[00:13] <memguy> does anybody know what the difference between /dev/dri/card0 and /dev/fb0 i have used the framebuffer before but i never used the /dev/dri/card0 before from the looks of it they both uses the same LKM i915
[00:13] <memguy> to drive it
[00:29] <nacc> memguy: well, i mean one is a framebuffer and one is a direct rendering interface (different semantics)
[00:31] <memguy> yeah but i am wondering what one does over the other or are they the equivalent of  just create a different name for the same major and minor number... i was wondering the difference in operations or features
[00:31] <nacc> memguy: welll, they are different major and minor numbers?
[00:31] <nacc> memguy: did you mean to ask in #ubuntu, btw; it's really a better question for ##linux
[00:31] <memguy> so i would imagine different internal functions are called that have different code
[00:32] <memguy> Do you know of any sample code that uses dri/card0 device  with its ioctls
[00:34] <daftykins> sounds like an ace question for #linux
[04:59] <memguy> curious is there a package to apt-get for make for the bsd makefiles not gnu make?
[04:59] <daftykins> why not search and see?
[05:00] <daftykins> also that's a support question, which as per topic is not really on here
[05:32] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[05:33] <daftykins> hello stranger :)
[05:33] <Bashing-om> No longer holding my attention - slow - .. going horizontal for the duration . later .
[05:45] <lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
[05:45] <lotuspsychje> all ok with you?
[05:46] <daftykins> yeah not bad cheers :) getting by as always
[05:46] <daftykins> still on the fast track to becoming a top chef? :)
[05:46] <lotuspsychje> haha
[05:47] <lotuspsychje> im very needed in the kitchen
[05:47] <lotuspsychje> a few of co-workers already quitting
[05:48] <lotuspsychje> but in september i need less hours, so i can focus in my business aswell
[05:51] <daftykins> ah har, september is go time
[05:52] <lotuspsychje> i hope
[05:54] <daftykins> lotuspsychje: would you mind typing out your address to me in PM again, just having trouble reading it from the envelope and still want to gift you some fudge :>
[05:54] <lotuspsychje> oh sure
[05:55] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: did you have uncle jobs again recently?
[05:56] <daftykins> nah nothing since i found out his 20/1 ADSL2 wasn't fast enough to host OpenVPN
[05:56] <daftykins> i got given a few old PCs to fix up though, got the best ones on a local trade site for sale now
[05:56] <daftykins> i'll PM you the link for a glance ;)
[05:57] <lotuspsychje> cool
[05:57] <lotuspsychje> lookin good!
[05:59] <daftykins> no contacts yet sadly
[05:59] <daftykins> might have to drop the prices :> they are quite old
[05:59] <lotuspsychje> my website is getting there slowly
[05:59] <lotuspsychje> my admin has alot of work
[06:00] <lotuspsychje> http://www.lotuscomputers.be/
[06:01] <lotuspsychje> default skin to work with
[06:02] <EriC^^> heyy
[06:02] <daftykins> ooh neat :>
[06:02] <daftykins> a wild EriC^^ ! hey sir \o
[06:02] <EriC^^> hey daftykins :D
[06:03] <lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
[06:05] <lotuspsychje> have to go breakfast and work guys
[06:06] <lotuspsychje> later ; )
[06:26] <ducasse> morning, all!
[06:28] <daftykins> \o
[06:28] <ducasse> \o daftykins, still here?
[06:28] <daftykins> yep didn't even sleep XD
[06:28] <daftykins> getting in a shower now
[06:28] <ducasse> i had to get some sleep, hope my friend who didn't want a wm is gone :)
[06:37] <daftykins> XD
[06:37] <daftykins> i wish you luck!
[07:38] <ducasse> daftykins: dear god, he's back.
[07:45] <daftykins> for yours and the channels benefit, ignore :)
[07:46] <ducasse> i'm doing just that - i can hardly understand him anyway. "Nested Xserver its how?"
[07:48] <daftykins> oh dear that sounds like translator assistance for sure
[07:51] <ducasse> i don't think so, his sentences are rarely longer than four or five words.
[07:51] <daftykins> oof
[07:55] <ducasse> he's obviously been given some sort of task at work, and is now trying to get someone one irc to hand-hold him through the entire process. every time a problem is fixed he jumps straight to the next one, he doesn't even try himself.
[07:55] <ducasse> s/one irc/on irc/
[08:01] <daftykins> :(
[08:01] <daftykins> i helped someone like that once and only found out at the end, i felt bad
[08:04] <ducasse> people like that can d**n well put in a little effort themselves.
[09:25] <DJones> Just as a heads up, if people ask about why they don't get 16.04.1 offered as an upgrade yet, although the iso's & files are there, apparently the release doesn't get added to http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release for about another week until they're sure that no upgrade bugs show up
[09:33] <ducasse> ah, good to know - thanks.
[09:36] <daftykins> mmm the factoid potential is strong with this one
[10:17] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[10:23] <ducasse> morning BluesKaj
[10:24] <BluesKaj> Hi ducasse
[10:25] <BluesKaj> so what's happening today ?
[10:27] <ducasse> lots of people wanting to upgrade from 14.04 to 16.04 being disappointed :)
[10:28] <daftykins> i'm starting to develop a feeling that skipping every other LTS release can work
[10:28] <daftykins> i did 10.04 -> 14.04 - maybe i'll leave 16.04 too and just await 18.04 for my servers :)
[10:29] <daftykins> naturally i don't mean upgrades there, but clean install migrations
[10:32]  * ducasse likes xenial - especially zfs
[10:34] <daftykins> ;)
[10:35] <daftykins> still rocking hardware RAID here, but it can't address newer than 4TB disks i think so maybe there's a ZFS setup in my future
[10:35] <ducasse> zfs <3
[10:35] <ducasse> soooo nice :)
[10:36] <daftykins> folks would often say run mdadm, but the thing is, when the drama times come... when you're really in a pickle... do you want to be staring at logs and making sense of things, or do you want a lovely hardware controller holding your hand? i know what i preferred, but the time may come to venture out
[10:37] <daftykins> can't say i understand the benefits to all that snapshotting business, it seems like a box of magic to me at the moment :D
[10:38] <ducasse> it kind of _is_ magic - that's the beautiful thing :)
[10:39] <daftykins> right, i must visit someone and press a couple of power buttons
[10:39] <daftykins> it's tough work, but someone's got to do it!
[10:39] <daftykins> catch you later \o
[10:39] <ducasse> hope you get paid ;)
[10:39] <daftykins> oh i do!
[10:39] <daftykins> :D
[16:16] <nacc> why are people installing 15.10 now all of a sudden?...
[16:35] <OerHeks> nacc, that, i wondered since 15.04 went EOL, upgrding from 14.04 brings 15.10 ...
[16:36] <OerHeks> xangua too, he noticed it first
[16:41] <nacc> OerHeks: ah could be as 16.04.1 may not be rolled out yet
[16:41] <OerHeks> for some mirrors i guess
[16:42] <OerHeks> but users do funny things, because 'someone told them to'
[16:42] <nicomachus> I apparently have it here, don't know when that upgrade happened though.
[16:43] <nicomachus> I was on 16.04 yesterday. ran update and upgrade this morning but not dist-upgrade, and not I'm on 16.04.1
[16:43] <nacc> nicomachus: yeah, the in-band update is normal
[16:43] <nacc> nicomachus: and that's just an lsb_release update, iirc
[17:01] <daftykins> ooooh man those buttons got pushed.
[17:02] <daftykins> ducasse: don't worry, everything is safe now
[17:02] <daftykins> the things are on.
[17:03] <ducasse> push all the buttons! yay! ;)
[17:03] <daftykins> \o/
[17:03] <daftykins> hey there's a song for that (not necessarily to my taste)
[17:03] <Bashing-om> Do not worry about the horses, just load the wagon .
[17:03] <ducasse> daftykins: have you ever heard of andrej nebb?
[17:03] <daftykins> ducasse: no sir
[17:04] <ducasse> daftykins: he dropped a piano from 30m in oslo, because "he wanted to hear all the notes at once"
[17:04] <daftykins> ah har
[17:04] <ducasse> a proper artist, imo :)
[17:04] <daftykins> are you getting similar users in #ubuntu today?
[17:05] <ducasse> no, it's too hot for me to worry about them. i just drink tea and go somewhere else for a while :)
[17:07] <ducasse> i'm prepping my zfs server for the upgrade to 16.04, i'm _really_ nervous about it not handling it well.
[17:07] <daftykins> now that is a skill i could never develop
[17:07] <daftykins> sudo walk-away
[17:08] <ducasse> some of them you can spot from a mile off.
[17:08] <daftykins> hehe, could you take a clonezilla image so you can revert in case bad things happen?
[17:08] <ducasse> i'm basically doing a reinstall, the root disks smart status isn't entirely kosher.
[17:10] <ducasse> it also doubles as mail server, so i'm kind of dependent on it not being down for long.
[17:10] <daftykins> ooh-err
[17:10] <daftykins> yay google apps :>
[17:10] <ducasse> i'm too paranoid :)
[17:11] <ducasse> not really, i just like having the control over things i depend on.
[17:12] <tsimonq2> ^
[17:12]  * tsimonq2 hides
[17:24] <daftykins> that's fair enough
[17:29] <ducasse> daftykins: big job today, or just power-cycling? :)
[17:31] <Bashing-om> I am going to powr cycle - finish my nap - be back here soon as the nap is completed :)
[17:31] <daftykins> hehe, well it's a wealthy guy so i go up there for small things and often find other things, the first was powering up two NASs, then a 14.04 file server didn't come back after reboot - very curious problem
[17:32] <daftykins> Bashing-om: :D enjoy
[17:32] <daftykins> it has its' network interface up and configured with a static IP, everything - it just won't send or receive packets
[17:32] <ducasse> odd.
[17:35] <daftykins> this server used to have the very same identical motherboard, but with one little issue... no OS could read the MAC address for its' onboard LAN adapter, so they would randomise one on boot
[17:36] <daftykins> i might have hardcoded it at some point to stop making the router think infinite devices kept being registered :D not sure, haven't dug into it yet as i just jab ctrl+alt+del and it comes back
[17:41] <ducasse> i certainly would have hardcoded it in that situation, seems like a reasonable thing to do. the poor router might become terribly confused otherwise :)
[17:43] <nicomachus> Dell has some pretty good laptop deals right now: http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-m7710-workstation/pd
[17:43] <nicomachus> savings up to $350k!
[17:46] <ducasse> hehe - nice laptop, but probably not worth 652k dollars :)
[17:52] <daftykins> ducasse: :D i could even read the real one from inside the BIOS o0 very strange situation
[17:57] <ducasse> daftykins: "firmwares do the darndest things"? :)
[18:03] <daftykins> yep! annoyingly it was on the latest and last released version too, so i couldn't even update and hope
[18:04] <ducasse> that _is_ annoying. manufacturers should be forced to provide updates for the lifetime of a device...
[18:05] <daftykins> it's all good though, we're talking LGA775 there, we had an identical board in the secretary's system until i upgraded that to a haswell i3, so when the board died for good i just did a direct swap
[18:07] <ducasse> ah, if they're that old it's understandable :)
[18:11] <daftykins> it actually died when i went to change the CMOS battery, no joke
[18:11] <daftykins> popped it out, put the new one in... never POST'd again
[18:11] <daftykins> :D
[18:11] <ducasse> sensitive board :)
[18:43] <nacc> tgm4883: quick puppet question: what's the syntax, if there is one, for me to query what puppet thinks the current 'service' provider is?
[18:43]  * daftykins always pictures punch and judy
[18:44] <nacc> daftykins: :)
[18:44] <tgm4883> nacc: does factor provide that?
[18:44] <tgm4883> facter*
[18:44] <nacc> tgm4883: Facter you mean?
[18:44] <OerHeks> daftykins a Marillion fan?
[18:45] <nacc> tgm4883: well, I don't know for sure, due to my lack of ruby/puppet knowledge. There are muliple service providers in lib/puppet/provider/ ... I can run with --debug --verbose and see it trying to see which satisfy if I tell it, e.g. `puppet apply "service { 'tftpd-hpa': ensure => stopped }"`. But really, I'm just trying to verify what puppet thinks provides "service" itself
[18:46] <tgm4883> doesn't appear to be in facter
[18:46] <daftykins> OerHeks: *google* the band? not familiar with them!
[18:47] <tgm4883> nacc: IDK, might try asking in #puppet
[18:47] <nacc> tgm4883: ok, thanks!
[18:47] <OerHeks> On their album i first heard of Punch & Judy, not knowing it was the eq. of the dutch Jan-Klaassen & Katrijn
[18:48] <tgm4883> nacc: it's possibly hard coded somewhere for the defaults bases on OS
[18:48] <tgm4883> nacc: are you trying to do this programatically, or do you just need to know now?
[18:48] <nacc> tgm4883: yeah, that's what i'm hacking (the puppet internals)
[18:49] <nacc> tgm4883: basically, there are some defaultfor and confine constraints that i sort of understand; but i'm trying to get systemd to be the default provider on ubuntu if systemd is running; and otherwise if the upstart binaries are presnt, use upstart; otherwise fallback to initscripts
[18:49] <tgm4883> hmm ok
[18:50] <tgm4883> Alternatively, if you could default to systemd, users could override to upstart if they have that installed
[18:50] <nacc> tgm4883: true; i wonder if we could just do that (in the ubuntu package)
[18:51] <nacc> tgm4883: i'm not entirely sure if hte provider logic is used for more than just local detection (again puppet ignrance)
[18:51] <nacc> tgm4883: that is, do i need to keep the existing satisfy-ing logic internally so it works to e.g., run puppet on 16.04 to manage a 14.04 node
[18:51] <tgm4883> nacc: hmm, maybe if it's configurable in puppet.conf, not sure if it is
[18:51] <tgm4883> nah, it's all going to be client side
[18:52] <nacc> tgm4883: ok, so when you use puppet to run something remotely, it uses a `puppet` run on that victim?
[18:52] <tgm4883> I would bet that the client is going to decide what it's default provider is
[18:52] <tgm4883> puppet doesn't run stuff remotely?
[18:52] <nacc> tgm4883: i know nthing about puppet :)
[18:53] <nacc> tgm4883: i just am wanting to make sure i dont' breaking anything :)
[18:54] <tgm4883> nacc: ok, so you've got two parts, the puppet server and the puppet client. Puppet client checks into the Puppet server and asks "what am I supposed to do". Puppet server generates a catalog for the client (telling it what to do) and gives that to the client
[18:54] <tgm4883> the client then applies all those changes
[18:54] <tgm4883> That's as remote as it gets, the puppet agent (client side) is always pulling the catalog from the server and applying it
[18:55] <tgm4883> so for the provider, there are two possibilities
[18:55] <nacc> tgm4883: ah! ok that clarifies quite a bit :)
[18:55] <tgm4883> 1) The server specifies in the catalog "Use systemd"
[18:56] <tgm4883> or 2) The server specifies in the catalog "Use <service provider>"
[18:56] <tgm4883> I would bet on the second, although the first is possible
[18:57] <tgm4883> When writing puppet code, you can specifiy the provider for a specific item
[18:57] <nacc> tgm4883: right, so how does the server specify which service provider is appropriate for the client?
[18:57] <tgm4883> also, providers don't have to be systemd/upstart. Could be bash, powershell, etc
[18:58] <nacc> tgm4883: well, for "service" there's a limited set
[18:58] <nacc> aiui
[18:58] <tgm4883> The server would know what OS the client is running already, so it could theoretically do a lookup "ah, client is running Ubuntu 16.04, so use systemd for service provider"
[18:59] <tgm4883> Although IMO, that makes less sense than to just say "client, restart this service using your default provider"
[18:59] <tgm4883> Especially since the client would have to know how to interface with the service anyway
[18:59] <nacc> tgm4883: right, but in either case, the client would be used to figure that out
[19:00] <tgm4883> essentially yes
[19:01] <nacc> tgm4883: ok, thanks!
[19:01] <nacc> tgm4883: i mean i'll need to test this case too, just to be sure :)
[20:31] <tgm4883> Who can fix factoids on ubottu
[20:31] <tgm4883> !ltsupgrade
[20:31] <tgm4883> wrong^
[20:33] <DJones> !ltsupgrade
[20:34] <DJones> Just been adjusted
[20:34] <tgm4883> thanks
[20:34] <DJones> Wasn't me
[21:11] <nacc> tgm4883: thanks for your help earlier; i think i finally have a "fix"; puppet is sort of annoying in that there are two providers (debian and systemd) that are very similar. And there doesn't seem to be a good way to have puppet tell me the 'suitable' providers (it can tell me all the known ones and how their suitability is determined)
[21:42] <nacc> tgm4883: sorry to pester, but trying to see if there is a more elegant way; current puppet code does something (defaultfor ... :operatingsystemmajrelease => ["10.04", "12.04", "14.04", "14.10"] to detect upstart. I would like to have systemd's defaultfor be identical but invert that operator. AIUI, the => is defining a hash?
[22:32] <tgm4883> nacc: no, => sets :operatingsystemmajrelease to the hash
[22:32] <tgm4883> in theory, you could also do operatingsystemmajrelease => '14.04'
[22:35] <nacc> tgm4883: yep, i think i figured it out
[22:41] <nacc> tgm4883: the internals are confusing, but basically i just ad to use an { :exists => "/run/systemd/systemd" } => :false/:true accordingly
[22:41] <nacc> *had to use