[01:12] <lynorian>  bug 1307994 does this have any reprocussions on the powerpc release for 14.04.5 but I did not have that with amd 64
[01:12] <tsimonq2> wxl: ^
[01:13] <wxl> i actually don't think it's ppc specific
[01:13] <lynorian> wierd I don't get it with amd 64
[01:14] <lynorian> is it with mbr and having too many primary partitions?
[01:14] <wxl> as i remember there's soemthing rather specific you need to do. something rather odd.
[01:15] <wxl> i need someone to check i386
[01:19] <wxl> G
[01:19] <wxl> stupid caps
[06:42] <lynorian> ok half of i386 done
[15:43] <ac2> Hi, is there any gpg signature or key available to verify the .iso file download on the lubuntu website?
[16:09] <tsimonq2> ac2: which website?
[16:09] <tsimonq2> ac2: (we have one official but another one is commonly confused as the real one)
[16:20] <ac2> lubunutu.net
[16:22] <tsimonq2> ac2: that's not our website
[16:22] <ac2> tsimonq2: do I have that correctly?
[16:22] <tsimonq2> ac2: our website is lubuntu.me
[16:22] <tsimonq2> ac2: that *used* to be our website, but it moved
[16:23] <ac2> tsimonq2: the .net looks like a clone
[16:23] <tsimonq2> yes, it is now, but just use .me in the future :)
[16:24] <ac2> right I guess I still can seem to find any pgp signature file to verify the .iso file
[16:25] <tsimonq2> ac2: can you get me the link of the file you downloaded?
[16:25] <tsimonq2> (where you downloaded it from)
[16:27] <ac2> tsimonq2: downloaded it from lubuntu.me/downloads  - the 64-bit desktop version
[16:41] <tsimonq2> ac2: ok, I mean, what's the *exact* ?
[16:45] <ac2> tsimonq2: oh okay
[16:46] <ac2> tsimonq2: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/14.04.4/release/lubuntu-14.04.4-desktop-amd64.iso
[16:47] <tsimonq2> ac2: we're actually releasing 14.04.5 today, so I would recommend waiting ;)
[16:47] <tsimonq2> ac2: or use 16.04.1 :)
[16:49] <tsimonq2> ac2: but if you REALLY want to verify the image, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VerifyIsoHowto
[16:53] <tsimonq2> wxl: hey, ping
[16:53] <ac2> tsimonq2: haha very nice
[16:54] <ac2> just out of curisoity, what's the significant difference between 14.04 and 16.04?
[16:54] <tsimonq2> ac2: systemd :P
[16:54] <tsimonq2> either way, one was released in 2014 and the other in 2016
[17:03] <tsimonq2> wxl: dude, I need to talk to you, I see you in #lubuntu-offtopic :P
[17:04] <ac2> tsimonq2: what system do you stick with?
[17:04] <tsimonq2> wxl: what's the deal with PPC and do we plan on releasing it?
[17:04] <tsimonq2> ac2: I'm running the development release that will become 16.10
[17:07] <tsimonq2> wxl: (for 14.04.5)
[17:07] <tsimonq2> ac2: I recommend 16.04.1 either way
[17:07] <ac2> tsimonq2: right on, I appreciate the help. One last thing
[17:08] <ac2> tsimonq2: who's signature is used to sign the .iso files
[17:09] <tsimonq2> ac2: I don't think it's PGP, I could be wrong though
[17:09] <tsimonq2> ac2: I think it's just a regular hash
[17:09] <tsimonq2> ac2: I'm not an expert on this ;)
[17:15] <ac2> tsimonq2: not to worry, thansk again
[17:23] <wxl> tsimonq2: yes. that resize thing is not a showstopper in my mind, as long as we have it in the release notes
[17:24] <ac2> tsimonq2: hey sorry to jump back on here
[17:24] <tsimonq2> ac2: it's fine :)
[17:25] <ac2> tsimonq2: but are the same keys used to sign both ubuntu and lubuntu iso files?
[17:25] <tsimonq2> wxl: alright, just waiting for global
[17:25] <tsimonq2> ac2: it's totally fine that you are here, you'll just probably get more people to answer if you go to #lubuntu ;)
[17:29] <wxl> marked as ready fwiw
[17:31] <tsimonq2> \o/
[17:31] <tsimonq2> wxl: can't wait for stgraber to approve that PR :P
[17:31] <wxl> yuup
[17:35] <ac2> tsimonq2: I sent a similar question towards #lubuntu's way but not seemed to want to take a stabbed at it
[17:38] <tsimonq2> wxl: also, I have something that I want to show you
[17:38] <tsimonq2> wxl: see https://github.com/ahoneybun/kubuntu-manual/ ?
[17:38] <wxl> yup
[17:39] <tsimonq2> wxl: wouldn't it be awesome if we had one for Lubuntu?
[17:39] <wxl> yup
[17:39] <tsimonq2> wxl: https://github.com/tsimonq2/lubuntu-manual
[17:39] <wxl> you want to be wiki/docs team leader?
[17:40] <tsimonq2> wxl: temporarily I think that would be a good solution, because if we have this manual and people commit to it, we might have someone who can step up
[17:40] <tsimonq2> wxl: but I'm willing to put the work into this :)
[17:41] <wxl> my only problem with that is that there's no "vision" and there's no person to manage all the random drive by contributions to ensure they keep to that vision
[17:41] <wxl> we need someone to make it their baby
[17:41] <wxl> otherwise it ends up being as chaotic as the wiki
[17:41] <wxl> it needs to be systematic, like we need to have x and y and z and then we call out for contributions to those items
[17:42] <tsimonq2> my stance is that I would love to step up, it should just be until we have someone else that is willing to step up
[17:42] <tsimonq2> so I'm willing to put a lot of work into it
[17:42] <wxl> it's hard to do multiple jobs at once really
[17:42] <wxl> i know you have the energy for it
[17:42] <wxl> but what about time, especially with school looming on the horizon?
[17:43] <tsimonq2> well it shouldn't be high-maintenance with the little changes that happens to Lubuntu packages :P
[17:43] <wxl> it's all the work to get everything documented
[17:43] <wxl> i mean, really our documentation is terrible
[17:44] <tsimonq2> well I think there just needs to be an initial push
[17:44] <wxl> it's wide in scope and detail but misses a lot of fundamentals
[17:44] <tsimonq2> once we have that push and something to work with, it's just a matter of updating it every six months
[17:44] <wxl> yeah i think the biggest challenge will be the former issue
[17:44] <tsimonq2> I'm willing to do most of that work
[17:45] <wxl> and i don't think that will be a thing that happens in days, but in weeks, maybe months
[17:45] <tsimonq2> I'm willing to say weeks
[17:45] <wxl> can you write me out a *detailed* proposal of what you plan to do?
[17:45] <wxl> i'd like to see a table of contents included in that
[17:46] <wxl> make a whole outline for the whole thing if you want to really wow me
[17:46] <tsimonq2> sure, give me an hour or two
[17:46] <ac2> if I had more technical knowledge I would love to help you guys out
[17:46] <wxl> ac2: we're just talking about documentation, so i doubt it needs much
[17:46] <ac2> how big is the development group for lubuntu
[17:46] <tsimonq2> small
[17:46] <tsimonq2> very small
[17:47] <wxl> tsimonq2: we also need like "for dummies" level instructions on how to contribute
[17:47] <tsimonq2> ac2: we have me and wxl, then two more people with positions (Rafael on artwork and Julien on coding), then two more people that help us test regularly
[17:47] <tsimonq2> wxl: yeah, good idea
[17:47] <wxl> we have lots of little community contributions, but those are the consistent ones
[17:47] <ac2> what kind of testing is involved?
[17:48] <tsimonq2> ac2: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Testing
[17:48] <wxl> ac2: basically using a virtual machine, following some steps, and reporting it as pass or fail. pretty simple stuff.
[17:48] <ac2> hah that exactly what I'm trying to do
[17:49] <tsimonq2> ac2: iso.qa.ubuntu.com will help ;)
[17:49] <wxl> the hardest part is simply following the formal process
[17:49] <wxl> but that's also the easy part XD
[17:49] <tsimonq2> wxl: so a detailed proposal for the Lubuntu Manual or for docs in general?
[17:49] <wxl> tsimonq2: for now, the manual
[17:49] <tsimonq2> processes etc.
[17:49] <tsimonq2> alright
[17:50] <wxl> tsimonq2: i think if you achieve a modicum of success, mybe we'll make you team leader, with the intention that you would create a larger proposal for docs to in turn hand off to a new leader
[17:51] <tsimonq2> wxl: good idea
[17:53] <wxl> ac2: you're welcome to join the team. there are no requirements. your help would be most appreciated.
[18:06] <ac2> wxl: ya really want to test out the DE, using virtualbox
[18:08] <ac2> wxl: although still scratching my head on this gpg sig verification, getting "BAD signature" readouts
[18:09] <wxl> ac2: gpg can be difficult. it's sensitive to non-printing characters.
[18:09] <tsimonq2> wxl: he's looking to verify the ISO
[18:09] <wxl> tsimonq2: well it SOUNDS like he wants to verify the hashes
[18:10] <wxl> ac2: did you get the keys specified when you tried to verify the gpg against the hashes from the keyserver?
[18:11] <wxl> ac2: maybe repeating your steps might be helpful
[18:14] <tsimonq2> wxl: add me to https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-wiki-docs please?
[18:14] <wxl> doner
[18:15] <teward> wxl: it seems to me like he's trying to do what Debian does and have GPG-signatures they can verify the ISOs against
[18:15] <tsimonq2> thanks wxl
[18:15] <teward> rather than 'verify the hashes'
[18:15] <teward> unless the hashes are GPG Signed
[18:15] <wxl> they are
[18:15] <wxl> if you look at the instructions..
[18:15] <teward> wxl: E:LimitedInternetAccessDueToDNSBreakage
[18:15] <teward> but i believe you're right
[18:16] <ac2> wxl: I grabbed the SHA256SUMS.gpg key from ubuntu 16.04 which outputed  0xFBB75451 0xEFE21092
[18:16] <teward> i just can't find the sigs on the server
[18:16] <wxl> teward: E:GetYourCrapFixedDudeAndQuitComplainingSheesh
[18:16] <teward> wxl: E:StopYellingItsMyISPsFault
[18:16] <tsimonq2> XD
[18:16] <wxl> teward: E:YeahRightAndWhyTheHellAreWeTalkingLikeThisANyways
[18:16] <teward> wxl: Kernel Panic: process `wxl` tried to kill SystemD, dying... *hard freeze*
[18:16] <tsimonq2> XD
[18:16] <wxl> i'm going to hard freeze you.
[18:17] <teward> ANYWAYS
[18:17] <tsimonq2> hahahahahaa
[18:17] <wxl> ac2: did you verify the signatures?
[18:17] <ac2> wxl: which i downloaded from ubuntu's keyserver but when verified agianst the iso, i get "bad signature"
[18:18] <wxl> ac2: did you check those keys and that they are ubuntu's though?
[18:18] <wxl> gpg --list-keys --with-fingerprint 0xFBB75451 0xEFE21092
[18:20] <wxl> ac2: and how are you trying to chgeck the iso?
[18:21] <ac2> wxl: the fingerprints match from the ubuntu website
[18:21] <wxl> basically the process is this:
[18:21] <wxl> 1. get the iso, SUMS, SUMS.gpg
[18:21] <wxl> 2. verify SUMS with SUMS.gpg
[18:21] <wxl> 3. if missing keys, get keys
[18:21] <wxl> 4. check fingerprints of keys
[18:22] <wxl> 5. verify SUMS with SUMS.gpg
[18:22] <wxl> 6. check SUMS against iso
[18:22] <wxl> if you already have a degree of trust with ubuntu, the only necessary part of that is #6.
[18:23] <wxl> #1-5 is necessary to prove that the SUMS were generated by who they say they are, i.e. ubuntu
[18:23] <wxl> if i was a malicious entity, perhaps i could modify the SUMS with values of my own liking that are consistent with malicious files that i put on the server and made appear like the isos
[18:24] <wxl> however, i would not be able to gpg encode those SUMS with someone else's private key
[18:26] <ac2> wxl: ahah right, alright give me moment to double check my steps here
[18:27] <wxl> so one of two things would happen in this case. either i would gpg encode with my own key and put my key in place. this would cause no signature failure, and it might show the right text (Ubuntu CD Image Automatic Signing Key) etc. but the fingerprint would be wrong. or the hope would be that no one would verify the SUMS with the gpg key, in which case, there'd be a bad signature
[18:27] <wxl> one thing that may cause problems is if you copy and paste the SUMS or SUMS.gpg from the web. better to just download
[18:28] <wxl> </gpg lesson>
[18:33] <ac2> wxl: its step six that isn't working, and it could be that the sums I have are for just ubuntu 16.04 and not lubuntu cause I don't receive any "ok" on the iso
[18:34] <wxl> pastebin me the sums you're using
[18:38] <ac2> wxl: http://pastebin.com/yW3myMhd
[18:39] <ac2> wait pasted the wrong on
[18:45] <ac2> wxl: sorry had to generate a new one http://pastebin.com/pBpcSByz
[18:46] <wxl> ac2: none of those are applicable to any lubuntu images. if you can't grep the file and find lubuntu in there, it won't work. neither will this work for xubuntu, kubuntu, netboot, etc.
[18:47] <ac2> thats what I figured
[18:48] <ac2> wxl: where do you get the appropriate files for lubuntu
[18:48] <wxl> ac2: did you download from lubuntu.me?
[18:49] <ac2> yes
[18:49] <ac2> wait i think i found it
[18:49] <ac2> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/16.04/release/
[18:49] <wxl> if you grab one of the links you can back up one level
[18:49] <wxl> yep
[18:49] <wxl> you figured it out
[18:50] <wxl> tsimonq2: think we should add a link to sums?
[18:50] <ac2> haha yes indeed
[18:50] <tsimonq2> wxl: yeah
[18:51] <ac2> hahaha yes please
[18:53] <wxl> tsimonq2: you want to do that? :)
[18:56] <tsimonq2> wxl: WE DID IT
[18:56] <tsimonq2> wxl: STGRABER MERGED
[18:56] <tsimonq2> :D
[18:56] <ac2> what do you guys recommend as min requirements for virtualbox?
[18:56] <wxl> yay!
[18:56] <wxl> ac2: whatever vbox recommends.
[18:57] <wxl> you need to have enough memory for everything you have running on your machine plus whatever memory you're going to allocate to your vm
[18:57] <wxl> lubuntu's min requirements can be as low as 256
[18:57] <wxl> that being said, you could have 512 and be fine
[19:01] <ac2> verry nice, looking forward to making it apart of my workflow
[19:03] <wxl> tsimonq2: um, are you going to take care of those SUMS links?
[19:03] <tsimonq2> aorry
[19:03] <tsimonq2> *sorry
[19:03] <tsimonq2> doing now
[19:03] <tsimonq2> which page?
[19:03] <tsimonq2> and what am I linking?
[19:04] <wxl> maybe to the main directory
[19:04] <tsimonq2> argh you know what needs to be done better than I do, can you do it please?
[19:04] <wxl> with a link of instructions on how to verify
[19:04] <wxl> oh fine
[19:04] <wxl> make me log in
[19:04]  * wxl grumbles
[19:09] <lynorian> I was working on one on launchpad but it was all by myself and someone was like we will be switching to lxqt soon this is a waste of time
[19:10] <tsimonq2> lynorian: whatever, I'm doing it anyways :P
[19:10] <tsimonq2> don't forget LTS releases!
[20:08] <lynorian> tsimonq2, have any plans for what to write for the lubuntu manual
[20:12] <tsimonq2> lynorian: soon
[20:13] <tsimonq2> lynorian: it would also help to do it under Sphinx, here's something basic I have: https://github.com/ahoneybun/kubuntu-manual/
[20:15] <lynorian> yeah I agree
[20:16] <tsimonq2> wait that's not mine :)
[20:16] <tsimonq2> lynorian: https://github.com/tsimonq2/lubuntu-manual
[20:31] <lynorian> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgSxGaSy-8s this is a talk from a year ago from that person
[20:32] <tsimonq2> I know Aaron :)
[20:42]  * lynorian thinks about writing something similar to software.rst 
[21:56] <tsimonq2> wow this spec is taking a long time
[21:57] <tsimonq2> but I think this is the hardest part
[21:57] <wxl> told you
[21:57] <wxl> it's not simple
[21:57] <tsimonq2> wxl: it only gets better from here
[21:57] <tsimonq2> like I said, this is the hardest part
[21:57] <tsimonq2> the rest is easy and fun ;)
[21:58] <tsimonq2> wxl: and be quiet :P
[21:58] <tsimonq2> I'm up to 3 pages already!
[23:30] <tsimonq2> wxl: GLOBAL IS OUT
[23:30] <tsimonq2> wxl: permission to release?
[23:34] <wxl> tsimonq2: gogogo
[23:35] <tsimonq2> gogogogogogogogogogooooooooooooooo