[03:39] <bluesabre> flocculant: not a lot of changes needed... in fact, I cannot find changes to the actual text. Added/removed spaces, added reference links, and "later: XPL" is not needed in this version since its never referred to again (assuming it is appropriately dropped from the remainder of the SD)
[03:40] <Unit193> I thought it interesting 'users' was used in it once, but never again.  Seems...Interesting.
[03:49] <bluesabre> Unit193: feel free to make changes if you think it helps :)
[03:49] <Unit193> You see what I saw though, no?
[03:50]  * bluesabre reviews again
[03:50] <bluesabre> ah
[03:50] <bluesabre> yeah, hm
[03:53] <bluesabre> should ~xubuntu-users be more or less empowered here, can they only signal -team to vote or is it reasonable that they can reach out to the CC to stop/advance changes
[03:54] <bluesabre> to the extent that users can act is not entirely clear with this document
[03:54] <bluesabre> Unit193: is that how you see it as well?
[03:57] <Unit193> Users should certinly poke contributors, yes.  Why they would go directly to the CC is byond me, because if you have to remove the whole team, well, then you have no more people to work on Xubuntu and a successful coup.
[04:01] <bluesabre> indeed
[06:17] <flocculant> Unit193: did you change it then? 
[06:18] <Unit193> Didn't want to in case it was intentional, figured it was so didn't want to go changing it on you.
[06:19] <flocculant> I'd rather you changed things there than we have to start with loads of fiddling of mp :)
[06:19] <flocculant> it's not *my* sd - it's everyones 
[06:19] <Unit193> Sure, I just like discussing things rather than randomly change something on someone.  Might be a good reason.  Also words are hard.
[06:20] <flocculant> :)
[07:12] <flocculant> well that's a new one on me ... can't upgrade xubuntu-default-settings as it has an unresolvable dependency
[07:13] <flocculant> needed dist-upgrade for some reason
[07:19] <Unit193> You're using the daily PPA then.  It pulled in dbus-user-session.
[07:25] <flocculant> aah right
[07:26] <flocculant> didn't think about that - x-d-s not upgrading threw me completely :)
[10:25] <bluesabre> morning all
[10:28] <akxwi-dave> morning
[11:25] <flocculant> morning bluesabre 
[11:26] <flocculant> still not sure what you and Unit193 want to change, because no-one did :p
[11:27] <knome> flocculant, i just kind of finished making the council pad more literal
[11:27] <knome> flocculant, re: the team having the ultimate say, i think i've written that in a less harsh way now
[11:28] <flocculant> ack
[11:28] <knome> i agree that three people - whether they were the ones in the council or not - should be allowed to change the direction of the project if all others disagree
[11:28] <knome> otoh, the council *needs* to have some "power", like the XPL, to be able to steer the ship to where they want to
[11:28] <flocculant> of course 
[11:29] <knome> ultimately, the council is elected from people "inside", so i don't think we will end up in situations where people bloodly disagree - after all, the community picked the council members themself
[11:30] <knome> but please do look at the pad (as i'm sure you're doing) and comment
[11:31] <flocculant> I did :)
[11:32] <flocculant> how does council oversee community? 
[11:32] <knome> that needs rewriting, but what i mean with that is that the council should take care of business related to managing the community
[11:32] <knome> in a good way, not telling people what to do
[11:33] <knome> but enabling the community to do what they do the best
[11:33] <flocculant> so enabling tools so community can be a community? 
[11:33] <knome> yeah
[11:33] <knome> i just changed the paragraph
[11:34] <flocculant> work with sounds better to me
[11:34] <knome> sure
[11:34] <knome> why doesn't that make any sense?
[11:35] <knome> do you mean it's repetition for no sake?
[11:35] <flocculant> no - I mean it doesn't make sense to me :)
[11:35] <knome> right
[11:35] <knome> basically it means that the council technically manages the xubuntu teams on launchpad
[11:35] <flocculant> hang on - I think I know what you mean - must be word(s) missing
[11:36] <knome> that's just a very very technical comment on how the LP bureucracy works
[11:36] <knome> it doesn't really need the last addition
[11:36] <knome> (so removed that for now)
[11:36] <knome> AND
[11:36] <knome> s/for/form/
[11:37] <flocculant> aah yea - makes sense now :)
[11:38] <knome> time for more coffee
[11:39] <flocculant> :)
[11:39] <flocculant> I'm happy with that pad, bluesabre ?
[11:41] <flocculant> knome: will launchpad be as easy as changing xpl to read something else do you know?
[11:42] <knome> yes, team names can be changed on the fly
[11:43] <flocculant> that's the first good thing I've heard about lp for a while :p
[11:43] <knome> (as long as you don't have active PPA's, but ~xpl doesn't)
[11:44] <knome> (so same as with usernames)
[11:45] <flocculant> right
[11:46] <flocculant> just thought I would ask :)
[11:46] <knome> sure
[13:12] <flocculant> Unit193: seems that x-d-s depends on systemd (>= 231-1~) 
[14:03] <bluesabre> knome, flocculant: fixed a minor thing, otherwise looks good to me
[14:29] <flocculant> bluesabre: cheers - that'll do then 
[14:51] <flocculant> https://code.launchpad.net/~flocculant/xubuntu-docs/xpl/+merge/301287
[17:23] <ochosi> evening all
[17:24] <ochosi> caught up on teh meeting notes from last night finally
[17:25] <ochosi> flocculant: while it's good you're not going anywhere, it seems like an appropriate time to thank you for your hard work! i know QA often isn't headline material, but it's so important and much appreciated
[17:25] <ochosi> and welcome akxwi-dave (when he's back)
[17:49] <flocculant> ochosi: thanks :)
[19:05] <Unit193> flocculant: Actually yes I changed it right after talking to you.  Yep, that's the other dep change, though generally systemd was pulled in before while dbus-user-session wasn't.
[19:12] <flocculant> Unit193: seems that systemd 231 is still in -proposed
[19:13] <flocculant> and it all changed later - did mp for the change a while back
[19:14] <Unit193> Yep, noticed.