| qengho | Howdy, y'all! | 00:59 |
|---|---|---|
| jbicha | qengho: mornin' | 00:59 |
| qengho | jbicha: where are you these days? | 01:30 |
| jbicha | S of Tampa, FL | 01:30 |
| jbicha | so, not morning here :) | 01:32 |
| jbicha | I just didn't want you to be lonely like yesterday so I said hi this time | 01:32 |
| sarnold | <3 | 01:33 |
| qengho | <3 | 01:37 |
| qengho | jbicha: I'm back in CFL in 5 days. | 01:38 |
| qengho | jbicha_: I'm back in CFL in 5 days. | 01:41 |
| === jbicha_ is now known as jbicha | ||
| jbicha | qengho: cool, that's quite a time zone shift | 01:47 |
| qengho | jbicha: It's an entire π out of phase. | 01:55 |
| jbicha | it's cool that you wouldn't have to adjust an old-school analog clock/watch for it | 01:58 |
| hikiko | Hello | 05:00 |
| jbicha | hi | 05:09 |
| seb128 | good morning desktopers | 07:19 |
| willcooke | morning all | 07:59 |
| andyrock | morning all | 08:02 |
| Laney | hey ho | 08:02 |
| mpt | “A new version of Ubuntu is available. Would you like to upgrade?” | 08:05 |
| * mpt tries to click a button in the dialog, but it jumps from the center of the screen to the top left corner | 08:06 | |
| * mpt tries again, but a moment too soon, the dialog disappears altogether | 08:06 | |
| seb128 | hey willcooke andyrock Laney | 08:07 |
| seb128 | mpt, did it crash? :-( was that on trusty? | 08:08 |
| Laney | hey seb128 | 08:11 |
| Laney | how's it going? | 08:12 |
| seb128 | Laney, happy friday! how are you today? how is rainy u.k? | 08:12 |
| seb128 | going well | 08:12 |
| pitti | morning Laney! | 08:12 |
| seb128 | glad that it's friday ;-) | 08:12 |
| seb128 | though still a busy todolist for the day | 08:12 |
| Laney | hey pitti! | 08:13 |
| Laney | I am crippled today | 08:13 |
| pitti | Laney: uh, what happened? climbing? | 08:13 |
| Laney | yeah | 08:13 |
| Laney | it was weird though | 08:13 |
| Laney | I was just doing a climb and then managed to ruin my neck | 08:13 |
| Laney | and it's quite bad today | 08:13 |
| Laney | maybe pinched a nerve or so | 08:13 |
| pitti | urgh | 08:13 |
| * Laney is on ibuprofen | 08:14 | |
| willcooke | :(( | 08:14 |
| pitti | .. and I just wanted to ask you whether you could fill in for me during my vac.. | 08:14 |
| Laney | did you know that ibuprofen was discovered in nottingham? | 08:15 |
| Laney | #funfacts | 08:15 |
| Laney | fill in in what way? | 08:15 |
| Laney | probably not at basketball | 08:15 |
| Laney | but in other ways, sure ;-) | 08:15 |
| pitti | Laney: discovered just for these crazy climbers? :-) | 08:15 |
| * seb128 steps up for taking care of that daily icecream scoop | 08:16 | |
| pitti | Laney: for keeping an eye on the autopkgtest machinery | 08:16 |
| pitti | seb128: that's the hardest tasks of all! | 08:16 |
| seb128 | indeed! | 08:16 |
| seb128 | we didn't even manage to get ice cream once while you were here | 08:16 |
| pitti | well, we did have the one you grabbed on Sat | 08:16 |
| seb128 | I went yesterday evening though :p | 08:16 |
| seb128 | right | 08:17 |
| seb128 | I'm glad I did ;-) | 08:17 |
| Laney | pitti: ah yeah, sure | 08:18 |
| flexiondotorg | o/ | 08:18 |
| Laney | the queues are looking large | 08:18 |
| pitti | Laney: I'll be off from next Wed for 1.5 weeks | 08:18 |
| pitti | Laney: yeah, moar KDE goodness | 08:18 |
| seb128 | Laney, I hope you are going to be better for the w.e and that it's not going to ruin your w.e plans | 08:18 |
| pitti | Laney: they went over the Qt 5.6 and Perl humps yesterday | 08:18 |
| pitti | Laney: I messed up the setup-testbed script which caused a bunch of failures this morning, but TTBOMK everything is running smoothly now | 08:18 |
| pitti | Laney: other than that I renamed lcy01.rc to *.disabled to avoid getting spammed by those mails every 6 hours | 08:19 |
| Laney | okay | 08:19 |
| pitti | apparently reviving lcy01 is a bigger task | 08:19 |
| Laney | I wonder what happened to it | 08:19 |
| pitti | the disk of the DB server had been brittle for a while already, and apparently it now died completely | 08:20 |
| pitti | R.I.P. mysql | 08:20 |
| pitti | seb128, Laney: I hope systemd 231-1 will land by tomorrow, then I could land gnome-session to enable systemd sessions in y; problem is, that's right before my holidays, so if anything goes seriously wrong could you revert the Exec= line back to gnome-session in case? | 08:21 |
| mpt | seb128, it came back eventually … It was an example of the mistake of letting windows appear before the window manager has launched | 08:22 |
| Laney | pitti: Alright, let's do it | 08:24 |
| Laney | I'm going to upload gtk today too (but block it for a bit more in proposed) | 08:24 |
| Laney | crack day | 08:24 |
| Laney | flexiondotorg: you ready with your theme? | 08:24 |
| flexiondotorg | Laney, close. | 08:24 |
| flexiondotorg | Perhaps close enough for not total breakage. | 08:25 |
| Laney | 'k | 08:25 |
| pitti | Laney: that's the spirit :) | 08:25 |
| flexiondotorg | When are you planning to land GTK 3.20? | 08:25 |
| pitti | Laney: if/once I land it, I'll mail u-devel@ with contingency options | 08:25 |
| flexiondotorg | Ah, today. | 08:25 |
| seb128 | mpt, ah ok, that explains why it moved I was wondering | 08:26 |
| Laney | flexiondotorg: I'll block it for a bit though, there's still some unity-greeter problems that I would like to fix beforehand | 08:26 |
| flexiondotorg | OK, no problem. | 08:26 |
| Laney | Just want to get a start on having things built | 08:26 |
| pitti | seb128: actually, I see no reason to not have daily ice cream on our bike trip along the Danube, so sorry, this task isn't available :-P | 08:26 |
| Laney | Also let everybody get their themes & stuff lined up | 08:27 |
| flexiondotorg | WHat we have now will prevent total breakage, but some bits still need work. | 08:27 |
| Laney | Got a while until the next milestone anyway | 08:27 |
| seb128 | Laney, do you have bug #1548425 on your list? binding api changed it seems, it might be worth checking the rdepends before letting it in | 08:27 |
| flexiondotorg | That is for Ubuntu MATE Themes. But, I'm happy to move. | 08:27 |
| ubot5 | bug 1548425 in update-manager (Ubuntu Yakkety) "update-manager crashed with AttributeError in check_hovering(): 'tuple' object has no attribute 'get_tags'" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1548425 | 08:27 |
| flexiondotorg | I also need to upload mate-themes for 3.20. They are 100% complete. | 08:27 |
| seb128 | pitti, bah! fair enough, going to fork it and do is as well anyway :p | 08:28 |
| * pitti ^5s seb128 | 08:28 | |
| * seb128 ^5s pitti | 08:28 | |
| Laney | seb128: no, thx | 08:30 |
| seb128 | yw! | 08:30 |
| willcooke | Laney, thanks for the suggestions to the apt issue. | 08:47 |
| Laney | np! | 08:51 |
| willcooke | ahh, who remembers Summer 2016? | 09:16 |
| duflu | willcooke: Definitely me. Had two months of it in Jan-Feb. Had another month of it in USA. And will have another month starting Dec :) | 09:18 |
| popey | willcooke: I slept through it | 09:19 |
| duflu | Actually to be fair, summer in Oz is longer than 3 months | 09:19 |
| willcooke | :) | 09:24 |
| popey | willcooke: lets move to oz | 09:31 |
| willcooke | :D | 09:31 |
| qengho | It's full of Australians! | 09:32 |
| qengho | (Intentionally ambiguous tone on that.) | 09:32 |
| pitti | seb128, Laney: huh, the systemd beast landed in y! so the infra is in place now, awesome | 10:16 |
| Laney | scary! | 10:16 |
| pitti | I'll still wait with gnome-session until Monday though | 10:16 |
| pitti | first, because Friday and second because new systemd upstream version, let's keep the bugs apart :) | 10:17 |
| * pitti cleans up the ppa | 10:17 | |
| === hikiko is now known as hikiko|ln | ||
| === hikiko|ln is now known as hikiko | ||
| seb128 | pitti, wooot | 11:44 |
| Sweet5hark1 | heya all. | 12:11 |
| Laney | attente: if there's a mir backend refresh needed for gtk 3.20.6, let's have it please | 12:12 |
| Laney | hey Sweet5hark1! | 12:12 |
| Sweet5hark1 | seb128: so in the gnome-calculator app (which I happily copied), how are we planning to use gtk3? | 12:12 |
| Sweet5hark1 | s/gtk3/gtk3 themes/ | 12:13 |
| Sweet5hark1 | Laney: heya! | 12:13 |
| Laney | what's up homie | 12:13 |
| Sweet5hark1 | do we want to use the theme from the host env? or not? And if we do the former, how should that work? | 12:14 |
| seb128 | hey Sweet5hark1, good afternoon to you! | 12:15 |
| seb128 | Sweet5hark1, that's a tricky one | 12:15 |
| Sweet5hark1 | Because someone tried a (now well-contained) libreoffice with gtk3 on Ubuntu Mate and surprisingly the confined LibreOffice doesnt find any Ambient-MATE theme in the container ... | 12:16 |
| Sweet5hark1 | "surprisingly" | 12:16 |
| seb128 | right | 12:16 |
| Laney | you need a theme corresponding to the gtk version | 12:16 |
| * Laney kills self once again | 12:16 | |
| seb128 | that's the issue | 12:16 |
| seb128 | can't use the host theme | 12:16 |
| Sweet5hark1 | ah so we bundle all gtk theme that ever were in the snap? | 12:17 |
| seb128 | because you snap might bundle gtk3.20 | 12:17 |
| seb128 | but xenial is 3.18 | 12:17 |
| seb128 | and gtk theme are not compatibles between versions | 12:17 |
| seb128 | the plan is rather to have the theme part of the platform snap (when we get those) | 12:17 |
| seb128 | but it means if libreoffice uses the unity platform it gets ambiance even on other desktops | 12:18 |
| Laney | things can't plug in to the platform somehow? | 12:18 |
| seb128 | things using the gnome platform would get adwaita I guess | 12:18 |
| seb128 | Laney, define "platform"? | 12:18 |
| Laney | platform snap (when we get those) | 12:19 |
| seb128 | I guess we were typing at the same time | 12:19 |
| seb128 | did I already reply to that or is the question slighly different? | 12:19 |
| Laney | you say the theme will be fixed | 12:19 |
| Laney | don't see why it has to be like that | 12:19 |
| seb128 | well they are part of the runtime | 12:20 |
| seb128 | where would you ship the theme? | 12:20 |
| Laney | somewhere that the runtime's gtk will find it | 12:20 |
| seb128 | or would you have an extra "desktop look" snap? | 12:20 |
| Sweet5hark1 | seb128: k. I think, as there isnt an immediate solution, I ask him to file a bug, so we can discuss the details (and in the meantime its a known issue that we are working on) ... | 12:20 |
| seb128 | Sweet5hark1, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/snapd/+bug/1576300 | 12:20 |
| ubot5 | Launchpad bug 1576300 in snapd (Ubuntu) "Has no integration with system icon themes" [Undecided,New] | 12:20 |
| Laney | same with things like gstreamer plugins, or fonts, or debug symbols | 12:21 |
| seb128 | Laney, well issue is that the defined theme is an user gsetting | 12:21 |
| Sweet5hark1 | seb128: ah, aweseme! thanks | 12:21 |
| seb128 | no | 12:21 |
| seb128 | fonts are compatible between desktops and os versions | 12:21 |
| seb128 | which makes thing easier | 12:21 |
| Laney | they still plug in from snaps to the system | 12:22 |
| seb128 | debug symbols have one variant | 12:22 |
| seb128 | right | 12:22 |
| seb128 | but you can't plug to the system for theme | 12:22 |
| Laney | why not | 12:22 |
| seb128 | running gedit 3.20 with gtk 3.20 bundled on xenial would give you the 3.18 css | 12:22 |
| seb128 | which doesn't work on gtk 3.20 | 12:22 |
| Laney | i don't see why this is impossible to handle | 12:23 |
| seb128 | unsure what you mean | 12:23 |
| Laney | if i want debug symbols for a thing in a platform snap you solve it | 12:23 |
| Laney | it's the same as the theme | 12:23 |
| seb128 | no | 12:23 |
| Laney | yes | 12:23 |
| seb128 | there is only 1 set of debug symbols for 1 snap | 12:23 |
| Laney | there is one place to put themes | 12:23 |
| seb128 | it's easy to map those | 12:23 |
| seb128 | but what ships the theme? | 12:24 |
| seb128 | the dbg can be generated from the snap so it's easy | 12:24 |
| Laney | they are in the store | 12:24 |
| seb128 | but whose' job is it to ship the theme? | 12:24 |
| Laney | a theme author | 12:24 |
| seb128 | that would work | 12:24 |
| seb128 | so it would be user connect to install/connect the right theme | 12:24 |
| seb128 | ? | 12:24 |
| seb128 | user job to* | 12:25 |
| Laney | or it comes preinstalled, whatever | 12:25 |
| seb128 | well it can't really | 12:25 |
| Laney | "i am a theme for ubuntu 16.04, gnome 3.18" | 12:25 |
| Laney | then at install time it's installed in the right place for apps using this to get it | 12:26 |
| seb128 | it can't | 12:26 |
| seb128 | like I'm installing gedit 3.24 on my xenial under unity | 12:26 |
| seb128 | it fetches ambiance 3.24 and connect it | 12:26 |
| seb128 | all good | 12:26 |
| seb128 | then you come and log into your fluxbox session on my machine | 12:26 |
| seb128 | and start gedit | 12:26 |
| seb128 | what happens? | 12:27 |
| seb128 | or xubuntu session let's say | 12:27 |
| seb128 | they have their own theme | 12:27 |
| Laney | what happens right now? | 12:27 |
| Laney | on debs | 12:27 |
| seb128 | themes are part of the host | 12:27 |
| seb128 | host/desktop | 12:27 |
| Laney | how do you get them? | 12:27 |
| seb128 | they come with the desktop | 12:27 |
| Laney | because... | 12:27 |
| seb128 | but they only support the gtk version of that serie | 12:27 |
| Laney | someone wrote the theme and shipped it | 12:27 |
| seb128 | right | 12:27 |
| Laney | so.... | 12:28 |
| seb128 | shrug | 12:28 |
| seb128 | unsure how to explain that better | 12:28 |
| seb128 | currently we know that host system and apps are on the same gkt version for ever | 12:28 |
| seb128 | it makes easy to ship the appropriate theme | 12:28 |
| seb128 | in the new world we would need to ship all the existing themes for all the existing gtk versions | 12:29 |
| Laney | of course | 12:29 |
| Laney | but the themes can express which platforms they work on | 12:29 |
| seb128 | yeah, but the issue is what I described before | 12:29 |
| Laney | that's actually what we generally do not have with deb themes | 12:30 |
| seb128 | as an Unity user I install gedit 3.24 on xenial with ambiance 3.24 | 12:30 |
| seb128 | what would you expect to happen if somebody logs into a xubuntu session and start gedit on the same box | 12:30 |
| seb128 | at which point is greybird 3.24 installed | 12:30 |
| Laney | snappy knows which themes you want and installs those for new platforms if they are available | 12:31 |
| seb128 | expect it doesn't | 12:31 |
| seb128 | themes are by user preferences | 12:31 |
| Laney | you asked what I expect to happen | 12:31 |
| seb128 | and snappy is a system level service | 12:31 |
| seb128 | and even if my scenario snappy is used once when I install gedit | 12:31 |
| Laney | is greybird already installed in any snap? | 12:31 |
| seb128 | no | 12:32 |
| Laney | then how on earth can you solve this? | 12:32 |
| Laney | conjour out of thin air which themes you might want? | 12:32 |
| seb128 | well we are designing the system | 12:32 |
| seb128 | so for the purpose of the exerice the themes are snapped | 12:32 |
| seb128 | but still I install gedit 3.24 from snappy on unity | 12:32 |
| seb128 | it's smart and gives me ambiance 3.24 | 12:32 |
| seb128 | now I apt-get install xubuntu without touching snappy | 12:33 |
| Laney | only because that is the default theme | 12:33 |
| seb128 | that's where it gets tricky | 12:33 |
| seb128 | no | 12:33 |
| seb128 | well you could say because it's the desktop I use | 12:33 |
| seb128 | I'm on xubuntu xenial and install gedit 3.24 | 12:33 |
| seb128 | the software UI grabs greybird 3.24 for me and connect it | 12:33 |
| seb128 | all good | 12:33 |
| seb128 | until my sister logs into her unity session | 12:33 |
| seb128 | and see she has gedit looking like xubuntu | 12:34 |
| seb128 | or installing gedit 3.24 could pull in all the world existing gtk 3.24 themes | 12:34 |
| andyrock | seb128: i proposed (https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=769302) a fix for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1564375 | 12:34 |
| ubot5 | Gnome bug 769302 in Desktop "Desktop margins do not scale on high-dpi setups." [Minor,New] | 12:34 |
| ubot5 | Launchpad bug 1564375 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "Unity should take display scaling into account to avoid placement of desktop icons under launcher" [Medium,In progress] | 12:34 |
| seb128 | which is the only way I could see that to work | 12:34 |
| ogra_ | lol | 12:35 |
| seb128 | andyrock, great | 12:35 |
| andyrock | do you want me to build a debian patch for Y? | 12:35 |
| Laney | you're saying that all themes on the system have to be installed for all platforms | 12:35 |
| Laney | so do that | 12:35 |
| ogra_ | here is your 3GB gedit download | 12:35 |
| seb128 | yeah that's the issue | 12:35 |
| seb128 | I don't see a clean/proper solution to that | 12:35 |
| seb128 | I think we are going to loose platform visual integration | 12:35 |
| seb128 | same as on windows | 12:35 |
| seb128 | apps are going to come with their upstream look | 12:35 |
| seb128 | which is going to be the same on any OS or desktop env | 12:36 |
| seb128 | they are going to have 1 theme bundled and enforced | 12:36 |
| * ogra_ doesnt think we'll do, but i also think it is waaaay to early to bother about that beyod not having the visuals suck | 12:36 | |
| seb128 | the other "easy" option is to have each desktop providing its platform | 12:37 |
| andyrock | seb128: maybe you missed it... :) do you want me to build a debian patch for Y (and X)? | 12:37 |
| seb128 | so gedit 3.24 would connect to the GNOME platform if you are on gnome-shell and that includes adwaita | 12:37 |
| Laney | it's hard because you constructed a mixed deb/snap world | 12:37 |
| Laney | which implies some kind of bridge | 12:37 |
| seb128 | or to the UNity one unity that includes ambiance | 12:37 |
| ogra_ | you need a theme interface (provided either by your classic desktop or by a theme snap) that does the right bind mounts to the right places and bends the right env vars | 12:37 |
| seb128 | Laney, I didn't "construct" that world but I'm living in it, that's basically what we have on xenial today | 12:38 |
| seb128 | I'm not saying we can't design a better solution in all snap world | 12:38 |
| Laney | as much as we constructed the problem :) | 12:38 |
| ogra_ | seb128, i dont think it matters if it is all-snap or not | 12:39 |
| seb128 | well connecting to the right theme is easy | 12:39 |
| seb128 | ensuring the right theme is installing is less | 12:39 |
| ogra_ | the snap shouldnt need to care who provides the slot it connects its plug to | 12:39 |
| Laney | it matters because you have to get it installed | 12:39 |
| ogra_ | well, in an all-snap env you now have seed.yaml ... | 12:40 |
| seb128 | one way would be to have each theme having its snap | 12:40 |
| ogra_ | where you can list the default snaps installed in the image | 12:40 |
| ogra_ | right | 12:40 |
| seb128 | and having upstream supporting all versions of gtk | 12:41 |
| ogra_ | or have bundles | 12:41 |
| seb128 | and playing catchup | 12:41 |
| Laney | those things are requirements | 12:41 |
| Laney | you need snap for theme for platform version | 12:41 |
| Laney | then some way to keep the right ones installed | 12:41 |
| seb128 | the issue is that they might not even exist | 12:42 |
| seb128 | greybird 3.24 might not be available at the time you snap gedit 3.24 | 12:42 |
| ogra_ | thats what your seed yaml is for in all-snap ... and in classic your desktop can provide it dynamically | 12:42 |
| Laney | that's correct | 12:42 |
| Laney | the system would need to track it | 12:42 |
| seb128 | that's solvable but not easily :-/ | 12:42 |
| seb128 | need more mechanism that for fonts or dbg | 12:43 |
| ogra_ | well, your interface backend can care | 12:43 |
| seb128 | the backend can only match things that are available | 12:43 |
| ogra_ | your snap only sees the slot to plug into | 12:43 |
| ogra_ | sure | 12:43 |
| seb128 | like as said at the time gedit 3.24 comes out we might not have an ambiance 3.24 compatible css | 12:43 |
| ogra_ | so you have i.e. a gtk-themes-green snap ... that ships a tool to select bright or dark or yellowish greens ... | 12:44 |
| ogra_ | the app only connects to the slot | 12:44 |
| ogra_ | your setup happens on the backend side of the interface | 12:44 |
| ogra_ | which is either in your classic desktop or comes with the theme snap | 12:45 |
| ogra_ | your app doesnt have to care | 12:45 |
| seb128 | right | 12:45 |
| Laney | i should hope the apps don't care at all about the theme | 12:45 |
| seb128 | we "just" need to snap each theme and figure a way to autoinstall the right snaps depending on the available environments on your mahcine | 12:45 |
| seb128 | then to connect to the right slot | 12:46 |
| seb128 | though are snaps having a mount/instance by user? | 12:46 |
| seb128 | like if seb uses gedit on Unity and robert on xubuntu on the same machine and they need to connect to different slots? | 12:47 |
| ogra_ | we have a way | 12:50 |
| ogra_ | in the all-snap world there is the seed.yaml now ... thats in your image | 12:50 |
| ogra_ | and lists what snaps have to be preinstalled | 12:50 |
| ogra_ | in the non all-snap world we have a working mechanism already (debs) | 12:50 |
| Sweet5hark1 | woha. I got a _lot_ of bang for the buck out of seb128 and Laney with that one innocent question. | 12:50 |
| seb128 | lol | 12:50 |
| Laney | can of worms! | 12:50 |
| seb128 | ogra_, the issue not that, the issue is that the snap/slot you want to connect to depends of the active session | 12:51 |
| * Laney hits a button | 12:51 | |
| seb128 | so 2 users logged in at the same time might need the same snap connected to different themes | 12:51 |
| ogra_ | seb128, ah, not sure our design takes sessions into account yet ... but i could imagine we can add it and have a session-theme-interface that takes this into account | 12:53 |
| seb128 | yeah | 12:53 |
| ogra_ | thats actually a jamie question :) | 12:53 |
| seb128 | in any case not going to work tomorrow | 12:53 |
| seb128 | one better bundles all the themes he/she cares about today | 12:53 |
| ogra_ | i doubt anyone expects this to work tomorrow :) | 12:54 |
| Laney | then you don't know me AT ALL | 12:54 |
| Laney | THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE | 12:54 |
| ogra_ | what i personally expect today is to have my snaps not look like win95 | 12:54 |
| Laney | pretty sure the raleigh theme is dead these days | 12:54 |
| ogra_ | what i expect tomorrow is definitely more | 12:54 |
| Laney | so you get adwaita :) | 12:54 |
| Laney | which is actually nice | 12:54 |
| ogra_ | but there is still so much changing that i dont thinnk we can nail it right now | 12:55 |
| * Laney quivers | 13:21 | |
| attente | Laney: did you already upload? i think anpok still has some patches we could refresh with, but they're not upstream yet | 13:31 |
| Laney | attente: yes, but we can followup | 13:33 |
| Laney | get them committed ;-) | 13:33 |
| seb128 | seems like some people are looking a gtk on mir, duflu filed some bugs today | 13:34 |
| attente | Laney: they probably will be committed, do you want to take them as-is anyways? | 13:34 |
| seb128 | nice to see work ongoing there :-) | 13:34 |
| attente | it's these ones: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=768138 | 13:34 |
| ubot5 | Gnome bug 768138 in Backend: Mir "Update the GDK-Mir backend to fix a few problems" [Normal,New] | 13:34 |
| Laney | attente: up to you | 13:35 |
| Laney | ideally I would prefer cherry-picks, but you da man | 13:35 |
| Laney | seems like you still have some outstanding questions | 13:36 |
| Laney | ruh roh | 13:36 |
| Laney | gtk2 fails its arch-only build | 13:36 |
| * Laney re-merges | 13:36 | |
| === alan_g_ is now known as alan_g | ||
| Laney | the cpu usage graph in gnome-system-monitor is mesmerising in "stacked area chart" mode | 14:02 |
| seb128 | hum, I wonder if that's the first Ubuntu cycle where I might not upgrade my main machine to the unstable serie | 14:23 |
| ochosi | seb128: hah, that's comforting to hear :) | 14:27 |
| seb128 | :-) | 14:27 |
| seb128 | hey ochosi! how are you? | 14:27 |
| ochosi | hey :) good good | 14:28 |
| ochosi | now that my theme has been ported to SASS and is ready for gtk3.20 i sleep much better | 14:28 |
| ochosi | it was a bit of work, but less than i anticipated | 14:28 |
| ochosi | i read your funny conversation on snaps and themes just now | 14:28 |
| ochosi | this will be fun | 14:28 |
| * ochosi should use the word "fun" less often... | 14:29 | |
| ochosi | i agree with Laney though that applications shouldn't care about themes *at all* | 14:29 |
| ochosi | also, you can install one gtk theme and use it for multiple gtk3 versions | 14:29 |
| ochosi | at least that should work with gtk>=3.20 | 14:29 |
| ochosi | so you keep a gtk-3.0 and a gtk-3.20 in the theme folder and the correct one gets loaded by the application | 14:30 |
| seb128 | "fun" indeed :-) | 14:30 |
| ochosi | this could simplify your problem a bit | 14:30 |
| seb128 | right | 14:30 |
| seb128 | the issue is if you download a random theme from internet and install to ~/.theme or whatever it's going to work fine for your deb based env | 14:31 |
| seb128 | but not for your snaps | 14:31 |
| seb128 | but not a lot we can do that | 14:31 |
| ochosi | hm, why again? | 14:31 |
| seb128 | that->there | 14:31 |
| ochosi | (sry if i didn't understand that part when reading the history) | 14:31 |
| ochosi | is that a permission issue? | 14:31 |
| seb128 | no | 14:31 |
| seb128 | but let's say I'm on xenial and I download winxplike for gtk 3.18 and install that in ~/.themes and make it my unity theme | 14:32 |
| seb128 | then a few months later I install gedit 3.24 snap | 14:32 |
| seb128 | how would gedit look like winxplike | 14:32 |
| seb128 | the .themes is probably not going to be compatible with the bundled gtk from the snap | 14:33 |
| seb128 | and there is no way the system can know how to download a gtk3.24 version of that theme for you | 14:33 |
| ochosi | well | 14:35 |
| ochosi | that's sort of what i intended to say above | 14:35 |
| ochosi | if you have a theme that works for gtk-3.18, gtk-3.20 etc it can ship all of that in the same tarball and you can have it installed in parallel | 14:36 |
| ochosi | so ofc if a theme doesnt support gtk3.24 then you're in a mess, but that's *always* the same | 14:36 |
| seb128 | right | 14:36 |
| ochosi | i agree it's less easy to install gedit3.20 on xenial now | 14:37 |
| seb128 | except that currently Ubuntu is a working set | 14:37 |
| seb128 | right | 14:37 |
| ochosi | but that's the main difference | 14:37 |
| seb128 | Ubuntu doesn't provide currently a way to install a version of apps which isn't compatible with your theme | 14:37 |
| seb128 | so it's an issue we don't have | 14:37 |
| ochosi | yeah, but if you maintain your theme properly it will be backward compatible and work with older gtk version snaps as well | 14:37 |
| ochosi | you just have to always be in sync with adwaita | 14:37 |
| ochosi | THAT CAN'T BE HARD | 14:37 |
| ochosi | :D | 14:37 |
| seb128 | :-) | 14:38 |
| seb128 | until gtk4 | 14:38 |
| seb128 | or whatever :p | 14:38 |
| ochosi | :D | 14:39 |
| ochosi | exactly | 14:39 |
| ochosi | that's a problem of the snap concept itself | 14:39 |
| ochosi | a distro release is a matching set. | 14:39 |
| ochosi | a distro release with snaps is a rag rug. | 14:40 |
| flexiondotorg | Laney, I've added the affected MATE packages to LP: #1593048 | 14:42 |
| ubot5 | Launchpad bug 1593048 in ubuntu-themes (Ubuntu) "ubuntu-themes should support GTK 3.20" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1593048 | 14:42 |
| seb128 | right | 14:43 |
| flexiondotorg | I just uploaded mate-themes-3.20.10-0ubuntu1 to yakkety. | 14:43 |
| flexiondotorg | I'll prepare a new ubuntu-mate-artwork package on Monday/Tuesday next week. | 14:43 |
| flexiondotorg | And you backlog on themes and snaps. | 14:44 |
| flexiondotorg | Was the point of much discussion last week. | 14:44 |
| === flexiondotorg is now known as Wimpress | ||
| Sweet5hark1 | seb128: common just write a dbus service that autotranslates gtk themes between versions, so that the snapped app can ask for whatever it needs</sarc> | 15:04 |
| seb128 | :-) | 15:04 |
| willcooke | chrrrooooooooome | 15:18 |
| willcooke | where is my RAM | 15:18 |
| willcooke | 4 tabs open 2 GB RAM used. | 15:19 |
| flocculant | willcooke: get more RAM :p | 15:20 |
| * willcooke waits for s_eb128 to say something about using firefox | 15:20 | |
| willcooke | flocculant, :) | 15:20 |
| willcooke | I've got 6GB, that should be plenty | 15:20 |
| seb128 | right you are | 15:20 |
| flocculant | willcooke: and while you're there - do *you* know anything about the Turn Off Secure Boot installer option - or at least know who I could ask :) | 15:21 |
| * flocculant has never seen that and is being asked stuffs ... | 15:21 | |
| willcooke | I don't, but this is the sort of thing davmor2 usually knows about ^ | 15:22 |
| seb128 | willcooke, I've firefox open with a bunch of tabs and it uses 300M | 15:22 |
| seb128 | just saying | 15:22 |
| willcooke | heh | 15:22 |
| flocculant | willcooke: that was what I was thinking - but he's away :D | 15:22 |
| seb128 | flocculant, what do you want to know? | 15:22 |
| seb128 | cyphermox can probably help you | 15:22 |
| flocculant | aah yes - good call :) | 15:23 |
| flocculant | I've just been asked what it actually does - I'm kind of assuming it does what it says | 15:23 |
| seb128 | I guess so | 15:24 |
| flocculant | thanks all anyway :) | 15:24 |
| seb128 | yw | 15:24 |
| flocculant | :) | 15:24 |
| cyphermox | flocculant: that's largely it, it does what it says | 15:25 |
| flocculant | cyphermox: okey doke - thanks :) | 15:26 |
| cyphermox | disabling secure boot validation in shim -- which means that the shim signature (the MS signature, which gets checked by the BIOS directly) will still be verified, but nothing past that | 15:26 |
| cyphermox | in other words, that's something that only affects Linux if you dual-boot, and you're not touching the rest of the BIOS at all -- but it will affect any distro that uses shim | 15:27 |
| flocculant | cyphermox: thank you for some explanation - it's an installer option I've never seen | 15:29 |
| cyphermox | yes, it's new in xenial. | 15:29 |
| flocculant | I guessed as much :) | 15:29 |
| flocculant | cyphermox: I guess given I do *most* testing with vm's not something I would see | 15:30 |
| cyphermox | unless you used an EFI-enabled VM | 15:30 |
| cyphermox | urgh, speaking of which I need to fix my golden vm | 15:30 |
| flocculant | :) | 15:31 |
| flocculant | cyphermox: anyway - thanks for the explantion of that - which I will promptly forget :p | 15:31 |
| flocculant | weekend started early ;) | 15:31 |
| cyphermox | ah, nice :) | 15:32 |
| flocculant | :) | 15:32 |
| Laney | flocculant: neat | 15:40 |
| Laney | erm | 15:41 |
| Laney | fle | 15:41 |
| Laney | FLE TAB | 15:41 |
| Laney | FLEEHTOEHSATOAEHTOAHTOAEHTOAEHS | 15:41 |
| flocculant | Laney: you could try Wimpress instead - ochosi complained about nicks, just after infinity complained about nicks :D | 15:42 |
| * flocculant is still flocculant | 15:42 | |
| flocculant | \o/ | 15:42 |
| Laney | #neverchange | 15:43 |
| * Wimpress is flexiondotorg | 15:43 | |
| flocculant | :) | 15:43 |
| Laney | YOU | 15:43 |
| Laney | CHANGE BACK | 15:43 |
| Wimpress | It is a group nick, so I can change back. | 15:43 |
| Wimpress | But flocculant and I have been getting some stick. | 15:43 |
| Laney | what's a group nick? | 15:43 |
| Wimpress | Freenode can have multiple nicks registered to one identity. | 15:44 |
| flocculant | Laney: you can has many nicks | 15:44 |
| * flocculant used to have a bunch | 15:44 | |
| Laney | that's the inverse of how it sounds | 15:44 |
| flocculant | Laney could be Streety too | 15:44 |
| Wimpress | https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration | 15:44 |
| seb128 | having multiple personalities? ;-) | 15:44 |
| flocculant | seb128: can be useful ... | 15:45 |
| Laney | if only my IRC client tab comlpeted on freenode identifier | 15:45 |
| flocculant | seb128: especially for Wimpress | 15:45 |
| flocculant | though infinity won't be able to find him now though | 15:45 |
| * ochosi is Wimpressed | 15:46 | |
| flocculant | oh my | 15:46 |
| flocculant | new word \o/ | 15:46 |
| Laney | there's still a wi<tab> collision, by the way :-) | 15:47 |
| Laney | two letters are not enough | 15:48 |
| Laney | just ask cjohnston | 15:48 |
| cyphermox | Laney: I guess now I could merge your style changes in ubiquity and upload? | 15:50 |
| Wimpress | ochosi, Sadly my teachers at school were all very pleased with themselves when they were "Wimpressed" in my school reports ;-) | 15:50 |
| Laney | cyphermox: did I version the dependency to 3.20? | 15:51 |
| Laney | yes | 15:51 |
| Laney | then I'm happy if you are | 15:51 |
| cyphermox | yes | 15:51 |
| Laney | looks like gtk2 -4 builds | 15:52 |
| * Laney debdiffs and uploads that | 15:52 | |
| cyphermox | how far are we with the other packages? | 15:52 |
| Laney | [||--------------] | 15:52 |
| cyphermox | weeee | 15:52 |
| cyphermox | and everything needs to land together? | 15:53 |
| Laney | just some things | 15:53 |
| cyphermox | k | 15:53 |
| Laney | shit rain, brb, need to rescue clothes | 15:53 |
| jbicha | arewegtk320yet | 15:53 |
| cyphermox | meh | 15:53 |
| cyphermox | I just want to avoid ubiquity sitting in proposed for too long | 15:54 |
| seb128 | did somebody test ubiquity with the new gtk? | 15:54 |
| seb128 | or from backlog I guess Laney did :-) | 15:54 |
| Laney | indeed | 15:55 |
| Laney | cyphermox: won't be *too* long, hopefully | 15:56 |
| cyphermox | I implicitly trust Laney with css changes | 15:58 |
| Laney | don't | 15:58 |
| cyphermox | maybe that's my error :) | 15:58 |
| Laney | yes | 15:58 |
| cyphermox | it's not like it's likely to crash ubiquity though, it will just look like crap. | 15:58 |
| Laney | if nothing else, you should be happy with it because I don't want to have to revisit the problem | 15:59 |
| Laney | :) | 15:59 |
| Laney | it looked hilarious before | 15:59 |
| Laney | the progress bars went to their default size | 15:59 |
| flocculant | cyphermox: I will let you know for sure if it all looks completely bizarre for me :p | 15:59 |
| flocculant | I guess Laney might want to know as well | 16:00 |
| Laney | someone should just test the thing | 16:00 |
| Laney | and then fix it :-) | 16:00 |
| flocculant | Laney: I guess I'll just say it looks fine then :p | 16:01 |
| cyphermox | https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/16.10.6 | 16:01 |
| Laney | youuuuu | 16:02 |
| Laney | ok, there's gtk2 | 16:02 |
| Laney | theme time | 16:02 |
| Laney | don't suppose anyone wants to review that one? | 16:02 |
| * Laney giggles | 16:02 | |
| cyphermox | what? | 16:02 |
| attente | is there a trick to pop up the grub 2 menu on the dell xps? | 16:14 |
| seb128 | attente, have shift press after the bios and keep it this way until grub? | 16:16 |
| attente | seb128: tried that, but no luck | 16:16 |
| attente | just boots into my bad kernel build | 16:16 |
| Laney | turn it off while it's booting | 16:17 |
| Laney | then next time you get grub | 16:17 |
| Laney | the ghetto method | 16:17 |
| seb128 | I was going to suggest that but then people say I'm using hacks :p | 16:17 |
| Laney | :D | 16:18 |
| Laney | i love the seb128 hacks | 16:18 |
| Laney | they get the job done | 16:18 |
| seb128 | :-) | 16:18 |
| seb128 | attente, you can try to grub-reboot <n> | 16:19 |
| Laney | also, custom kernel is *such* an attente thing | 16:20 |
| Laney | bet there was some bisecting involved | 16:20 |
| attente | lol. ok, some combination of space/esc seemed to do it | 16:20 |
| seb128 | don't mock him, that's the path to greatness | 16:20 |
| Laney | i might bisect on monday | 16:21 |
| Laney | to find out what made unity-greeter break | 16:21 |
| seb128 | see :-) | 16:21 |
| Laney | in this case you can't script it to work with git bisect run though | 16:21 |
| Laney | that is the ultimate | 16:21 |
| seb128 | yeah, that's magic | 16:22 |
| seb128 | I know p_itti got some systemd regressions figured out like that, script it and let it do its work over the w.e | 16:23 |
| seb128 | come back a day later and have the commit | 16:23 |
| seb128 | talaaa | 16:23 |
| seb128 | k; enough snap debugging for this week | 16:33 |
| seb128 | calling a week there | 16:33 |
| seb128 | have a good w.e everyone! | 16:33 |
| Laney | night! | 16:34 |
| Laney | me too, time to go get rained on | 16:59 |
| Laney | bbbbbbbbbyyyyyyeeeee | 16:59 |
| willcooke_ | ditto | 17:02 |
| willcooke_ | night all | 17:02 |
| attente | need a new adwaita-icon-theme... | 17:37 |
| anpok | Laney: attente: will create a new version today.. have to drop one of the changes since there would be a regression with the upcoming 0.24 (unless I can still sneak in fixes into that release) | 17:40 |
| attente | i guess we also need to remove the 'adwaita-icon-theme (>= ${gnome:Version})' Depends on libgtk-3-common | 17:43 |
| jbicha | attente: I think that depends is ok | 18:01 |
| attente | jbicha: i'm concerned about the version, is someone going to package the 3.20 release of a-i-t? | 18:02 |
| jbicha | attente: yes, it's in https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ubuntu/gtk320 if you need it now | 18:03 |
| attente | jbicha: ah, ok. but i guess we need 3.20.6 at least. but good to know that it'll be there at some point | 18:05 |
| jbicha | no it doesn't have to be 3.20.6, 3.20 is fine | 18:06 |
| attente | oh, really? ok, thanks! | 18:07 |
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