[02:03] <Bashing-om> calling it .. later guys.
[05:08] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[05:21] <lotuspsychje> morning OerHeks
[05:22] <OerHeks> hi lotuspsychje :-D
[05:28] <lotuspsychje> only LTS in topic :p
[05:29] <dax> indeedy
[05:30] <dax> the people who want #ubuntu split into #ubuntu-lts and #ubuntu-not-lts-or-something-idk have their wish temporarily :3
[05:53] <\9> ah 15.10's support's been dropped now
[06:10] <lotuspsychje> nice
[06:11] <lotuspsychje> new 16.10 lubuntu wallpaper rox
[06:11] <lotuspsychje> best ever
[06:13] <ducasse> \o
[06:14] <lotuspsychje> bbl :p
[09:04] <ducasse> for ubuntu-maintained software like unity, are feature requests made on the bugtracker?
[09:08] <popey> generally, yes, but if someone has a design /prototype then usually a mailing list post or blog post is more appropriate
[09:08] <popey> but bugs are fine
[09:09] <ducasse> ok, thanks - i'll remember that next time someone asks.
[09:46] <BluesKaj> 'Morning
[09:50] <ducasse> \o
[14:37] <ducasse> i clearly won't be getting any more asus boards if this is the state of their firmware now...
[15:23] <daftykins> ducasse: firmware is bad on every brand for Linux i think!
[15:23] <daftykins> it's a sign of how life is harder for your choices unfortunately, across the board - not the brand
[15:24] <ducasse> yup, seems a general trend. i worry about hardware might become more locked down in the future, with things like secure boot that can't be disabled etc.
[15:25] <daftykins> there's been as much sensational reporting about that as there has been about Windows these days, i have yet to come up against a system that couldn't be Linuxified! :)
[15:27] <ducasse> a lot of distros support sb anyway, but not all, and systems where it can not be disabled has started to appear, unfortunately.
[15:28] <ducasse> i just instinctively distrust hardware with drm and similar crap :)
[15:31] <daftykins> i did hear concerns they would go that way, but we never had one in all my time in #ubuntu at least
[15:31] <daftykins> there were a couple where extra options became available once you set a password inside apparently
[15:33] <ducasse> i've seen those, but there has been at least one in #ubuntu recently that i recall where it definitely could not be turned off, and one yesterday where reviews had said that option was missing.
[15:33] <daftykins> ah ok
[15:33] <daftykins> 99% of the time i think it's the challenge of dealing with the users :(
[15:33] <ducasse> didn't dig into the last one any more as i was busy.
[15:34] <ducasse> it can be hard just getting them into the bios :)
[15:34] <daftykins> yip
[15:34] <daftykins> can't save 'em all
[15:35] <daftykins> oh come to think of it, those really cheap Lenovos with the eMMC 'SSD' that come with like, "windows 8.1 with bing" are often a no go
[15:35] <daftykins> but that's the case of someone trying to be too budget and getting burnt for it
[15:36] <ducasse> if they are "certified for wondows 8/8.1", there _must_ be an option to disable sb. not so for w10.
[15:36] <ducasse> *windows, obviously.
[15:37] <ducasse> but those cheap notebooks are so often utter crap.
[15:39] <ducasse> ('must' as in, according to the certification rules. not saying nobody has ever broken them.)
[15:54] <ducasse> backups <3
[15:55] <ducasse> also, zfs snapshots <3
[15:55] <BluesKaj> daftykins, I have an inexpensive lenovo G500 laptop that had W8.1 which i promptly removed and replaced with kubuntu then added W7 and it runs very well on both OSs. no eMMC SSD tho just a !TB HDD and 8G Ram
[15:56] <daftykins> BluesKaj: yeah that's not "8.1 with Bing", which is a totally different animal - sometimes it uses a 32-bit EFI to make modification a hassle
[15:56] <BluesKaj> altho windows update hasn't updated a thing since june 13 ...it tries but nothing comes down
[15:56] <JanC> ducasse: secure boot seems to work fine with my ASUS motherboard?
[15:57] <daftykins> unfortunately they've gimped WU on pre-10 now so i've seen it take 12 hours to check for updates :(
[15:57] <daftykins> JanC: no two boards are the same ;) anecdotal evidence is no proof
[15:57] <ducasse> JanC: sure, but there are disadvantages to using it, and some people just plain don't want it.
[15:58] <JanC> disadvantages?
[15:58] <ducasse> JanC: like with 16.04 kernel modules need to be signed when sb is enabled, so you must either disable it or sign yourself if using dkms.
[15:59] <JanC> well, obviously
[16:00] <ducasse> JanC: that is a major hassle for a lot of users, so most simply disable it.
[16:00] <JanC> although, that's more a "limitation" of the kernel really
[16:00] <BluesKaj> daftykins, wth is Bing? , don't recall that
[16:01] <ducasse> JanC: it's a kernel option, but also how sb was designed to work aiui.
[16:01] <daftykins> BluesKaj: Bing is microsoft's search engine, 8.1 with Bing is a cheap license for computer OEMs to put on low cost machines that defaults to Bing as the search engine all across it
[16:02] <daftykins> kinda like a way to provide windows 8 cheap on netbook-esque systems in the modern day in place of the old strategy of XP on netbooks
[16:03] <BluesKaj> oh that, now I remember, I tend to dismiss stuff the I don't care about, even in the memory :-)
[16:04] <daftykins> :>
[16:04] <daftykins> know your enemy, i say :>
[16:04] <daftykins> too many #ubuntu 'customers' picking up cheap machines and wondering why they can't get Linux on
[16:05] <JanC> UEFI SB only applies as far as when it loads/boots "something", after that the next step in the chain is doing it's own checking
[16:05] <\9> what is the usual reason for that?
[16:06] <daftykins> reason for what?
[16:06] <\9> for their linux not working
[16:06] <daftykins> some of these machines used 32-bit EFIs which complicates matters
[16:06] <\9> oh
[16:06] <daftykins> others implemented methods hardcoded to only boot a given image name in the EFI partition, also...
[16:07] <daftykins> there are several strategies employed really
[16:07] <daftykins> EriC^^ is our resident boot expert :>
[16:07]  * \9 is supposed to get a new computer today… in pieces
[16:10] <BluesKaj> \9, barebones kit  or enhanced with goodies ?
[16:11] <\9> getting a pretty high-end one
[16:11] <ducasse> new computers in pieces are the best kind :)
[16:11] <\9> except i did not get a graphics card because i don't know what kind of graphics card i need, or i even need one
[16:11] <\9> so I'm reserving the right to decide later :P
[16:14] <daftykins> sounds wise to me, what with the ubiquity of on-die graphics now
[16:15] <BluesKaj> gpus are a matter for what the machine is used...just an inexpensive nvidia 8400GS here for video and movies no games
[16:16] <daftykins> i booted 16.04.1 on an 8400GS on one of these old core 2 duos and found it particularly grating on nouveau
[16:16] <\9> indeed, so I'm going to roll with integrated for now until I hit a wall
[16:16] <BluesKaj> daftykins, yeah nouveau doesn't do too weel on the 8400
[16:16] <BluesKaj> well
[16:17] <daftykins> *nod* i find myself wondering what hardware it does work with!
[16:17] <daftykins> my understanding was that AMD have only just begun their new open source driver development, so no ideas how that's running for now - if i used Linux i'd probably still buy nvidia
[16:17] <BluesKaj> nvidia-340 is the recommended driver and it's fine
[16:23] <daftykins> i think i was fiddling and had a disparate configuration between HWE stacks, kernels and X.org packages at the time so installing proprietary gave me failed logins... which is amusingly what happened to all those folks i used to help XD
[16:23] <daftykins> it wasn't an important install though, just a brief test
[16:26] <\9> yay, my pieces just arrived!
[16:27] <daftykins> \o/
[16:27]  * daftykins gets the glue
[16:35] <EriC^^> hello guys
[16:35] <EriC^^> what's cracking?
[16:36] <daftykins> hey!
[16:36] <daftykins> mmm not much going on with me, posted some 7 year old RAM under warranty today :D
[16:36] <daftykins> fixed a friends wifes phone just by touching it XD the usual!
[16:36] <EriC^^> nice
[16:37] <EriC^^> haha
[16:37] <daftykins> how are you?
[16:37] <EriC^^> i'm good
[16:37] <EriC^^> some mechanic kind of screwed me over
[16:38] <daftykins> D:
[16:38] <daftykins> tell us his/her name and we'll send Tux over
[16:38] <EriC^^> $1000 for parts, $600 for labor, should have been like $300 for labor + he lied and put the wrong part
[16:39] <daftykins> wowzer
[16:39] <daftykins> anything you can do?
[16:39] <EriC^^> i could have him get another part but he's a liar
[16:40] <EriC^^> if i tell him it's not it he could make up a million shit
[16:40] <daftykins> have you paid already?
[16:40] <EriC^^> yeah
[16:40] <daftykins> doh :(
[16:40] <EriC^^> it's the steering rack
[16:41] <EriC^^> he put a normal bmw steering rack and the m2 one is shorter, so like when i turn a corner usually it needs like 15' or so now it needs maybe 30'
[16:42] <daftykins> mmm that could be a bit dangerous in the long run surely
[16:42] <EriC^^> it's a classic m3 (first one bmw made) and the steering is like part of it's characteristics so it sucks that he didn't put the m3 rack
[16:43] <EriC^^> dangerous no, it just isn't that nice to drive, and lost a little of it's characteristic
[16:43] <daftykins> :<
[16:43] <EriC^^> it had leaked like 4 years ago, and i didn't put a normal rack for it (couldn't find the m3 one) and i rather drove it without power steering til i figured something out
[16:43] <EriC^^> then i came up with a way to get it to work
[16:44] <EriC^^> and this guy said he has m3 parts and i was fixing other stuff and he said he could fit it, so i figured yeah sure
[16:44] <EriC^^> and he lied
[16:44] <ducasse> EriC^^: can't you just ask him 'hypothetically' how hard it would be to do car repairs while in a wheelchair? ;)
[16:44] <daftykins> hahaha
[16:44] <EriC^^> lol
[16:45] <ducasse> not nice, i know.
[16:48] <\9> gee it feels like christmas opening that package
[16:48] <\9> time to sink into manuals
[16:49] <daftykins> :D
[16:59] <\9> ~
[17:02] <OerHeks> ~~~~~/\~~~~~~\o/~~~~~~
[17:02]  * daftykins taps his foot
[17:03]  * OerHeks whiskers his ears
[18:57] <Bashing-om> Gotta run to town .. be back shortly ( most likely).
[18:58] <daftykins> Tuxspeed, sir
[19:31] <Bashing-om> Thanky daftykins .. was .. now to play catchup on what happened whilest away .
[19:32] <daftykins> :)
[19:32] <daftykins> http://imgur.com/a/r1ouC this happened!
[19:32] <daftykins> ;)
[19:40] <Bashing-om> Nice fresh, shiney and new .. so pretty when so clean !
[19:41] <daftykins> :D it's actually 7 years old and has blown capacitors, but by chance i found out the RAM that *was* in it was faulty, so i gave it another spin just now and it came up!
[19:43] <Bashing-om> daftykins: Oh .. so now you are a qualified soldier ?
[19:44] <daftykins> oh i wish, i should learn soon though - no, oddly it still works with 5+ bad caps on
[19:44] <daftykins> i'm sure it's a bad idea to use for any length of time whilst they're still bad, but i thought i'd give it a quick try ;)
[19:44] <daftykins> * :)
[19:46] <Bashing-om> :) nothing succeeds like trying .
[19:53] <Bashing-om> daftykins: ^^ 7 yr old .. how in the world did you get the fan blades so clean ?
[19:58] <daftykins> Bashing-om: hehe, toothbrush :)
[20:00] <Bashing-om> Ho-kay .. now I am a believer in toothbrushes ..
[20:01] <daftykins> they're pretty good though the retail intel ones, very reliable in my experience too
[20:27] <quantibiliy> alright who else is having some issues with ubuntu 16?
[20:30] <Bashing-om> quantibiliy: Not me .. 16.04 - updatd to 16.04.1 .. solid as a rock . No fault here .
[20:31] <quantibiliy> yeah then perhaps its xubuntu's issue sorry to bother, just angry
[20:32] <daftykins> not the right channel for a support query
[20:33] <Bashing-om> quantibiliy: Being in an angry state, clouds one judgemnet . This is 'buntu, and we do believe where there is a problem there is a solution .
[20:34] <quantibiliy> yes im trying to calm down
[20:35] <quantibiliy> i had my set up great didn't realize when i "removed obsolete software" I got rid of my graphics drivers and various other things..
[20:35] <quantibiliy> and yet still haven't fixed my indicator box either..
[20:35] <quantibiliy> thought it would
[20:37] <daftykins> try from the guest account / a clean account, could be your dot files.
[21:01] <quantibiliy> daftykins,  yes a fresh install or possibly a guest account... could make the indicator box stay to the right but its hugging to the left of the bar, it happens once you try to add or remove panel
[21:01] <daftykins> mmhmm
[21:03] <quantibiliy> i mean the bar fills and pushes the indicators to the right.. so tits not blocking anything just won't stay to the right
[21:11] <Bashing-om> Yuk .. back from power outage . - back is a good thing .
[21:11] <daftykins> erk!
[21:11] <daftykins> i don't miss those days of regular power disruption
[21:12] <Bashing-om> When Oh when am I going to repair that UPS !
[21:14] <daftykins> first thing Monday!
[22:58] <Bashing-om> OerHeks: Recon mike is making more of this than it is .. beating himself up real bad ! Is he ready now to learn ?
[23:03] <OerHeks> well, i have no clue how to tell him, that 635m is not the newest, and that he should be happy with it.
[23:04] <OerHeks> best advise is the auto install, that gives (even with ppa) the best driver tested.
[23:04] <OerHeks> this is his 4th day trying, AFAIK
[23:04] <daftykins> :)
[23:05] <Bashing-om> Uh huh .. will keep that in mind .. the system should know what is best .
[23:06] <OerHeks> we exchanges lists, didn't we? i have a part for systemd and drivers, still need to go through yours and monkeydust lists
[23:06] <OerHeks> http://paste.ubuntu.com/21456561/
[23:07] <daftykins> ooh
[23:07] <daftykins> so that's how you guys do it :D
[23:08] <Bashing-om> we get 10% pf the proceeds ( royalty fee ) :)
[23:08] <daftykins> hahaha
[23:08] <OerHeks> for every pennie, i give 2 pennies to the WHOTTW-fund
[23:08] <OerHeks> who-helps-oerheks-through-the-winter*
[23:09] <daftykins> :D
[23:09] <daftykins> hmm some of my favourites are quite rarely useful, perhaps - such as watching your CPU clock speeds scale in realtime:
[23:10] <daftykins> watch -n 0.1 'grep -i mhz /proc/cpuinfo'
[23:10] <daftykins> a really ugly way to see progress from dd:
[23:10] <daftykins> watch -n 30 'sudo kill -USR1 $pid_of_dd'
[23:11] <OerHeks> packagemanager gives a nice progressbar in terminal nowadays
[23:11] <daftykins> oh? i'd vaguely heard of better ways for progress but can't remember them, yet
[23:12] <OerHeks> that needa a package iirc
[23:12] <Bashing-om> I still do 'dd' progress the old fashioned way .. the directive is in the man command .
[23:13] <daftykins> oh? i was using -USR1 via kill on the PID, just chaining it with 'watch' so i could get an output every 30 seconds
[23:14] <OerHeks> !info pq
[23:14] <OerHeks> !info pv
[23:15] <daftykins> EriC^^: wb!
[23:15] <EriC^^> thanks daftykins
[23:19]  * daftykins tests another board since the surprise faulty RAM confirmation
[23:20] <OerHeks> yay !cookie Bashing-om
[23:20] <OerHeks> hoi EriC^^
[23:20] <EriC^^> hey OerHeks
[23:21] <Bashing-om> OerHeks: I never had a doubt was operator error .. in mike's case . :)
[23:22] <OerHeks> i guess we would have found plenty of bugreports
[23:25] <Bashing-om> Still, with a long way to go in thoughtful progression to fault isolation .
[23:27] <OerHeks> the future will be boring, with such tools.
[23:30] <Bashing-om> Oh the day .. AI .. and computers do our think'n for us . sheessshhh.
[23:30] <OerHeks> You are a rare pokemon :-D
[23:34] <Bashing-om> One of these days I will know as much as I think I know, and add to what I know what OerHeks knows .. than I will be a rare pokemon :-)
[23:35] <OerHeks> i can imagine, with the knowledge of daftykins on top of that, they'ĺl be hunting for ya
[23:35] <daftykins> ooh this other board POSTs again :D
[23:35] <daftykins> silly faulty RAM tricked me!
[23:39] <Bashing-om> Well .. the better thing is that I have access to yall here on IRC .. and I have direct access to yall's brains . ( do not have to consume my own personal ram ) .