[02:03] calling it .. later guys. [05:08] good morning to all [05:21] morning OerHeks [05:22] hi lotuspsychje :-D [05:28] only LTS in topic :p [05:29] indeedy [05:30] the people who want #ubuntu split into #ubuntu-lts and #ubuntu-not-lts-or-something-idk have their wish temporarily :3 [05:53] <\9> ah 15.10's support's been dropped now [06:10] nice [06:11] new 16.10 lubuntu wallpaper rox [06:11] best ever [06:13] \o [06:14] bbl :p [09:04] for ubuntu-maintained software like unity, are feature requests made on the bugtracker? [09:08] generally, yes, but if someone has a design /prototype then usually a mailing list post or blog post is more appropriate [09:08] but bugs are fine [09:09] ok, thanks - i'll remember that next time someone asks. [09:46] 'Morning [09:50] \o [14:37] i clearly won't be getting any more asus boards if this is the state of their firmware now... [15:23] ducasse: firmware is bad on every brand for Linux i think! [15:23] it's a sign of how life is harder for your choices unfortunately, across the board - not the brand [15:24] yup, seems a general trend. i worry about hardware might become more locked down in the future, with things like secure boot that can't be disabled etc. [15:25] there's been as much sensational reporting about that as there has been about Windows these days, i have yet to come up against a system that couldn't be Linuxified! :) [15:27] a lot of distros support sb anyway, but not all, and systems where it can not be disabled has started to appear, unfortunately. [15:28] i just instinctively distrust hardware with drm and similar crap :) [15:31] i did hear concerns they would go that way, but we never had one in all my time in #ubuntu at least [15:31] there were a couple where extra options became available once you set a password inside apparently [15:33] i've seen those, but there has been at least one in #ubuntu recently that i recall where it definitely could not be turned off, and one yesterday where reviews had said that option was missing. [15:33] ah ok [15:33] 99% of the time i think it's the challenge of dealing with the users :( [15:33] didn't dig into the last one any more as i was busy. [15:34] it can be hard just getting them into the bios :) [15:34] yip [15:34] can't save 'em all [15:35] oh come to think of it, those really cheap Lenovos with the eMMC 'SSD' that come with like, "windows 8.1 with bing" are often a no go [15:35] but that's the case of someone trying to be too budget and getting burnt for it [15:36] if they are "certified for wondows 8/8.1", there _must_ be an option to disable sb. not so for w10. [15:36] *windows, obviously. [15:37] but those cheap notebooks are so often utter crap. [15:39] ('must' as in, according to the certification rules. not saying nobody has ever broken them.) [15:54] backups <3 [15:55] also, zfs snapshots <3 [15:55] daftykins, I have an inexpensive lenovo G500 laptop that had W8.1 which i promptly removed and replaced with kubuntu then added W7 and it runs very well on both OSs. no eMMC SSD tho just a !TB HDD and 8G Ram [15:56] BluesKaj: yeah that's not "8.1 with Bing", which is a totally different animal - sometimes it uses a 32-bit EFI to make modification a hassle [15:56] altho windows update hasn't updated a thing since june 13 ...it tries but nothing comes down [15:56] ducasse: secure boot seems to work fine with my ASUS motherboard? [15:57] unfortunately they've gimped WU on pre-10 now so i've seen it take 12 hours to check for updates :( [15:57] JanC: no two boards are the same ;) anecdotal evidence is no proof [15:57] JanC: sure, but there are disadvantages to using it, and some people just plain don't want it. [15:58] disadvantages? [15:58] JanC: like with 16.04 kernel modules need to be signed when sb is enabled, so you must either disable it or sign yourself if using dkms. [15:59] well, obviously [16:00] JanC: that is a major hassle for a lot of users, so most simply disable it. [16:00] although, that's more a "limitation" of the kernel really [16:00] daftykins, wth is Bing? , don't recall that [16:01] JanC: it's a kernel option, but also how sb was designed to work aiui. [16:01] BluesKaj: Bing is microsoft's search engine, 8.1 with Bing is a cheap license for computer OEMs to put on low cost machines that defaults to Bing as the search engine all across it [16:02] kinda like a way to provide windows 8 cheap on netbook-esque systems in the modern day in place of the old strategy of XP on netbooks [16:03] oh that, now I remember, I tend to dismiss stuff the I don't care about, even in the memory :-) [16:04] :> [16:04] know your enemy, i say :> [16:04] too many #ubuntu 'customers' picking up cheap machines and wondering why they can't get Linux on [16:05] UEFI SB only applies as far as when it loads/boots "something", after that the next step in the chain is doing it's own checking [16:05] <\9> what is the usual reason for that? [16:06] reason for what? [16:06] <\9> for their linux not working [16:06] some of these machines used 32-bit EFIs which complicates matters [16:06] <\9> oh [16:06] others implemented methods hardcoded to only boot a given image name in the EFI partition, also... [16:07] there are several strategies employed really [16:07] EriC^^ is our resident boot expert :> [16:07] * \9 is supposed to get a new computer today… in pieces [16:10] \9, barebones kit or enhanced with goodies ? [16:11] <\9> getting a pretty high-end one [16:11] new computers in pieces are the best kind :) [16:11] <\9> except i did not get a graphics card because i don't know what kind of graphics card i need, or i even need one [16:11] <\9> so I'm reserving the right to decide later :P [16:14] sounds wise to me, what with the ubiquity of on-die graphics now [16:15] gpus are a matter for what the machine is used...just an inexpensive nvidia 8400GS here for video and movies no games [16:16] i booted 16.04.1 on an 8400GS on one of these old core 2 duos and found it particularly grating on nouveau [16:16] <\9> indeed, so I'm going to roll with integrated for now until I hit a wall [16:16] daftykins, yeah nouveau doesn't do too weel on the 8400 [16:16] well [16:17] *nod* i find myself wondering what hardware it does work with! [16:17] my understanding was that AMD have only just begun their new open source driver development, so no ideas how that's running for now - if i used Linux i'd probably still buy nvidia [16:17] nvidia-340 is the recommended driver and it's fine [16:23] i think i was fiddling and had a disparate configuration between HWE stacks, kernels and X.org packages at the time so installing proprietary gave me failed logins... which is amusingly what happened to all those folks i used to help XD [16:23] it wasn't an important install though, just a brief test [16:26] <\9> yay, my pieces just arrived! [16:27] \o/ [16:27] * daftykins gets the glue [16:35] hello guys [16:35] what's cracking? [16:36] hey! [16:36] mmm not much going on with me, posted some 7 year old RAM under warranty today :D [16:36] fixed a friends wifes phone just by touching it XD the usual! [16:36] nice [16:37] haha [16:37] how are you? [16:37] i'm good [16:37] some mechanic kind of screwed me over [16:38] D: [16:38] tell us his/her name and we'll send Tux over [16:38] $1000 for parts, $600 for labor, should have been like $300 for labor + he lied and put the wrong part [16:39] wowzer [16:39] anything you can do? [16:39] i could have him get another part but he's a liar [16:40] if i tell him it's not it he could make up a million shit [16:40] have you paid already? [16:40] yeah [16:40] doh :( [16:40] it's the steering rack [16:41] he put a normal bmw steering rack and the m2 one is shorter, so like when i turn a corner usually it needs like 15' or so now it needs maybe 30' [16:42] mmm that could be a bit dangerous in the long run surely [16:42] it's a classic m3 (first one bmw made) and the steering is like part of it's characteristics so it sucks that he didn't put the m3 rack [16:43] dangerous no, it just isn't that nice to drive, and lost a little of it's characteristic [16:43] :< [16:43] it had leaked like 4 years ago, and i didn't put a normal rack for it (couldn't find the m3 one) and i rather drove it without power steering til i figured something out [16:43] then i came up with a way to get it to work [16:44] and this guy said he has m3 parts and i was fixing other stuff and he said he could fit it, so i figured yeah sure [16:44] and he lied [16:44] EriC^^: can't you just ask him 'hypothetically' how hard it would be to do car repairs while in a wheelchair? ;) [16:44] hahaha [16:44] lol [16:45] not nice, i know. [16:48] <\9> gee it feels like christmas opening that package [16:48] <\9> time to sink into manuals [16:49] :D [16:59] <\9> ~ [17:02] ~~~~~/\~~~~~~\o/~~~~~~ [17:02] * daftykins taps his foot [17:03] * OerHeks whiskers his ears [18:57] Gotta run to town .. be back shortly ( most likely). [18:58] Tuxspeed, sir [19:31] Thanky daftykins .. was .. now to play catchup on what happened whilest away . [19:32] :) [19:32] http://imgur.com/a/r1ouC this happened! [19:32] ;) [19:40] Nice fresh, shiney and new .. so pretty when so clean ! [19:41] :D it's actually 7 years old and has blown capacitors, but by chance i found out the RAM that *was* in it was faulty, so i gave it another spin just now and it came up! [19:43] daftykins: Oh .. so now you are a qualified soldier ? [19:44] oh i wish, i should learn soon though - no, oddly it still works with 5+ bad caps on [19:44] i'm sure it's a bad idea to use for any length of time whilst they're still bad, but i thought i'd give it a quick try ;) [19:44] * :) === Tachyon_ is now known as TTachyon [19:46] :) nothing succeeds like trying . [19:53] daftykins: ^^ 7 yr old .. how in the world did you get the fan blades so clean ? [19:58] Bashing-om: hehe, toothbrush :) [20:00] Ho-kay .. now I am a believer in toothbrushes .. [20:01] they're pretty good though the retail intel ones, very reliable in my experience too [20:27] alright who else is having some issues with ubuntu 16? [20:30] quantibiliy: Not me .. 16.04 - updatd to 16.04.1 .. solid as a rock . No fault here . [20:31] yeah then perhaps its xubuntu's issue sorry to bother, just angry [20:32] not the right channel for a support query [20:33] quantibiliy: Being in an angry state, clouds one judgemnet . This is 'buntu, and we do believe where there is a problem there is a solution . [20:34] yes im trying to calm down [20:35] i had my set up great didn't realize when i "removed obsolete software" I got rid of my graphics drivers and various other things.. [20:35] and yet still haven't fixed my indicator box either.. [20:35] thought it would [20:37] try from the guest account / a clean account, could be your dot files. [21:01] daftykins, yes a fresh install or possibly a guest account... could make the indicator box stay to the right but its hugging to the left of the bar, it happens once you try to add or remove panel [21:01] mmhmm [21:03] i mean the bar fills and pushes the indicators to the right.. so tits not blocking anything just won't stay to the right [21:11] Yuk .. back from power outage . - back is a good thing . [21:11] erk! [21:11] i don't miss those days of regular power disruption [21:12] When Oh when am I going to repair that UPS ! [21:14] first thing Monday! [22:58] OerHeks: Recon mike is making more of this than it is .. beating himself up real bad ! Is he ready now to learn ? [23:03] well, i have no clue how to tell him, that 635m is not the newest, and that he should be happy with it. [23:04] best advise is the auto install, that gives (even with ppa) the best driver tested. [23:04] this is his 4th day trying, AFAIK [23:04] :) [23:05] Uh huh .. will keep that in mind .. the system should know what is best . [23:06] we exchanges lists, didn't we? i have a part for systemd and drivers, still need to go through yours and monkeydust lists [23:06] http://paste.ubuntu.com/21456561/ [23:07] ooh [23:07] so that's how you guys do it :D [23:08] we get 10% pf the proceeds ( royalty fee ) :) [23:08] hahaha [23:08] for every pennie, i give 2 pennies to the WHOTTW-fund [23:08] who-helps-oerheks-through-the-winter* [23:09] :D [23:09] hmm some of my favourites are quite rarely useful, perhaps - such as watching your CPU clock speeds scale in realtime: [23:10] watch -n 0.1 'grep -i mhz /proc/cpuinfo' [23:10] a really ugly way to see progress from dd: [23:10] watch -n 30 'sudo kill -USR1 $pid_of_dd' [23:11] packagemanager gives a nice progressbar in terminal nowadays [23:11] oh? i'd vaguely heard of better ways for progress but can't remember them, yet [23:12] that needa a package iirc [23:12] I still do 'dd' progress the old fashioned way .. the directive is in the man command . [23:13] oh? i was using -USR1 via kill on the PID, just chaining it with 'watch' so i could get an output every 30 seconds [23:14] !info pq [23:14] pq (source: pq): Progress Quest is a "fire and forget" computer role-playing game. In component multiverse, is optional. Version 6.2-0ubuntu3 (xenial), package size 318 kB, installed size 496 kB [23:14] !info pv [23:14] pv (source: pv): Shell pipeline element to meter data passing through. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.6.0-1 (xenial), package size 48 kB, installed size 169 kB [23:15] EriC^^: wb! [23:15] thanks daftykins [23:19] * daftykins tests another board since the surprise faulty RAM confirmation [23:20] yay !cookie Bashing-om [23:20] hoi EriC^^ [23:20] hey OerHeks [23:21] OerHeks: I never had a doubt was operator error .. in mike's case . :) [23:22] i guess we would have found plenty of bugreports [23:25] Still, with a long way to go in thoughtful progression to fault isolation . [23:27] the future will be boring, with such tools. [23:30] Oh the day .. AI .. and computers do our think'n for us . sheessshhh. [23:30] You are a rare pokemon :-D [23:34] One of these days I will know as much as I think I know, and add to what I know what OerHeks knows .. than I will be a rare pokemon :-) [23:35] i can imagine, with the knowledge of daftykins on top of that, they'ĺl be hunting for ya [23:35] ooh this other board POSTs again :D [23:35] silly faulty RAM tricked me! [23:39] Well .. the better thing is that I have access to yall here on IRC .. and I have direct access to yall's brains . ( do not have to consume my own personal ram ) .