=== stuart is now known as Guest56296 === salem_ is now known as _salem === chihchun_afk is now known as chihchun === ecloud_wfh is now known as ecloud [09:29] My M10 won't output to HDMI... Any ideas? [09:30] Tested with two different cables, a computer monitor, and a tv [10:07] SebthreeBQM10HD: hey, do you need anything? [10:12] faenil, THAT [10:12] W [10:12] was yestetday [10:12] but converg [10:12] SebthreeBQM10HD: I know...but I didn't see the msg yesterday ;) [10:13] e is looking betteer now going by videos and maybe I will buy a Microsoft display adapter soon [10:14] faenil, what is a good bluetooh mouse to get? [10:14] the ones I have seen all have looked a bit uh, I bough a cheap one even that didn' seem to work [10:14] Do I need twrp to install ubuntu touch on an android meizu pro 5? [10:14] SebthreeBQM10HD: mmm I don't know, we have a few standard bluetooth mice [10:15] faenil, we as in? [10:15] SebthreeBQM10HD: Design Team at Canonical. I am an engineer in that team [10:15] (I know, it sounds weird :D ) [10:15] bitanarchy, what's twrp? [10:16] it's a boot recovery image [10:16] faenil, oh your actsaully from the design team interesting [10:16] SebthreeBQM10HD: yeah, but I'm not a designer :) [10:16] something like clockworkmod [10:16] faenil, enginner in a desing eam though, what does that mean ? [10:16] bitanarchy: http://askubuntu.com/questions/767323/how-to-install-ubuntu-on-meizu-pro-5-that-was-originally-with-android [10:17] faenil, I should get a mouse that works with hte m10. I bought a cheap toner one from Amazon but that didn't seem to work [10:17] SebthreeBQM10HD: I do prototypes for designers to test their ideas. Plus I work on the UI Toolkti [10:17] Toolkit* [10:17] you see diffent mouses in different videos etc to [10:17] want a cheap one that works really [10:17] Logitech can be expensive [10:17] it's a mouse! [10:17] SebthreeBQM10HD: I could tell you the one I have here, I think it's just a standard bt mouse, nothing fancy [10:18] this k480 is nice :). I seen three Logitech ones, but the look he colours I don't seem to like much [10:18] which mouse is that? [10:19] * SebthreeBQM10HD is thinking of doing another order on Amazon soon ( I don't have Prime), for the wirees display adapter, and another blue tooth mouse that hopefulliy works this time another trackpad, and even the white colour of the k480 as well I got the black [10:19] that's a nice keyboard dock thing with a stand for sure [10:20] SebthreeBQM10HD: http://ijetech.com/0884/ [10:20] links don't work on Ubuntu touch yet, but soon it seems I Mean in Libertine [10:20] SebthreeBQM10HD: and Logitech K480 as keyboards [10:20] is that where you bought from as well, or just a page about it [10:20] just a pge [10:20] don't know where it was bought from [10:21] faenil, yep I got the black k480 as well and been using :), going to buy the white one as well [10:21] but I have never had a non-working mouse honestly [10:21] the ones I tried all worked [10:21] (I haven't tried that many) [10:21] well thata TONER ONE hmm [10:21] I think more for Windows or something [10:22] faenil, in other news I wanted to organise an event for Linux Presentation Day in October really [10:23] oh cool :) [10:23] which would mean only about three months to acusally organise [10:23] if can get a venue [10:23] faenil, we had one with my LUG in 2014, but it idnd't quite get the peope they wanted, got someone else who would be interested now in organisng/helping, unforunatly still no reply from the venue I wanted hmm [10:23] no venue, no event [10:24] right... [10:24] faenil, ideally I wanted to be abl eto go to my LUG on Saturday and be like, oh you kinow that idea popped up last week on the list, but I already got a venue if going to do it [10:24] heh :) [10:25] there will be certain people there who would be reluctant to doing anything when it comes to another event who helped out last time, or one guy in particular I am thinking [10:25] espeically with much less time as well to orgnaise something [10:26] faenil, but yah can then do some Desktop LInux stuff, but also mobile even :D [10:26] show like Ubuntu convergence :D [10:26] and things like that [10:26] even [10:26] yeah, that would be nice [10:26] and have Creative COMMONS stuff in there to :) [10:27] faenil, I want something a bit bigger than last time to, but yes venue hmm [10:27] plus there's currently no sponsership or funding to actsually rent something as well! [10:27] that would be difficult to try and ge I expect as well [10:28] faenil, if you look at http://linux-presentation-day nice idea and all, but I don't think they help at all with funding for these events, they can mybe help find a venue though [10:28] http://linux-presentation-day.org [10:28] Is ubuntu-device-flash only available on ununtu? [10:28] * ubuntu [10:28] faenil, menions maybe just having like a smalll event with a few computers even it seems, but still got to have some where to go to even that, and someone a bit more proper i gusss than just a pub [10:29] bitanarchy: I think so, at the moment. You could try building the source though, or maybe just running the binary on your distro is enough, as long as you have the deps. Not sure though [10:29] for even that, and somewher a bit more proper correcting [10:30] bitanarchy: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/goget-ubuntu-touch/trunk/files [10:30] SebthreeBQM10HD: yeah...no idea [10:31] faenil, so what do you do in the design team, but not as a designer? have you done any events as well in general ? [10:31] SebthreeBQM10HD: as I said above, I do prototypes for designers, so that they can see how their designs look like. Plus I work on the Ubuntu UI Toolkit, the UI components that you use to develop applications [10:32] what kind of prototypes ? [10:32] what you mean by that really? [10:32] like, say they want to add a feature to...I don't know, scopes [10:32] hey SebthreeBQM10HD you can always consider https://community.ubuntu.com/help-information/funding/ [10:32] a new view that shows new stuff [10:33] bregma, you mean with Ubuntu/Canonical helping to fund an event ? [10:33] well, it's the Ubuntu Community, but yeah [10:33] then I implement that as quickly as possible, a prototype, a rough version to give them an idea of how it actually would be [10:33] there's a process, and no guarantee [10:33] bregma, I was actually vaguelly thinking maybe Ubuntu/Canonical could help fund a bit or something [10:34] bregma, it woudn't have to be all Ubuntu though ? [10:34] then it goes through to the engineering teams owning that project to be refined and rewritten/completed [10:34] bregma, could still have some other distros in there to for example ? [10:34] SebthreeBQM10HD, I don't know, apply and see, nothing to lose at any rate [10:35] I would be trying to get a load of 16.04 Dvd'S THOUGH [10:35] for free [10:35] lp [10:35] bregma, last time I applied for stuff, and jono sent me a load of stuf for free :) [10:35] or got ir arranged I MEAN [10:35] SebthreeBQM10HD: talk to popey or mhall119 they should be able to point you in the general direction of anything community related [10:36] DVD's, pens, usb rings [10:36] I mean key rings [10:36] davmor2, yeah indeed [10:37] go through the community donations process [10:37] the link bregma gave ? [10:37] see knew they'd know [10:37] think so [10:37] am mbile atm [10:37] and on holiday [10:38] if you highlight their names three times they appear in you mirror [10:38] bregma, davmor2 bregma faenil ok thanks [10:38] bregma, h eh [10:38] * popey doesnt like mirrors [10:38] and you say that just as I uhmm [10:38] did that high light hting of all names :D [10:38] just before I [10:38] davmor2: do you know unav status? i submitted for qa [10:38] while i am here [10:39] popey: haven't a clue I'm on desktop for 16.04.1 [10:39] ok [10:39] jibel: ? ^ [10:39] oh isn't o;en source great, for events as well, can get people from else whre to help in certain ways :) [10:40] popey: looking at it, it is second in the queue so should be done today or tomorrow [10:40] and for the software itself, Ubuntu touch or smething else, amazing really how it's made, people from differnet places getting together etc [10:40] thanks Internet :D [10:41] :) [10:45] davmor2: thanks [10:50] popey, for the Wireless Display adaptar, is it just the standard Microsoft v2 one? yeah I guess so, thinking of buying that quite soon since convergence looks like will be quite interesting with the tablet etc [10:56] SebthreeBQM10HD: if you can get v1 that is the one that most people are working with so it is more stable [10:57] davmor2, oh [10:57] davmor2, more stable how so? [10:57] and Amazon seemed to have both versions [10:58] * SebthreeBQM10HD will buy from Amazon again some things, even though doesn't have prime [10:58] SebthreeBQM10HD: more people using it so more people testing it and reporting bugs against it etc [10:58] I see yeah, and indeed newer isn't always better [10:58] or depending on for what going to do [10:59] * SebthreeBQM10HD might buy both versions, but probably only really need one :D [11:00] with ota 12 expected next week in the stable [11:00] and after seeing a video or two as well, I guess it's basically time to buy [11:01] davmor2, the thing itself, you just connect it to the back of a tv or monitor? but it needs a hdmi port ? [11:01] the MS dongle uses a usb and hdmi port on the tv/monitor [11:02] SebthreeBQM10HD, you plug it in to the TV's HDMI port and it gets powered off the TV's USB port [11:02] I was surprised to discover my TV had a USB port [11:02] hmmm not sure if our newer samsung tv has a usb port, I think it might [11:02] evidently it's a power-only port for just this purpose [11:02] with a monitor though that would need a usb port as well the monitor ? [11:02] SebthreeBQM10HD: most do [11:03] rather old tv's won't have usb ports though [11:03] SebthreeBQM10HD: the dongle always need usb for power and hdim for display [11:04] SebthreeBQM10HD: most flat panels with 1080p displays will have usb and hdmi [11:04] davmor2, bregma as dev's of Ubuntu touch, but personally :D, even if not quite ready properly for say general public type pople, do you think things like convergence for example and I guess libertine things even and things like that, would all be interesting to show as part of an event in October? an event that's meant to get people intersted in Linux and Creative Commons even. hopfully I can organise a [11:04] nd have such an event hmm [11:06] it's always a fun demo === chihchun is now known as chihchun_afk [11:06] davmor2, yeah that's what I am thinking, things really have changed since 2014, I have more interesgting tech now :D [11:07] * SebthreeBQM10HD waits for nex dock that will be good at an event as well [11:10] davmor2, have you got the ms adapater "? [11:10] SebthreeBQM10HD: I do [11:10] and a device for thaI gues then [11:10] ? [11:10] nice [11:10] well of course you got devices or would think so, your a dev :D [11:11] Hi, I have some issues with my Ubuntu Phone. I can't playback most of imported videos, even if codecs seem to be installed. And if the file is on the external SD card the mediaplayer seem to copy the file to the local drive. [11:11] I'm not a dev, I'm QA I test the stuff before it kills kittens ;) [11:12] davmor2, yeah QA [11:12] bregma, h eh wasn't it devmor2 who has to mainly accept a lot of your code for libertine etc, before it gets in there? [11:13] I can't even playback camaera recorded videos (2GB), too. How can I fix those issues? [11:13] t-ask: works fine here [11:13] t-ask: hmm wonder if there is a size limit most of mine are smaller than 2Gb [11:13] If I donwload Youtube videos with youtube-dl eg., copy them over, Mediaplayer or Galery doesn't start it [11:14] Even if thumbs of the viedos ar shown, really strange [11:14] t-ask: yeah that is most like in the wrong format [11:14] is mp4 not mp4? [11:15] t-ask: hmm mp4 should be fine it's what mine are [11:15] And why does the medaiplayer seem to copy the file over to local drive, before playback... I guess here, because it take minutes before a workking video works [11:16] t-ask: what version of touch are you on? [11:16] t-ask: I think that was a bug that got fixed [11:17] OTA-11 [11:17] auto-download for updates seem not to work for apps [11:18] I had to check for updates right now [11:18] Wifi is on and option is checked too [11:18] But my main issue is vidoe playback and memory consumprion [11:19] latest update: 01/06/2016 [11:20] t-ask: yeah ota-12 I think will address some of your issues that should be out soon [11:21] That would be really nice. [11:22] Opening videos is just ab bit odd. Really slow that way and I don't understand why Gallery is even provided as alternative playback option. [11:22] * SebthreeBQM10HD waits for clickable links in libertine stuff in uh [11:22] the on screen keyboard working will be nice :) [11:22] Would be nice of opening a mp4 eg just opens the mediaplayer whichout asking for other options [11:23] OTA release cycle is 6 weeks or? [11:24] t-ask, yes every six weeks or so, sometimes delayed a bit so [11:24] sure, ok, then I hope this will be fixed then. I really enjoy that phone [11:25] t-ask, for example ota 12 was going to be released yeserday, but i think afer already being pushed back a bit anyway [11:25] which phone? [11:25] Will it be possible to speed up the loading time of the phone, system settings, too? [11:25] QG Aquaris 4.5 I think (the small one) [11:25] oh the first phone [11:25] right [11:25] bq 4.5 [11:26] I got one but it stays on a old version now [11:26] or for now as in a long time [11:26] sine I got he mx 4 and tablet as well so [11:26] you don't have OTA-11 then? [11:27] t-ask, it's stil a verion fro some time lst year before July on the 4.5, since I thought I had lost that phone, turned up earlier this yaer in this room so :d [11:27] SebthreeBQM10HD: maybe you could test playback of big videos got via youtube-dl from youtube (on SD) [11:27] t-ask, I bought the Meizu MX 4 last year as well, so that became my phone :) [11:27] t-ask, nah the version on my 4.5 is just to old to help you with that, since it's still a version based on Ubuntu 14.10 [11:28] pluss i have no big videos on there [11:28] hehe, it was more to confirm my issues,.. but if those issues will be fixed with OTA-12 I will be happe [11:28] t-ask, got a big video on my mx 4 though, which meaning to take off haven't yet, not updated that phone since like decmeber 2015, no october or os even, didn't want to llose data maybe so. yeah I need to sort that out [11:29] t-ask, my tablet is reasoanbly up to date though. ota 10, meaning to update to 0ta 11 this week, and then i'll do 12 very soon next week :) [11:29] or if I got the wireless display adapater before then I Guess or whatever :D [11:29] OK, then I will just wait for OTA12 [11:30] t-ask, yes it's impressive stuff [11:30] and it improves eveyry six weeks or so [11:30] well in dev in that time, but then the imporements come as stable updates every six weeks or so :) [11:30] new featurse get added in here and there as well etc proper ones [11:31] t-ask, have you seen the wireless convergnece videos? [11:31] Then I have other questions regarding the tablet. I want to buy it if I could run Thunderbird in Desktop mode. Is this possible and/or where can I check which Ubuntu packages I can install with the tablet [11:31] t-ask, and no the 4.5 won't be able to do that [11:32] t-ask, there's no thunderbird by default on the tablet, however there's all the native programs, and then the demo of Libertine stuff, so Firefox, Gimp, Gedit, Libre Office [11:32] t-ask, there is a like way to hack it or kind of thing to add in other programs such as Thunderbird, however the native email client dekko is actsaully rather good on Ubuntu touch anyway so :) [11:33] in the future it will be much easier to install and more offically other ARM based programs so THunderbird, vlc, and what not, but that won't be for at least another few months or so I expect [11:34] t-ask, I thought I wanted Thunderbird on the tablet myself, but been using this dekko for about three months now, and yes it's good :) [11:34] The thing is, the person I want to buy the tablet for, works with Gnome desktop and LOffice, Thunderbird and UTox chat quite often. So I had the idea to help that person making the current workplace mobile with the tablet [11:34] t-ask, you can add in more programs, but to like edit the libertine container etc, to do that at the moment [11:34] you can encrypt emails, with the build in one too? [11:35] no don't think dekko has encryption [11:35] ony or passwords sure, but not emails them selves [11:35] t-ask, just buy one, or for yourself anyway at first, trust me it's a nice device the tablet :) [11:35] worth the buy [11:35] if you like the 4.5 [11:35] so the apps are runnning in LXC containers? [11:35] well that's a much nicer device [11:36] t-ask, yeah bregma for example can tell you lots more about that if he's around [11:36] t-ask, in fact the tablet is so nice that [11:37] no need, I just need to know if I could run that tablet like a "normal" ubuntu distro [11:37] t-ask, as planned I bought the cheaper tablet first the cheaper version of the two, partly since the price differnet when buying as well etc, and money what had and not had, but ys going to buy the full hd one as well later on in the year that's the plan [11:37] very nice device :) [11:38] more so with a logitech k480 bluetooh keyboard with it's stand thing for hte tablet, connected to it for example :) [11:38] t-ask, can you use the tablet like an Ubuntu desktop, well sure and that's where things are heading in certain was [11:38] ways [11:38] so convergence and also this libertine thing for example [11:38] I need remote access to that tablet then and I want to run Thunderbird + Syncthing [11:39] if that is currently "too hacky" I better wait [11:40] That person is not around. I have to do all staps remotely and I doubt. that this person is able to "hack" into anything [11:41] So, my plan was to buy it, then install syncthing, thunderbird and maybe utox, then send it to that person. Then remotely apt-get update the tablet if needed [11:41] t-ask, however tablets have battires and mine ran out [11:42] but back now [11:42] t-ask, it does have a good battery life [11:42] you disconnected? [11:42] as I wrote something about my plan [11:42] t-ask, you can probaly remote connect using ssh via the termial and things like that, sure, but davmor2 etc can probably help you better with details [11:42] I don't know much about that one [11:42] and [11:43] I got stuf to do [11:43] t-ask, nearly kept it off, but nah wanted to come back and say the above :d. you are in the right channel though :) [11:43] t-ask, maybe there's another question I can help with quick though [11:43] ok, so I assume. I better wait with my plan buying it for now [11:44] t-ask, no in many ways it is like an Ubuntu desktop just a little differnet [11:44] Does it sync automatically a home directory on another linux desktop system? [11:44] liek syncthing does [11:46] t-ask, Thunderbird runs OK under Libertine on the tablet, I don't know about the other software you mentioned [11:47] t-ask, there's a terminal app that you can install from the app store, and with that, you should be able to do most of the things or kind of things you can do on a normal ubuntu desktop in the terminal, from using ssh and what not [11:47] I use ssh to do most work on the tablet except touching the screen (because I have a really good wired keyboard on my workstation), so it's definitely a supported way of remotely supporting someone [11:48] https://syncthing.net/ is a really convenient sync tool to sync folders between several devices.. runs so well, I would recommend having this on the tablet by default [11:48] ok [11:49] I synced five devices, even with windows for months now. It is really perfect [11:49] I ish, Syncthing would run in my phone too [11:49] * SebthreeBQM10HD goes away [11:49] afk [11:50] t-ask, good luck and trust me buy the tablet you'll find it nice and not regret it :) [11:50] for yourself that is [11:50] and possibly your friend to yes [11:50] anyways. Thunderbird with encryption + Syncthing and any Tox cleint would be nice to have for the tablet. Then I could recommendh the tablet to several friends, even the windows guys [11:53] I assume, then I have nothing to maintainance anymore. As I tested Syncthing with desktop and notebook devices before. If the Tablet then just syncs itself with the person's desktop - perfect [11:53] t-ask, syncthing is not available for Ubuntu Touch (it's available in Ubuntu "yakkety yak", which will become 16.10) [11:54] but if you package it as a click, you can upload it to the store and it will be available on the tablet [11:54] bregma: I think, I can't because I'm not a dev [11:55] well, that can be fixed ;) [11:55] or maybe you can bribe someone [11:56] Well, life doesn't allow me any oth those, currently [11:56] looking at it, there's no technical reason it wouldn't run on the tablet, someone just has to package it up [11:57] would it then run on the phone, too? [11:57] it's all the same software [11:57] I remeber asking the syncthing devs some weeks ago, but none of them had a Ubuntu Phone [11:57] phone, tablet, desktop.... that's convergence [11:59] The beauty with syncthing is, painless and no file conflicts anymore. Syncthing does it al itself. That's why it would be perfect for syncing certain folders around desktop, notebooks, tablets and phone. [12:03] anyways, I would need a better introduction to do packaging myself in person. It is for me too difficult to learn all this by reading just a howto. I have too many questions around that, I assume. But finding a dev around my place, who would spend time helping me learning that stuff is almost zero :( [12:04] Maybe there is an option to lend a ubuntu phone to devs who are able to repackage their software?! === chihchun_afk is now known as chihchun [12:33] Syncthing already works fine on ubunt touch [12:33] Wouldn't be any good as an 'app' at the moment though, because they lose network connection as soon as you switch apps [12:35] That means it wouldn't be possible to install a syncthing daemon via app installment [12:35] Is there any good read on how to iinstall syncthing on the tablet then? [12:36] I mean, I'm familiar with the 'old' apt-get process, but is it the same for click packages? [12:38] no it's not the same, and installing packages with apt on the phone into the root partition is strongly discouraged [12:40] t-ask: https://swalladge.id.au/posts/2016-07-11-syncthing-ubuntu-touch.html <-- i actually wrote a short tutorial on how to install it [12:41] and yeah, using apt-get to install things system wide ends badly with ubuntu-touch... [12:42] anything installed in writable places (such as your home directory) works fine though [12:42] (i'm not that familiar with click or snappy packages either...) [12:45] well, you could install it as a click package through the open store i guess, and have the daemon bits work as expected; but then you're installing unsigned packages which don't conform entirely to the security model of ubuntu, too [12:46] (also, i really dislike that it's called the "open" store, mzanetti :) [12:47] dobey what would you call it? [12:47] swalladge: that looks interesting. Can I try this with my Aquarius 4.5, too? [12:47] matv1: i don't know. alternate. sidecart. something more clever, and which doesn't imply the main store is somehow "closed" [12:48] don't see why not - it's the same system :) As long as you download syncthing for the correct arch [12:48] (arm64 or 32) [12:48] dobey: sure, I would prefer installing an official app. Even better, becasue then I can give other persons just the advice installing the syncthing app and they are fine [12:48] dobey, do you :) [12:49] mzanetti: yes, calling it "open" implies the main store is somehow not at all open. [12:49] dobey, is that wrong? [12:49] that seems quite matching to me [12:50] dobey, it's an app store where apps are rejected at canonical's liking, where there is no link between binary and code... [12:51] it's still great we have it, but open is totally not the word for it [12:51] could call it staging-store ;) [12:51] mzanetti: i think that's an incorrect statement [12:52] t-ask: no, we have staging already :) [12:52] this isn't for staging/testing. it's for side loading apps from a different server which do not conform to Ubuntu's phone/tablet security policies [12:53] is it camparable to f-droid ? [12:53] somewhat === _salem is now known as salem_ [12:55] dobey an app not being able to background proces, has nothing to do with security [12:56] ^ hopefully background process support will be added - i mean you currently can't even be notified of new emails without opening the email app for example [12:57] *added soon, that is [12:57] but maybe we shouldnt get into all that one again ;) [12:58] matv1: yes it does [12:58] no :) [12:59] omg here we go again :D me and my big mouth [12:59] pretty sure DoS is a security concern :) [13:00] the internet is a security concern [13:01] yes [13:03] in any case, t-ask, swalladge, I'd welcome a syncthing app in openstore [13:03] mzanetti: openstore? [13:03] there's the owncloud sync one already which does pretty much the same, could be used as a template [13:03] swalladge, https://open.uappexplorer.com/ [13:05] dobey lets let people look up the relevant threads on the mailing list for the positions in this discussion ok ;) [13:05] mzanetti: I would like to seee it as an official app, as it is working really nice and everyone I recomemnd buying an Ubuntu Touch device would be able to install it themselfs. [13:06] matv1: don't need to. [13:06] t-ask: we would all like to see a great many things as official apps :) [13:06] mzanetti: I don't know of owncloud sync. I assume it is not easy to install on Windows or android. not sure. [13:07] dobey i know you dont. I was saying others interested may feel so inclined [13:07] mzanetti: oh that looks pretty neat :) kind of looks like an f-droid for ubuntu [13:07] dobey: a well working and secure file-sync would be something essential. While I defnitely know what you mean with your remark [13:10] t-ask, not really sure how windows or android matter in this discussion [13:10] mzanetti: presumably because one would want to sync them as well [13:10] is it possible to program for ubuntu touch on another linux system (other than ubuntu)? [13:10] oh, sure, there are clients for all of them [13:11] swalladge: sure [13:11] how about archlinux? I've found a couple of relevant bits on the aur, but can't work out how to get the sdk installed [13:11] sure [13:12] install the sdk snap [13:12] or use an ubuntu vm or chroot to install/run the sdk [13:12] you don't really need the sdk anyways, but the further you go away from the official guidance, the more you are expected to be able to solve things yourself [13:13] yeah, if you're not a total linux expert, I'd really recommend an ubuntu VM [13:13] or yeah, just don't use the sdk [13:13] ah ok [13:13] * dobey uses emacs/shell [13:13] i'd still need the libraries and stuff to create clicks, etc. though right? [13:13] here's a howto I wrote before the SDK existed: http://notyetthere.org/on-manually-creating-click-packages/ [13:14] you need "click", yes [13:14] I can't find click in aur.archlinux.org [13:14] swalladge: you just need the click tool to create clicks, and the click-reviewers-tool or whatever it's called, to ensure your click passes the validation [13:15] however, worst case, you could copy the compiled binaries to a ubuntu phone, and package it up on the phone, as click is installed there [13:15] you need all the runtime stuff of course, if you want to run the thing on your PC [13:15] aha nice thanks :D [13:15] is there a snap for click? [13:16] there is work on a snap for the sdk which should include everything needed to develop apps [13:16] ok [13:20] maybe docker image? [13:22] ogra_, pitti: (sorry for duplicate notice maybe, I'm having IRC problems): I'm noticing that Touch images don't support ACLs? Like, udev devices don't let you setfacl them, and the ext4 mounts don't have the usual default mount option of 'acl' -- do you know why / where that's normally determined? [13:22] I'm most interested in udev, but will take any pointers [13:23] mterry, hmm, not sure, but dont you need kernel support for that ? [13:23] ogra_, probably -- are the Touch kernels that old? I didn't think ACL was a new thing [13:24] mterry: right, I suppose no ACL support on the fs you are trying to use it on, with that kernel [13:24] the kernels are old and their config is derived from an original android config ... so it could well be that ACL support is missing if android didnt originally use it [13:24] ogra_, pitti: Ah right... the kernel could support it, but we don't turn it on when building [13:25] the filesystems should just be ext4 [13:25] mterry: you said udev, so I suppose you want/need those on /dev, i. e. devtmpfs? [13:25] (either as loop mounted img files or as real ext4 partitions) [13:25] ogra_, yeah. I could remount the filesystems with acl flag maybe, but it's missing from the default mount options (set presumably when the filesystem is created -- normal desktop filesystems have default flags for acl, but Touch doesn't) [13:25] pitti, right [13:25] mterry: try something like "sudo setfacl -m u:www-data:w /dev/zero" and see if that fails? [13:26] pitti, it does [13:26] that would be something you need to fix in the initrd [13:26] pitti, operation not supported [13:26] devtmpfs without acl, yay [13:26] we generate fstab during boot in the initrd [13:26] so any generic mount options need to go into that code [13:27] ogra_, ok. I may leave that alone for now (I'm more worried about no acl in devtmpfs), but when / if I need acl for ext4 too, that's where I'll start. Thanks :) [13:27] :) === chihchun is now known as chihchun_afk [13:27] initramfs-tools-ubuntu-touch is the package that carries the code [13:27] pitti, I assume devtmpfs is all in-kernel? And that ACL support is not super configurable (i.e. if the kernel had it, it would turn it on) [13:28] ogra_, ah cool, another package I'll squirrel away in my notes :) [13:28] mterry: yes, /dev has been populated by the kernel (devtmpfs) for many years [13:28] I don't see a CONFIG_*_ACL for it [13:29] oh, could be CONFIG_TMPFS_POSIX_ACL=y [13:29] as devtmpfs is a "magic" tmpfs [13:29] i guess the kernel team would know the exact option you need [13:29] mterry: there's a high chance that this is off? [13:29] or even CONFIG_FS_POSIX_ACL=y [13:29] pitti, yeah doc for that flag indicates it affects /dev [13:29] in general i think we should just copy all ACL options from the generic kernel though [13:30] to have similar behaviour in the end [13:30] pitti, ogra_: Agreed. OK. I'll go talk to kernel folks then [13:30] * mterry looks up who manages the touch kernel [13:30] do we even have this option to change the config? [13:31] we build the kernel, so indeed we have the ability :) [13:31] I thought on many devices we'd use the kernel as-is [13:31] (from android) [13:31] (we also patch apparmor in) [13:31] nah [13:31] not as is ... [13:31] it is pretty ubuntuized [13:31]