[04:38] <mapps> hi all
[05:27] <knightwise> hey mapps
[05:51] <mapps> washing my sheets and they arent dry
[05:51] <mapps> going to have to sleep on a bare matress
[05:51] <mapps> hm
[09:14] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:32] <knightwise> hey bro
[09:39] <brobostigon> hey knightwise
[09:42] <knightwise> how you doing today brobostigon
[09:42] <brobostigon> knightwise: could be better, its been a worrying few weeks, and you?
[09:43] <knightwise> doin ok , some rumminations here too. need to switch contracts in september , so thats always stressfull
[09:44] <knightwise> what has you grindind your gears
[09:44] <brobostigon> grinded?
[09:45] <knightwise> grinding your gears (as in worrying)
[09:46] <brobostigon> my partner is ill in hospital, because her being pregnant is setting off her bipolar, and she has been in hospital two weeks now.
[09:47] <zmoylan-pi> fingers crossed she's feeling better soon brobostigon :-(
[09:47] <brobostigon> yes definatly, i hope so too, thanks zmoylan-pi
[09:47] <knightwise> oh brobostigon :( tht doesnt sound too good. We are rootin for  her
[09:48] <brobostigon> knightwise: yes, definatly isnt good, thank you.
[09:52] <knightwise> hormones are a funny thing , the misses had some issues with it too.
[09:56] <brobostigon> yes definatly, we did anticipate it would play with her hormones, but nowhere near this bad.
[10:03] <knightwise> True, small imbalances can have quite severe concequences.
[10:04] <knightwise> Misses here took some anti inflamatories against a bugbite on Friday, but sure as you know, it affected her system.
[10:05] <brobostigon> thats not good.
[10:05] <knightwise> yeah ..
[10:06] <knightwise> How long before she is due ?
[10:07] <brobostigon> roughly 35 weeks.
[10:38] <knightwise> still a ways to go. Hope everything turns out ok. We are rooting for you
[10:44] <brobostigon> yes, me too, thank you.
[11:17] <daftykins> o0
[11:50] <SuperEngineer> curent status:  - busy watching F1 -
[11:51] <daftykins> yawn :)
[11:52]  * zmoylan-pi mulls walking to nearby hill to watch air show or into town for nice long walk home...
[11:53] <SuperEngineer> I beg your pardnobs>! - was that a yawn I heard there?  Oh well, no accounting for some peeps bad taste.
[11:53] <daftykins> and here's me struggling to work up the effort to pop and buy some milk ;)
[11:53] <daftykins> SuperEngineer: precisely :D
[11:53] <SuperEngineer> [& Grands Prix have air shows!}
[11:53] <SuperEngineer> ssshhh  - busy watching F1 -
[11:54] <zmoylan-pi> watching the 1% arriving in personal helicopters is not an airshow... :-P
[11:54] <daftykins> zmoylan-pi: hey you can have one for the road now! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko7eNx0zAuI
[11:54] <SuperEngineer> zmoylan-pi: your lack of knowledge of what actually happens is surprising :-D
[11:54] <SuperEngineer> ssshhh  - busy watching F1 -
[11:57] <zmoylan-pi> nice video daftykins, i am suprised no one has made a kit addon for the pi's yet
[11:58] <daftykins> probably realise how much utility they lack ;)
[11:59] <daftykins> i'll have fun making a squeezebox clone out of the pi 3 i ordered though, need to have a look at why my left monitors' built in card reader no longer shows up
[12:11] <ali1234> zmoylan-pi: there is one it's called the pitop
[12:18] <zmoylan-pi> there is now also one for android phones coming out... $99 i think instead of the $299 for the pitop... pity it's for android though
[12:18] <zmoylan-pi> right, time for a walk...
[12:41] <knightwise> At the local coffeeshop
[12:41] <knightwise> Vpn'ed into my vps in amsterdam
[12:41]  * knightwise dont like open wifi
[12:42] <daftykins> ;]
[12:48] <knightwise> atom however doesnt like the sshuttle vpn
[12:48] <knightwise> crashin on me
[12:49] <daftykins> atom? shuttle?
[12:52] <knightwise> sshuttle is my ssh vpn
[12:52] <knightwise> atom my text editor;
[12:52] <knightwise> seems to have issues
[12:52] <knightwise> very odd
[13:02] <daftykins> hrmm
[13:02] <daftykins> is it working on remote files or something?
[14:42] <diddledan> morning
[14:43]  * penguin42 yaaaawwwwnnnnss at diddledan
[14:49] <daftykins> \o
[14:49] <daftykins> afty gents
[14:49] <penguin42> hey
[14:52] <daftykins> hmm i'm browsing around tech related videos on youtube, not something i've really done before o0
[14:52] <daftykins> i was used to the majority of content on there being impossible to tolerate!
[14:55] <daftykins> well it comes close... guy puts an nvidia 1080 in an HTPC build
[14:55] <daftykins> oy.
[15:00] <diddledan> in a webpage the default 8px margin on <body> is there because mosaic did it that way and nobody ever thought to change it
[15:03] <daftykins> when do you see that?
[15:04] <diddledan> daftykins: when you're making your own page from scratch and haven't overridden it yet
[15:06] <daftykins> ah
[15:06] <daftykins> diddledan: did you say your keyboard of choice on the desktop is an Apple one still?
[15:06] <diddledan> yup
[15:07] <diddledan> I like my apple keyboard
[15:07] <diddledan> annoying that windows won't support the keymap though
[15:07] <daftykins> i thought you could get helper progs
[15:16] <knightwise> diddledan: agreed
[15:17] <knightwise> I got a logitech bluetooth mac keyboard that supports both osx and ios
[15:17] <knightwise> The funny thing is , the linux keymapping is not always correct
[15:17] <diddledan> yeah linux is wonky on this with the § and ` keys switched e.g.
[15:18] <knightwise> th@ sign is incorrectly mapped whehen you use and external bluetooth keyboard (its fine when you use the onboard one)
[15:18] <knightwise> diddledan: exTREMEly annoying bug
[15:18] <diddledan> aye
[15:19] <diddledan> at least they got £ and # the right way about with both on the same key (the 3-key) where shift+3 = £ and r-alt+3 = #
[15:19] <diddledan> that's in buntu
[15:20] <diddledan> of course if I were to hackintosh it then it'ld work :-p
[15:21] <diddledan> I get confused between ctrl+c for copy and cmd+c for copy between macos and non-macos
[15:36] <knightwise> diddledan: Know what you mean
[15:36] <knightwise> I have a french keyboard layout
[15:37]  * diddledan bemoans foreigners :-p
[15:37] <knightwise> so its even worse
[15:37] <diddledan> apparently the majority of britain hates you lot
[15:37] <diddledan> :-(
[15:37] <diddledan> bloomin brexit :-(
[15:38] <penguin42> I think most of the world hates the french keyboard layout - have you seen where the numbers are?
[15:38] <diddledan> lol
[15:38] <diddledan> I've not seen a french keyboard
[15:38] <diddledan> azerty?
[15:38] <diddledan> qwertz is Gernal?
[15:38] <diddledan> German*8
[15:38] <knightwise> azerty
[15:39] <knightwise> penguin42: i am unfortunately used to it
[15:39] <knightwise> should have switched years ago
[15:40] <daftykins> diddledan: yip
[15:40] <diddledan> yipyip
[15:40]  * diddledan yips like a yippy dogh
[15:40] <diddledan> dog
[15:40] <diddledan> I'm not concentrating on my typing fingers today methinks
[15:40] <diddledan> too many mistakes
[15:42] <diddledan> too many mistakes is to what as too many secrets is to setec astronomy
[15:43] <penguin42> diddledan: The letter layout is odd enough, but the number layout is much harder
[15:43] <penguin42> diddledan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AZERTY   the numbers are shifted
[15:43] <diddledan> penguin42: are they at least in some sort of order? or are they just scattered randomly?
[15:47] <knightwise> no they arent, you just have to presh shift to  access the numbers
[15:55] <diddledan> https://blog.stackoverflow.com/2016/07/introducing-stack-overflow-documentation-beta/
[18:34] <daftykins> this is pretty sweet, my friend is at a Houston baseball game which i'm watching on stream live
[18:35] <daftykins> (so, Texas of course)
[19:10] <ikonia> he's personally streaming it?
[19:11] <zmoylan-pi> with written permission from baseball association?
[19:11] <ikonia> just wondered how he was streaming it
[19:11] <zmoylan-pi> or isn't there a twitter thing now that streams them
[19:13] <daftykins> no i am subscribed to MLB, it's just that she's there *live* :)
[19:14] <zmoylan-pi> as opposed to been in stasis... :-P
[19:15] <daftykins> i'm about a minute or more behind reality, mind you ;)
[19:33] <daftykins> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cn_gSAgVMAAyEEQ.jpg:large yay Crucial RAM
[20:27] <diddledan> "US Democratic Party chair to resign after leaked emails suggest party insiders tried to sabotage Sanders campaign bbc.in/29TIYkO"
[20:28] <zmoylan-pi> see, this is why you use outlook and exchange... they go down so often and lose so much information that you always have plausible deniability... :-P
[20:36] <diddledan> and oof: http://www.revk.uk/2016/07/blizzard-withdrawing-support-for-ipv6.html
[20:36] <zmoylan-pi> and support for pigeons?
[20:36] <diddledan> that's the replacementy
[20:37] <zmoylan-pi> but only blizzard bred pigeons of course
[20:55] <daftykins> ugh neighbour is playing a film with his window wide open, it's bouncing right off the wall in this tiny lane and straight into mine, or through the wall for the bass
[20:56] <zmoylan-pi> hopefully not seven samurai, great movie but goes on forever...
[21:05] <daftykins> nah Deadpool by the sounds of it ;)
[21:06] <zmoylan-pi> shout out plot spoilers... :-P
[21:09] <diddledan> lmao
[21:09] <diddledan> HE'S NOT UNBREAKABLE
[21:10] <daftykins> "the girl dies!"
[21:10] <diddledan> ...which leads to comic effect
[21:10] <diddledan> :-o
[21:10] <diddledan> OMG
[21:10]  * daftykins made it up
[21:10] <diddledan> you forgot the spoiler prefix :-p
[21:10] <daftykins> but it's a lieeeee
[21:11] <diddledan> how about you play the same movie 1 minute ahead
[21:11] <diddledan> with the audio equally loud
[21:11] <daftykins> i'd have to move all my gear into the bathroom to have a chance!
[21:11] <daftykins> i first noticed this guys lack of common decency when i was on the throne, i could hear what he was watching immediately through the wall
[21:11] <zmoylan-pi> spoiler prefix is not necessary as you're in your own home...
[21:12] <diddledan> lol
[21:12] <diddledan> I'm a good neighbour
[21:13] <daftykins> i can accept loud, but totally wide open window too?
[21:13] <daftykins> maybe when it was the heat wave, but it's quite cool again now
[21:13] <daftykins> plus he set his TV up in the floor upstairs compared to every other prior tenant
[21:14] <zmoylan-pi> be thankful he's not watching porn at 11 volume...
[21:14] <diddledan> ooh good idea
[21:14]  * diddledan puts porn on
[21:16] <zmoylan-pi> and play farm animal noises on a different track to really really confuse them...
[21:17] <diddledan> why? there's farm animal noises in the porn track
[21:18]  * daftykins imitates a giraffe dying, out the window
[21:20] <diddledan> wow oracle issued updates to everything this month
[21:21] <diddledan> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/security-advisory/cpujul2016-2881720.html
[21:29] <zmoylan-pi> do it while every sysadmin is on holiday... :-)
[21:30] <diddledan> http://venturebeat.com/2016/07/24/yahoo-will-reportedly-be-acquired-by-verizon-in-4-8-billion-deal/?utm_content=buffer10458&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
[21:30] <diddledan> ewww . sorry for the evil link
[21:31] <zmoylan-pi> if you want a really evil url... http://shadyurl.com/
[21:32] <zmoylan-pi> i did like the news that the oil trading industry has been using yahoo im for ages as the defacto standard and that is been shut down so they're scrambling to find a new service
[21:54] <isleofmandan> Ever since OTA-11, my phone can't connect to my wifi. I've just upgraded my laptop to 16.04 and it couldn't either using the applet, but yet it can if I use nmtui. Does that give a clue as to how I can make phone work?
[21:55] <daftykins> turned the AP / router off and back on? i once helped a person for far too long which this fixed.
[21:55] <daftykins> they had lied about doing it the first time
[21:56] <daftykins> ugh this undesirable neighbour has their TV mounted against the wall onto my place
[21:56] <isleofmandan> I have 3 access points, and it's consistent across all of them. (I've rebooted them all too!). I think it's a problem cause by me using maximum length SSID and maximum length WPA2 passphrases. If I create a hotspot with my phone with short name and key, it's fine.
[21:57] <daftykins> so change them and confirm?
[21:57] <daftykins> you shouldn't let any unreasonable security paranoia encroach on functionality
[21:58] <isleofmandan> I think that's the conclusion I'm coming to, but it's clearly a regression. Laptop was fine on earlier Ubuntu and so was phone! What does nmtui do that applet doesn't?
[21:58] <daftykins> ok but as soon as you *confirm* you can produce logs and file a bug
[21:59] <daftykins> but if your nickname is to be believed, then you're somewhere that anyone could care less about hacking a wifi network :) so again the sanity over settings comes into question
[21:59] <isleofmandan> Ah that would be a good idea, wouldn't it. I'm rubbish at knowing which logs to include and what to file in bug reports though!  Let me go reconfigure one of AP's and see...
[22:00] <daftykins> the first respondant would ask for more if they needed it, i'm sure
[22:02] <isleofmandan> proved my theory. Shortening the passphrase allows connection. I've not changed the SSID.
[22:03] <isleofmandan> ubuntu phone can now connect too, so it probably has same bug
[22:05] <diddledan> sherlock 4 trailer: https://www.facebook.com/Sherlock.BBCW/videos/869598476474082/
[22:06] <diddledan> isleofmandan: if you can figure-out the exact maximum length of the password to add into a bug report I'm sure whoever looks at it will be grateful
[22:06] <isleofmandan> OK. I'll have a play. Might just go pour a beer first... ;)
[22:06] <diddledan> beer is always useful
[22:07] <daftykins> isleofmandan: you're sure it isn't over spec?
[22:07] <daftykins> like how many characters are we talking, before and after?
[22:08] <diddledan> isleofmandan: if you feel inclined, then check that it also fails with a password of all a's at a longer-length within spec
[22:09] <daftykins> that sounds good
[22:09] <diddledan> daftykins: unlike your neighbour's telly :-p
[22:09] <diddledan> telly doesn't sound good :-D
[22:10] <daftykins> ;D
[22:11] <daftykins> well judging from the range it probably isn't so bad in there, for us neighbours however...
[22:13] <isleofmandan> One AP was set at 32 chars, the other APs are 30 chars. So 30 is too many.
[22:16] <isleofmandan> I think they can be 63 chars long according to spec?
[22:19] <isleofmandan> 29 chars seems to work fine, so it breaks at 30
[22:21] <isleofmandan> for the laptop, however 29 still seems too many for the phone.
[22:21] <isleofmandan> oh no, it's not. It was just taking a while to think about it.
[22:22] <isleofmandan> so, same behaviour with laptop and phone. WPA2 AES key of 30 chars is too many, but 29 is OK.
[22:23] <isleofmandan> but you can use longer if you configure with nmtui
[22:24] <isleofmandan> Can anyone reproduce the problem? If so, I'll think about working out how to report it as a bug.
[22:26] <diddledan> password max is 63 chars and ssid is maximum of 32bytes
[22:26] <diddledan> per spec
[22:26] <diddledan> took a while for me to find those though :-)
[22:26] <daftykins> must not have your specs on to see the specs
[22:27] <diddledan> I don't have an ubuntu phone :-(
[22:27] <daftykins> that just means you don't have to stop and install an update before you call an ambulance
[22:27] <isleofmandan> I've only had to fiddle passwords. SSIDs are still as long as they were.
[22:28] <isleofmandan> I'd ignored phone as it had stopped connecting to wifi. It's only when I've upgraded laptop tonight that I realised something else was afoot.
[22:30] <isleofmandan> Thinking about it, I'd done an in-place upgrade to 16.04 and it was connected. I've just done a clean install now and it didn't. So I think it's more to do with how the applet accepts the input. Getting the key in already from a previous version, or via nmtui and all is OK.
[22:30] <daftykins> you've already reproduced it on two devices, so repeat it by adjusting the length to find the character limit where it does + doesn't work, then file that
[22:30] <isleofmandan> It's 30 chars where it breaks.
[22:30] <daftykins> so 29 ok, 30 no?
[22:30] <isleofmandan> yes
[22:31] <daftykins> yeah, could be - you could also try setting up the connection manually instead of selecting a visible network
[22:31] <daftykins> though i've a feeling this is the part where you say you hide SSID so have to do manual...
[22:31] <isleofmandan> I'm not paranoid ;)  SSID is broadcast.
[22:33] <isleofmandan> BTW, I'm impressed at how IRC doesn't kick me out even though laptop is disappearing from wifi lots :)
[22:33] <diddledan> ok, so it doesn't work on 16.04 freshly installed? (did you install from 16.04.1 from this week or the original iso from april?)
[22:33] <isleofmandan> I may have missed some replies though :)
[22:34] <diddledan> I've got a space pc I can test with, so I'll do that
[22:34] <isleofmandan> 16.04.1 downloaded tonight, and MD5 sum checked first.
[22:35] <diddledan> right-oh
[22:38] <isleofmandan> I first noticed problem with phone on OTA-11
[22:38] <daftykins> diddledan: rocket man laptop?
[22:38] <daftykins> ;D
[22:38] <daftykins> spaaaaaaaace PC
[22:39] <diddledan> 1513308160 bytes (1.5 GB, 1.4 GiB) copied, 0.623893 s, 2.4 GB/s
[22:39] <diddledan> that was far too fast
[22:39] <diddledan> over USB2
[22:40] <diddledan> it was the correct device, too
[22:40] <isleofmandan> That's how fast it was written to the hardware cache ;)   Now try sudo sync
[22:40] <diddledan> aye
[22:41] <isleofmandan> (I learned about that after pulling USB keys out when dd had said it had finished at some crazy speed, and finding they didn't work..)
[22:42] <daftykins> that definitely came in at some point, so some behaviour must've changed between versions
[22:55] <diddledan> neither 29 nor 30 chars work for me in passwords
[22:56] <daftykins> could be influenced by specific driver? assuming that, as is likely, you're not both using the same adapter
[22:56] <daftykins> though i suppose the phone wasn't the same either
[22:56] <diddledan> possibly - 20 chars also fails
[22:57] <diddledan> I think there's more problem than char limit
[22:58] <diddledan> let me just double-check I can login to my known-good network
[22:59] <isleofmandan> apologies, didn't realise I'd been disconnected
[23:00] <diddledan> yeah I can login to that one - with a 19char pass
[23:00]  * daftykins facepalms
[23:00] <daftykins> i've just been hunting for bulbs that were under my nose the entire evening
[23:00] <isleofmandan> It might be more complicated than number of characters. I've just had to drop to 28 characters to make a different passphrase work.
[23:00] <daftykins> you know that thing when you can't see it for seeing it :(
[23:13] <isleofmandan> Phone seems 'weaker' at this than laptop. I've now got a 28 char passphrase that laptop can do, but phone can't.
[23:13] <isleofmandan> And if I choose a repeated single character, phone can do 29
[23:13] <isleofmandan> so it's something complicated :)
[23:17] <diddledan> ok, I can connect with a 30 char password in 16.04.1 live iso
[23:17] <isleofmandan> oh :/
[23:18] <diddledan> I can also connect with 63 chars
[23:19] <isleofmandan> But you has problems earlier? I thought you'd had trouble with 29 & 30 ?
[23:19] <diddledan> I was wrong on that. I hadn't configured my router properly
[23:19] <isleofmandan> So it is just me. How odd.
[23:21] <diddledan> again, I can't check the phone 'cos I don't got one :-)
[23:21] <diddledan> but the live iso certainly seems to be ok for me
[23:22] <isleofmandan> Hmm. Only way I could get my laptop going on a longer than 29 char one was to use nmtui
[23:22] <diddledan> it works whether I use tkip key or aes key so it isn't a problem with that. next check is wpa vs wpa2
[23:23] <isleofmandan> Is the live iso booted to the desktop? Or are you putting the key in at the installer part?
[23:23] <diddledan> I'm using the standard desktop mode, yeah
[23:24] <isleofmandan> I wonder if it's a combination of SSID and key length? I think the actual keys get derived from the SSID and the PSK.
[23:24] <isleofmandan> Let me try a shorter SSID with a longer Key...
[23:24] <isleofmandan> but first let me move my IRC to my wired desktop ;)
[23:25] <diddledan> also works fine for me on wpa (as in the forerunner to wpa2 but the successor to wep) again both with aes and with tkip
[23:32] <isleofman_dan> I've now managed a 40 char key on both phone and laptop, by shortening SSID to one character, so it's something to do with both of them.
[23:33] <isleofman_dan> When it fails, neither phone or laptop even try to connect. There's no delay or anything. It's as if it ignores input to key entry.