[01:41] <GarettMcCarty> WAIT BEFORE I FINISH PORTING UBUNTU TOUCH, DOES UBUNTU TOUCH HAVE A IRC APP?!
[01:42] <OerHeks> sure, https://uappexplorer.com/apps?q=irc&sort=relevance
[01:42] <GarettMcCarty> Okay good
[01:44] <GarettMcCarty> I think today is the day guys :D the port of LG H811 / LG G4 TMobile
[01:44] <GarettMcCarty> Once i am finished should i make a tutorial for noobs?
[01:45] <GarettMcCarty> Or document my process saying i am a noob?
[01:45] <OerHeks> you better ask dobey or popey howto publish.
[01:46] <GarettMcCarty> Ill make a repo and just upload a markdown document and post that link when i publish the image to XDA
[09:08] <ondra> ogra_ here, when is media1 around>?
[09:08] <ondra> ogra_ to help him
[09:09] <ogra_> ondra, i guess he is US eascoast or some such
[09:12] <ondra> ogra_ sure will catch him today
[09:12] <ondra> ogra_ will check wiki if I can quickly add some build steps for iterations
[09:14] <ogra_> ondra, yeah, he is not very well versed in linux stuff ...
[09:14] <ogra_> prepare for some handholding :)
[09:19] <raph_ael> i'd like to open a bug about battery draining, but can't find a relevant category in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Components
[09:25] <duflu> raph_ael: Please use project canonical-devices-system-image
[09:25] <duflu> raph_ael: https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+filebug
[09:25] <raph_ael> duflu: thanks
[09:30] <ondra> ogra_ lol
[09:30] <ondra> ogra_ we've all been there
[09:30] <ogra_> yep :)
[09:31] <ondra> ogra_ BTW you should see my tyre after some aggressive driving in Romanian mountains :)
[09:31] <ogra_> haha
[09:31] <ogra_> did you run over some vampires at least ? :)
[09:36] <ondra> ogra_ http://picpaste.com/425726579_14653084376221535104-WCu5W7jU.jpg
[09:36] <ondra> ogra_ whatever I run over, my tyre did not like it at all
[09:37] <jgdx> dobey, hey, what are your thoughts on https://code.launchpad.net/~jonas-drange/ubuntu-push/replace-dead-deps/+merge/301195
[09:40] <ogra_> ouch !
[09:45] <duflu> Have any devices been deprecated the last few months? I'm finding both arale and krillin on OTA-10 never see OTA-11 and don't upgrade
[09:46] <duflu> And I have to start on OTA-10 to work around an OTA-11 bug :(
[09:49] <seb128> duflu, what channel do you use?
[09:49] <duflu> seb128: Stable
[09:50] <duflu> Stable OTA-10 can't see any OTA-11 to upgrade to for krillin and arale. Although mako can see it
[09:50] <seb128> there is no discontinued device afaik, maybe there is an issue with the channel you use or with the system-image service
[09:51] <popey> duflu: what does "system-image-cli --info" report on device, there's also a dry-run option - "-n" I *think* which reports what it will do
[09:51] <popey> we have had instances of devices not updating in the past
[09:51] <popey> often it's because the device was on a long-dead channel which was deprecated
[09:51] <jibel> duflu, nothing has been deprecated. Can you upgrade with system-image-cli from the command line in verbose mode and see if the logs tell something useful
[09:52] <duflu> # system-image-cli -i
[09:52] <duflu> current build number: 11
[09:52] <duflu> device name: arale
[09:52] <duflu> channel: ubuntu-touch/stable/meizu.en
[09:52] <duflu> last update: 2016-07-27 17:30:58
[09:52] <duflu> version version: 11
[09:52] <duflu> version ubuntu: 20160401.1
[09:52] <duflu> version tag: OTA-10
[09:52] <duflu> version device: 20160331-e143fc2
[09:52] <duflu> version custom: 20160324-945-18-69
[09:53] <duflu> Never mind... I need to kill Unity8 and finish other tasks on it
[09:54] <jgdx> Saviq, the build still failed :s
[09:58] <ogra_> \o/
[09:58] <popey> ooh
[09:58] <duflu> Cool. Just as I broke krillin. It needs a new image :)
[10:02] <chrisccoulson> Is there an API for apps to enable the rotation lock?
[10:03] <cariveri> Hi there. What SDK would you prefer to write an App for ubuntu-phone as well as androids ?
[10:03] <chrisccoulson> Or to at least temporarily prevent rotation
[10:06] <mcphail> chrisccoulson: there's an API for html5 apps (I think) which the "Cut the Rope" game uses. For normal apps, you can add a directive to the manifest or desktop file (I can't remember which, off the top of my head)
[10:07] <chrisccoulson> mcphail, so I guess what I really want to know is how the API for html5 apps works. It's certainly not using the html5 ScreenOrientation API, which isn't fully implemented in our webengine (and is the context for my question)
[10:08] <mcphail> chrisccoulson: I'm not clear on the specifics, but the code is in the cut-the-rope demo app, and can be browsed within the installed click package
[10:09] <mcphail> chrisccoulson: the chaps on #ubuntu-app-devel are the best people to ask
[10:39] <greyback> chrisccoulson: no, we've not added that api (yet). https://bugs.launchpad.net/qtmir/+bug/1382209 is the bug tracking that task. If you need it, we can try bump it up the priority list
[10:42] <chrisccoulson> greyback, ah, thanks. It's not important at the moment - I'm not entirely sure how many websites require it tbh (and I suspect it would be mostly games)
[10:42] <chrisccoulson> But it will be required for us to implement https://w3c.github.io/screen-orientation/#dom-screenorientation-lock
[10:43] <greyback> chrisccoulson: understood. I'll try to get it more focus
[10:50] <robinhero> hey, which is the proper command to flash my phone without data loss, I don't want to wait for the OTA update :)
[10:52] <cariveri> when is the next OTA release by the way?
[10:53] <robinhero> cariveri, it's already released
[10:53] <robinhero> just it's a phased update
[10:53] <robinhero> so If you're unluck, you need to wait about 20 hours
[10:55] <cariveri> I got OTA-11 on the phone an so far no updates offered. bq aquaris e5.
[10:56] <robinhero> as I said above, it is a phased updates, 5% of the users get the update in every hour
[10:58] <cariveri> cool. then I only need to hope that the network manager is updated/fixed too.
[11:01] <robinhero> what's the exact bug? Do you have connectivity issues after leaving WiFi area? If yes, there is a fix in this release
[11:05] <cariveri> the exacte bug is not being initialized. indicated by license infos not being displyed and stuck on switch from wifi to provider network. further problems I now of is vcl remote app doesnt connect, due to errors of not being initialized properly.
[11:08] <MasseR> "Optimized new tab view loading time" <3<3
[11:08] <MasseR> Now if I only took the effort to do some sort of bug report for having no gps
[11:14] <cariveri> alright. thanks for the infos.
[11:28] <Mister_Q> robinhero https://github.com/MariusQuabeck/magic-device-tool
[11:38] <t-ask> Is OTA12 postponed again?
[11:38] <t-ask> or is it simply not released so far?
[11:42] <davmor2> t-ask: it is out mid-way through the rollout
[11:43] <t-ask> kk, I'm just eager tzo test it :)
[11:50] <Fly__> Hello there!
[11:50] <davmor2> Fly__: hello
[12:12] <jgdx> mardy, hey, I +2'd, but left a comment on the dekko plugin mr. Go's understanding of RFC 2822 is imo buggy, and I'd hate to fix bugs in that area twice.
[12:13] <jgdx> s/understanding/implementation.. they had e.g. api breakage going from 1.3 to 1.6 IIRC
[12:42] <mardy> jgdx: thanks, I saw it, I commented. If you think I should, I'll try to reduce code duplication
[12:44] <jgdx> mardy, so if you're comfortable with that, let's go ahead and land it.
[12:50] <mardy> jgdx: excellent, thanks
[13:02] <dobey> jgdx: i don't know. maybe not what i'd do, but meh.
[13:28] <mardy> ondra: that tire, it looks like it's smiling (or even lolling)
[13:37] <ondra> mardy lol, what's amazing I did probably half of Transalpina with it, those runflats can take some punishment
[13:43] <faenil> cimi: done https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1606935
[14:03] <ahoneybun> ohh I think my nexus7 is almost as smooth as the nexus4 now
[14:24] <mardy> jgdx: the account-polld silo is built: https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1722
[14:25] <mardy> DanChapman: hi! did you already fix that push helper in Dekko? If not, would you welcome a merge proposal?
[14:25] <jgdx> mardy, thanks, will test
[14:27] <ejat> hi , how do i upgrade to OTA 12?
[14:27] <ejat> already check there is no new updates
[14:33] <ejat> anyone?
[14:34] <ejat> ubuntu-device-flash touch --channel=stable
[14:34] <ejat> ok
[14:37] <davmor2> ejat: it is in roll out mode so it flags x phones an hour
[14:38] <ejat> davmor2: owh okie
[14:38] <ejat> if i do the cmd above would flash my device?
[14:39] <davmor2> ejat: just wait it'll happen some point today/tomorrow depending on your timezone
[14:39] <ejat> davmor2: ok .. ill cancel the flashing
[14:43] <ejat> thanks for the info
[16:49] <florian> Good Evening!
[16:49] <florian> Can anyone tell me how I can increase the default userdata partition in the emulator?
[17:19] <florian> No one?
[17:20] <dobey> i don't now that you can
[17:21] <dobey> afaik, you'd need to build a different base image which has a larger /userdata
[17:21] <dobey> but i'm by no means an expert on the emulator
[17:21] <dobey> is the standard /userdata not large enough in the emulator?
[17:22] <dobey> (i don't know how big it is. i don't use the emulator myself. last time i tried, it was unusable)
[17:46] <florian> dobey, thanks
[17:47] <florian> I found already that the underlying img is a normal qcow image
[17:47] <florian> so it should be resizable
[17:52] <dobey> florian: i don't understand why you'd want to resize it in the first place. how large is /userdata in the image already?
[17:52] <florian> the eumlator has 4GB of image size, but look I got the following problem
[17:53] <florian> I have a real device with some data on it and I lost access to it due to a hardware problem
[17:53] <florian> But I got a backup for this device
[17:53] <florian> I now want to confirm that the backup can be restored to a new hardware
[17:53] <dobey> ok
[17:53] <florian> I need maybe 2GB more space to restore the backup
[17:53] <dobey> you just have a tarball of $HOME?
[17:54] <florian> more or less yes
[17:54] <florian> actually I would only need the contacts DB
[17:54] <florian> all other data is not so important
[17:54] <florian> But I cant figure out which data to restore so that the emuklator would show my contacts
[17:55] <dobey> you just need the ~/.local/share/evolution/ directory from it, to get contacts/calendar data out
[17:56] <dobey> contacts are in an sqlite db under there
[17:56] <mimecar> you can use a sqlite frontend and access your data
[17:56] <mimecar> it would not be necessary run the emulator
[17:57] <dobey> but short answer is yes, if you have the data from ~/ you can restore it to another ubuntu device. in fact i manually imported my contacts from an exported vcard on anther phone type, via evolution, to ubuntu phone, to get my contacts copied over
[17:57] <dobey> mimecar: no, that's not the answer
[17:57] <dobey> you don't need an emulator indeed, but "use an sqlite frontend to access your data" is not right
[17:57] <mimecar> he can use it to access his data
[17:58] <florian> hmm
[17:58] <florian> I copied the directory already into the emulator but the contacts are always empty
[17:58] <florian> But I try once more now
[18:00] <dobey> anyway, if you have the data backed up, it can be restored, yes; i have done so many times
[18:04] <florian> Yes I believe but I want to test if a full restore will bring app data lso for other apps and programs
[18:04] <florian> Its more or les my interest in an UT backup app which I promted here already a few weeks ago :)
[18:10] <sil2100> Oh, that would be quite handy
[18:11] <florian> Ok I managed tomount the system.img with qemu tools and was able to resize it. lets se if it worked
[18:33] <SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
[18:33] <SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
[18:33] <SebthreeBQM10HD> so uhmm
[18:33] <mimecar> hi SebthreeBQM10HD
[18:33] <SebthreeBQM10HD> my tablet has been on 10.1 for quite a long time since certain reasons, and I was thinking oh should upgrade soon to OTA 11 really, since 12 was about to be released
[18:34] <SebthreeBQM10HD> 12 I think is probably even out now in fact!
[18:34] <SebthreeBQM10HD> so I thought I could just install the updates the security ones first, then install OTA 11, however earlier when doing that, it just said I was updated, and no OTA update there
[18:34] <SebthreeBQM10HD> now I just seen there's a OTA update, version 5, which I assume is OTA 12 not 11 ?
[18:35] <SebthreeBQM10HD> mimecar, hi
[18:35]  * SebthreeBQM10HD may just have to miss out on using OTA 11 on this tablet I guess :d
[18:35] <SebthreeBQM10HD> wanted to just try test out a bit really, it seems 12 has actsual features I want so
[18:36] <SebthreeBQM10HD> mimecar, are you new here? I don't remember seeing your nick here before
[18:36] <sil2100> SebthreeBQM10HD: hey! Let me check the version numbers for you real quick
[18:36] <sil2100> SebthreeBQM10HD: yes, so version 5 for the cooler device (so M10 HD) is OTA-12
[18:37] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I think it just goes to the latest OTA on updates, so even if upating from a really old versibson, won't have to go through each one before that?
[18:37] <sil2100> Yes
[18:37] <sil2100> It actually applies all the updates
[18:37] <SebthreeBQM10HD> sil2100, h eh right ok, so as I put then, I basically lost my chance at using OTA 11 then?  however of course those OTA 11 updates should be in 12 anyway, with newer things
[18:37] <sil2100> So in your case, if you upgrade now, what the updater does is download OTA-11 and OTA-12 and applies them sequentially
[18:37] <SebthreeBQM10HD> oh how does it do that?
[18:38] <SebthreeBQM10HD> or you mean it will up date to OTA 11 first? then I Have to update myself to OTA 12?
[18:38] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but both will be downloaded
[18:38] <sil2100> Yes, there's no way of telling the updater to just use an earlier update instead of the latest, it always checks the latest one and updates all the earlier ones on his path leading to the latest
[18:38] <sil2100> No no, it will do it with one swoop
[18:38] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ok so OTA 11 will be skipped as I thought
[18:39] <sil2100> So once you get an update notification, after the update you get OTA-12 in the end
[18:39] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but the features will be in OTA 12 anwyay with newer features so
[18:39] <SebthreeBQM10HD> the OTA 11 features
[18:39] <sil2100> Yeah, in a sense it's skipped, but all the things from OTA-11 are in the OTA-12 image you'll upgrade to
[18:39]  * SebthreeBQM10HD has to upgrade to 12 soon really for sure, since if I am correct the on screen keyboard will now work with LIbertine even :d ?
[18:40] <SebthreeBQM10HD> did copy and paste and clickable links or one of htem make it in to, or is that 13 ?
[18:40] <sil2100> I do not have a tablet device but from what I know the OSK now works ;) Saw a landing for that some time ago
[18:40] <SebthreeBQM10HD> sil2100, your one of the actsaul Ubuntu Touch devs aren't you?  on the proper team? I saw some video a old one the other week a bit from last year actsually
[18:40] <bregma> SebthreeBQM10HD, copy and paste is still a work in progress (but I have witnessed the progress)
[18:41] <SebthreeBQM10HD> bregma, yeah I was htinking something like that, but it might make it into OTA 13 ?
[18:41] <bregma> SebthreeBQM10HD, unlikely, since freeze for OTA-13 is in a week or so and the copy-and-paste only just entered testing
[18:41] <bregma> so, possibly, but I would not bet on it
[18:41] <sil2100> SebthreeBQM10HD: yeah, for touch I have more like a 'release manager'-ish role, maintaining the infrastructure of updates and package landings
[18:42] <SebthreeBQM10HD> sil2100, so even if I was to eventaully update my BQ Aquarious 4.5 phone, which is on a old version based on Ubuntu 14.10 still actsaully, since I thought had lost, and don't use that phone as such anymore as well, but if I Was to do that, bang it would go straight to the latest OTA update ?
[18:42] <SebthreeBQM10HD> even on a newer base ?
[18:43] <sil2100> SebthreeBQM10HD: yes, it should update fine
[18:43] <florian> dobey, sry had to reboot ;)
[18:43] <SebthreeBQM10HD> sil2100, no need to go through the previous versions,  ok
[18:44] <florian> It seems the emulator does not like modified qcow images... it wont start after resizing. So I will now just try .local and hope the directory is not too big to be restored
[18:44] <sil2100> SebthreeBQM10HD: ...I mean, in *theory* it should update fine ;) Since the 14.10 rtm base is really old, maybe the system-image client on the device is too old or something
[18:44] <sil2100> SebthreeBQM10HD: that would be actually a valid test case
[18:45]  * SebthreeBQM10HD likes keeping that phone on such a old versoin for now, since sometimes can show people progress still
[18:45] <sil2100> SebthreeBQM10HD: if not, then I would recommend just doing an ubuntu-device-flash to get the latest bits
[18:45] <sil2100> But yeah, we won't know until someone tries that!
[18:45] <SebthreeBQM10HD> well it was  last updated in like June or maybe May last year that phone, but yes that's old in open source terms :D
[18:45] <sil2100> ;)
[18:46]  * SebthreeBQM10HD should buy a wireless adapter for convergence to !
[18:46] <davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: today is old in opensource terms ;)
[18:46] <SebthreeBQM10HD> sil2100, most people probably aren't on such a old version on that phone as well :d
[18:46] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but I am :D
[18:47] <SebthreeBQM10HD> thing is if a factory re set was done
[18:47] <SebthreeBQM10HD> it would restore the old version the even older version
[18:47] <popey> factory reset restores current version
[18:47] <popey> it doesn't go backwards
[18:47] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I thought it re stored the shipped versibion
[18:47] <popey> nope
[18:47] <SebthreeBQM10HD> whatever version was shipped on the phone by default
[18:47] <popey> that's long gone after an OTA
[18:48] <SebthreeBQM10HD> hmm
[18:48] <SebthreeBQM10HD> well there hasn't exactlly been much malware or in thorey or attmpted malware for UBuntu touch yet....
[18:48]  * SebthreeBQM10HD remmbers popey 's speech :D
[18:48] <popey> one I'm aware of
[18:48] <davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: Nope it basically just removes the writable data from the system so you are left with just the readonly part
[18:48] <popey> :)
[18:48] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but  let's say something got in
[18:48] <SebthreeBQM10HD> infected the whole system pretty much
[18:49] <SebthreeBQM10HD> then re storing factry reset would re install the infected OS ?
[18:49] <popey> not sure it's worth going over that non-existent hypothetical
[18:49] <SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, yes that one you did a speech about, but other than that, probably nothing or as such
[18:50] <SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, I see, so factory re set does not re store a 4.10 versibion as popey was saying, instead it restores whatever the OTA version was
[18:51] <popey> that's what i said, yes.
[18:51] <dobey> SebthreeBQM10HD: well, the system is readonly, and "factory reset" just deletes all the data from the writable portion. so if the readonly portion of the system is infected, it's your fault for making it writable :)
[18:51] <SebthreeBQM10HD> and that's fine as long as the actsual OS part doesnt get infected then, as I was saying
[18:51] <davmor2> dobey: that's what I said ;)
[18:51] <dobey> i don't think factory reset actually "restores" anything
[18:51] <SebthreeBQM10HD> or it is, untll some malware, makes it read writeable :D
[18:51] <davmor2> and popey in his own way too :)
[18:51] <dobey> davmor2: yes yes, we all agreee
[18:52] <dobey> SebthreeBQM10HD: well, such malware would need to know your password/pin for the device already
[18:52] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but yes upgrading from a old 4.10 base to something recent, or trying to could be interesting :d
[18:52] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I'll tell you in about a year maybe sil2100 h eh
[18:52] <davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: all the apps are confined and have no permissions to write to the read only
[18:52] <dobey> and it would have to break apparmor confinement i think
[18:52] <sil2100> hah ;)
[18:53]  * SebthreeBQM10HD does intend to just keep that phone on a old versibion now, as said it's not really used  anymore so yeah.  however eventually may want to upgrade to something on that as well
[18:53]  * sil2100 jumps out to the garage now
[18:53] <sil2100> brb
[18:53] <popey> o/
[18:53] <davmor2> sil2100: no don't jump it's a long way down
[18:53] <SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, untill someone finds a way to break the permissions ?
[18:55] <dobey> SebthreeBQM10HD: well, if you actively use such an old version, then you should know it also has plenty of security holes that have since been fixed
[18:55] <SebthreeBQM10HD> dobey, indeed to that
[18:55] <SebthreeBQM10HD> dobey, but no I    just turn that phone on sometimes and that's about it, showed someone a old versobin at my LUG the other month :d
[18:56] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I thought I had lost that phone last summer in fact
[18:56] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ,but it turns out I Hadn't luckily :)
[18:56] <SebthreeBQM10HD> well ok I had, but that was in the house, not outside so :)
[18:56] <SebthreeBQM10HD> had been travling and .....
[18:57]  * SebthreeBQM10HD remembers to insall each OTA update on at least one device, if going to actsually try that OTA update, from now on :D
[18:58] <SebthreeBQM10HD> why did no OTA come up earlier though when I did updates?
[18:58] <popey> phased over 24 hours
[18:58] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I guess since OTA 12 was coming to the server, but not ready yet ?
[18:58] <popey> as always
[18:59] <SebthreeBQM10HD> said my tablet was up to date even :d, which wasn't quite true h eh, well for usual updates yes, but not OTA
[18:59] <SebthreeBQM10HD> since 10.1
[18:59]  * SebthreeBQM10HD will upgrade to OTA 12 a bit later :D
[18:59] <popey> yeah, phased updates will do that
[18:59] <SebthreeBQM10HD> on tablet
[19:00] <SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, yes it makes sense, since there is no update for them to see at the time so
[19:00] <SebthreeBQM10HD> for the program to
[19:01] <SebthreeBQM10HD> and now for another question :D
[19:01] <SebthreeBQM10HD> how long is the standard versibsion of Ubuntu Touch, going to likely be based on Ubuntu 15.04. I know that updating to 16.04 would break certain things
[19:02] <SebthreeBQM10HD> and I assume there is no advantage really in trying to update it to 16.10 when that's released.  maybe 17.04 though.  15.04  untill the desktop versibion becomes much more like the phone anyway maybe or ?
[19:02] <popey> nope
[19:02] <popey> it will break
[19:02] <SebthreeBQM10HD> which ?
[19:02] <popey> the software stack
[19:02] <popey> if you upgrade to 16.04/16.10 etc
[19:02] <SebthreeBQM10HD> it seems want to start basing Ubuntu Touch on LTS versions in the future to
[19:03] <SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, yep exactly
[19:03] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but can't stay on 15.04 for ever so
[19:03] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ?
[19:03] <popey> you're not on 15.04 really
[19:03] <popey> it's 15.04 + a ton of backported bits
[19:03] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I know it's based on Ubuntu 15.04, with a load of changes
[19:03] <dobey> yes
[19:03] <kenvandine> in fact the phone is closer to yakkety than to vivid :)
[19:03] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but the base would eventally get updated to a later version ?
[19:03] <dobey> but ubuntu 16.04 is just ubuntu 6.04 with 10 years of changes on top of it too :)
[19:03] <kenvandine> besides the systemd stuff
[19:03] <kenvandine> lol
[19:04] <mimecar> xD
[19:04] <SebthreeBQM10HD> the phone and tablet base would eventaully get based on a later version though, such as 18.04 possibly I guess?  I guess 15.04 base with all these changes is here to stay at least another year maybe two ?
[19:04] <dobey> SebthreeBQM10HD: yes, we obviuosly want to get moved up to xenial base, as was stated at the last UOS
[19:05] <dobey> SebthreeBQM10HD: however, it's not a trivial thing to do, and there are still lots of decisions to be made about how that will play out, but we're working on it
[19:05] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I am not a dev, but I assume that once the Ubuntu Desktop becomes much more like the phone and tablet anyway, that it will be easier to have them being rathe similar to each other ?
[19:05] <dobey> they are already built from the same source trees
[19:06] <dobey> so i don't see how they could be "more similar" in that respect really
[19:06] <SebthreeBQM10HD> basing on 16.04 the base, is only going to happen with proper reason I guess though?  otherwise I guess that may just be skipped and carry on like now ?
[19:07] <SebthreeBQM10HD> if there is no proper reason in basing on a newer one I mean ?
[19:07] <SebthreeBQM10HD> if it breaks to much etc
[19:07] <dobey> well if 16.04 was gcc 4.9, it would have been done already. but since gcc5 happened last year, it presented a lot of problems making upgrade a lot more difficult
[19:07] <SebthreeBQM10HD> dobey, oh gcc version, is that a main reason
[19:08] <SebthreeBQM10HD> a later Ubuntu Desktop will of course get that version though :d
[19:08] <dobey> yes, gcc5 broke binary compat
[19:08] <dobey> so it's a very big reason
[19:08] <SebthreeBQM10HD> basing on 16.10 might be a little silly to some extent, but maybe would make sense. I mean instead of putting the main version of Ubuntu touch on a 16.04 base
[19:08] <dobey> no, basing on any non-lts version is a bad idea, really
[19:09] <SebthreeBQM10HD> why since then, got to do even more own updates ?
[19:09] <SebthreeBQM10HD> that woudn't be in the desktop since end of life
[19:09] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I have this feeling that maybe the 15.04 base is here to stay, untill the next LTS actually, 18.04?
[19:10] <kenvandine> very unlikely
[19:10] <SebthreeBQM10HD> when is the base likely to get changed ?
[19:10] <SebthreeBQM10HD> to 16.04 base then
[19:10] <SebthreeBQM10HD> another year or ?
[19:10] <kenvandine> as soon as possible :)
[19:10] <kenvandine> but it's a lot of work
[19:11] <SebthreeBQM10HD> kenvandine, yes I Reolise it's a lot of work and it will break certain things etc, hence why it hasn't happended yet
[19:11] <SebthreeBQM10HD> kenvandine, but do you say as soon as possible, whilst being an actsaul dev of UBuntu touch or :D ?
[19:11] <kenvandine> yup
[19:11] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ok :)
[19:12] <kenvandine> we're working towards that
[19:12] <SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah I read that there's like a
[19:12] <SebthreeBQM10HD> well a few channels really for updats etc?
[19:12] <SebthreeBQM10HD> the standard one that this tablet will be on.
[19:13] <dobey> you can run 16.04 if you want, but very few things work on it
[19:14] <florian> dobey: I restored now the whole .local dir. Do I need to reboot after that? Because e.g. messages is til empty
[19:14] <dobey> florian: yes
[19:14] <florian> Ok lets see
[19:14] <dobey> florian: you need to reboot immediately after restoring the files
[19:16] <SebthreeBQM10HD> kenvandine, back some uh isues with the xchat gnome that stopped me typing
[19:16] <SebthreeBQM10HD> so a like stable channel, rc propsed where most of the early action happens
[19:17] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but also a proper dev  one I belive, based on 16.04, where things  will be uh breaking for now
[19:17] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ?
[19:17] <SebthreeBQM10HD> before that one based on 15.10 a dev  ?
[19:18] <kenvandine> i wouldn't recommend running anything that's not based on 15.04
[19:18] <SebthreeBQM10HD> indeed to that
[19:18] <SebthreeBQM10HD> or for now
[19:18] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I won't be going to the dev channel if that's what you were thinking
[19:19] <kenvandine> we don't even run the devel channel :)
[19:19] <SebthreeBQM10HD> h eh yeah it's that un stable is it ?
[19:19] <SebthreeBQM10HD> stable, breaking things not working right
[19:19] <kenvandine> probably unusable
[19:19] <SebthreeBQM10HD> h eh you don't even use....
[19:20] <kenvandine> our development happens on rc-proposed
[19:20] <SebthreeBQM10HD> yes I gathered that
[19:20] <SebthreeBQM10HD> or mos of it does
[19:20] <SebthreeBQM10HD> what's the devel for then?  the later base, see what happens ?
[19:22] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ?
[19:22] <SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah I guess so
[19:22] <SebthreeBQM10HD> like some article I read even seemed to say :D before h eh
[19:24] <dobey> make sure it keeps building mostly
[19:25] <SebthreeBQM10HD> dobey, on  a new base or wahtever ?
[19:25] <SebthreeBQM10HD> the devl is 16. 04 ?
[19:26] <dobey> yes, devel-proposed is 16.04
[19:26] <SebthreeBQM10HD> in another distro  rc-proposed to me means like,  the qa updates
[19:26] <SebthreeBQM10HD> testing of what will become security updates etc
[19:27] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I guess same kind of thing here
[19:27] <dobey> don't think about channel naming too hard
[19:27] <SebthreeBQM10HD> well I am thinkoing what propesed means etc
[19:27] <SebthreeBQM10HD> really
[19:27] <SebthreeBQM10HD> or in the context
[19:27] <SebthreeBQM10HD> how many chanenls are there for UBuntu touch anyway?
[19:28]  * SebthreeBQM10HD hasn't changed channel so
[19:28] <dobey> it means exactly what it menas
[19:28] <dobey> proposed
[19:28] <SebthreeBQM10HD> to come yeah
[19:29] <SebthreeBQM10HD> does devel-propsed get things from a devel channel?   rc release canddiate?  rc-proposed would get form some where else  or have things put in directly I guess, to then later go into the stabel version
[19:29] <dobey> like i said, don't think too hard about it
[19:30]  * SebthreeBQM10HD enjoys OTA 12 later after an update :D 
[19:50] <mimecar> Is there any list of applications that should have Ubuntu Touch? I have seen one in UAPP Explorer but do not know if it's the only one.
[19:50] <mimecar> I thought develop an application this summer
[19:51] <GarettMcCarty> I need google apps so i dont know what i am gonna do when i get ubuntu touch :c
[20:03] <dobey> GarettMcCarty: "need google apps" in what context?
[20:06] <hwk> hi, any tips on how preset a ubuntu touch image with openssh service enabled, wlan0 configured and use the phone a mini server?
[20:07] <hwk> it has a broken digitezer (half of it) -- no posibility to tap next on the initial setup screen
[20:08] <GarettMcCarty> I believe you would have to edit the ubuntu rootfs and then reflash it
[20:08] <hwk> on android i remove the setupwizzard app, boot up, set bluetooth (mouse + kb) , rename the app back and run the steps with mouse support
[20:09] <hwk> no problems, tired of patching & building kernels :D
[20:11] <dobey> you can flash and skip the setup wizard with ubuntu-device-flash
[20:12] <dobey> and enable developer mode for it, and adb in and enable ssh, easily enough
[20:12] <hwk> i think i need to patch the kernel for ubuntu-touch to get usb-otg with external power
[20:13] <dobey> huh?
[20:18] <hwk> this is the context http://forum.xda-developers.com/nexus-4/orig-development/usb-otg-externally-powered-usb-otg-t2181820 and this are the actual changes which need to be done on the ubuntu-touch kernel https://github.com/android/kernel_msm/commit/d148585787ea35a65f049533a77854450445f3c2
[20:18] <hwk> but for that device i saw that its supported and maybe the maintainer already applied it
[20:19] <hwk> im no c programmer but i think i can manage to comment some lines :)
[20:19] <dobey> what does otg have to do with enabling ssh?
[20:20] <hwk> need some IO for external storage
[20:21] <hwk> network storage server :)
[20:21] <dobey> well external storage works for me ok with otg
[20:21] <dobey> i plug in my mp3 player and the songs show up in ubuntu :)
[20:23] <hwk> the nexus4 lacks native support (no power output), that why i need that kernel patch so usb host mode detection is achived using a workaround
[20:23] <hwk> that way i can use a mouse on the initial setup screen (maybe)
[20:24] <hwk> but using it as server by enabling ssh on already build image seems faster for now :)
[20:26] <dobey> you want external power anyway
[20:27] <hwk> yeah, the usb hub im using has a 1gb ethernet card embeded which is useful
[20:37] <hwk> any clue on where can i find the sources for mako?
[20:39] <t-ask> There is no dark theme for the phone, or?
[20:39] <t-ask> I can't get to sleep if that phone UI is light like day, hehe
[20:48] <dobey> t-ask: there are no "themes" for the phone, no
[20:49] <florian_> dobey: sorry to say but my restore of .local gets ignored in the emulator
[20:49] <dobey> hwk: see the porting guide in the topic i guess
[20:50] <dobey> florian_: ok. well anyway, backup features are being worked on :)
[20:50] <florian_> :) Is it working on a real phone? I have a huge problem with my bq having lost the touch screen mre or less
[20:50] <florian_> I need to have a phone anyway soon again
[20:51] <hwk> it scares me that i need to fetch 15 gb of repo data , uhm, i think multirom is booting on top of my existing  android kernel (which contains the required drivers)
[20:51] <florian_> whats interesting is that the emulator has none of my files in .local
[20:51] <florian_> its like all my rsync has vanished
[20:52] <florian_> what is the correct way of rebooting it? I have to close the window forcefully as reboot/shutdown hangs forever
[20:53] <dobey> florian_: i have no idea about the technical details of the emulator
[20:54] <dobey> florian_: it's en emulator, so the storage is very possibly just ramdisk and when emulator shuts down it all goes away
[20:54] <florian_> but it remembers that I did the introduction for example
[20:54] <dobey> florian_: you'd have to ask someone who works on the emulator though about that
[20:54] <dobey> i don't know enough about the emulator to answer
[20:54] <florian_> ok nevermind good night :)
[20:56] <pmcgowan> florian_, there are .img files in .local/share/ubuntu-emulator/nameofemulator
[20:56] <florian_> exactly
[20:57] <florian_> These sdcard.img file grew during rsync so I assume its persisting there
[20:57] <florian_> do I need to make a snapshot before reboot?
[20:58] <pmcgowan> florian_, things should persist but you can certainly do a snapshot
[20:59] <florian_> Now rsync tells me nothing to do, but the files have wrong sizes etc and I am missing directories... whats going on here ;)
[21:01] <dobey> florian_: the sizes might appear wrong due to different "block size" of the fs used
[21:01] <dobey> florian_: ie, on your PC the fs block size is 4096 bytes, but on the phone (and probably in the emulator) it's 512 bytes
[21:07] <florian_> snapshot does not help me... Plus emulator's F7 reboot press is also stuck
[21:07] <florian_> I assume if I kill it then the changes for the disk are lost
[21:08] <florian_> WHy does the addressbook for example not see the changed files immediately without rebooting?
[21:09] <pmcgowan> florian_, have you seen https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Emulator
[21:09] <florian_> yep
[21:09] <pmcgowan> k
[21:09] <pmcgowan> then you know what I know :)
[21:10] <florian_> xD
[21:11] <florian_> shutdown -h now in the emulator does not shut down, this must have been noticed by someone
[21:13] <ahoneybun> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/camera-app/+bug/1607028
[21:14] <florian_> it worked!
[21:14] <florian_> dobey: All is good, except that you never shall kill the emulator just by closing the window
[21:14] <florian_> seems to revert all recent changes
[21:14] <pmcgowan> hmm
[21:15] <dobey> florian_: makes sense
[21:15] <florian_> cool I got my contacts !
[21:15] <pmcgowan> ahoneybun, did you do a wipe on that install?
[21:16] <ahoneybun> pmcgowan: yep
[21:17] <ahoneybun> I'm thinking now I should try a rebooot for the heck of it
[21:17] <ahoneybun> pmcgowan: added that I used the wipe option
[21:17] <ahoneybun> to the bug report
[21:18] <pmcgowan> ahoneybun, I just got prompted for audio recording a video
[21:18] <pmcgowan> I recall getting the camera prompt
[21:18] <ahoneybun> well it just keeps spining for me
[21:18] <ahoneybun> the app does not open at all
[21:19] <pmcgowan> oh
[21:19] <ahoneybun> the heck
[21:19] <ahoneybun> now it gave it to me after unlocking
[21:19] <ahoneybun> but just spins
[21:19] <pmcgowan> not many flo users left
[21:20] <ahoneybun> saying I should not report anymore?
[21:20] <florian_> strange, no Telegram in the Emulator, and also it is not in the store...
[21:20] <ahoneybun> tbh I do miss android on this
[21:20] <ahoneybun> as a media device this thing is awesome
[21:20] <ahoneybun> pmcgowan: Canonical needs to send me a M10 to have at my LoCo events then lol
[21:21] <pmcgowan> I will see what i can do :)
[21:21] <ahoneybun> you must be joking
[21:21] <ahoneybun> please don't lol
[21:21] <ahoneybun> I would LOVE one
[21:21] <ahoneybun> I want to get rid of my 15in laptop
[21:22] <k1l> iirc there is the community budget from the donations from the ubuntu.com website
[21:22] <ahoneybun> yea but hardware is different
[21:22] <pmcgowan> yea
[21:22] <ahoneybun> I've used the fund for my LoCo before
[21:23] <pmcgowan> florian_, are you running x86 emulator? lots of apps do not have builds for that which we are chasing
[21:23] <ahoneybun> the M10 would be perfect now with OTA12 for College and University events
[21:23] <k1l> iirc they bought some phone stuff to show on conferences with that.
[21:23] <florian_> pmcgowan: yes its i386
[21:23] <florian_> ok clear
[21:29] <PaulFraOSAA> So If i made a QML file, and would want to run this on my tablet, what should I put in a .desktop file and what other files should I edit on the tablet as well? (RTFM links welcome, I just haven't found any)
[21:30] <dobey> PaulFraOSAA: you want to make a pure qml app for running on tablet/phone?
[21:31] <PaulFraOSAA> dobey, I just want to run a qml file with qmlscene to see it
[21:32] <PaulFraOSAA> I can't even run it from the command line :(
[21:33] <dobey> qmlscene --desktop_file_hint=/usr/share/applications/webbrowser-app.desktop foo.qml
[21:34] <PaulFraOSAA> Wow, that actually worked!!
[21:38] <PaulFraOSAA> Now it even seems creator is working for untiy8, so I'm really looking forward to using my tablet for devopment
[21:39] <t-ask> Is this normal that I can't replay webm videos?
[21:43] <t-ask> When rebooting my phone, it always shows that I have an SD card inside? I don't know why? Is there any specific purpose for that?
[21:49] <PaulFraOSAA> t-ask: How do you try to play webm video?
[21:51] <t-ask> Filemanger and clcik it
[21:52] <t-ask> It says no apps installed that support that formatß!
[21:52] <t-ask> I wonder why
[21:53] <t-ask> I guess, the Youtube app plays webm files somehow
[21:54] <PaulFraOSAA> The Youtube app is a browser, so that is the way that works
[21:56] <PaulFraOSAA> t-ask: is it the same when you use the Gallery app?
[21:57] <t-ask> Not sure, I find the Gallery app kind of useless
[21:57] <t-ask> Because I don't know which file is which and where I find my files if I don't even know the date of the video
[21:57] <PaulFraOSAA> A lot of them are, Thats the wonders of using Unity ;)
[21:58] <t-ask> and if thumbnails look almost the same for lets say 30 videos, then it is just not working - for me
[21:59] <t-ask> I can't even sort those Gallery files in a certain manner
[21:59] <t-ask> and if I still don't know which is what eg. :)
[21:59] <PaulFraOSAA> Can you find it in the "My Videos" Scope?
[22:00] <t-ask> another Gallery .)
[22:01] <t-ask> hehe, funny with the scope I might be able to, but no I don't see the extensions :)
[22:02] <t-ask> I guesss I have around 250 videos on it, I can't even group them by date, name, extension, author...
[22:02] <PaulFraOSAA> Hmm, just found a review stating "Webm did not work at all..." but it might have changed,
[22:02] <t-ask> and it seems the scope is not sorting by name..
[22:03] <PaulFraOSAA> Are they on an SD card?
[22:03] <t-ask> internal and SD
[22:04] <PaulFraOSAA> Could you try to copy it to your home dir and unmount the SD card
[22:04] <PaulFraOSAA> So you just have one file
[22:06] <t-ask> interesting the file I am searching for is not listed in My Videos
[22:07] <t-ask> on the other hand I videos I didn't even know they exist, lol
[22:08] <dobey> well, the webm demuxer is available
[22:08] <dobey> but perhaps the codecs used in the file aren't?
[22:08] <dobey> i think there might be something with the way the gstreamer stuff works on the phones/tablet too, where it only really handles what the hardware supports
[22:08] <PaulFraOSAA> I just got a demofile off the web. I got it to play using the scope, sound only, no video
[22:09] <dobey> and iirc, none of the devices support webm in the hardware
[22:09] <t-ask> I most likely downloaded that file wid voutube-dl on Arch
[22:11] <SebthreeBQM10HD> h eh I just been on the offical ubuntu .com devices phone page, and wow it looks so awesome
[22:11] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I mean yeah
[22:11] <SebthreeBQM10HD> so awesome
[22:11] <dobey> hmm, yeah, something weird with webm. copied a file over from a steam game, and only audio plays
[22:11] <SebthreeBQM10HD> all the current Ubuntu phones  that are available it says are sold out, which I knew already sure, but it's just how the page has it like that h eh h eh
[22:11] <SebthreeBQM10HD> in it's way
[22:12]  * SebthreeBQM10HD might buy the MX 6 Ubuntu when available
[22:13] <dobey> anyway, time to get away from the computer
[22:13] <dobey> later
[22:14] <t-ask> I guess, the My Videos gallery is not listing internal vids
[22:15] <t-ask> I guess, the lagrge movie files playback is not fixed, or?
[22:16] <t-ask> or is it that the filemanager openeing the Mediaplayer is just not working
[22:17] <t-ask> ok, "Low on disc space" warning after 1min
[22:18] <ogra_> t-ask, dont use the filemanager for *any* media playback, it has a bug that tries to first copy the file to the app workdir
[22:18] <t-ask> then I guess, it was copying the file to a tmp folder and now internal / is full and therefore can't playback the file
[22:18] <ogra_> use the scopes
[22:18] <t-ask> is the auther aware of that bug?
[22:19] <ogra_> dunno ...
[22:19] <t-ask> I can't use scopes.. or is ther one which I mess?
[22:19] <ogra_> it is logged in launchpad somewhere
[22:20] <SebthreeBQM10HD> hi ogra_ :)
[22:20] <SebthreeBQM10HD> and others who are around :d
[22:20] <ogra_> hey ...
[22:21] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I uhmm
[22:21] <SebthreeBQM10HD> wasa just thinking....
[22:21] <SebthreeBQM10HD> after reading the omgubuntu article about ota 12
[22:21] <SebthreeBQM10HD> how old is the Firefox version anyway really?  they got that it's old in brackets on there
[22:21] <SebthreeBQM10HD> is that old and without security updates, or just old, but with security updates ?
[22:24] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ogra_,  ????
[22:24] <t-ask> ogra_: not sure if you read my remarkes before on scopes. I can't really use them or the Gallery becasue eitehr I can't find the files, they aren't listed or everything looks the same and no filenames, ...
[22:25] <ogra_> SebthreeBQM10HD, well, it is an EOL release ...
[22:25] <ogra_> t-ask, well...
[22:26] <ogra_> (i guess the designers never had devices with 100s of videos when they created the UI design for teh scopes :) )
[22:26] <ogra_> in any case dont use the filemanager ...
[22:27] <ogra_> you just end up with endless copies
[22:27] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ogra_, it's a old 2015 arm version isn't it ?
[22:27] <SebthreeBQM10HD> or maybe even 2014 ?
[22:27] <ogra_> SebthreeBQM10HD, it is vivid ... for the rest of the distro it is discontinued ...
[22:28] <t-ask> mybe someone could rotoate the gallery 90° clockwise and let users up and down each section(column).. and then add a filter option or categories option for name, date, size, author, storage type, encoder, eg...
[22:28] <ogra_> which means Xapps are all old
[22:28] <SebthreeBQM10HD> so the firefox on the tablet is just a old verison
[22:28] <SebthreeBQM10HD> not supported
[22:28] <ogra_> right
[22:28] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ogra_, yeah I gathered all along when I First looked at them on tablet
[22:28] <SebthreeBQM10HD> that it's old stuff
[22:28] <SebthreeBQM10HD> from like 2015 maybe 2014
[22:28] <ogra_> there is work going on to move to 16.04 ... but that will still take a while
[22:28] <SebthreeBQM10HD> so really using firefox on the tablet
[22:29] <SebthreeBQM10HD> is insecure ?
[22:29] <SebthreeBQM10HD> or for certain things
[22:29] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ogra_, I guess I thought that it had some kind of update, never really though of it much, but that the versibon itself was old yes
[22:29] <t-ask> ogra_: well if you download playlists of tutorials, you easily get hundreds of files
[22:31] <t-ask> and having 30 tubs whic all shows the tutorial's sourcefile as thumb... it is getting tedious, hehe#
[22:32] <t-ask> it is even better if the author did all his files on different dates, and they mix up with other tutorials happening the same time
[22:32] <t-ask> then scops are just a mess ,)
[22:34] <t-ask> Where is My Scops looking for vids? I miss internal ones in /media/videos
[22:35] <t-ask> or is ther another app I could use for that purpose?
[22:36] <SebthreeBQM10HD> t-ask,  I think there might be some kind of other video player, since I wass looking at the app store hte other week for video apps
[22:41] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ogra_, hmm why wasn't a Firefox updated backported or whatever?  since thats libertine or arm so differnet ?
[22:41] <ogra_> vivid simply doesnt recieve any updates anymore apart from snappy and the phone ... firefox belongs into neither realm here
[22:42] <bregma> SebthreeBQM10HD, it's because those devices are running a distribution derived from Vivid Vervet, and no one had backported newer Firefox to it
[22:42] <bregma> which is sad, because there is an important bug fixed in later versions
[22:42] <ogra_> bregma, well, move to xenial ;)
[22:42] <SebthreeBQM10HD> bregma, well that's a bit sucky really
[22:43] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but I supous only early adopters have FIrefox like that anyway so far, such as me :D
[22:43] <bregma> ogra_, someone is working on it
[22:43] <SebthreeBQM10HD> or mostly
[22:43] <ogra_> yep
[22:43] <SebthreeBQM10HD> xenial you mean 16.04 :D ?
[22:43] <ogra_> right
[22:43] <bregma> SebthreeBQM10HD, yes, it would make our lives easier
[22:43] <ogra_> that has 5 years of support so firefox will recieve updates for quite some time still
[22:43] <SebthreeBQM10HD> after the things that break, are fixed you mean ?
[22:43] <SebthreeBQM10HD> the thing that will breka ubuntu touch
[22:43] <ogra_> well
[22:43] <SebthreeBQM10HD> things
[22:44] <bregma> SebthreeBQM10HD, yes, things break on Touch using Xenial right now, that's why the delay
[22:44] <SebthreeBQM10HD> yes as you hav told me before
[22:44] <SebthreeBQM10HD> seems gcc is an issue for example as well going by earlier the version of
[22:44]  * bregma is glad he's not working on that
[22:44] <ogra_> one problem is that many bits of the phone were very deeply tied into upstart ...
[22:44] <ogra_> then we switched the distro to systemd
[22:44] <SebthreeBQM10HD> so someone will have to hack some work arounds or whatever to get 16.04 working nicely for phone and tablets ?
[22:44] <bregma> oooh, he used the s* word
[22:44] <ogra_> there is a lot of porting work to be done still
[22:45] <ogra_> hah
[22:45] <SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah, but let's be honest here :D
[22:45] <SebthreeBQM10HD> the
[22:45] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Ubuntu going to system d thing well
[22:45] <SebthreeBQM10HD> was mostly since DEbian did right ?
[22:46] <ogra_> indeed
[22:46] <ogra_> we dont have enough people to patch each and every package to keep it running with upstart ...
[22:46] <SebthreeBQM10HD> what would system d break for phone and tablet really?
[22:46] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ogra_, I forget if your a paid dev, or just community person :D
[22:47] <ogra_> both :)
[22:47] <SebthreeBQM10HD> well yeah  most distros have gone to System D
[22:47] <SebthreeBQM10HD> not just DEbian
[22:47] <t-ask> :)
[22:47] <t-ask> < Arch ,)
[22:47] <t-ask> it is not our fault *hehe
[22:48] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ogra_,patch like every package you mean in a otherwise systemd version of ubuntu? h eh yeah indeed to that I Guess to the lack of people to do that h eh
[22:48] <bregma> systemd is no worse than upstart in terms of the software, although I disagree with their design decision on binary logs
[22:49] <bregma> I understand the people behind it can be a little difficult sometimes
[22:49] <t-ask> I kind of like it
[22:49] <t-ask> so many nice 'well hidden' features .)
[22:49] <ogra_> yeah, there is nothing wrong with systemd
[22:50] <ogra_> i would have preferred to stay with upstart ...
[22:50] <ogra_> but all our packages come from debian ... and they decided
[22:50] <bregma> I'm also annoyed I have to learn a new system after only just learning upstart and forgetting decades of using init.d
[22:50] <t-ask> and in the end it is woth it, imho
[22:50] <bregma> I must be getting old
[22:51] <ogra_> well, its an init system
[22:51] <bregma> systemd still has not good support for session management, which was a great feature of upstart
[22:51] <ogra_> way to much fuss is made over it given that it is just that :)
[22:51] <bregma> I understand someone is working on that, but the people I knew who were doing that rage quit in frustration
[22:52] <hwk> is it possible to run systemd in chroot?
[22:52] <bregma> I have no idea who is working on systemd session management now
[22:52] <ogra_> we still have upstart for session mgmt....
[22:52] <t-ask> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Systemd-nspawn ;)
[22:52] <SebthreeBQM10HD> h ey it's Debian,  you were making some nice progress with your upstart for ubuntu on your phones and tablets, but well there won't be any debian phones or tablets  it seems, so we will start trying to break your phone and tablet, by changing to systemd from your up start, h eh
[22:52] <ogra_> anyway ... much offtopic for this channel :)
[22:53] <t-ask> not really, you might be able to use nspawn for touch then .)
[22:53] <ogra_> shudder
[22:53] <t-ask> hehe .)
[22:54] <ogra_> we have something proper (lxd) ... no need for such hacks :)
[22:54] <ogra_> anyway ...
[22:54] <t-ask> it comes with virtual fs
[22:54]  * ogra_ goes afk ...
[22:54] <ogra_> 1am is late enough to end my workday
[22:54] <t-ask> I mean, it is written in the wiki
[22:57] <hwk> seems more outside the family
[23:42] <SebthreeBQM10HD> bregma, ping if about, and if so quick question....