[01:18] <Acou_Bass> hey, nspawn isn't a hack, it's pretty great :D though I've no idea how it'd work alongside Mir and snap etc
[02:17] <vkrishn> hi
[02:18] <vkrishn> could someone suggest which version/dvd for http://www.amazon.in/Micromax-LT666W-10-1-inch-Touchscreen-Integrated/dp/B01689FD2Q
[02:18] <vkrishn> it supports booting from usb
[02:23] <vkrishn> currently downloading, http://releases.ubuntu.com/16.04.1/ubuntu-16.04.1-desktop-i386.iso
[06:41] <MasseR> The new-tab optimization fix is noticeable. Thank you very much guys
[06:58] <Jucato> and thanks to much for libertine/desktop apps and fingerprint support on the meizu pro 6!!
[08:55] <swalladge> Is it just me or are the names for the m10 and m10hd swapped on the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes/OTA-12
[08:55] <swalladge> AFAIK frieza in the full HD version
[09:34] <SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
[09:34] <SebthreeBQM10HD> anyone around and with OTA 12 as well ?
[09:36] <SebthreeBQM10HD> om26er, have you got OTA 12?
[09:38] <SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, woo on screen keyboard for Libertine, hoever it doesn't quite work how I had expected
[09:41] <davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: how would you expect it to work
[09:41] <davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: it opens when you need to type something
[09:41] <SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, well to disappeaar for a start as well, when it should do realy
[09:41] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but instead it stays
[09:42] <SebthreeBQM10HD> well in xchat gnome it does
[09:42] <SebthreeBQM10HD> and libre office writer
[09:42] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I Just tried those after Firefox,  Firefox seems ok
[09:43] <SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, it just stayed and woudn['t go away, when I didn't want it.  I could get rid of it very teorly when on the top right showing like you know the stuff up there
[09:43] <davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: if the text field has the cursor in then the keyboard is required in order to type
[09:43] <SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, it's also massive
[09:43] <SebthreeBQM10HD> so in the case of xchat gnome
[09:43] <SebthreeBQM10HD> it goes over the whole type area
[09:43] <SebthreeBQM10HD> and then can't really see what's been typed on it
[09:44] <davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: yeap that is in a bug in libertine in that it doesn't move the text field above the keyboard like it does on normal apps known issue
[09:44] <SebthreeBQM10HD> the one on the ipad for example and even Android, is quite good at disappearing when it should do
[09:45] <davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: it does disappear if you stop highlighting the text field
[09:45] <SebthreeBQM10HD> oh bregma isn't here, probably since it's night time for him or very early morning. but I was going to jokingly say:  bregma you need to sort that out
[09:45] <SebthreeBQM10HD> the text filed is always high lighted in xchat gnome though
[09:45] <SebthreeBQM10HD> with it's cursour
[09:45] <SebthreeBQM10HD> on here
[09:46] <SebthreeBQM10HD> same with libre office writer I Guess
[09:46] <davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: tap the window part
[09:46] <SebthreeBQM10HD> from my limited trying just now,  and since as you say there's some kind of bug as well, seems can only really use firefox with it for now
[09:47] <SebthreeBQM10HD> what you mean tap the window part?
[09:47] <SebthreeBQM10HD> now back using the bluteooth keyboard by the way, but I could change that
[09:47] <davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: also you can swipe the keyboard down, the upper part of the irc window where you are reading my comments
[09:48] <SebthreeBQM10HD> you mean move it with the line
[09:48] <SebthreeBQM10HD> theres like a line
[09:48] <SebthreeBQM10HD> on the top there
[09:49]  * SebthreeBQM10HD doens't like xchat gnome anyway, but hasn't done the getting more x programs thing so
[09:49]  * SebthreeBQM10HD would use konversation usually on a normal computer
[09:50]  * Jucato couldn't get konversation to run. installs fine ...
[09:51] <SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, swip down how?
[09:51] <SebthreeBQM10HD> or what you jmean ?
[09:51] <davmor2> SebthreeBQM10HD: put your finger at the top of the keyboard and swipe it down
[09:51] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Jucato, oh you tried
[09:52] <SebthreeBQM10HD> davmor2, or up in that case, since it goes over the text box ?
[09:52] <SebthreeBQM10HD> the typing area
[09:52] <Jucato> SebthreeBQM10HD: as in you try to swipe the virtual keyboard down to hide it
[09:52] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Jucato, yeah that's a bit uh when something seems to install ok, but then doesn't open up etc porperly in general
[09:52] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ok I'lll try
[09:53] <SebthreeBQM10HD> o OK yesthat works
[09:53] <Jucato> that swipe gesture is actually true for the virtual keyboard in general. whether it's libertine or native
[09:54] <SebthreeBQM10HD> yes I can swipe down
[09:54] <Jucato> also, as davmor2 said, the keyboard only pops up if you are in a text input field. tap anywhere else that isn't an input box and it hides
[09:55] <Jucato> which reminds me. need to install xchat :)
[09:55] <SebthreeBQM10HD> would be nice for it to dissapper in general hen expected to in general to as just mentioned but right that is a bug in libertibe apparently
[09:56] <SebthreeBQM10HD> as expected coreting
[09:57] <SebthreeBQM10HD> it didn't hide and doesn't when not typing in the text field
[09:57] <Jucato> you have to tap outside the text field
[09:58] <SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah I guess but still really it should know if going to type and if typng
[10:00] <SebthreeBQM10HD> now after swipe thing it ems to be dissapering better but thats after sending a message
[10:00] <SebthreeBQM10HD> no after swipeing again
[10:01] <Jucato_> ok just checked
[10:02] <SebthreeBQM10HD> thats better back to bluetooh now and jucato_ seems lost you a bit there
[10:02] <Jucato_> not working on xchat because even the chat window is considered a text window of sorts
[10:02] <SebthreeBQM10HD> seems it only disappears if I swipe, never any other time
[10:02] <SebthreeBQM10HD> or maybe click out enough of the text field
[10:03] <Jucato_> the only safe spot is the nick list
[10:03] <Jucato_> tap on a nuck and the jeyboard disappears
[10:03] <Jucato_> nick
[10:03] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ah ha so your agreeing that it doesn't really work as intended properly with x chat?
[10:03] <SebthreeBQM10HD> jucato libre office writer seemed to work in the same kind of way or uh not work as xchat as well when I breifuly treid that, but really that's mostly just one big text box :D
[10:04] <Jucato_> not exactly sure about the "as intended" part
[10:04] <SebthreeBQM10HD> well disappeairng when not wnating it I mean
[10:04] <SebthreeBQM10HD> when not wanting to type etc
[10:04] <SebthreeBQM10HD> even if in a text box still as well
[10:04] <Jucato_> the keyboard sees the chat windows as something it can interact with as text so i guess it doesn't want to leave :)
[10:04] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ah right
[10:05] <SebthreeBQM10HD> jucato well that kind of stuff should be sorted in an update :)
[10:05] <SebthreeBQM10HD> what else is new in OTA 12 after upgrading from OTA 10.1 i  SKIPPED 11
[10:05] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I notice a blue bar at teh top, KDE style
[10:05] <SebthreeBQM10HD> of  libertine programs
[10:05] <Jucato> miracast suport for the M10 :)
[10:06] <SebthreeBQM10HD> well yes I know there's that to
[10:06] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but I mean things I can see more so :D
[10:06] <SebthreeBQM10HD> plus the log in scren has changed, it's a white box hmm
[10:06] <SebthreeBQM10HD> it was better before
[10:06] <Jucato> the blue bar is actually more like the old GTK Metacity theme
[10:06] <SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah probbly like the old GTK
[10:07] <Jucato> or not. hehe but probably not kde
[10:07] <SebthreeBQM10HD> and no Firefox etc on the main screen, which I think I Migh have read about and forgot before updating or whatever actsaully,  well no I had seen a comment on omgubuntu
[10:07] <SebthreeBQM10HD> the xmir programs should be on the main screen I think, but turns out I Had xapps installed so opened that up from the manage thing and yep
[10:07] <Jucato> yeah all  libertine apps are now in their own scope
[10:07] <SebthreeBQM10HD> how do you get that scope up?
[10:08] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I waned to like a manage hting with all apps etc
[10:08] <Jucato> the same way as before
[10:08] <Jucato> swipe up from the bottom of any scope, scroll down to XApps
[10:08] <SebthreeBQM10HD> from the today or main screen or whatever as well, not sure that's the proper way to do it htough
[10:09] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Jucato, ok yeah that's what I did, it then opens up a manage screen with a load of stuff
[10:09] <SebthreeBQM10HD> and xapps being one of them
[10:09] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Jucato, ok thanks for your help etc :), I should do some other stuff now really.... hmm
[10:09] <Jucato> tap on the Star if you want it to be always there
[10:09] <SebthreeBQM10HD> oh the star
[10:10] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ok which added it to the top of the list
[10:11] <Jucato> so now you won't have to always scroll through that list. it's at the top level, same as Today, etc
[10:11] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Jucato, yes that's better, I still would hav prefered them on the main apps screen like before, but can get more used to the new way
[10:11] <SebthreeBQM10HD> acstaully I think in unity on the left bar as well
[10:11] <SebthreeBQM10HD> things like FIrefox and xhcat were there to as well, but not now
[10:12] <SebthreeBQM10HD> my today scop seeems to have dipparead acstaully or something hmm
[10:12] <SebthreeBQM10HD> or the like wher is your location etc,  shops near you etc, annoyingly always with this tablet it has thought I  WAS IN Lonond to before, when I was not, and coudn't jus change
[10:12] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I think on the phone it would pick up location data from say a mobile network so
[10:12] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but tablet also has no sim so
[10:13] <Jucato> you mean the NearBy scope?
[10:14] <Jucato> mine's still here. and i don't have a sim either ;)
[10:15] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Jucato, I am not sure where my near by scope etc has gone
[10:15] <SebthreeBQM10HD> or the today scope as it was called ?
[10:15] <SebthreeBQM10HD> plus annoyingly it came up with stuff for London anyway which was useless
[10:15] <SebthreeBQM10HD> that's on tablet, phones no problem got my acstual near by city
[10:15] <Jucato> Today is different from NearBy.
[10:17] <Jucato> you can always check that Manage Scopes list. mine's still working (also tablet)
[15:27] <sistemx> Hello, Do somebody know, why any program stop work after lock screen? I am asking bcs I download curespotify and it happen
[15:28] <sistemx> it is in program or it is by system?
[15:29] <ogra_> both ...
[15:29] <ogra_> by default the system stops all apps when you lock the screen ...
[15:30] <ogra_> ... but an app can use certain ways to keep running
[15:30] <ogra_> specifically for media stuff apps only keep running is they use the mediaplayer backend of the system ... seems this app does not
[15:34] <sistemx> and there is any way how to change?
[15:36] <sistemx> bcs program is not useable now. I am finding way how it happen function
[15:37] <sistemx> in system setting is access to background app, but there is only launcher and notifications, how add others?
[15:47] <sistemx> or is it really difficulty?
[15:49] <mcphail> sistemx: the app has to be designed to use the backgroud services
[15:51] <sistemx> I see,  so I must contact owner :( . Any way it looks like open source, is there any easy command to change it? Or it is difficulty? Means something like set orientation, for orientation is easy command in code...
[15:53] <dobey> in system settings?
[15:54] <dobey> oh
[15:54] <sistemx> yes, locking and unlocking
[15:54] <dobey> the "when locked, allow" thing has nothing to do with background processing
[15:55] <sistemx> I see
[15:55] <dobey> it's whether to allow opening indicators and the launcher from screen edge, while the screen is locked
[15:55] <dobey> it's about privacy
[15:56] <sistemx> So it is difficulty change it in code of program, isn't it?
[15:56] <mcphail> sistemx: it is not trivial to rewrite the app to use background services
[15:56] <mcphail> sistemx: and no automatic way (as far as i know)
[15:57] <sistemx> I see, so very bad news for me :(, bcs use spotify with unlock mobile is crazy
[15:58] <pmcgowan> Elleo, ^^ :)
[15:59] <Elleo> sistemx: unfortunately spotify can't work with the media-hub background service at the moment, due to the way their streaming is designed
[16:00] <sistemx> Ohh, worst news at all :( hope is dead now
[16:00] <pmcgowan> Elleo, do you use the keep screen on call?
[16:00] <jhodapp> Elleo, actually it could, it just wouldn't be secure enough for our liking
[16:01] <dobey> jhodapp: what does that mean?
[16:01] <jhodapp> dobey, isolating the 3rd party binary blob that we'd use with streaming services like Spotify
[16:01] <jhodapp> we can't currently do that
[16:01] <sistemx> secure is not priority now, music is priority :)
[16:02] <Elleo> pmcgowan: nope, if I ever have time to spare I'm going to try making an unconfined version that asks for a wakelock and disables app suspending for the open store
[16:02] <Elleo> pmcgowan: but that's a fair way down my list of spare time projects unfortunately
[16:03] <dobey> jhodapp: oh, there's a binary blob that has to be used?
[16:03] <jhodapp> dobey, yes unfortunately
[16:03] <pmcgowan> Elleo, isnt that what the keep screen on thing does
[16:03] <jhodapp> the open implementation is sorely out of date
[16:04] <Elleo> pmcgowan: no, this would be a much more complete solution; it'd allow the phone to switch off the screen and run the app inthe background
[16:05] <sistemx> Thanks for explain, see you...
[16:05] <dobey> jhodapp: and they provide a armhf/arm64 binaries for linux? wow
[16:05] <pmcgowan> Elleo, we could probably bless it for the regular store with a manual review
[16:06] <pmcgowan> might set a bad precedent though
[16:06] <Elleo> pmcgowan: yeah, not certain about that since it can't really be thoroughly reviewed due to containing proprietary libs
[16:06] <jhodapp> dobey, they do, yes
[16:07] <dobey> pmcgowan: seems like what we really need is to implmeent background processing support for some things, with helpers provided by the apps
[16:08] <pmcgowan> jhodapp, so the issue is we cannot audit the binary or what
[16:08] <jhodapp> pmcgowan, yes basically
[16:08] <pmcgowan> jhodapp, its not the only blob on the device though
[16:08] <jhodapp> pmcgowan, dobey: so the design is to isolate it away from the rest of media-hub
[16:09] <jhodapp> right, but due to the nature of codecs and the security holes that crop up with them from time to time, this is one where we really need this isolation
[16:10] <dobey> jhodapp: right, so i'm suggesting we need something which spawns an untrusted helper which the app provides, and then media hub can maybe control that helper or whatever, while the app's UI talks to media-hub
[16:11] <jhodapp> dobey, untrusted helper to do what exactly?
[16:12] <dobey> jhodapp: well, that's how you isolate binary blobs
[16:12] <dobey> in the ubuntu touch app lifecycle world
[16:12] <jhodapp> dobey, right but what's a specific use case you're thinking of here?
[16:12] <dobey> jhodapp: <jhodapp> we need to isolate the binary blob
[16:13] <jhodapp> dobey, yeah, in media-hub...I'm just confused when you started talking about the app
[16:13] <dobey> jhodapp: i don't know what your specific API would be for helpers that media-hub would run; just saying that seems like how it would be done
[16:14] <dobey> jhodapp: well, the app provides the blob, so the app would provide a helper binary/script/whatever, which is what loads/contains that binary blob, and media-hub would spawn it, and it would do its thing
[16:15] <jhodapp> dobey, I see what you're getting at now...yes there's the streaming part, which is the part I'm talking about that needs isolation, and the web API calls that something like music-app makes for getting content lists, etc
[16:16] <dobey> jhodapp: right, so you just need to design the API such that all those things are considered :)
[16:17] <mcphail> Elleo: it is possible for trusted apps to play in the background with screen off without media hub (or, it was last time I tried). Don't know if this still works but see http://themcphails.uk/altest.njmcphail_0.1_armhf.click . No idea if this could be extended to do what you'd need, as I didn't do anything beyond proof of concept
[16:18] <mcphail> Elleo: uses some ugly hacks :S
[16:19] <Elleo> mcphail: oh?
[16:19] <dobey> mcphail: you mean you just run a shell script that doesn't have any UI for unity8 to manage?
[16:20] <mcphail> dobey: but also use openal, which seems to bypass pulse's control and continues to play with screen off
[16:20] <mcphail> source is in the click
[16:21] <dobey> mcphail: i don't think that's openal, but the fact that it's a thing with no UI :)
[16:22] <mcphail> dobey: maybe, but I think things controlled by pulse get muted on screen off. So long ago when I was testing this I can't rememebr the details
[16:23] <dobey> mcphail: well it doesn't matter if it's muted or not. if the app is paused, it can't process data, and thus can't send anything to the sound card, regardless of pulse being there or not
[16:25] <mcphail> dobey: yep, but the little shell script could, conceivably, be expanded to be a little server which could be asked by other apps to do the streaming in the background
[16:25] <dobey> mcphail: well, the bug you're exploiting could also be fixed, preventing that :)
[16:26] <mcphail> dobey: no doubt ;)
[16:26] <dobey> mcphail: we already have a service running in the background which can be asked by apps to do the streaming in the background :)
[16:26] <dobey> spotify is apparently just a special evil case
[16:26] <dobey> because one has to use their binary blob
[16:26] <mcphail> Indeed, but this could isolate the evil
[16:27] <mcphail> Pack the spotify blob in the server's click package
[16:27] <mcphail> And have a separate spotify client complete with UI
[16:33] <dobey> well, the UX will be awful, and doesn't solve the general problem
[16:33] <dobey> especially once we fix the issue you're exploiting
[16:33] <mcphail> I agree it would be awful, but is it more awful than music stopping every time the screen goes off?
[16:34] <dobey> yes
[16:34] <mcphail> This platform is locked down so tightly, we're being left with ugly hacks to achieve the basics
[16:36] <ahayzen> background-playlists pretty much solves all of this, once/if media-hub supports the decoding of spotify streams :-)
[16:38] <mcphail> OK, then what about background GPS logging, background file synching etc? We don't have frameworks for these. A background API would be a compromise
[16:38]  * mcphail has no idea how it would work, so don't ask him ;)
[16:42] <dobey> working like iOS does would be good enough for me
[16:43] <mcphail> How does iOS do it?
[16:45] <dobey> has an api where apps request background processing time, and then can be awarded a block of time, and then request more time if needed.
[16:45] <mcphail> That sounds sensible
[16:46] <ogra_> but is more implementation work
[16:46] <dobey> i think we also need to implmeent CPU quotas and such
[16:46] <dobey> ogra_: yes, anything is more implementation work than doing nothing at all
[16:46] <ogra_> right
[16:46] <ogra_> well, we do *something*
[16:46] <ogra_> (sending SIGSTOP and SIGCONT)
[16:47] <dobey> well, what we do is prevent the exact thing that everyone is complaining we don't have an api for doing
[16:47] <ogra_> and i have seen MPs for cleverer oom scheduling i think
[16:47] <dobey> ie, we are doing nothing to make background processing for apps work
[16:48] <dobey> better OOM scheduling doesn't provide background processing :)
[16:48] <ogra_> indeed
[16:48] <ogra_> but happens in the same corner of the code
[16:51] <dobey> maybe. i don't know that code that well. but the point is that all of what that code is doing, is to prevent the exact thing that is being asked for. not to make it possible to do that thing :)
[21:48] <polylux> good evening everyone
[22:51] <aquiles> How to reinstall libertine on ubuntu touch