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Acou_Basshey, nspawn isn't a hack, it's pretty great :D though I've no idea how it'd work alongside Mir and snap etc01:18
vkrishncould someone suggest which version/dvd for http://www.amazon.in/Micromax-LT666W-10-1-inch-Touchscreen-Integrated/dp/B01689FD2Q02:18
vkrishnit supports booting from usb02:18
vkrishncurrently downloading, http://releases.ubuntu.com/16.04.1/ubuntu-16.04.1-desktop-i386.iso02:23
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MasseRThe new-tab optimization fix is noticeable. Thank you very much guys06:41
Jucatoand thanks to much for libertine/desktop apps and fingerprint support on the meizu pro 6!!06:58
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=== sil2100 changed the topic of #ubuntu-touch to: Home: http://bit.ly/YEqEfo | Install: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install | Porting (advanced) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting | Bug filing: http://bit.ly/1aV9AJG | Dashboard: http://bit.ly/12AQV53 | http://www.bq.com/gb/ubuntu.html | https://store.bq.com/en/ubuntu-edition-aquaris-m10 | http://www.ubuntu.com/tablet | OTA-12 released!
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swalladgeIs it just me or are the names for the m10 and m10hd swapped on the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes/OTA-1208:55
swalladgeAFAIK frieza in the full HD version08:55
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SebthreeBQM10HDanyone around and with OTA 12 as well ?09:34
SebthreeBQM10HDom26er, have you got OTA 12?09:36
SebthreeBQM10HDpopey, woo on screen keyboard for Libertine, hoever it doesn't quite work how I had expected09:38
davmor2SebthreeBQM10HD: how would you expect it to work09:41
davmor2SebthreeBQM10HD: it opens when you need to type something09:41
SebthreeBQM10HDdavmor2, well to disappeaar for a start as well, when it should do realy09:41
SebthreeBQM10HDbut instead it stays09:41
SebthreeBQM10HDwell in xchat gnome it does09:42
SebthreeBQM10HDand libre office writer09:42
SebthreeBQM10HDI Just tried those after Firefox,  Firefox seems ok09:42
SebthreeBQM10HDdavmor2, it just stayed and woudn['t go away, when I didn't want it.  I could get rid of it very teorly when on the top right showing like you know the stuff up there09:43
davmor2SebthreeBQM10HD: if the text field has the cursor in then the keyboard is required in order to type09:43
SebthreeBQM10HDdavmor2, it's also massive09:43
SebthreeBQM10HDso in the case of xchat gnome09:43
SebthreeBQM10HDit goes over the whole type area09:43
SebthreeBQM10HDand then can't really see what's been typed on it09:43
davmor2SebthreeBQM10HD: yeap that is in a bug in libertine in that it doesn't move the text field above the keyboard like it does on normal apps known issue09:44
SebthreeBQM10HDthe one on the ipad for example and even Android, is quite good at disappearing when it should do09:44
davmor2SebthreeBQM10HD: it does disappear if you stop highlighting the text field09:45
SebthreeBQM10HDoh bregma isn't here, probably since it's night time for him or very early morning. but I was going to jokingly say:  bregma you need to sort that out09:45
SebthreeBQM10HDthe text filed is always high lighted in xchat gnome though09:45
SebthreeBQM10HDwith it's cursour09:45
SebthreeBQM10HDon here09:45
SebthreeBQM10HDsame with libre office writer I Guess09:46
davmor2SebthreeBQM10HD: tap the window part09:46
SebthreeBQM10HDfrom my limited trying just now,  and since as you say there's some kind of bug as well, seems can only really use firefox with it for now09:46
SebthreeBQM10HDwhat you mean tap the window part?09:47
SebthreeBQM10HDnow back using the bluteooth keyboard by the way, but I could change that09:47
davmor2SebthreeBQM10HD: also you can swipe the keyboard down, the upper part of the irc window where you are reading my comments09:47
SebthreeBQM10HDyou mean move it with the line09:48
SebthreeBQM10HDtheres like a line09:48
SebthreeBQM10HDon the top there09:48
* SebthreeBQM10HD doens't like xchat gnome anyway, but hasn't done the getting more x programs thing so09:49
* SebthreeBQM10HD would use konversation usually on a normal computer09:49
* Jucato couldn't get konversation to run. installs fine ...09:50
SebthreeBQM10HDdavmor2, swip down how?09:51
SebthreeBQM10HDor what you jmean ?09:51
davmor2SebthreeBQM10HD: put your finger at the top of the keyboard and swipe it down09:51
SebthreeBQM10HDJucato, oh you tried09:51
SebthreeBQM10HDdavmor2, or up in that case, since it goes over the text box ?09:52
SebthreeBQM10HDthe typing area09:52
JucatoSebthreeBQM10HD: as in you try to swipe the virtual keyboard down to hide it09:52
SebthreeBQM10HDJucato, yeah that's a bit uh when something seems to install ok, but then doesn't open up etc porperly in general09:52
SebthreeBQM10HDok I'lll try09:52
SebthreeBQM10HDo OK yesthat works09:53
Jucatothat swipe gesture is actually true for the virtual keyboard in general. whether it's libertine or native09:53
SebthreeBQM10HDyes I can swipe down09:54
Jucatoalso, as davmor2 said, the keyboard only pops up if you are in a text input field. tap anywhere else that isn't an input box and it hides09:54
Jucatowhich reminds me. need to install xchat :)09:55
SebthreeBQM10HDwould be nice for it to dissapper in general hen expected to in general to as just mentioned but right that is a bug in libertibe apparently09:55
SebthreeBQM10HDas expected coreting09:56
SebthreeBQM10HDit didn't hide and doesn't when not typing in the text field09:57
Jucatoyou have to tap outside the text field09:57
SebthreeBQM10HDyeah I guess but still really it should know if going to type and if typng09:58
SebthreeBQM10HDnow after swipe thing it ems to be dissapering better but thats after sending a message10:00
SebthreeBQM10HDno after swipeing again10:00
Jucato_ok just checked10:01
SebthreeBQM10HDthats better back to bluetooh now and jucato_ seems lost you a bit there10:02
Jucato_not working on xchat because even the chat window is considered a text window of sorts10:02
SebthreeBQM10HDseems it only disappears if I swipe, never any other time10:02
SebthreeBQM10HDor maybe click out enough of the text field10:02
Jucato_the only safe spot is the nick list10:03
Jucato_tap on a nuck and the jeyboard disappears10:03
SebthreeBQM10HDah ha so your agreeing that it doesn't really work as intended properly with x chat?10:03
SebthreeBQM10HDjucato libre office writer seemed to work in the same kind of way or uh not work as xchat as well when I breifuly treid that, but really that's mostly just one big text box :D10:03
Jucato_not exactly sure about the "as intended" part10:04
SebthreeBQM10HDwell disappeairng when not wnating it I mean10:04
SebthreeBQM10HDwhen not wanting to type etc10:04
SebthreeBQM10HDeven if in a text box still as well10:04
Jucato_the keyboard sees the chat windows as something it can interact with as text so i guess it doesn't want to leave :)10:04
SebthreeBQM10HDah right10:04
SebthreeBQM10HDjucato well that kind of stuff should be sorted in an update :)10:05
SebthreeBQM10HDwhat else is new in OTA 12 after upgrading from OTA 10.1 i  SKIPPED 1110:05
SebthreeBQM10HDI notice a blue bar at teh top, KDE style10:05
SebthreeBQM10HDof  libertine programs10:05
Jucatomiracast suport for the M10 :)10:05
SebthreeBQM10HDwell yes I know there's that to10:06
SebthreeBQM10HDbut I mean things I can see more so :D10:06
SebthreeBQM10HDplus the log in scren has changed, it's a white box hmm10:06
SebthreeBQM10HDit was better before10:06
Jucatothe blue bar is actually more like the old GTK Metacity theme10:06
SebthreeBQM10HDyeah probbly like the old GTK10:06
Jucatoor not. hehe but probably not kde10:07
SebthreeBQM10HDand no Firefox etc on the main screen, which I think I Migh have read about and forgot before updating or whatever actsaully,  well no I had seen a comment on omgubuntu10:07
SebthreeBQM10HDthe xmir programs should be on the main screen I think, but turns out I Had xapps installed so opened that up from the manage thing and yep10:07
Jucatoyeah all  libertine apps are now in their own scope10:07
SebthreeBQM10HDhow do you get that scope up?10:07
SebthreeBQM10HDI waned to like a manage hting with all apps etc10:08
Jucatothe same way as before10:08
Jucatoswipe up from the bottom of any scope, scroll down to XApps10:08
SebthreeBQM10HDfrom the today or main screen or whatever as well, not sure that's the proper way to do it htough10:08
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SebthreeBQM10HDJucato, ok yeah that's what I did, it then opens up a manage screen with a load of stuff10:09
SebthreeBQM10HDand xapps being one of them10:09
SebthreeBQM10HDJucato, ok thanks for your help etc :), I should do some other stuff now really.... hmm10:09
Jucatotap on the Star if you want it to be always there10:09
SebthreeBQM10HDoh the star10:09
SebthreeBQM10HDok which added it to the top of the list10:10
Jucatoso now you won't have to always scroll through that list. it's at the top level, same as Today, etc10:11
SebthreeBQM10HDJucato, yes that's better, I still would hav prefered them on the main apps screen like before, but can get more used to the new way10:11
SebthreeBQM10HDacstaully I think in unity on the left bar as well10:11
SebthreeBQM10HDthings like FIrefox and xhcat were there to as well, but not now10:11
SebthreeBQM10HDmy today scop seeems to have dipparead acstaully or something hmm10:12
SebthreeBQM10HDor the like wher is your location etc,  shops near you etc, annoyingly always with this tablet it has thought I  WAS IN Lonond to before, when I was not, and coudn't jus change10:12
SebthreeBQM10HDI think on the phone it would pick up location data from say a mobile network so10:12
SebthreeBQM10HDbut tablet also has no sim so10:12
Jucatoyou mean the NearBy scope?10:13
Jucatomine's still here. and i don't have a sim either ;)10:14
SebthreeBQM10HDJucato, I am not sure where my near by scope etc has gone10:15
SebthreeBQM10HDor the today scope as it was called ?10:15
SebthreeBQM10HDplus annoyingly it came up with stuff for London anyway which was useless10:15
SebthreeBQM10HDthat's on tablet, phones no problem got my acstual near by city10:15
JucatoToday is different from NearBy.10:15
Jucatoyou can always check that Manage Scopes list. mine's still working (also tablet)10:17
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sistemxHello, Do somebody know, why any program stop work after lock screen? I am asking bcs I download curespotify and it happen15:27
sistemxit is in program or it is by system?15:28
ogra_both ...15:29
ogra_by default the system stops all apps when you lock the screen ...15:29
ogra_... but an app can use certain ways to keep running15:30
ogra_specifically for media stuff apps only keep running is they use the mediaplayer backend of the system ... seems this app does not15:30
sistemxand there is any way how to change?15:34
sistemxbcs program is not useable now. I am finding way how it happen function15:36
sistemxin system setting is access to background app, but there is only launcher and notifications, how add others?15:37
sistemxor is it really difficulty?15:47
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mcphailsistemx: the app has to be designed to use the backgroud services15:49
sistemxI see,  so I must contact owner :( . Any way it looks like open source, is there any easy command to change it? Or it is difficulty? Means something like set orientation, for orientation is easy command in code...15:51
dobeyin system settings?15:53
sistemxyes, locking and unlocking15:54
dobeythe "when locked, allow" thing has nothing to do with background processing15:54
sistemxI see15:55
dobeyit's whether to allow opening indicators and the launcher from screen edge, while the screen is locked15:55
dobeyit's about privacy15:55
sistemxSo it is difficulty change it in code of program, isn't it?15:56
mcphailsistemx: it is not trivial to rewrite the app to use background services15:56
mcphailsistemx: and no automatic way (as far as i know)15:56
sistemxI see, so very bad news for me :(, bcs use spotify with unlock mobile is crazy15:57
pmcgowanElleo, ^^ :)15:58
Elleosistemx: unfortunately spotify can't work with the media-hub background service at the moment, due to the way their streaming is designed15:59
sistemxOhh, worst news at all :( hope is dead now16:00
pmcgowanElleo, do you use the keep screen on call?16:00
jhodappElleo, actually it could, it just wouldn't be secure enough for our liking16:00
dobeyjhodapp: what does that mean?16:01
jhodappdobey, isolating the 3rd party binary blob that we'd use with streaming services like Spotify16:01
jhodappwe can't currently do that16:01
sistemxsecure is not priority now, music is priority :)16:01
Elleopmcgowan: nope, if I ever have time to spare I'm going to try making an unconfined version that asks for a wakelock and disables app suspending for the open store16:02
Elleopmcgowan: but that's a fair way down my list of spare time projects unfortunately16:02
dobeyjhodapp: oh, there's a binary blob that has to be used?16:03
jhodappdobey, yes unfortunately16:03
pmcgowanElleo, isnt that what the keep screen on thing does16:03
jhodappthe open implementation is sorely out of date16:03
Elleopmcgowan: no, this would be a much more complete solution; it'd allow the phone to switch off the screen and run the app inthe background16:04
sistemxThanks for explain, see you...16:05
dobeyjhodapp: and they provide a armhf/arm64 binaries for linux? wow16:05
pmcgowanElleo, we could probably bless it for the regular store with a manual review16:05
pmcgowanmight set a bad precedent though16:06
Elleopmcgowan: yeah, not certain about that since it can't really be thoroughly reviewed due to containing proprietary libs16:06
jhodappdobey, they do, yes16:06
dobeypmcgowan: seems like what we really need is to implmeent background processing support for some things, with helpers provided by the apps16:07
pmcgowanjhodapp, so the issue is we cannot audit the binary or what16:08
jhodapppmcgowan, yes basically16:08
pmcgowanjhodapp, its not the only blob on the device though16:08
jhodapppmcgowan, dobey: so the design is to isolate it away from the rest of media-hub16:08
jhodappright, but due to the nature of codecs and the security holes that crop up with them from time to time, this is one where we really need this isolation16:09
dobeyjhodapp: right, so i'm suggesting we need something which spawns an untrusted helper which the app provides, and then media hub can maybe control that helper or whatever, while the app's UI talks to media-hub16:10
jhodappdobey, untrusted helper to do what exactly?16:11
dobeyjhodapp: well, that's how you isolate binary blobs16:12
dobeyin the ubuntu touch app lifecycle world16:12
jhodappdobey, right but what's a specific use case you're thinking of here?16:12
dobeyjhodapp: <jhodapp> we need to isolate the binary blob16:12
jhodappdobey, yeah, in media-hub...I'm just confused when you started talking about the app16:13
dobeyjhodapp: i don't know what your specific API would be for helpers that media-hub would run; just saying that seems like how it would be done16:13
dobeyjhodapp: well, the app provides the blob, so the app would provide a helper binary/script/whatever, which is what loads/contains that binary blob, and media-hub would spawn it, and it would do its thing16:14
jhodappdobey, I see what you're getting at now...yes there's the streaming part, which is the part I'm talking about that needs isolation, and the web API calls that something like music-app makes for getting content lists, etc16:15
dobeyjhodapp: right, so you just need to design the API such that all those things are considered :)16:16
mcphailElleo: it is possible for trusted apps to play in the background with screen off without media hub (or, it was last time I tried). Don't know if this still works but see http://themcphails.uk/altest.njmcphail_0.1_armhf.click . No idea if this could be extended to do what you'd need, as I didn't do anything beyond proof of concept16:17
mcphailElleo: uses some ugly hacks :S16:18
Elleomcphail: oh?16:19
dobeymcphail: you mean you just run a shell script that doesn't have any UI for unity8 to manage?16:19
mcphaildobey: but also use openal, which seems to bypass pulse's control and continues to play with screen off16:20
mcphailsource is in the click16:20
dobeymcphail: i don't think that's openal, but the fact that it's a thing with no UI :)16:21
mcphaildobey: maybe, but I think things controlled by pulse get muted on screen off. So long ago when I was testing this I can't rememebr the details16:22
dobeymcphail: well it doesn't matter if it's muted or not. if the app is paused, it can't process data, and thus can't send anything to the sound card, regardless of pulse being there or not16:23
mcphaildobey: yep, but the little shell script could, conceivably, be expanded to be a little server which could be asked by other apps to do the streaming in the background16:25
dobeymcphail: well, the bug you're exploiting could also be fixed, preventing that :)16:25
mcphaildobey: no doubt ;)16:26
dobeymcphail: we already have a service running in the background which can be asked by apps to do the streaming in the background :)16:26
dobeyspotify is apparently just a special evil case16:26
dobeybecause one has to use their binary blob16:26
mcphailIndeed, but this could isolate the evil16:26
mcphailPack the spotify blob in the server's click package16:27
mcphailAnd have a separate spotify client complete with UI16:27
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dobeywell, the UX will be awful, and doesn't solve the general problem16:33
dobeyespecially once we fix the issue you're exploiting16:33
mcphailI agree it would be awful, but is it more awful than music stopping every time the screen goes off?16:33
mcphailThis platform is locked down so tightly, we're being left with ugly hacks to achieve the basics16:34
ahayzenbackground-playlists pretty much solves all of this, once/if media-hub supports the decoding of spotify streams :-)16:36
mcphailOK, then what about background GPS logging, background file synching etc? We don't have frameworks for these. A background API would be a compromise16:38
* mcphail has no idea how it would work, so don't ask him ;)16:38
dobeyworking like iOS does would be good enough for me16:42
mcphailHow does iOS do it?16:43
dobeyhas an api where apps request background processing time, and then can be awarded a block of time, and then request more time if needed.16:45
mcphailThat sounds sensible16:45
ogra_but is more implementation work16:46
dobeyi think we also need to implmeent CPU quotas and such16:46
dobeyogra_: yes, anything is more implementation work than doing nothing at all16:46
ogra_well, we do *something*16:46
ogra_(sending SIGSTOP and SIGCONT)16:46
dobeywell, what we do is prevent the exact thing that everyone is complaining we don't have an api for doing16:47
ogra_and i have seen MPs for cleverer oom scheduling i think16:47
dobeyie, we are doing nothing to make background processing for apps work16:47
dobeybetter OOM scheduling doesn't provide background processing :)16:48
ogra_but happens in the same corner of the code16:48
dobeymaybe. i don't know that code that well. but the point is that all of what that code is doing, is to prevent the exact thing that is being asked for. not to make it possible to do that thing :)16:51
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polyluxgood evening everyone21:48
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aquilesHow to reinstall libertine on ubuntu touch22:51
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