trust Design Team guys [19:35] I did, long time ago, about the "sync" between flavours [19:35] but I was told we're a community and they can't, obviously, think about the repercussion on every theme change [19:35] anyway, if Ubuntu looks good, Lubuntu will too [19:36] great :) [19:36] sorry guys, gotta quit [19:36] sorry to cut y'all short, this discussion should be continued [19:36] o/ redwolf [19:36] thanks everybody [19:36] o/ [19:37] o/ rewolf [19:37] so let's hand the floor to wxl [19:37] #topic QA === meetingology changed the topic of #lubuntu-devel to: Lubuntu QA/Development | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/QA | Support: #lubuntu | Chat: #lubuntu-offtopic | Now Testing: Xenial Xerus 16.04.1 due 21 July, Yakkety Yak 16.10 dailies | Lubuntu Team Meeting for July 20, 2016 | Current topic: QA [19:37] anything new? :) [19:37] well, i think we pretty much covered it :) [19:37] just make sure to show up at Bug Day! [19:37] and test a lot. [19:37] ok, love you bye. :) [19:37] I agree [19:37] XD [19:37] #topic Donation Area [19:37] wxl still has the floor! === meetingology changed the topic of #lubuntu-devel to: Lubuntu QA/Development | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/QA | Support: #lubuntu | Chat: #lubuntu-offtopic | Now Testing: Xenial Xerus 16.04.1 due 21 July, Yakkety Yak 16.10 dailies | Lubuntu Team Meeting for July 20, 2016 | Current topic: Donation Area [19:38] pass. haven't done a thing with it. [19:38] :P [19:38] wxl: what's the status going forward? [19:38] ultimately we need to start from scratch again. [19:38] wxl: would you be able to get that started again? [19:39] or do you not want to? [19:39] i noticed (for the first time) there's an lxde foundation, so i thought maybe i might pick mario's brain about that. [19:39] alright :) [19:39] #topic Wiki === meetingology changed the topic of #lubuntu-devel to: Lubuntu QA/Development | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/QA | Support: #lubuntu | Chat: #lubuntu-offtopic | Now Testing: Xenial Xerus 16.04.1 due 21 July, Yakkety Yak 16.10 dailies | Lubuntu Team Meeting for July 20, 2016 | Current topic: Wiki [19:39] last time you have the floor wxl :P [19:40] oh do i have the floor for the wiki?? [19:40] yep [19:40] i think that might have been an old agenda item, unless someonme has a specific question [19:40] wxl: that's the status of our documentation? [19:40] *what's [19:41] well, we need more help, really. ultimately, we need someone to lead the team. [19:41] that's kind of something we've neeeded for a looooooooooooooong time [19:41] wxl: has a call been put out at all? can this be brought up on the mailing list and someone picked? [19:41] without any sort of vision for what we're doing, it's hard to imagine anything getting done except little additions/changes here and there [19:41] I see [19:42] it was something we put a call out about a while back [19:42] interest was lukewarm to say the least [19:42] so what do you suggest going forward then? [19:42] I don't understand why we have two sets of wiki pages, at the Ubuntu wiki pages and the Ubuntu help pages. [19:42] keep trying. that's about all we can do. maybe also reach out the documentation team [19:43] sudodus: i kind of don't either, to be frank [19:43] ooh, good idea, maybe some collaboration there, wxl? [19:43] help.u.c is SUPPOSED to be for official support [19:43] e.g. the Testing page wouldn't belong there [19:43] but manual pages should be there [19:43] but we have manual pages all over the place, so i don't know [19:43] again, lack of vision [19:44] although the Ubuntu Docs team is going through some trouble, so maybe we should wait for them to resolve their issues and then ask them for some help? [19:44] s/so// [19:44] yeah or maybe perhaps pining the mailing list might pull some people out that would rather work with a smaller team? i don't know [19:44] i think it would be good to ping the mailing list. we can always try later [19:44] give me a work item [19:45] #action wxl: ping the ubuntu-docs mailing list about the Lubuntu documentation [19:45] ACTION: wxl: ping the ubuntu-docs mailing list about the Lubuntu documentation [19:45] there [19:45] moving on [19:45] #topic LXQt === meetingology changed the topic of #lubuntu-devel to: Lubuntu QA/Development | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/QA | Support: #lubuntu | Chat: #lubuntu-offtopic | Now Testing: Xenial Xerus 16.04.1 due 21 July, Yakkety Yak 16.10 dailies | Lubuntu Team Meeting for July 20, 2016 | Current topic: LXQt [19:45] giving the floor to gilir [19:45] gilir: what's been going on in LXQt land? :) [19:45] I hear there is a release incoming? [19:46] No progress here, LXQt planned a release some days ago [19:46] but it's not release yet [19:47] alright, keep us posted :) [19:47] #topic Startup Disk Creator - mkusb === meetingology changed the topic of #lubuntu-devel to: Lubuntu QA/Development | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/QA | Support: #lubuntu | Chat: #lubuntu-offtopic | Now Testing: Xenial Xerus 16.04.1 due 21 July, Yakkety Yak 16.10 dailies | Lubuntu Team Meeting for July 20, 2016 | Current topic: Startup Disk Creator - mkusb [19:47] sudodus: you have the floor :) [19:48] sudodus: anything new? [19:48] Well, tecnically, mkusb is rather stable now [19:48] and the Startup Disk creator alias usb-creator-gtk 0,3.2 is stable too [19:49] sudodus: how long before the qt version of mkusb is available? XD [19:49] ^ XD [19:49] But there is no progress to get mkusb accepted in a repository. I need help from someone who knows how to do it. [19:50] sudodus: I can assist after the meeting if you wish [19:50] tsimonq2: it needs to go into debian first [19:51] wxl: there's a process for that ;) [19:51] I don't know if it is necessary with a particular version of mkusb for LXQt. mkusb works in Kubuntu already (but needs zenity, Would that be be in LXQt?) [19:52] OK, tsimonq2, let talk about that after the meeting [19:52] alright :) [19:52] #topic Future meetings === meetingology changed the topic of #lubuntu-devel to: Lubuntu QA/Development | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/QA | Support: #lubuntu | Chat: #lubuntu-offtopic | Now Testing: Xenial Xerus 16.04.1 due 21 July, Yakkety Yak 16.10 dailies | Lubuntu Team Meeting for July 20, 2016 | Current topic: Future meetings [19:52] I have the floor for this one :) [19:53] so would we meet on 10 August at the same time? [19:53] I will probably be travel on 10 August. [19:54] *travelling [19:54] I wanted to bring this up because I have school coming up, and I don't know if there is a time that I can be here that everyone else can be here as well [19:54] sudodus: so maybe the 17th? [19:54] That's better for me [19:55] I guess it's just something that I'd like to keep in mind, that I might not be able to make these meetings [19:55] well i think if we make them much later that makes it hard for gilir and redwolf [19:55] when I get my schedule we can probably *see* if there is a different time, but we should be wary [19:55] that is what I'm saying wxl [19:56] k i guess we'll see [19:56] yep [19:56] final agenda item [19:56] #topic Snappy packages === meetingology changed the topic of #lubuntu-devel to: Lubuntu QA/Development | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/QA | Support: #lubuntu | Chat: #lubuntu-offtopic | Now Testing: Xenial Xerus 16.04.1 due 21 July, Yakkety Yak 16.10 dailies | Lubuntu Team Meeting for July 20, 2016 | Current topic: Snappy packages [19:56] I personally love Snappy [19:57] I'm a Snapcraft contributor [19:57] and although Lubuntu supports installing a snap, it would be nice to have a Lubuntu snap [19:57] do you mean a lubuntu snap or an lxde snap? [19:57] a Lubuntu snap [19:58] I specifically wanted to hear from gilir on this [19:58] to make it easier for people to switch between flavors??? [19:58] Do you mean containing lubuntu-desktop? [19:58] yes [19:58] (to both of you) [19:58] I played a bit with snap [19:58] where can we find how to make snaps? [19:58] sudodus: http://snapcraft.io/ [19:59] looks like a viable option for individual packages, but not really for an all desktop installation [19:59] i don't know, the idea of being able to switch flavors so quickly seems rather attractive [19:59] Thanks, I'll look at it [19:59] sudodus: we also have #snappy on freenode and a repo with a bunch of already snapped packakes: https://github.com/ubuntu/snappy-playpen [19:59] *packages [19:59] it reminds me binary installation on windows ... copying all .dll in 1 folder ... [19:59] a common complaint i hear from users is how to get rid of all their non-lubuntu stuff when they install lubuntu-desktop [20:00] I've been working on a little proof-of-concept: https://github.com/tsimonq2/lubuntu-distro-snaps [20:01] gilir: so is your issue just the fact that it would be a snap of Lubuntu and not individual applications? [20:02] o/ lynorian [20:02] because if so, like I said, I would be willing to maintain it [20:02] tsimonq2, I can't really see the benefit of this [20:03] tsimonq2, if you make 1 snap by apps, the copy of all libraries in all snap wil be insane [20:04] gilir: Snaps are fast, they are easy to update, they are secure, and like wxl said, it makes it easy to install Lubuntu and easily remove it if you wish [20:04] the primary pusher of snaps is ubuntu [20:04] tsimonq2, if you do 1 big snap wil all the packages, well, that will looks like a big massive horrible binary [20:04] well I would be willing to test which is bigger, a Lubuntu snap or the lubuntu-desktop package installed [20:04] but people use ubuntu a little while and they think "wonder what the grass is like on the other side" [20:05] if they could just replace ubuntu-desktop with lubuntu-desktop that would be fantastic [20:05] tsimonq2, sounds like maketing to me, .deb can do a pretty good job [20:06] gilir: yes Debian packages can do a good job, there are just specific advantages that wxl and I are looking at [20:06] gilir: and like I said, I would be willing to maintain it [20:06] Are there other differences except the packaging? I've heard about sandbox aspects of snaps. [20:07] sudodus: it's similar to mounting an .iso image [20:07] sudodus: it's read-only, you mount one image, and it's mounted as a loop device [20:08] tsimonq2, it's free software, do what you want :-) But cleary I don't have time to help on another packaging system (I saw some in the past years ...) [20:08] So a read-only file system [20:08] sudodus: yes, although it uses already existing filesystems, it doesn't roll it's own [20:08] gilir: alright :) [20:08] Just saying, I tested them, I'm not so impress, and I don't think if useable for large scale of packages [20:09] alright [20:09] well we can talk more afterwards if you all want, but we're over time on our meeting [20:09] thanks for coming everyone! [20:09] #endmeeting === meetingology changed the topic of #lubuntu-devel to: Lubuntu QA/Development | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/QA | Support: #lubuntu | Chat: #lubuntu-offtopic | Now Testing: Xenial Xerus 16.04.1 due 21 July, Yakkety Yak 16.10 dailies [20:09] Meeting ended Wed Jul 20 20:09:59 2016 UTC. [20:09] Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/lubuntu-devel/2016/lubuntu-devel.2016-07-20-19.00.moin.txt [20:10] thx all [20:10] wxl: could you add 14.04.5 to the topic, maybe? :) [20:10] arf, I miss the topic about yakkety seed changes :-/ [20:11] anyway, I'll send a mail about this [20:11] alright gilir [20:12] tsimonq2, about 14.04.5, it fails to build sometime ago, you probably want to check if lubuntu-desktop is still installable on trusty [20:13] I can test that too (on a mini text system). [20:13] I can't stay longer, sorry :-/ thanks tsimonq2 for the meeting :-) [20:13] :) [20:15] tsimonq2: is it time for a post-meeting talk about mkusb packaging now? [20:15] sure :) [20:16] sudodus: so you want the mkusb package in Debian/Ubuntu ? [20:17] Well, in what way would it be better than in a Launchpad PPA? - easier for beginners to install ... [20:18] sudodus: PPAs are somewhat unsupported [20:18] I have read about the complicated route to an official debian/ubuntu package. [20:18] and i can help with that [20:18] *I [20:19] sudodus: if you tell me where the source code is, I can debianify it, then I'll get it uploaded to Debian Unstable [20:19] sudodus: it will then travel down to Ubuntu [20:19] That's great - I enjoy programming and testing, but I'm not good at getting official or bureaucratic things working. [20:19] alright :) [20:20] so where is the source code? [20:20] I think you might get it via two sources, ppa:mkusb/ppa and Phill's server [20:21] sudodus: I mean, the source code [20:21] where is it developerd? [20:21] *developed [20:21] http://phillw.net/isos/linux-tools/mkusb/ [20:22] so that is where it is developed? [20:23] There is no compiled code, only bash shellscripts - I have my own directories with help scripts in my computer [20:23] alright :) [20:23] sudodus: you should really think about learning a version control system such as Git :) [20:24] but the ppa contains the package, I would think in principle like you would use for an official repository [20:25] Maybe that would help :-) [20:25] I mean git. [20:25] is mkusb not this special alias cat *.iso > /dev/$foo ? :P [20:25] hi sudodus tsimonq2 [20:26] o/ agaida [20:26] hi agaida [20:28] Originally mkusb was only using dd under the hood. The important task is to wrap security around dd. Later on I added tools to wipe drives and create new partition tables and file system, and also a method to create persistent live drives. So it is a big shellscript (but still only bash). [20:30] tsimonq2: Anyway, what are the steps that you can help me along? [20:30] sudodus: I'll make sure the debian files are compliant with the standards, I'll make sure it builds fine, then I'll ask a Debian Developer to upload it [20:31] sudodus: then all you have to do is wait for the package to get down to Yakkety [20:32] sudodus: in the meantime, since you have a PPA, I'll give you instructions for getting it into your PPA [20:32] * agaida think the release name will begin with a Z [20:32] Sounds nice :-) ButI guess you will ask question along the path. I will try to reply and supply what you need. [20:32] in fact sudodus, I just applied to be in the mkusb team [20:33] sudodus: could you please approve me? :) [20:36] Done [20:37] great [20:37] sudodus, does mkusb have a way to say you have an install disk but want to make it back into a mass storage device through new partition table and then putting a partition on it with security? [20:38] If you have not done it, I suggest that you install mkusb into your Lubuntu system according to this link [20:38] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/mkusb#Quick_start_manual_and_mkusb_PPA [20:39] and get used to it. [20:40] No, but it can do it (overwrite whatever is on the drive). It can also fix issues with GPT, and the backup table at the tail end of the drive [20:46] tsimonq2: You are silent. Do you need more fast feedback now, or can I leave this chat? We can always send eemails, and when you want, when can start chatting again at this channel. [20:46] sudodus: I'm working :) [20:46] sudodus: I'll give you feedback via email soon if you wish [20:47] Thanks :-) [21:27] wxl: aaaaaand we have a hardware tester! \o/ [21:28] whoozat? [21:29] wxl: look on lubuntu-devel list [21:29] oh ian? i kind of tend to ignore his emails as i do fritz'. not to be mean, but theere's always so much detail, i'm not sure what the point is half the time. [21:30] wxl: well tl;dr he tested and it works fine :P [21:32] well that's ghood [21:36] tsimonq2: nio got at the issue i have [21:37] aha [21:37] testing without docuemted results is pretty much useless [21:38] s/\(documented\)/formally \1/ === MrBIOS_ is now known as MrBIOS [21:38] I see [21:38] i've sung this same refrain over and over and there are certain folks who just seem to either ignore it or not get it [21:40] I see [21:41] going forward that's an area of potential improvement [21:41] whether it be in how we communicate it or documenation or i don't know what [21:41] wxl: trying something over and over expecting different results is insanity [21:42] wxl: if you really want it to stop, enforce it [21:42] that's why i said area of potential improvement [21:42] I see [21:42] there's nothing to enforce that will result in positive results [21:42] i can say "you're going to get banned from the list unless your testing ends up documented formally on the tracker as per our instructions" [21:42] in which case the response will likely be "ok, well, i'll stop testing then" [21:43] what we need is to convert the interest and effort into formally documented results [21:43] perhaps the task seems too daunting? [21:43] instructions need help? [21:43] like i said, i don't knwo [21:43] no, I would send them a private email saying something like this, "I really really want you to keep testing, you are a great tester, but could you please report your results in the appropriate place as well as posting on the mailing list?" [21:44] why do you assume that enforcement is negative? [21:44] what you're talking about is encouragement not enforcement [21:45] then let's exersize encouragement [21:45] I guess, why be negative? why use an iron hammer? [21:45] yeah i don't want to be [21:45] that's what i'm saying [21:45] it won't help [21:45] of course neither will ignoring and that's mostly what i've resolved to do XD [21:47] I'll say something to them next time [21:47] i guess we'll see if he follows nio's advice.. [21:47] yep [21:48] meanwhile I'm packaging mkusb and getting it ready for Debian [21:48] wow [21:48] so you know the whole process of packaging for Debian and then getting it in Ubuntu? [21:48] like the back of my hand [21:49] wow could you document it? [21:49] well, not really, but I'm close [21:49] well there's docs all over [21:49] yeah and i think that's the problem [21:49] they're all over [21:49] not in one place [21:50] I see [21:50] imagine if you had to read the entirety of the rsync manpage across several unlinked manpages [21:52] yeah :P [21:52] wxl: I'll make a blog post [21:53] yes please [21:53] wxl: do you know what the check-all-the-things package is? [21:53] XD [21:53] no but it sounds nice! [21:54] it literally goes through and picks your package apart [21:54] see what i'm saying [21:54] i haven't even seen this mentioned before [21:54] although it's proabably on SOME page somewhere [21:54] yeah [21:57] *gasp* git cherry-pick is AWESOME! :D [22:12] its even more awesome with the -n switch