[05:48] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[06:12] <OerHeks> hi lotus
[06:38] <ducasse> hi all
[06:41] <lotuspsychje> hey OerHeks & ducasse
[06:41] <lotuspsychje> how are you guys doing
[06:42] <ducasse> good thanks, yourself? work today?
[06:44] <lotuspsychje> 3 days off :p
[06:45] <ducasse> \o/ working on things for your shop instead?
[06:46] <lotuspsychje> yep
[06:47] <lotuspsychje> its getting shaped a bit now :p
[06:47] <lotuspsychje> http://lotuscomputers.be
[06:47] <lotuspsychje> logo needs to be centered and more space to searchbar still
[06:48] <lotuspsychje> and more categories coming without the pink text
[06:49] <OerHeks> get a free certificate :-)
[06:50] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: what can i do with it?
[06:50] <OerHeks> Then you would have https
[06:51] <OerHeks> you know, that s that gives people trust
[06:51] <lotuspsychje> like your page you mean?
[06:51] <OerHeks> yes, then we will see https://lotuscomputers.be
[06:52] <lotuspsychje> oh
[06:52] <lotuspsychje> ill talk to my admin :p
[06:52] <ducasse> +1 on https
[06:52] <OerHeks> https://letsencrypt.org/ or an other vendor
[06:52] <lotuspsychje> hi EriC^^
[06:53] <OerHeks> or cacert.org ( old one)
[06:54] <EriC^^> hi lotuspsychje
[06:55] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: what advantages does https have for the end user?
[06:55] <OerHeks> If i would buy with you, i expect a ssl connection.
[06:56] <EriC^^> the info is secure
[06:56] <EriC^^> god damn, the iphone back cover popped off suddenly
[06:56] <lotuspsychje> oO
[06:56] <EriC^^> didn't drop it or anything (iirc)
[06:56] <OerHeks> does not matter if there is money involved, any private info like name/adress and such too.
[06:56] <EriC^^> it's the old 4s
[06:56] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: ok tnx
[06:57] <EriC^^> OerHeks: letsencrypt is for free right?
[06:57] <OerHeks> EriC^^, what might have caused this, heat?
[06:57] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: our almera transmission box is pretty dead, buying a new car friday 2nd hand
[06:57] <OerHeks> yes.
[06:57] <EriC^^> OerHeks: maybe, i didn't leave it in the car or anything though
[06:57] <EriC^^> but sometimes i leave the flashlight on and put it in my pocket
[06:58] <EriC^^> so maybe that caused it, ah also i used the "hairdryer" method a few months back where you heat it up at the back and it resets and the wifi bug goes
[06:58] <OerHeks> heat/moisture .. or that phone is desintegrading after x years :-D
[06:58] <EriC^^> lotuspsychje: nice
[06:58] <EriC^^> what are you getting?
[06:58] <EriC^^> yup
[06:59] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: a black nissan note from 2008
[06:59] <EriC^^> i'm waiting for sept to get the 7 when it comes out
[06:59] <EriC^^> no point in getting the 6s anymore
[06:59] <EriC^^> finally no more apps wont work with ios x errors :D
[07:00] <EriC^^> also i want the slow motion camera badly
[07:01] <EriC^^> lotuspsychje: cool
[07:01] <EriC^^> how's the site coming together?
[07:03] <lotuspsychje> http://lotuscomputers.be
[07:03] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: being worked on
[07:03] <EriC^^> advies?
[07:04] <lotuspsychje> advice
[07:05] <lotuspsychje> security advice etc
[07:05] <EriC^^> aha
[07:05] <EriC^^> the old ad thing looked sick
[07:06] <lotuspsychje> ad thing?
[07:06] <EriC^^> yeah that box that had ads that come and go
[07:08] <OerHeks> wait.. i can call lotus \0/ .. lotus, add +32 in front of your phone number
[07:08] <lotuspsychje> lol
[07:08] <OerHeks> = interntion country code
[07:08] <OerHeks> grrr international
[07:10] <EriC^^> lotuspsychje: look into https://letsencrypt.org/ for the cert
[07:10] <lotuspsychje> ok
[07:10] <EriC^^> i want to get a laptop
[07:10] <OerHeks> no no, you don't want a laptop, EriC^^
[07:10] <EriC^^> thinking about the msi pe60-6qe
[07:11] <lotuspsychje> msi have nice ones
[07:11] <EriC^^> hehe
[07:11] <OerHeks> you want a full tower with a lot of cables and plugs
[07:11] <lotuspsychje> lol
[07:11] <EriC^^> mine is dying, hdd is dead, battery dead, etc
[07:11] <lotuspsychje> bbl guys
[07:11] <OerHeks> :-)
[10:01] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[10:53] <lotuspsychje> re
[10:58] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: your package got arrived :p
[11:05] <EriC^^> wb lotuspsychje
[11:05] <lotuspsychje> tnx EriC^^
[11:06] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i had few msi mobo's once and very happy with them
[11:06] <EriC^^> cool
[11:06] <EriC^^> ubuntu friendly? uefi?
[11:07] <lotuspsychje> oh, it was long time ago before uefi :p
[11:07] <lotuspsychje> but i guess the only improved
[11:08] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: whatever you choose put an ssd inside :p
[11:09] <EriC^^> it comes with one, but kind of small 128gb
[11:10] <lotuspsychje> cool
[11:12] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: lol
[11:13] <OerHeks> :-)
[11:13] <OerHeks> i hasitated too, to press spacebar when screen went blanc..
[11:13] <lotuspsychje> sounds too weird in middle of install
[11:14] <OerHeks> no it happens.. i think it is a slow machine
[11:14] <OerHeks> or not to a SSD
[11:16] <ducasse> lotuspsychje: 'snap find' fails on both my 16.04 installs, "error: cannot list snaps: bad query"
[11:17] <lotuspsychje> uh?
[11:18] <ducasse> used to work, but i just discovered it no longer does :)
[11:18] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: works fine here, could it be due to not using unity?
[11:18] <lotuspsychje> your on i3 right?
[11:18] <ducasse> possible.
[11:19] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: you got the /snap folder?
[11:19] <lotuspsychje> and /dev/loop/ snaps?
[11:19] <ducasse> yep, 'snap list' works.
[11:20] <ducasse> got those too.
[11:20] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: or do you snap find 'keyword'?
[11:20] <ducasse> 'snap find'
[11:21] <lotuspsychje> strange
[11:22] <ducasse> i've got 2.11+0.16.04 from -proposed...
[11:22] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: whats the packagename again?
[11:22] <ducasse> snapd
[11:23] <lotuspsychje> lotuspsychje@RooTBooK:~$ apt-cache policy snapd
[11:23] <lotuspsychje> snapd:
[11:23] <lotuspsychje>   Geïnstalleerd: 2.0.10
[11:23] <ducasse> the man page has gotten seriously updated, too
[11:23] <lotuspsychje> from main
[11:23] <OerHeks> oer@oerworkstation:~$ snap find snapd
[11:23] <OerHeks> Name                   Version  Developer  Notes  Summary
[11:23] <OerHeks> snapd-hacker-toolbelt  0.6      zygoon     -      Collection of tools useful for developers hacking on snapd
[11:23] <OerHeks> test-snapd-tools       1.0      canonical  -      Tools for testing the snapd application
[11:23] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: what are you doing on proposed?
[11:23] <OerHeks> oh you are on proposed??
[11:24] <ducasse> lotuspsychje: this is a laptop that is only used for testing etc, so i volunteer for testing new updates
[11:24] <lotuspsychje> ah
[11:25] <ducasse> somebody's got to :)
[11:25] <lotuspsychje> :p
[11:26] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: you might need a !bug then :p
[11:26] <ducasse> snap find works fine with a keyword, but not without. it used to list all available snaps.
[11:26] <lotuspsychje> yep
[11:27] <lotuspsychje> list got huge already wow
[11:27] <ducasse> according to the new man page, keywords should be optional. i think i'll file a bug on this.
[11:29] <OerHeks> hmm --beta Install from the beta channel, nice
[11:29] <ducasse> there are obviously a _lot_ of new things here, according to the man page. or at least they're noe documented :)
[11:29] <ducasse> *now
[11:33] <lotuspsychje> find
[11:33] <lotuspsychje>        Finds packages to install
[11:33] <lotuspsychje>        The find command queries the store for available packages.
[11:34] <lotuspsychje> ah list, is for installed snaps
[11:34] <OerHeks> man snap > snap-help.txt # for easy reading
[11:34] <ducasse> i've also got usage instructions, listing --private and --help
[11:35] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: you can also check ubuntu software perhaps, if it lists snaps also?
[11:35] <ducasse> not installed :p
[11:35] <lotuspsychje> oh silly me
[11:36] <ducasse> i can search just fine, just seems the option to list all available snaps is gone.
[11:36] <lotuspsychje> thats the penalty for you unity haters haha
[11:36] <ducasse> might be intentional.
[11:36] <ducasse> not a unity hater, just a disliker :)
[11:36] <lotuspsychje> just joking mate :p
[11:37] <ducasse> i know :)
[11:37] <lotuspsychje> i wonder what happens if you install a lower snapd version
[11:37] <ducasse> want me to pastebin the new man page? it's quite different.
[11:37] <lotuspsychje> ah sure, lets have a look
[11:37] <ducasse> http://paste.ubuntu.com/22018730/
[11:39] <lotuspsychje> lets c
[11:41] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: snap find also shows...hmm
[11:42] <ducasse> Usage: snap [OPTIONS] find [find-OPTIONS] - [...] means "optional"
[11:43] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[11:44] <ducasse> but there's lots in here i didn't know about to play with! \o/
[11:44] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: both your installs have i3?
[11:44] <ducasse> yup.
[11:45] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: you have other wm's to try?
[11:46] <lotuspsychje> if the snap folders exist, its weird it gives you bad query right
[11:46] <ducasse> no, but i guess i could install one... i don't see how the wm should matter, but i see how something in a de might.
[11:47] <ducasse> i can run snaps and everything else, it seems.
[11:47] <ducasse> maybe that feature is just gone now.
[11:47] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: but manpage still shows it
[11:47] <ducasse> i know, that's why i reacted.
[11:48] <ducasse> i'll file a bug, see what they respond.
[11:48] <lotuspsychje> okay
[12:00] <ducasse> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/snapd/+bug/1609368
[12:09] <EriC^^> there are smart lights, supposed to last 23 years
[12:09] <EriC^^> wireless, you can program them, and use your phone to turn them on off
[12:10] <EriC^^> https://www.gadgitechstore.com/collections/smart-lights/products/wemo-smart-led-bulb
[12:12] <lotuspsychje> nice
[12:40] <ducasse> hasn't sruli been in #ubuntu earlier trying to use macchanger to get around restrictions on a free wifi?
[12:42] <OerHeks> that was a while ago, 2 weeks maybe?
[12:42] <ducasse> did you see his explanation now?
[12:43] <ducasse> "i need to get a particular ip from my dhcp, i connect with different device each time"
[12:43] <OerHeks> it makes no sense at all, multiple devices want to use same ip lease..
[12:43] <ducasse> i don't believe that, not gonna help him.
[12:43] <OerHeks> i give you permission to send him to the kali channel
[12:44] <ducasse> lol
[12:45] <lotuspsychje> :p
[12:47] <ducasse> he went quiet now, probably upset he got caught  :)
[12:47] <OerHeks> nope
[12:47] <ducasse> "i dont remember" - right.
[12:47] <OerHeks> but true, one can feel tension
[12:48] <ducasse> i'm not going to poke the bear anymore, i'll just leave him alone.
[13:35] <ducasse> lotuspsychje: very funny - 'snap find' will no longer list all snaps, the docs just don't reflect this. explanation: "this is never what the user wanted", which it was in my case...
[13:37] <OerHeks> how would one list all available snaps then?
[13:39] <OerHeks> snap find * # gives a selection, snap find . # gives the full list ?
[13:40] <OerHeks> this is on the old one, ofcourse
[13:43] <ducasse> OerHeks: ah, that seems to work. i had some problems with snap+regexps here, so i didn't test that. thanks, OerHeks :)
[13:44] <OerHeks>  the diff between snap find and snap find . seems to be 0
[13:44] <OerHeks> so technically, if this is the valid search for all packages, the manual can be updated too
[13:46] <ducasse> i'll add a note. i'm still a little unclear what the regexp's are matched against, here they seem to return things that may or may not be related, but which does not match the regexp
[14:05] <OerHeks> for proposed ..http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/04/can-now-install-snappy-apps-software-center
[14:08] <ducasse> that should have reached -updates by now, shouldn't it? the post was from late april.
[14:10] <OerHeks> there is no snap section whatsoever in my softwarecenter
[14:15] <ducasse> the article says there is no way to see all snaps in the gui, but you will find (gui) snap apps if you search for them.
[14:58] <horse> Hello.  I really like the Unity desktop, so wanted to set up a VM and remote in to have a play. it seems that this isn't possible.  is it really snesible to have a desktop envirnoment that dosn't support remote desktop/VNC?
[15:00] <daftykins> what's wrong with a VM from the host system you use?
[15:00] <daftykins> then use it directly...
[15:01] <horse> daftykins: it's not really convenient
[15:01] <horse> limited resource
[15:01] <daftykins> then how about booting a live session to try it out? or multiboot? or get a cheap second system?
[15:01] <horse> I could do, however, what about when i want to remote into my cheap second sytem?
[15:02] <horse> yes i could use SSH
[15:02] <daftykins> well that's for CLI.
[15:02] <horse> but i was quite looking forward to playing with the fancy GUI
[15:02] <daftykins> you'll see zero of it via remote technologies.
[15:02] <daftykins> however they do exist, do work and are fine to use on a home network - so i'm not really seeing a problem
[15:02] <horse> it just seems like an odd decision, for the sake of some 3d "rice"
[15:03] <daftykins> what is an odd decision?
[15:04] <daftykins> right now you are saying you want to see these fancy DE features
[15:04] <horse> valuing look and feel above actually being able to use the desktop remotely
[15:04] <daftykins> utilising a graphically accelerated desktop remotely is simply not a sensible use-case
[15:04] <ducasse> it's not just "rice", 3d accel is used for basically everything in compiz
[15:05] <horse> does windows not use 3D accel?
[15:05] <daftykins> horse: so i think you've either not looked very hard for how to try this effectively, or what you're trying to do is simply not a good idea
[15:06] <ducasse> horse: did you try the other approaches i and others suggested?
[15:06] <horse> i'm not sure what you mean by not looking very hard, are you saying this is possible?
[15:07] <daftykins> attempting to see a 3D accelerated desktop like Unity will always be a flawed plan no matter the OS, either Windows with aero (since Vista) or any accelerated Linux DE.
[15:08] <horse> ducasse: i tried a bunch of stuff, i cant really remember if i tried your approach specifically, remind me?
[15:08] <daftykins> the concept is flawed from the outset so it doesn't hugely matter on the method
[15:08] <horse> So how do other OSes handle this?  do they have a 2D mode for RDP?
[15:08] <dax> yes
[15:09] <horse> OK.  Does unity have a 2D mode?
[15:09] <dax> Windows disables graphical shinies when you RDP to it, for example
[15:09] <dax> no
[15:09] <horse> why not?
[15:09] <dax> no idea
[15:10] <daftykins> i run my windows 7 machine, which i access solely over RDP, with the classic theme so as to cut down on remote overhead
[15:10] <horse> OK, well that answers my question at least :)
[15:11] <daftykins> even when you're on a high speed LAN between one host and another, forwarding a graphically accelerated desktop is silly
[15:11] <horse> im on a lan and have no problems with RDP
[15:11] <horse> to windows boxen
[15:12] <horse> they are windows server though so probably not using "3d" mode.  i've never really thought about it until now to be honest.
[15:12] <daftykins> no Windows Server disables desktop compositing.
[15:12] <daftykins> ah, well these are pretty core concepts
[15:12] <horse> i usually SSH into hosts TBH
[15:13] <horse> however, in this use case i needed a GUI, so thought unity might be nice to try...
[15:14] <daftykins> perhaps if you told us the task we can advise something better
[15:15] <daftykins> you're aware of X forwarding also?
[15:15] <daftykins> though you would need some software installed to handle that if it's a Windows host
[15:15] <daftykins> (that you use directly)
[15:58] <ducasse> OerHeks: apparently, 'snap find .' only lists 100 arbitrary snaps. the devs see no need for a way to list all of them.
[15:59] <OerHeks> oke, thank you sofar.
[16:01] <OerHeks> then i will write a script, snap find a* -z* and sort and remove double ones
[16:01] <OerHeks> how to look for --beta,  --edge and --candidate ?
[16:02] <ducasse> they say we should use the rest api if we want a complete list. for --beta etc i don't think it is implemented.
[16:03] <ducasse> so use the rest api, is my guess.
[16:03] <OerHeks> what is rest api?
[16:04] <ducasse> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representational_state_transfer
[16:04]  * daftykins always rests
[16:05] <ducasse> ie - "you code it yourself, we can't be bothered". they claimed they didn't want to support pagination etc in the frontend, which is a bogus excuse imo.
[16:06] <daftykins> i hear this a lot from open source projects "we can't think of using what you want, therefore we won't do it"
[16:08] <OerHeks> maybe they have this policy, to give other linux distros a chance to come up with this bright idea
[16:08] <ducasse> most of the time i get that, but here it's a matter of removing a feature that exists, and deliberately coding around other ways to do it. all they need to do is dump all the data to stdout as they did before.
[16:08] <OerHeks> *that accept snap packages