mappshi all04:38
knightwisehey mapps05:27
mappswashing my sheets and they arent dry05:51
mappsgoing to have to sleep on a bare matress05:51
brobostigonmorning boys and girls.09:14
knightwisehey bro09:32
brobostigonhey knightwise09:39
knightwisehow you doing today brobostigon09:42
brobostigonknightwise: could be better, its been a worrying few weeks, and you?09:42
knightwisedoin ok , some rumminations here too. need to switch contracts in september , so thats always stressfull09:43
knightwisewhat has you grindind your gears09:44
knightwisegrinding your gears (as in worrying)09:45
brobostigonmy partner is ill in hospital, because her being pregnant is setting off her bipolar, and she has been in hospital two weeks now.09:46
zmoylan-pifingers crossed she's feeling better soon brobostigon :-(09:47
brobostigonyes definatly, i hope so too, thanks zmoylan-pi09:47
knightwiseoh brobostigon :( tht doesnt sound too good. We are rootin for  her09:47
brobostigonknightwise: yes, definatly isnt good, thank you.09:48
knightwisehormones are a funny thing , the misses had some issues with it too.09:52
brobostigonyes definatly, we did anticipate it would play with her hormones, but nowhere near this bad.09:56
knightwiseTrue, small imbalances can have quite severe concequences.10:03
knightwiseMisses here took some anti inflamatories against a bugbite on Friday, but sure as you know, it affected her system.10:04
brobostigonthats not good.10:05
knightwiseyeah ..10:05
knightwiseHow long before she is due ?10:06
brobostigonroughly 35 weeks.10:07
knightwisestill a ways to go. Hope everything turns out ok. We are rooting for you10:38
brobostigonyes, me too, thank you.10:44
SuperEngineercurent status:  - busy watching F1 -11:50
daftykinsyawn :)11:51
* zmoylan-pi mulls walking to nearby hill to watch air show or into town for nice long walk home...11:52
SuperEngineerI beg your pardnobs>! - was that a yawn I heard there?  Oh well, no accounting for some peeps bad taste.11:53
daftykinsand here's me struggling to work up the effort to pop and buy some milk ;)11:53
daftykinsSuperEngineer: precisely :D11:53
SuperEngineer[& Grands Prix have air shows!}11:53
SuperEngineerssshhh  - busy watching F1 -11:53
zmoylan-piwatching the 1% arriving in personal helicopters is not an airshow... :-P11:54
daftykinszmoylan-pi: hey you can have one for the road now! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko7eNx0zAuI11:54
SuperEngineerzmoylan-pi: your lack of knowledge of what actually happens is surprising :-D11:54
SuperEngineerssshhh  - busy watching F1 -11:54
zmoylan-pinice video daftykins, i am suprised no one has made a kit addon for the pi's yet11:57
daftykinsprobably realise how much utility they lack ;)11:58
daftykinsi'll have fun making a squeezebox clone out of the pi 3 i ordered though, need to have a look at why my left monitors' built in card reader no longer shows up11:59
ali1234zmoylan-pi: there is one it's called the pitop12:11
zmoylan-pithere is now also one for android phones coming out... $99 i think instead of the $299 for the pitop... pity it's for android though12:18
zmoylan-piright, time for a walk...12:18
knightwiseAt the local coffeeshop12:41
knightwiseVpn'ed into my vps in amsterdam12:41
* knightwise dont like open wifi12:41
knightwiseatom however doesnt like the sshuttle vpn12:48
knightwisecrashin on me12:48
daftykinsatom? shuttle?12:49
knightwisesshuttle is my ssh vpn12:52
knightwiseatom my text editor;12:52
knightwiseseems to have issues12:52
knightwisevery odd12:52
daftykinsis it working on remote files or something?13:02
* penguin42 yaaaawwwwnnnnss at diddledan14:43
daftykinsafty gents14:49
daftykinshmm i'm browsing around tech related videos on youtube, not something i've really done before o014:52
daftykinsi was used to the majority of content on there being impossible to tolerate!14:52
daftykinswell it comes close... guy puts an nvidia 1080 in an HTPC build14:55
diddledanin a webpage the default 8px margin on <body> is there because mosaic did it that way and nobody ever thought to change it15:00
daftykinswhen do you see that?15:03
diddledandaftykins: when you're making your own page from scratch and haven't overridden it yet15:04
daftykinsdiddledan: did you say your keyboard of choice on the desktop is an Apple one still?15:06
diddledanI like my apple keyboard15:07
diddledanannoying that windows won't support the keymap though15:07
daftykinsi thought you could get helper progs15:07
knightwisediddledan: agreed15:16
knightwiseI got a logitech bluetooth mac keyboard that supports both osx and ios15:17
knightwiseThe funny thing is , the linux keymapping is not always correct15:17
diddledanyeah linux is wonky on this with the § and ` keys switched e.g.15:17
knightwiseth@ sign is incorrectly mapped whehen you use and external bluetooth keyboard (its fine when you use the onboard one)15:18
knightwisediddledan: exTREMEly annoying bug15:18
diddledanat least they got £ and # the right way about with both on the same key (the 3-key) where shift+3 = £ and r-alt+3 = #15:19
diddledanthat's in buntu15:19
diddledanof course if I were to hackintosh it then it'ld work :-p15:20
diddledanI get confused between ctrl+c for copy and cmd+c for copy between macos and non-macos15:21
knightwisediddledan: Know what you mean15:36
knightwiseI have a french keyboard layout15:36
* diddledan bemoans foreigners :-p15:37
knightwiseso its even worse15:37
diddledanapparently the majority of britain hates you lot15:37
diddledanbloomin brexit :-(15:37
penguin42I think most of the world hates the french keyboard layout - have you seen where the numbers are?15:38
diddledanI've not seen a french keyboard15:38
diddledanqwertz is Gernal?15:38
knightwisepenguin42: i am unfortunately used to it15:39
knightwiseshould have switched years ago15:39
daftykinsdiddledan: yip15:40
* diddledan yips like a yippy dogh15:40
diddledanI'm not concentrating on my typing fingers today methinks15:40
diddledantoo many mistakes15:40
diddledantoo many mistakes is to what as too many secrets is to setec astronomy15:42
penguin42diddledan: The letter layout is odd enough, but the number layout is much harder15:43
penguin42diddledan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AZERTY   the numbers are shifted15:43
diddledanpenguin42: are they at least in some sort of order? or are they just scattered randomly?15:43
knightwiseno they arent, you just have to presh shift to  access the numbers15:47
=== Knowledge is now known as Guest82615
=== Knowledge is now known as Guest52196
daftykinsthis is pretty sweet, my friend is at a Houston baseball game which i'm watching on stream live18:34
daftykins(so, Texas of course)18:35
ikoniahe's personally streaming it?19:10
zmoylan-piwith written permission from baseball association?19:11
ikoniajust wondered how he was streaming it19:11
zmoylan-pior isn't there a twitter thing now that streams them19:11
daftykinsno i am subscribed to MLB, it's just that she's there *live* :)19:13
zmoylan-pias opposed to been in stasis... :-P19:14
daftykinsi'm about a minute or more behind reality, mind you ;)19:15
daftykinshttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cn_gSAgVMAAyEEQ.jpg:large yay Crucial RAM19:33
diddledan"US Democratic Party chair to resign after leaked emails suggest party insiders tried to sabotage Sanders campaign bbc.in/29TIYkO"20:27
zmoylan-pisee, this is why you use outlook and exchange... they go down so often and lose so much information that you always have plausible deniability... :-P20:28
diddledanand oof: http://www.revk.uk/2016/07/blizzard-withdrawing-support-for-ipv6.html20:36
zmoylan-piand support for pigeons?20:36
diddledanthat's the replacementy20:36
zmoylan-pibut only blizzard bred pigeons of course20:37
daftykinsugh neighbour is playing a film with his window wide open, it's bouncing right off the wall in this tiny lane and straight into mine, or through the wall for the bass20:55
zmoylan-pihopefully not seven samurai, great movie but goes on forever...20:56
daftykinsnah Deadpool by the sounds of it ;)21:05
zmoylan-pishout out plot spoilers... :-P21:06
diddledanHE'S NOT UNBREAKABLE21:09
daftykins"the girl dies!"21:10
diddledan...which leads to comic effect21:10
* daftykins made it up21:10
diddledanyou forgot the spoiler prefix :-p21:10
daftykinsbut it's a lieeeee21:10
diddledanhow about you play the same movie 1 minute ahead21:11
diddledanwith the audio equally loud21:11
daftykinsi'd have to move all my gear into the bathroom to have a chance!21:11
daftykinsi first noticed this guys lack of common decency when i was on the throne, i could hear what he was watching immediately through the wall21:11
zmoylan-pispoiler prefix is not necessary as you're in your own home...21:11
diddledanI'm a good neighbour21:12
daftykinsi can accept loud, but totally wide open window too?21:13
daftykinsmaybe when it was the heat wave, but it's quite cool again now21:13
daftykinsplus he set his TV up in the floor upstairs compared to every other prior tenant21:13
zmoylan-pibe thankful he's not watching porn at 11 volume...21:14
diddledanooh good idea21:14
* diddledan puts porn on21:14
zmoylan-piand play farm animal noises on a different track to really really confuse them...21:16
diddledanwhy? there's farm animal noises in the porn track21:17
* daftykins imitates a giraffe dying, out the window21:18
diddledanwow oracle issued updates to everything this month21:20
zmoylan-pido it while every sysadmin is on holiday... :-)21:29
diddledanewww . sorry for the evil link21:30
zmoylan-piif you want a really evil url... http://shadyurl.com/21:31
zmoylan-pii did like the news that the oil trading industry has been using yahoo im for ages as the defacto standard and that is been shut down so they're scrambling to find a new service21:32
isleofmandanEver since OTA-11, my phone can't connect to my wifi. I've just upgraded my laptop to 16.04 and it couldn't either using the applet, but yet it can if I use nmtui. Does that give a clue as to how I can make phone work?21:54
daftykinsturned the AP / router off and back on? i once helped a person for far too long which this fixed.21:55
daftykinsthey had lied about doing it the first time21:55
daftykinsugh this undesirable neighbour has their TV mounted against the wall onto my place21:56
isleofmandanI have 3 access points, and it's consistent across all of them. (I've rebooted them all too!). I think it's a problem cause by me using maximum length SSID and maximum length WPA2 passphrases. If I create a hotspot with my phone with short name and key, it's fine.21:56
daftykinsso change them and confirm?21:57
daftykinsyou shouldn't let any unreasonable security paranoia encroach on functionality21:57
isleofmandanI think that's the conclusion I'm coming to, but it's clearly a regression. Laptop was fine on earlier Ubuntu and so was phone! What does nmtui do that applet doesn't?21:58
daftykinsok but as soon as you *confirm* you can produce logs and file a bug21:58
daftykinsbut if your nickname is to be believed, then you're somewhere that anyone could care less about hacking a wifi network :) so again the sanity over settings comes into question21:59
isleofmandanAh that would be a good idea, wouldn't it. I'm rubbish at knowing which logs to include and what to file in bug reports though!  Let me go reconfigure one of AP's and see...21:59
daftykinsthe first respondant would ask for more if they needed it, i'm sure22:00
isleofmandanproved my theory. Shortening the passphrase allows connection. I've not changed the SSID.22:02
isleofmandanubuntu phone can now connect too, so it probably has same bug22:03
diddledansherlock 4 trailer: https://www.facebook.com/Sherlock.BBCW/videos/869598476474082/22:05
diddledanisleofmandan: if you can figure-out the exact maximum length of the password to add into a bug report I'm sure whoever looks at it will be grateful22:06
isleofmandanOK. I'll have a play. Might just go pour a beer first... ;)22:06
diddledanbeer is always useful22:06
daftykinsisleofmandan: you're sure it isn't over spec?22:07
daftykinslike how many characters are we talking, before and after?22:07
diddledanisleofmandan: if you feel inclined, then check that it also fails with a password of all a's at a longer-length within spec22:08
daftykinsthat sounds good22:09
diddledandaftykins: unlike your neighbour's telly :-p22:09
diddledantelly doesn't sound good :-D22:09
daftykinswell judging from the range it probably isn't so bad in there, for us neighbours however...22:11
isleofmandanOne AP was set at 32 chars, the other APs are 30 chars. So 30 is too many.22:13
isleofmandanI think they can be 63 chars long according to spec?22:16
isleofmandan29 chars seems to work fine, so it breaks at 3022:19
isleofmandanfor the laptop, however 29 still seems too many for the phone.22:21
isleofmandanoh no, it's not. It was just taking a while to think about it.22:21
isleofmandanso, same behaviour with laptop and phone. WPA2 AES key of 30 chars is too many, but 29 is OK.22:22
isleofmandanbut you can use longer if you configure with nmtui22:23
isleofmandanCan anyone reproduce the problem? If so, I'll think about working out how to report it as a bug.22:24
diddledanpassword max is 63 chars and ssid is maximum of 32bytes22:26
diddledanper spec22:26
diddledantook a while for me to find those though :-)22:26
daftykinsmust not have your specs on to see the specs22:26
diddledanI don't have an ubuntu phone :-(22:27
daftykinsthat just means you don't have to stop and install an update before you call an ambulance22:27
isleofmandanI've only had to fiddle passwords. SSIDs are still as long as they were.22:27
isleofmandanI'd ignored phone as it had stopped connecting to wifi. It's only when I've upgraded laptop tonight that I realised something else was afoot.22:28
isleofmandanThinking about it, I'd done an in-place upgrade to 16.04 and it was connected. I've just done a clean install now and it didn't. So I think it's more to do with how the applet accepts the input. Getting the key in already from a previous version, or via nmtui and all is OK.22:30
daftykinsyou've already reproduced it on two devices, so repeat it by adjusting the length to find the character limit where it does + doesn't work, then file that22:30
isleofmandanIt's 30 chars where it breaks.22:30
daftykinsso 29 ok, 30 no?22:30
daftykinsyeah, could be - you could also try setting up the connection manually instead of selecting a visible network22:31
daftykinsthough i've a feeling this is the part where you say you hide SSID so have to do manual...22:31
isleofmandanI'm not paranoid ;)  SSID is broadcast.22:31
isleofmandanBTW, I'm impressed at how IRC doesn't kick me out even though laptop is disappearing from wifi lots :)22:33
diddledanok, so it doesn't work on 16.04 freshly installed? (did you install from 16.04.1 from this week or the original iso from april?)22:33
isleofmandanI may have missed some replies though :)22:33
diddledanI've got a space pc I can test with, so I'll do that22:34
isleofmandan16.04.1 downloaded tonight, and MD5 sum checked first.22:34
isleofmandanI first noticed problem with phone on OTA-1122:38
daftykinsdiddledan: rocket man laptop?22:38
daftykinsspaaaaaaaace PC22:38
diddledan1513308160 bytes (1.5 GB, 1.4 GiB) copied, 0.623893 s, 2.4 GB/s22:39
diddledanthat was far too fast22:39
diddledanover USB222:39
diddledanit was the correct device, too22:40
isleofmandanThat's how fast it was written to the hardware cache ;)   Now try sudo sync22:40
isleofmandan(I learned about that after pulling USB keys out when dd had said it had finished at some crazy speed, and finding they didn't work..)22:41
daftykinsthat definitely came in at some point, so some behaviour must've changed between versions22:42
diddledanneither 29 nor 30 chars work for me in passwords22:55
daftykinscould be influenced by specific driver? assuming that, as is likely, you're not both using the same adapter22:56
daftykinsthough i suppose the phone wasn't the same either22:56
diddledanpossibly - 20 chars also fails22:56
diddledanI think there's more problem than char limit22:57
diddledanlet me just double-check I can login to my known-good network22:58
isleofmandanapologies, didn't realise I'd been disconnected22:59
diddledanyeah I can login to that one - with a 19char pass23:00
* daftykins facepalms23:00
daftykinsi've just been hunting for bulbs that were under my nose the entire evening23:00
isleofmandanIt might be more complicated than number of characters. I've just had to drop to 28 characters to make a different passphrase work.23:00
daftykinsyou know that thing when you can't see it for seeing it :(23:00
isleofmandanPhone seems 'weaker' at this than laptop. I've now got a 28 char passphrase that laptop can do, but phone can't.23:13
isleofmandanAnd if I choose a repeated single character, phone can do 2923:13
isleofmandanso it's something complicated :)23:13
diddledanok, I can connect with a 30 char password in 16.04.1 live iso23:17
isleofmandanoh :/23:17
diddledanI can also connect with 63 chars23:18
isleofmandanBut you has problems earlier? I thought you'd had trouble with 29 & 30 ?23:19
diddledanI was wrong on that. I hadn't configured my router properly23:19
isleofmandanSo it is just me. How odd.23:19
diddledanagain, I can't check the phone 'cos I don't got one :-)23:21
diddledanbut the live iso certainly seems to be ok for me23:21
isleofmandanHmm. Only way I could get my laptop going on a longer than 29 char one was to use nmtui23:22
diddledanit works whether I use tkip key or aes key so it isn't a problem with that. next check is wpa vs wpa223:22
isleofmandanIs the live iso booted to the desktop? Or are you putting the key in at the installer part?23:23
diddledanI'm using the standard desktop mode, yeah23:23
isleofmandanI wonder if it's a combination of SSID and key length? I think the actual keys get derived from the SSID and the PSK.23:24
isleofmandanLet me try a shorter SSID with a longer Key...23:24
isleofmandanbut first let me move my IRC to my wired desktop ;)23:24
diddledanalso works fine for me on wpa (as in the forerunner to wpa2 but the successor to wep) again both with aes and with tkip23:25
isleofman_danI've now managed a 40 char key on both phone and laptop, by shortening SSID to one character, so it's something to do with both of them.23:32
isleofman_danWhen it fails, neither phone or laptop even try to connect. There's no delay or anything. It's as if it ignores input to key entry.23:33

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