[00:16] <tsimonq2> YES! the libfm fix made it in!
[00:16] <wxl> yay
[00:16]  * tsimonq2 smoke tests
[00:19] <tsimonq2> wxl: think I should poke /win 20
[00:19] <tsimonq2> whopps
[00:19] <tsimonq2> ahhhhhhhh
[00:19] <tsimonq2> wxl: think I should poke slangasek about getting an experimental LXQt image?
[00:20] <wxl> tsimonq2: not until we have some sense as to what the additional applications would be like
[00:20] <tsimonq2> alright wxl
[00:20] <wxl> that's what i think, at least
[00:21] <tsimonq2> wxl: well we already have a metapackage, no?
[00:21] <tsimonq2> wxl: I mean, would it hurt? :)
[00:22] <wxl> potentially
[00:22] <tsimonq2> how so?
[00:22] <wxl> i'm not sure canonical has the resources to do something "just because"
[00:23] <wxl> and i'm not sure it would be really useful to the end user since it would be incomplete
[00:23] <tsimonq2> oh I see
[00:23] <wxl> if they wanted something incomplete, they could also just build their own system with the metapackage
[00:23] <tsimonq2> yeah
[00:24] <wxl> i love the idea but the fact of the matter is we just need to wait
[00:24] <tsimonq2> I see
[06:29] <flexiondotorg> tsimonq2, o/
[06:29] <flexiondotorg> One of the Ubuntu MATE servers (the one running my ZNC bouncer) failed overnight.
[06:29] <flexiondotorg> I've lost some IRC history.
[06:29] <flexiondotorg> So, if you messaged me. I missed it.
[06:46] <tsimonq2> I didn't
[07:03] <flexiondotorg> tsimonq2, o/
[07:03] <flexiondotorg> Looks like Lubuntu testing is going well.
[07:03] <flexiondotorg> I'm doing some Ubuntu MATE testing now.
[07:03] <flexiondotorg> Looks good enough to me :-)
[07:12] <tsimonq2> flexiondotorg: Lubuntu is doing one more respin
[07:12] <flexiondotorg> tsimonq2, Because?
[07:13] <tsimonq2> flexiondotorg: light-locker-settings is completely broken, a fix is landing very soon
[07:13] <flexiondotorg> Thanks. Not a thing that I need to worry about :-)
[08:51] <flexiondotorg> tsimonq2, Any chance someone in Lubuntu can do a quick install of Ubuntu MATE 16.04.1 on PowerPC?
[08:51] <tsimonq2> flexiondotorg: I wish I could help you
[08:52] <tsimonq2> unfortunately I don't know who has a PowerPC machine
[08:52] <flexiondotorg> OK
[18:46] <tsimonq2> wxl: we had one last respin this morning
[18:46] <tsimonq2> wxl: but the testing is almost done
[18:49] <redwolf> o/ sudodus
[18:49] <sudodus> o/
[18:49] <tsimonq2> sudodus! :)
[18:49] <tsimonq2> sudodus: thanks for helping test 16.04.1 a lot, even after today's respin. I appreciate it. :)
[18:50] <sudodus> You are welcome :-)
[18:51] <tsimonq2> sudodus: this morning's respin was due to a fix that made light-locker-settings go from completely unusable to working, all fine now
[18:51] <sudodus> I see.
[18:52] <redwolf> tsimonq2, what happens with mini.iso?
[18:53] <sudodus> But there are still problems with Intel graphics. The cursor is lost after locking. Fix: ctrl+alt+F1, ctrl+alt+F7
[18:53] <tsimonq2> sudodus: the respin before that (which I also requested) has the libfm fix
[18:53] <tsimonq2> yes :(
[18:53] <tsimonq2> redwolf: related to sudodus' thread?
[18:54] <sudodus> I tested the xenial 32-bit mini.iso today, and it works, both in my Toshiba and in VirtualBox.
[18:54] <redwolf> no, mailing lists
[18:54] <redwolf> it seems failing in vbox
[18:54] <redwolf> but I tested it on Boxes and it works
[18:54] <redwolf> (kvm)
[18:54] <sudodus> There was a report about that, but it works for me.
[18:55] <redwolf> yes, same here
[18:55] <redwolf> odd
[18:55] <redwolf> I  hope the one who reported did a checksum test
[18:55] <redwolf> .__.
[18:55] <tsimonq2> XD
[18:55] <sudodus> There is a dialogue at the Ubuntu Forums, and the guy seems to have problems with a scsi package now.
[18:56] <tsimonq2> oh okay
[18:56] <redwolf> ah
[18:56] <wxl> who's chairing this thing?
[18:56] <tsimonq2> sudodus: keep us posted if it concerns Lubuntu please :)
[18:56] <redwolf> tsimonq2, I think
[18:56] <tsimonq2> I thought wxl would, but if he doesn't want to, I can
[18:57] <redwolf> -__-
[18:57] <tsimonq2> wxl: your choice
[18:57] <redwolf> is the boss finally coming?
[18:57] <wxl> i'lts	go for it
[18:57] <wxl> ugh
[18:57] <sudodus> Yes,
[18:57] <wxl> go for it i mean
[18:57] <redwolf> I see squares again ._.
[18:57] <tsimonq2> I really want gilir to come to the meetings :)
[18:57] <redwolf> well, we have something important to say :|
[18:57]  * tsimonq2 finished the sentence so redwolf didn't ;)
[18:58] <tsimonq2> wxl: \o/
[18:58] <tsimonq2> oh shoot i need to brush up on my meetingology skills /o\
[18:58] <tsimonq2> *I
[19:00] <tsimonq2> wxl: should we wait for Julien or just go for it?
[19:00] <wxl> go for it
[19:00] <redwolf> yer!
[19:00] <tsimonq2> #startmeeting Lubuntu Team Meeting for July 20, 2016
[19:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jul 20 19:00:36 2016 UTC.  The chair is tsimonq2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[19:00] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[19:00] <sudodus> While we are waiting, I'd like to say that 16.04.1 is really much improved compared the 16.04. Now it is a nice LTS release :-)
[19:01] <tsimonq2> could you show your attendance by saying o/ please ?
[19:01] <tsimonq2> o/
[19:01] <redwolf> o/
[19:01] <wxl> o/
[19:01] <sudodus> o/
[19:01] <tsimonq2> great, we are just waiting on Julien
[19:01] <tsimonq2> Here is our planned meeting agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
[19:02] <tsimonq2> #topic https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
[19:02] <tsimonq2> whoops
[19:02] <tsimonq2> #topic Yakkety Alpha 2/16.04.1/14.04.5 and SRU work
[19:02] <tsimonq2> There
[19:02] <tsimonq2> so coming up, we have 16.04.1 that is supposed to be release tomorrow
[19:03] <tsimonq2> as sudodus said, we have a lot of nice fixes that really makes it a good release
[19:03] <tsimonq2> we had a rebuild yesterday due to a libfm fix
[19:04] <tsimonq2> and a rebuild today due to a light-locker-settings fix
[19:04] <tsimonq2> buyt we are actually almost covered in testing
[19:04] <tsimonq2> *but
[19:04] <tsimonq2> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/363/builds
[19:04] <tsimonq2> I'm working on the rest of the amd64 alternate test cases
[19:05] <tsimonq2> we're good to go on Desktop
[19:05] <tsimonq2> we just need to tackle Alternate i386
[19:05] <sudodus> I hope you will be able to do some double-checking tests of Lubuntu 16.04.1 after this meeting :-)
[19:05] <tsimonq2> sudodus: did you plan on doing that today or should I?
[19:05] <tsimonq2> sudodus: and in what way should I double-check? :)
[19:06] <sudodus> Do the same testcase but with your hardware :-)
[19:06] <tsimonq2> sudodus: I usually do them in a VM just to smoke test :)
[19:06] <wxl> yes, hardware testing is always welcome, especially when it comes to LTS releases
[19:06] <tsimonq2> I agree with wxl
[19:07] <gilir> hi there, sorry for beeing late :-/
[19:07] <tsimonq2> hello gilir! :)
[19:07] <sudodus> hi gilir
[19:07] <redwolf> o/ gilir
[19:07] <wxl> no problem. good to see you gilir :)
[19:07] <tsimonq2> gilir: we were currently talking about 16.04.1 beingreleased tomorrow
[19:07] <tsimonq2> gilir: you aren't that late :)
[19:07] <tsimonq2> anyways
[19:08] <tsimonq2> so although I can't test with my own hardware as I don't have much to test with, I'm glad sudodus is testing it as well
[19:09] <tsimonq2> the release notes are almost done, soon after the meeting they will be on the usual /Draft wiki page
[19:09] <sudodus> Maybe someone else can test too, and on hardware
[19:09] <tsimonq2> and like I said, I'm working to smoke test
[19:09] <wxl> might want to call out for hardware testing
[19:09] <tsimonq2> like on the mailing list?
[19:09] <wxl> yeah
[19:09] <wxl> can't hurt
[19:10] <tsimonq2> I see, alright
[19:10] <tsimonq2> #action tsimonq2: send an email to the lubuntu-devel list asking for hardware testing of 16.04.1
[19:10] <meetingology> ACTION: tsimonq2: send an email to the lubuntu-devel list asking for hardware testing of 16.04.1
[19:10] <tsimonq2> there
[19:11] <tsimonq2> so let's talk about Yakkety Alpha 2
[19:11] <tsimonq2> that's next week Thursday
[19:11] <tsimonq2> and while there's not much that's exciting (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) we should be aware of it :)
[19:12] <tsimonq2> sudodus: will you be able to help test Alpha 2 as well next week? :)
[19:12] <tsimonq2> I will
[19:12] <sudodus> what problems should we look for with yakkety?
[19:12] <redwolf> abiword
[19:12] <tsimonq2> yes
[19:13] <tsimonq2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/Alpha1/Lubuntu
[19:13] <tsimonq2> that has the known problems ^
[19:13] <tsimonq2> ooh, the btrfs/xfs bug?
[19:13] <sudodus> OK
[19:13] <redwolf> yup
[19:13] <tsimonq2> gilir: did you ever get a chance to fix bug 1591851 ?
[19:13] <tsimonq2> (it seems to be a metapackage thing)
[19:14] <gilir> you should be fixed, last time I checked the btrfs stuff was on the ISO
[19:14] <gilir> you / it
[19:14] <tsimonq2> alright, thanks gilir :)
[19:14] <tsimonq2> but otherwise I see nothing major
[19:14] <tsimonq2> 14.04.5!
[19:15] <tsimonq2> the planned release date for that is August 4th
[19:15] <sudodus> It would be nice if we can SRU usb-creator-gtk 0.3.2 from Xenial to Trusty
[19:15] <wxl> i am in support of that idea
[19:15] <tsimonq2> sudodus: is there a bug filed? I can work to get that good to go
[19:16] <sudodus> Yes
[19:16] <tsimonq2> or gilir if he prefers :)
[19:16] <tsimonq2> either way, +1 with me as well
[19:16] <sudodus> but maybe some particular person should be asked to do it (personal contact)
[19:16] <wxl> gilir never refuses an opportunity to put more work on his plate ;)
[19:17] <gilir> I pass on this one :-)
[19:17] <wxl> heheheh
[19:17] <tsimonq2> #topic tsimonq2: get usb-creator-gtk 0.3.2 into Trusty
[19:17] <tsimonq2> oh jeez
[19:17] <tsimonq2> gahh meetingbot
[19:17] <tsimonq2> #topic Yakkety Alpha 2/16.04.1/14.04.5 and SRU work
[19:18] <tsimonq2> #agenda tsimonq2: get usb-creator-gtk 0.3.2 into Trusty
[19:18] <tsimonq2> noo
[19:18] <tsimonq2> #action tsimonq2: get usb-creator-gtk 0.3.2 into Trusty
[19:18] <tsimonq2> there :P
[19:18] <meetingology> ACTION: tsimonq2: get usb-creator-gtk 0.3.2 into Trusty
[19:18] <tsimonq2> also, gilir had some SRUs he submitted to the mailing list
[19:19] <tsimonq2> I'll be sure to include fixes in the release notes as well :)
[19:19] <wxl> oh and we need ppc testing bad.
[19:19] <tsimonq2> +1
[19:19] <wxl> can't release the untested.
[19:19] <sudodus> +1
[19:19] <tsimonq2> besides that, any other items for this before we move on?
[19:19] <tsimonq2> but yes, I don't have a PPC machine to test
[19:19] <wxl> as much as it pains me to say this, maybe we should start considering dropping ppc.
[19:20] <tsimonq2> wxl: could you send an email to the mailing list to get widespread feedback if you think that it's the best option?
[19:21] <wxl> oh yeah. i mean it's a case where the users need to be testers or it just can't happen
[19:21] <tsimonq2> I garee
[19:21] <tsimonq2> *agree
[19:21] <wxl> it's not even a choice
[19:21] <wxl> if they aren't tested, canonical won't release them
[19:21] <sudodus> Yes, I think 16.04 LTS can be the last version for PPC. It is getting really hard to get it tested, so probably very few people use it nowadays
[19:22] <tsimonq2> yeah
[19:22] <wxl> but i don't just want to make the decision
[19:22] <tsimonq2> so could somebody send something to the mailing list then?
[19:22] <wxl> i'd rather open it up to the community and let them decide
[19:22] <tsimonq2> yeah I agree
[19:22] <redwolf> +1
[19:22] <wxl> i'll do it
[19:22] <sudodus> good idea
[19:23] <tsimonq2> #action wxl: send an email to lubuntu-* about dropping ppc support
[19:23] <meetingology> ACTION: wxl: send an email to lubuntu-* about dropping ppc support
[19:23] <tsimonq2> so anything else before we move on?
[19:24] <tsimonq2> I'd just like to say thanks to sudodus for all of the testing he's been doing :)
[19:24] <tsimonq2> let's move on! :)
[19:24] <wxl> +1
[19:24] <tsimonq2> #topic Bug Day
[19:24] <tsimonq2> Lubuntu is running a Bug Day on the 26th
[19:25] <wxl> yay bug day
[19:25] <tsimonq2> we are basically going to get help from the community to go through our bugs
[19:25] <tsimonq2> I hope we get AbiWord bugs triaged, last I checked we have hundreds of them! :)
[19:25] <wxl> ew abiword
[19:26] <tsimonq2> I agree with wxl :P
[19:26] <redwolf> .__.
[19:26] <wxl> are we going to focus on a particular segment or prioritize?
[19:26] <wxl> like perhaps it might be good to focus on lx components first?
[19:26] <sudodus> hundreds of bugs on Abiword???
[19:26] <redwolf> it's buggy, yes
[19:26] <wxl> and then move on to apps that we tend to be the primary users of like, um, abiword
[19:26] <tsimonq2> well I was going to ask, is there anything that you guys want triages?
[19:26] <redwolf> but we have no replacement
[19:27] <tsimonq2> *triages
[19:27] <tsimonq2> **triaged
[19:27] <tsimonq2> ugh
[19:27] <wxl> sure we do, redwolf, it's called vim. :)
[19:27]  * wxl ducks
[19:27] <redwolf> :|
[19:27] <tsimonq2> but yes, I agree with wxl
[19:27] <tsimonq2> ohhhhhhhh XD
[19:27]  * tsimonq2 gives wxl a high-five
[19:27] <tsimonq2> anyways
[19:27] <redwolf> gilir, about this...
[19:27] <gilir> if you want to work on abiword, you probably want to talk to jbicha, he was quite active on it recently
[19:28] <redwolf> I told tsimonq2 we were playing with the solution for the last bug
[19:28] <sudodus> I think many Lubuntu users install LibreOffice
[19:28] <tsimonq2> alright gilir, I'll keep him in the loop :)
[19:28] <gilir> redwolf, right, but I don't think it's strickly a bug theme
[19:29] <tsimonq2> another thing besides specific bugs, we are having an Ubuntu On Air session on the 25th from 1900 to 2000 UTC
[19:29] <tsimonq2> http://ubuntuonair.com/ will have all the details
[19:29] <gilir> our theme just "activate" it, see upstream bug here : http://bugzilla.abisource.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13791
[19:29] <redwolf> not really, right
[19:29] <sudodus> Is it an option to change to Adwaita - or does it look too bad?
[19:29] <redwolf> but GTK is being buggy lately. they're not XDG compliant
[19:29] <redwolf> they included CSD this month, but that's all
[19:30] <redwolf> all themes are going in the opposite direction
[19:30] <gilir> switching to adwaita make a big visual difference between gtk2 and gtk3 apps :-/
[19:30] <redwolf> I'm doing tests with Adwaita, that would free us from Light Themes
[19:30] <redwolf> indeed
[19:30] <redwolf> here: http://pasteboard.co/dQVgYvcyh.png
[19:30] <redwolf> and here: http://pasteboard.co/dQVfzYX7o.png
[19:30] <redwolf> specially the file manager
[19:31] <redwolf> but I wouldn't consider it a problem, yet
[19:31] <tsimonq2> redwolf: so I guess my question is, are there fixes coming or are we switching the theme?
[19:31] <redwolf> anyway, gilir, aren't we more "gnomized" now?
[19:32] <redwolf> tsimonq2, this will fix the flickering, but it must be fixed on abiword specifically
[19:32] <tsimonq2> I see
[19:32] <tsimonq2> but back on the topic of bug day
[19:32] <redwolf> anyway, we're "vulnerable" to more GTK problems in the future, unless Canonical gets the right direction
[19:32] <redwolf> so this is being held until more tests are done
[19:32] <tsimonq2> any packages people want addressed for bug day?
[19:32] <tsimonq2> I see
[19:33] <sudodus> those screenshots look good enough :-)
[19:33] <redwolf> sudodus, yes, but it doesn't look "lubuntu" :)
[19:33] <wxl> redwolf: "right direction" means?
[19:34] <redwolf> wxl, XDG compliant, with full Qt support. Light Themes are proved visually incompatible in some apps because they are always late upgrading the widgets
[19:34] <wxl> ahhhh
[19:34] <wxl> :(
[19:34] <redwolf> and usually, sudden upgrades appear close to release dates, with ugly outcomes
[19:34] <tsimonq2> redwolf: are you in talks with Canonical's design team about this?
[19:34] <wxl> are there bugs created for that?
[19:34] <redwolf> but I still trust Design Team guys
[19:35] <redwolf> I did, long time ago, about the "sync" between flavours
[19:35] <redwolf> but I was told we're a community and they can't, obviously, think about the repercussion on every theme change
[19:35] <redwolf> anyway, if Ubuntu looks good, Lubuntu will too
[19:36] <tsimonq2> great :)
[19:36] <redwolf> sorry guys, gotta quit
[19:36] <tsimonq2> sorry to cut y'all short, this discussion should be continued
[19:36] <tsimonq2> o/ redwolf
[19:36] <redwolf> thanks everybody
[19:36] <redwolf> o/
[19:37] <sudodus> o/ rewolf
[19:37] <tsimonq2> so let's hand the floor to wxl
[19:37] <tsimonq2> #topic QA
[19:37] <tsimonq2> anything new? :)
[19:37] <wxl> well, i think we pretty much covered it :)
[19:37] <wxl> just make sure to show up at Bug Day!
[19:37] <wxl> and test a lot.
[19:37] <wxl> ok, love you bye. :)
[19:37] <tsimonq2> I agree
[19:37] <tsimonq2> XD
[19:37] <tsimonq2> #topic Donation Area
[19:37] <tsimonq2> wxl still has the floor!
[19:38] <wxl> pass. haven't done a thing with it.
[19:38] <tsimonq2> :P
[19:38] <tsimonq2> wxl: what's the status going forward?
[19:38] <wxl> ultimately we need to start from scratch again.
[19:38] <tsimonq2> wxl: would you be able to get that started again?
[19:39] <tsimonq2> or do you not want to?
[19:39] <wxl> i noticed (for the first time) there's an lxde foundation, so i thought maybe i might pick mario's brain about that.
[19:39] <tsimonq2> alright :)
[19:39] <tsimonq2> #topic Wiki
[19:39] <tsimonq2> last time you have the floor wxl :P
[19:40] <wxl> oh do i have the floor for the wiki??
[19:40] <tsimonq2> yep
[19:40] <wxl> i think that might have been an old agenda item, unless someonme has a specific question
[19:40] <tsimonq2> wxl: that's the status of our documentation?
[19:40] <tsimonq2> *what's
[19:41] <wxl> well, we need more help, really. ultimately, we need someone to lead the team.
[19:41] <wxl> that's kind of something we've neeeded for a looooooooooooooong time
[19:41] <tsimonq2> wxl: has a call been put out at all? can this be brought up on the mailing list and someone picked?
[19:41] <wxl> without any sort of vision for what we're doing, it's hard to imagine anything getting done except little additions/changes here and there
[19:41] <tsimonq2> I see
[19:42] <wxl> it was something we put a call out about a while back
[19:42] <wxl> interest was lukewarm to say the least
[19:42] <tsimonq2> so what do you suggest going forward then?
[19:42] <sudodus> I don't understand why we have two sets of wiki pages, at the Ubuntu wiki pages and the Ubuntu help pages.
[19:42] <wxl> keep trying. that's about all we can do. maybe also reach out the documentation team
[19:43] <wxl> sudodus: i kind of don't either, to be frank
[19:43] <tsimonq2> ooh, good idea, maybe some collaboration there, wxl?
[19:43] <wxl> help.u.c is SUPPOSED to be for official support
[19:43] <wxl> e.g. the Testing page wouldn't belong there
[19:43] <wxl> but manual pages should be there
[19:43] <wxl> but we have manual pages all over the place, so i don't know
[19:43] <wxl> again, lack of vision
[19:44] <tsimonq2> although the Ubuntu Docs team is going through some trouble, so maybe we should wait for them to resolve their issues and then ask them for some help?
[19:44] <tsimonq2> s/so//
[19:44] <wxl> yeah or maybe perhaps pining the mailing list might pull some people out that would rather work with a smaller team? i don't know
[19:44] <wxl> i think it would be good to ping the mailing list. we can always try later
[19:44] <wxl> give me a work item
[19:45] <tsimonq2> #action wxl: ping the ubuntu-docs mailing list about the Lubuntu documentation
[19:45] <meetingology> ACTION: wxl: ping the ubuntu-docs mailing list about the Lubuntu documentation
[19:45] <tsimonq2> there
[19:45] <tsimonq2> moving on
[19:45] <tsimonq2> #topic LXQt
[19:45] <tsimonq2> giving the floor to gilir
[19:45] <tsimonq2> gilir: what's been going on in LXQt land? :)
[19:45] <tsimonq2> I hear there is a release incoming?
[19:46] <gilir> No progress here, LXQt planned a release some days ago
[19:46] <gilir> but it's not release yet
[19:47] <tsimonq2> alright, keep us posted :)
[19:47] <tsimonq2> #topic Startup Disk Creator - mkusb
[19:47] <tsimonq2> sudodus: you have the floor :)
[19:48] <tsimonq2> sudodus: anything new?
[19:48] <sudodus> Well, tecnically, mkusb is rather stable now
[19:48] <sudodus> and the Startup Disk creator alias usb-creator-gtk 0,3.2 is stable too
[19:49] <wxl> sudodus: how long before the qt version of mkusb is available? XD
[19:49] <tsimonq2> ^ XD
[19:49] <sudodus> But there is no progress to get mkusb accepted in a repository. I need help from someone who knows how to do it.
[19:50] <tsimonq2> sudodus: I can assist after the meeting if you wish
[19:50] <wxl> tsimonq2: it needs to go into debian first
[19:51] <tsimonq2> wxl: there's a process for that ;)
[19:51] <sudodus> I don't know if it is necessary with a particular version of mkusb for LXQt. mkusb works in Kubuntu already (but needs zenity, Would that be be in LXQt?)
[19:52] <sudodus> OK, tsimonq2, let talk about that after the meeting
[19:52] <tsimonq2> alright :)
[19:52] <tsimonq2> #topic Future meetings
[19:52] <tsimonq2> I have the floor for this one :)
[19:53] <tsimonq2> so would we meet on 10 August at the same time?
[19:53] <sudodus> I will probably be travel on 10 August.
[19:54] <sudodus> *travelling
[19:54] <tsimonq2> I wanted to bring this up because I have school coming up, and I don't know if there is a time that I can be here that everyone else can be here as well
[19:54] <tsimonq2> sudodus: so maybe the 17th?
[19:54] <sudodus> That's better for me
[19:55] <tsimonq2> I guess it's just something that I'd like to keep in mind, that I might not be able to make these meetings
[19:55] <wxl> well i think if we make them much later that makes it hard for gilir and redwolf
[19:55] <tsimonq2> when I get my schedule we can probably *see* if there is a different time, but we should be wary
[19:55] <tsimonq2> that is what I'm saying wxl
[19:56] <wxl> k i guess we'll see
[19:56] <tsimonq2> yep
[19:56] <tsimonq2> final agenda item
[19:56] <tsimonq2> #topic Snappy packages
[19:56] <tsimonq2> I personally love Snappy
[19:57] <tsimonq2> I'm a Snapcraft contributor
[19:57] <tsimonq2> and although Lubuntu supports installing a snap, it would be nice to have a Lubuntu snap
[19:57] <wxl> do you mean a lubuntu snap or an lxde snap?
[19:57] <tsimonq2> a Lubuntu snap
[19:58] <tsimonq2> I specifically wanted to hear from gilir on this
[19:58] <wxl> to make it easier for people to switch between flavors???
[19:58] <sudodus> Do you mean containing lubuntu-desktop?
[19:58] <tsimonq2> yes
[19:58] <tsimonq2> (to both of you)
[19:58] <gilir> I played a bit with snap
[19:58] <sudodus> where can we find how to make snaps?
[19:58] <tsimonq2> sudodus: http://snapcraft.io/
[19:59] <gilir> looks like a viable option for individual packages, but not really for an all desktop installation
[19:59] <wxl> i don't know, the idea of being able to switch flavors so quickly seems rather attractive
[19:59] <sudodus> Thanks, I'll look at it
[19:59] <tsimonq2> sudodus: we also have #snappy on freenode and a repo with a bunch of already snapped packakes: https://github.com/ubuntu/snappy-playpen
[19:59] <tsimonq2> *packages
[19:59] <gilir> it reminds me binary installation on windows ... copying all .dll in 1 folder ...
[19:59] <wxl> a common complaint i hear from users is how to get rid of all their non-lubuntu stuff when they install lubuntu-desktop
[20:00] <tsimonq2> I've been working on a little proof-of-concept: https://github.com/tsimonq2/lubuntu-distro-snaps
[20:01] <tsimonq2> gilir: so is your issue just the fact that it would be a snap of Lubuntu and not individual applications?
[20:02] <sudodus> o/ lynorian
[20:02] <tsimonq2> because if so, like I said, I would be willing to maintain it
[20:02] <gilir> tsimonq2, I can't really see the benefit of this
[20:03] <gilir> tsimonq2, if you make 1 snap by apps, the copy of all libraries in all snap wil be insane
[20:04] <tsimonq2> gilir: Snaps are fast, they are easy to update, they are secure, and like wxl said, it makes it easy to install Lubuntu and easily remove it if you wish
[20:04] <wxl> the primary pusher of snaps is ubuntu
[20:04] <gilir> tsimonq2, if you do 1 big snap wil all the packages, well, that will looks like a big massive horrible binary
[20:04] <tsimonq2> well I would be willing to test which is bigger, a Lubuntu snap or the lubuntu-desktop package installed
[20:04] <wxl> but people use ubuntu a little while and they think "wonder what the grass is like on the other side"
[20:05] <wxl> if they could just replace ubuntu-desktop with lubuntu-desktop that would be fantastic
[20:05] <gilir> tsimonq2, sounds like maketing to me, .deb can do a pretty good job
[20:06] <tsimonq2> gilir: yes Debian packages can do a good job, there are just specific advantages that wxl and I are looking at
[20:06] <tsimonq2> gilir: and like I said, I would be willing to maintain it
[20:06] <sudodus> Are there other differences except the packaging? I've heard about sandbox aspects of snaps.
[20:07] <tsimonq2> sudodus: it's similar to mounting an .iso image
[20:07] <tsimonq2> sudodus: it's read-only, you mount one image, and it's mounted as a loop device
[20:08] <gilir> tsimonq2, it's free software, do what you want :-) But cleary I don't have time to help on another packaging system (I saw some in the past years ...)
[20:08] <sudodus> So a read-only file system
[20:08] <tsimonq2> sudodus: yes, although it uses already existing filesystems, it doesn't roll it's own
[20:08] <tsimonq2> gilir: alright :)
[20:08] <gilir> Just saying, I tested them, I'm not so impress, and I don't think if useable for large scale of packages
[20:09] <tsimonq2> alright
[20:09] <tsimonq2> well we can talk more afterwards if you all want, but we're over time on our meeting
[20:09] <tsimonq2> thanks for coming everyone!
[20:09] <tsimonq2> #endmeeting
[20:09] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jul 20 20:09:59 2016 UTC.
[20:09] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/lubuntu-devel/2016/lubuntu-devel.2016-07-20-19.00.moin.txt
[20:10] <wxl> thx all
[20:10] <tsimonq2> wxl: could you add 14.04.5 to the topic, maybe? :)
[20:10] <gilir> arf, I miss the topic about yakkety seed changes :-/
[20:11] <gilir> anyway, I'll send a mail about this
[20:11] <tsimonq2> alright gilir
[20:12] <gilir> tsimonq2, about 14.04.5, it fails to build sometime ago, you probably want to check if lubuntu-desktop is still installable on trusty
[20:13] <sudodus> I can test that too (on a mini text system).
[20:13] <gilir> I can't stay longer, sorry :-/ thanks tsimonq2 for the meeting :-)
[20:13] <tsimonq2> :)
[20:15] <sudodus> tsimonq2: is it time for a post-meeting talk about mkusb packaging now?
[20:15] <tsimonq2> sure :)
[20:16] <tsimonq2> sudodus: so you want the mkusb package in Debian/Ubuntu ?
[20:17] <sudodus> Well, in what way would it be better than in a Launchpad PPA? - easier for beginners to install ...
[20:18] <tsimonq2> sudodus: PPAs are somewhat unsupported
[20:18] <sudodus> I have read about the complicated route to an official debian/ubuntu package.
[20:18] <tsimonq2> and i can help with that
[20:18] <tsimonq2> *I
[20:19] <tsimonq2> sudodus: if you tell me where the source code is, I can debianify it, then I'll get it uploaded to Debian Unstable
[20:19] <tsimonq2> sudodus: it will then travel down to Ubuntu
[20:19] <sudodus> That's great - I enjoy programming and testing, but I'm not good at getting official or bureaucratic things working.
[20:19] <tsimonq2> alright :)
[20:20] <tsimonq2> so where is the source code?
[20:20] <sudodus> I think you might get it via two sources, ppa:mkusb/ppa and Phill's server
[20:21] <tsimonq2> sudodus: I mean, the source code
[20:21] <tsimonq2> where is it developerd?
[20:21] <tsimonq2> *developed
[20:21] <sudodus> http://phillw.net/isos/linux-tools/mkusb/
[20:22] <tsimonq2> so that is where it is developed?
[20:23] <sudodus> There is no compiled code, only bash shellscripts - I have my own directories with help scripts in my computer
[20:23] <tsimonq2> alright :)
[20:23] <tsimonq2> sudodus: you should really think about learning a version control system such as Git :)
[20:24] <sudodus> but the ppa contains the package, I would think in principle like you would use for an official repository
[20:25] <sudodus> Maybe that would help :-)
[20:25] <sudodus> I mean git.
[20:25] <agaida> is mkusb not this special alias cat *.iso > /dev/$foo ? :P
[20:25] <agaida> hi sudodus tsimonq2
[20:26] <tsimonq2> o/ agaida
[20:26] <sudodus> hi agaida
[20:28] <sudodus> Originally mkusb was only using dd under the hood. The important task is to wrap security around dd. Later on I added tools to wipe drives and create new partition tables and file system, and also a method to create persistent live drives. So it is a big shellscript (but still only bash).
[20:30] <sudodus> tsimonq2: Anyway, what are the steps that you can help me along?
[20:30] <tsimonq2> sudodus: I'll make sure the debian files are compliant with the standards, I'll make sure it builds fine, then I'll ask a Debian Developer to upload it
[20:31] <tsimonq2> sudodus: then all you have to do is wait for the package to get down to Yakkety
[20:32] <tsimonq2> sudodus: in the meantime, since you have a PPA, I'll give you instructions for getting it into your PPA
[20:32]  * agaida think the release name will begin with a Z
[20:32] <sudodus> Sounds nice :-) ButI guess you will ask question along the path. I will try to reply and supply what you need.
[20:32] <tsimonq2> in fact sudodus, I just applied to be in the mkusb team
[20:33] <tsimonq2> sudodus: could you please approve me? :)
[20:36] <sudodus> Done
[20:37] <tsimonq2> great
[20:37] <lynorian> sudodus, does mkusb have a way to say you have an install disk but want to make it back into a mass storage device through new partition table and then putting a partition on it with security?
[20:38] <sudodus> If you have not done it, I suggest that you install mkusb into your Lubuntu system according to this link
[20:38] <sudodus> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/mkusb#Quick_start_manual_and_mkusb_PPA
[20:39] <sudodus> and get used to it.
[20:40] <sudodus> No, but it can do it (overwrite whatever is on the drive). It can also fix issues with GPT, and the backup table at the tail end of the drive
[20:46] <sudodus> tsimonq2: You are silent. Do you need more fast feedback now, or can I leave this chat? We can always send eemails, and when you want, when can start chatting again at this channel.
[20:46] <tsimonq2> sudodus: I'm working :)
[20:46] <tsimonq2> sudodus: I'll give you feedback via email soon if you wish
[20:47] <sudodus> Thanks :-)
[21:27] <tsimonq2> wxl: aaaaaand we have a hardware tester! \o/
[21:28] <wxl> whoozat?
[21:29] <tsimonq2> wxl: look on lubuntu-devel list
[21:29] <wxl> oh ian? i kind of tend to ignore his emails as i do fritz'. not to be mean, but theere's always so much detail, i'm not sure what the point is half the time.
[21:30] <tsimonq2> wxl: well tl;dr he tested and it works fine :P
[21:32] <wxl> well that's ghood
[21:36] <wxl> tsimonq2: nio got at the issue i have
[21:37] <tsimonq2> aha
[21:37] <wxl> testing without docuemted results is pretty much useless
[21:38] <wxl> s/\(documented\)/formally \1/
[21:38] <tsimonq2> I see
[21:38] <wxl> i've sung this same refrain over and over and there are certain folks who just seem to either ignore it or not get it
[21:40] <tsimonq2> I see
[21:41] <wxl> going forward that's an area of potential improvement
[21:41] <wxl> whether it be in how we communicate it or documenation or i don't know what
[21:41] <tsimonq2> wxl: trying something over and over expecting different results is insanity
[21:42] <tsimonq2> wxl: if you really want it to stop, enforce it
[21:42] <wxl> that's why i said area of potential improvement
[21:42] <tsimonq2> I see
[21:42] <wxl> there's nothing to enforce that will result in positive results
[21:42] <wxl> i can say "you're going to get banned from the list unless your testing ends up documented formally on the tracker as per our instructions"
[21:42] <wxl> in which case the response will likely be "ok, well, i'll stop testing then"
[21:43] <wxl> what we need is to convert the interest and effort into formally documented results
[21:43] <wxl> perhaps the task seems too daunting?
[21:43] <wxl> instructions need help?
[21:43] <wxl> like i said, i don't knwo
[21:43] <tsimonq2> no, I would send them a private email saying something like this, "I really really want you to keep testing, you are a great tester, but could you please report your results in the appropriate place as well as posting on the mailing list?"
[21:44] <tsimonq2> why do you assume that enforcement is negative?
[21:44] <wxl> what you're talking about is encouragement not enforcement
[21:45] <tsimonq2> then let's exersize encouragement
[21:45] <tsimonq2> I guess, why be negative? why use an iron hammer?
[21:45] <wxl> yeah i don't want to be
[21:45] <wxl> that's what i'm saying
[21:45] <wxl> it won't help
[21:45] <wxl> of course neither will ignoring and that's mostly what i've resolved to do XD
[21:47] <tsimonq2> I'll say something to them next time
[21:47] <wxl> i guess we'll see if he follows nio's advice..
[21:47] <tsimonq2> yep
[21:48] <tsimonq2> meanwhile I'm packaging mkusb and getting it ready for Debian
[21:48] <wxl> wow
[21:48] <wxl> so you know the whole process of packaging for Debian and then getting it in Ubuntu?
[21:48] <tsimonq2> like the back of my hand
[21:49] <wxl> wow could you document it?
[21:49] <tsimonq2> well, not really, but I'm close
[21:49] <tsimonq2> well there's docs all over
[21:49] <wxl> yeah and i think that's the problem
[21:49] <wxl> they're all over
[21:49] <wxl> not in one place
[21:50] <tsimonq2> I see
[21:50] <wxl> imagine if you had to read the entirety of the rsync manpage across several unlinked manpages
[21:52] <tsimonq2> yeah :P
[21:52] <tsimonq2> wxl: I'll make a blog post
[21:53] <wxl> yes please
[21:53] <tsimonq2> wxl: do you know what the check-all-the-things package is?
[21:53] <tsimonq2> XD
[21:53] <wxl> no but it sounds nice!
[21:54] <tsimonq2> it literally goes through and picks your package apart
[21:54] <wxl> see what i'm saying
[21:54] <wxl> i haven't even seen this mentioned before
[21:54] <wxl> although it's proabably on SOME page somewhere
[21:54] <tsimonq2> yeah
[21:57] <tsimonq2> *gasp* git cherry-pick is AWESOME! :D
[22:12] <agaida> its even more awesome with the -n switch