[00:11] <Gallomimia> hey do you guys know if there's any way to increase the number of pixels that the window resizing handle is? i have a hard to time getting it
[00:36] <TheMariuz> gordonjcp, you know more than me obiosly... but for "experts" theres allways jack .... im talking about a more simple system for the average linux novice that just want his mic to work for karaoke hour and play music
[00:37] <TheMariuz> it was just an idea for improvement if theres a coder here thats thinking about a new project
[00:37] <TheMariuz> maybe its a bad idea.. idk
[00:38] <TheMariuz> however ive allways had bad luck with pulseaudio
[00:38] <TheMariuz> and microphones especially
[00:42] <Gallomimia> TheMariuz: pulse audio can do stuff like that. it's a matter of having easy-to-use tools to set it all up.
[00:44] <Gallomimia> and yeah. PA is ridiculously hard to work with. most gui tools don't have full feature sets, and the pacl command line tool is.... really complex.
[00:44] <TheMariuz> i got lost in the settings trying to make the mic make sound again after i lost it
[00:44] <TheMariuz> so i eventually gave up
[00:45] <TheMariuz> tried resetting everything i tried to make it sound.. both pulseaudio and alsamixer
[00:45] <TheMariuz> but didnt fix it.. have no clue what went wrong
[00:46] <TheMariuz> one day mic sounds (fairly) ok ... next no sound at all
[00:46] <TheMariuz> maybe my old soundcard isnt properly supported.. idk
[00:46] <TheMariuz> but i recall having this problem on a laptop earlier too
[00:47] <TheMariuz> yea i were playing with that stuff... i didnt know what i did.. just tested various settings and reset it, with no luck
[00:48] <Gallomimia> no, i think it's just the complexity of pulse
[00:48] <Gallomimia> i've had similar experiences
[00:51] <TheMariuz> it feels fragile though.. like it breaks... mic just dies on me
[00:51] <TheMariuz> also.. noise.. things just work better in win
[00:52] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> Hello
[00:54] <TheMariuz> i just imagine linux could do better than have pulseaudio the way it is now
[00:54] <TheMariuz> however im too dumb and lazy to learn to code well enough to do that stuff
[00:55] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> Is anyone here with any experience with window snapping issues in Ubuntu 16.04 mate 1.12.1
[00:57] <TheMariuz> i can do print "hello"
[00:57] <TheMariuz> in python.. thats basically it
[00:58] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> you liking windows better than linux
[00:59] <TheMariuz> no
[00:59] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> oh, ok
[00:59] <TheMariuz> i like linux better than windows but linux isnt perfect
[00:59] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> much experience with linux
[00:59] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> nothing is
[01:00] <TheMariuz> some .. but im no gold medalist in terminal olympics
[01:00] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> well......Kate Beckinsale is real close
[01:00] <TheMariuz> who?
[01:00] <TheMariuz> i prefer doing things graphically
[01:00] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> lets see, best know in the new Total Recall,  played his wife
[01:01] <TheMariuz> simple OS that just works and looks pretty
[01:01] <TheMariuz> seen total recall but i dont remember her
[01:01] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> well I have only been using it a few months but like the dd command
[01:02] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> omg, great scene when she climbs around on bed.... no nude scenes by her ever but......
[01:02] <TheMariuz> i sort of like KDE but KDE's been unstable for a while so i went MATE
[01:02] <TheMariuz> MATE is simple, wouldnt hurt with a facelift on the taskbar, but other than that, its a nice system
[01:02] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> I seem to have lost window snapping, turned off compiz and then back on
[01:02] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> but still no
[01:02] <TheMariuz> simple, fast and stable
[01:02] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> you ever use the dd command
[01:03] <TheMariuz> and thats what matters.. MATE and XFCE is probably the best choice for a desktop
[01:03] <TheMariuz> from my experience
[01:03] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> and you do not have a big brother in a position to copy your entire system and do whatever with it
[01:03] <TheMariuz> KDE -> crashes... gnome .. havent tried it, but ive seen it, and things take a click or more extra to do compared to MATE
[01:03] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> you know about that in windows 10 don't you
[01:04] <TheMariuz> though gnome sure is eyecandy ill sacrifice eyecandy for functionality and stability any day
[01:04] <TheMariuz> nah
[01:04] <TheMariuz> never did the dd thing
[01:04] <TheMariuz> its me thats the nerd on this farm
[01:04] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> I was loving Point Linux 2.3.2 based on debian also but hard to find apps to run
[01:05] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> how long user of linux
[01:05] <TheMariuz> actually ... i installed linux mint on my old laptop that still is running it.. it ran (allmost) flawless... HP 6710b or something in that line
[01:05] <TheMariuz> it must be 12 years old?
[01:06] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> Where are you located
[01:06] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> abouts
[01:06] <TheMariuz> then 8 years ago i bought a desktop ... AMD 955 x4 3.2 ghz.... ATI radeon 5870, 8 gb ram
[01:06] <TheMariuz> but thats when i made a move over to windows
[01:06] <TheMariuz> cause linux were allergic to the hardware
[01:06] <TheMariuz> ATI cards...
[01:06] <TheMariuz> so i used windows for years
[01:06] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> ah so that was what XP
[01:06] <TheMariuz> until i came back..
[01:07] <TheMariuz> think that was it
[01:07] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> I loved 98SE and then XP
[01:07] <TheMariuz> never ran vista
[01:07] <TheMariuz> but i did run win 7
[01:07] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> I went to 7 also
[01:07] <TheMariuz> no it was way after win 98.. not even the laptop 12 years ago ran that
[01:07] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> I made my own slipstreamed windows 98
[01:07] <TheMariuz> it was XP or linux back then... i think it was one of the first linux mint releases
[01:07] <TheMariuz> i loved linux mint... ran rock solid on it
[01:08] <TheMariuz> i think actually second linux mint release
[01:08] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> where you take your own win98 cd and the current service packs and make a new cd with all the new service packs in it
[01:08] <TheMariuz> me and computer go back to commodore 64
[01:08] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> that way if you reinstall it is current
[01:08] <TheMariuz> and 386
[01:08] <TheMariuz> and amiga 1200
[01:09] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> I go back to coco2 and 8088
[01:09] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> I am 52
[01:09] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> ?
[01:09] <TheMariuz> 38
[01:09] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> have you heard
[01:09] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> someone has made a site with thousands of amiga games on it playable in a browser
[01:10] <TheMariuz> im not much of a gamer though
[01:10] <TheMariuz> theres 1 game i play.. i have a ps4 with battlefield 4
[01:10] <TheMariuz> and thats it
[01:10] <TheMariuz> im only able to play that game
[01:10] <TheMariuz> i get bored of everything else
[01:11] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> heck back in the day I wrote a basic version of mastermind using a 3rd party mouse driver. compiled to EXE and ran it for decades now, never did find any issues
[01:11] <TheMariuz> i do work on the computer, and surfing, chatting, netflix and spotify, and thats pretty much it
[01:11] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> ever check out a raspberry pi
[01:11] <TheMariuz> are you a coder?
[01:11] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> not really
[01:11] <TheMariuz> ok
[01:11] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> just liked quickbasic 4.5
[01:12] <TheMariuz> im just doing simple system maintenance, website updates, some simple graphics works like posters etc, for my dads firms
[01:12] <TheMariuz> so i use gimp, inkscape and stuff like that
[01:12] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> and the game, I had the physical game and liked to play but most people would mess up playing as far as the logic went and the responses in the game
[01:13] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> I was gonna say, are you real good in gimp
[01:13] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> like cutting people out of backgrounds when they have hair up in the air and stuff like that
[01:13] <TheMariuz> i was good in photoshop, not to brag but some of the graphics i used to make i couldnt do in gimp.. but if i take my time i can create descent stuff
[01:13] <TheMariuz> inkscape (vector) is harder
[01:14] <TheMariuz> its different workflow plus i forgot alot of the stuff i used to know.. so gimp is a bit trickier
[01:14] <TheMariuz> but you can do great things there too
[01:15] <TheMariuz> just a matter of figuring out how... cause creating graphics is all about tricks and combining them into something good looking
[01:15] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> I watch a live show weekly, that show tips in gimp and all kinds of other linux and other tech stuff
[01:15] <TheMariuz> gimp is capable but you cant really put it up against photoshop... its different
[01:16] <rahtgaz> exit
[01:16] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> this episode http://www.category5.tv/episodes/457.php  shows how to do layer masking, the site and show are great. they have been having some service issues but it is getting resolved
[01:16] <TheMariuz> photoshop have high payed coders working full time on it, and you are also (supposed) to pay alot for it.. plus the plugins
[01:16] <rahtgaz> exit
[01:16] <TheMariuz> gimp are a small bunch working part time on it
[01:16] <TheMariuz> what, rahtgaz ?
[01:16] <rahtgaz> sorry, guys. A macro forcing me to type here. nevermind me
[01:16] <TheMariuz> off topic?
[01:17] <TheMariuz> ok
[01:17] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> from what the ones on there say and some on there use photoshop all the time professionally they say that you can do just about anything in gimp that you do in photoshop
[01:17] <rahtgaz> it's fixed
[01:17] <TheMariuz> Dooley_da_Vulcan, yea .. allmost.. its just harder
[01:17] <TheMariuz> you make ALOT of shortcuts with a good set of $1000 plugins
[01:17] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> try http://www.category5.tv/
[01:18] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> then go to The Show and Episode Matrix number 457 shows how to do the cutting stuff out
[01:18] <TheMariuz> plastic wrap was one of my favourite plugins in photoshop.. i could make letters look like they had spider web on them and were frozen in ice and was carved out of stone in 3d ... havent been able to replicate that in gimp
[01:19] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> hmm
[01:19] <TheMariuz> i made some pretty insane graphics in photoshop.. however i dont do that anymore now
[01:19] <TheMariuz> i have no use for it
[01:19] <TheMariuz> therefore... gimp suits my needs
[01:21] <TheMariuz> its mostly 3d and photofixing ... or make it look like some product is standing in alot of smoke
[01:22] <TheMariuz> it has layers, shadows, good color palette etc, all you need is a descent set of brushes
[01:22] <TheMariuz> and its all free and 100% legal
[01:22] <TheMariuz> 3d ... i meant 2d
[01:22] <TheMariuz> flat graphics
[01:23] <TheMariuz> a square here and a dot there basically
[01:23] <TheMariuz> and some text over it
[01:24] <TheMariuz> <-- is in the middle of "mr robot"
[01:26] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> Hey
[01:26] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> I believe i found a addon script to give your plastic wrap effect in gimp
[01:26] <TheMariuz> i know it
[01:26] <TheMariuz> its not the same
[01:26] <TheMariuz> but thanks
[01:27] <TheMariuz> ive tried 2 .. its not the same at all.. it looks and works different from the one i used to have in photoshop
[01:30] <TheMariuz> the one in photoshop could do stuff like this: http://opticalenquiry.com/photoshop/images/8/87/Filters_wrap.png ... and even similar to this: http://img08.deviantart.net/cf8b/i/2015/111/9/f/plastic_wrap_by_p0ks-d6b15k1.jpg ... all you'd need is a layer and then wrap it... the ones in gimp cant do that
[01:31] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> wow, wet me see what this one does
[01:31] <TheMariuz> right shadow-effects, inner glow, bevel etc... and you get some outstanding graphics done in 5-10 min
[01:38] <TheMariuz> but you need the right plugins that do the correct math to get results like that.. the gimp one is "fine" but it doesnt produce results close to the one for photoshop at all
[01:38] <TheMariuz> but the, the makers of photoshop gets payed and do this full time, so id be surpriced if gimp managed to beat that.. its a nice piece of software though for what it is
[01:39] <TheMariuz> its only 60 mb or something... photoshop last i installed it was 1.5 gb
[01:40] <TheMariuz> thats alot of code
[01:41] <TheMariuz> and i dont need more, my morals makes me avoid piracy and photoshop cost a fortune
[01:41] <TheMariuz> and in addition they want $ for plugins
[01:41] <TheMariuz> you end up paying thousands for it
[01:41] <TheMariuz> and who knows.. i wouldnt be surpriced if they watermark your photos
[01:42] <TheMariuz> so if you strike gold with an image and adobe has a closer look at it who knows what can happen
[01:42] <TheMariuz> i dont know but id be surpriced if they dont
[01:44] <TheMariuz> printers spit out tiny serialnumbers so if you print a letter with death threats and go to the police with it, they'll catch you, unless you bought it cash
[01:45] <TheMariuz> which is another reason to go with legal open source stuff
[01:48] <TheMariuz> atleast for work / profit oriented stuff
[01:48] <TheMariuz> <-- think its time to take a nap and puts on some rain-sounds ... zzZZzz
[02:11] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> Hey TheMariuz guess what I found
[02:12] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> an addon that adds a load of filters and effects to the newest gimp that seem to work fine
[02:24] <Dooley_da_Vulcan> I am going to go hope that works for you or at least gives you some new tools to use
[06:35] <alkisg> flexiondotorg: Hello! Could you have a look at a seeds issue when you have some free time? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/im-config/+bug/1605571
[06:36] <alkisg> I.e. either --no-install-recommends should be removed from there, or more fcitx* packages should be added, at least fcitx-data fcitx-module-x11
[06:36] <alkisg> It's the last issue that prevents us from typing Greek in the live session, e.g. to enter the user name in ubiquity
[06:38] <gordonjcp> TheMariuz: pulse works pretty well for that
[08:13] <mca1-1> hi
[10:51] <nico995> hello
[11:00] <astrid_> hello folks :-)
[12:32] <bumblefuzz> so, every time I try to place a window at the top of the screen, it attempts to go fullscreen...how do I keep it from doing this?
[12:55] <bumblefuzz> anyone? anyone?
[12:56] <Akuli> what? what?
[12:56] <bumblefuzz> "so, every time I try to place a window at the top of the screen, it attempts to go fullscreen...how do I keep it from doing this?"
[12:57] <Akuli> are you using compiz?
[12:57] <bumblefuzz> I... don't know
[12:57] <Akuli> then you are not
[12:57] <Akuli> what you're having trouble with is window snapping
[12:57] <Akuli> google "ubuntu mate disable window snapping"
[12:57] <Akuli> i'm currently not using mate so thats all i know :(
[12:59] <bumblefuzz> yep, I found it
[13:02]  * DarkPsydeLord just landed.
[13:28] <angius> hello. I've installed a fresh ubuntu mate 16.0.4.1 on an Acer Aspire with corei5 4GB ram and geforce gt320M.
[13:30] <angius> So i would expect a fluid run of the OS but seems to freeze time by time. I don't find erors in syslog and top doesn't show excessive usage of ram of cpu. What should I look for to improve the performances? Are there known issues to look into? Tks!!
[13:38] <ouroumov> angius, when you say freeze do you mean you have to reboot?
[13:44] <angius> no, but the open sessions seems 'stuck' and I have to wait , lets say, for about 30 seconds to become responsive again
[13:44] <angius> Also a simple terminal
[13:44] <Akuli> sounds like running out of ram
[13:44] <Akuli> but can't be with 4GB
[13:45] <Akuli> check your graphics driver, there should be a driver tab in a thingy called software and updates
[13:45] <Akuli> i think you can run that from the terminal with software-properties-gtk or something
[14:19] <angius> yes, I'm using the default drivers (driver 4 display Nouveau from xserver-xorg-video-nouveau) but I've the choice to use NVIDIA binary driver,from nvida 340. maybe I csan try with them
[16:01] <scripht> Hi! I'm relatively new to Ubuntu MATE and Linux in general (dualbooted my MacBook Pro yesterday!). One question: It seems I've downloaded both "Dropbox" and "Caja Dropbox". To me there doesn't seem to be any difference. As soon as one of them is launched, there is no effect when i try to launch the other. Is there a difference? And do I need both?
[16:41] <tadcan> since the last libreoffice update the UI has changed to be grey and smaller icons/fonts. Is that on purpose?
[16:42] <alkisg> tadcan: which libreoffice version do you have? dpkg -l libreoffice-writer
[16:43] <tadcan> ii  libreoffice-wr 1:5.2.0~rc4- amd64        office productivity suite -- word
[16:43] <alkisg> It's not the one provided by ubuntu
[16:43] <alkisg> Where does it come from? apt policy libreoffice-writer
[16:45] <tadcan>  Version table:
[16:45] <tadcan>  *** 1:5.2.0~rc4-0ubuntu1~xenial2 500
[16:45] <tadcan>         500 http://ppa.launchpad.net/libreoffice/ppa/ubuntu xenial/main amd64 Packages
[16:45] <alkisg> You're using a ppa, which means software not supported by ubuntu
[16:46] <alkisg> You can ask the ppa authors about any issues you may find with that
[16:46] <tadcan> ah ok, must have install it and forgot
[16:46] <tadcan> thanks
[16:46] <alkisg> np
[17:12] <scripht> anyone?
[17:13] <ouroumov> Sure
[17:51] <DarkPsydeLord> are we getting wayland soon?
[17:54] <alkisg> Sure! In 10 years!
[17:54] <DarkPsydeLord> nice XD!
[17:55] <DarkPsydeLord> i have wayland in my arch machines
[17:55] <alkisg> Do you see any user-visible benefits?
[17:56] <Akuli> ew
[17:56] <Akuli> arch
[17:57] <DarkPsydeLord> well
[17:58] <DarkPsydeLord> maybe not user noticeable
[17:58] <DarkPsydeLord> but once you start messing around
[17:58] <DarkPsydeLord> everything seems to be logical enough
[17:58] <DarkPsydeLord> im trying to get my hands on mir
[17:59] <rahtgaz> you'll have to wash afterwards
[17:59] <Akuli> i tried arch once, and i dissappointed a lot]
[17:59] <alkisg> What does "logical" mean in this context? It's no a desktop environment, so that you could describe its layout etc...
[17:59] <Akuli> awful shell with broken autocompletion, systemd, too many mirrors in the mirror list...
[18:00] <Akuli> and bad installation instructions
[18:00] <DarkPsydeLord> i find the wiki very easy to follow and helpful
[18:01] <DarkPsydeLord> but find most of the users pedantic including me
[18:01] <rahtgaz> Akuli, seriously? Can't recognize any of those issues. I do have one annoyance with Arch, but nothing even remotely close to what you describe
[18:01] <Akuli> yes, but the install.txt their isos come with just says "go look on our wiki lel"
[18:01] <Akuli> rahtgaz, what do you mean?
[18:01] <alkisg> Akuli, what is your main distro+de currently?
[18:01] <Akuli> right now windows xp because i dont have a cd
[18:02] <Akuli> but my laptop runs devuan with mate, and my desktop runs ubuntu mate 14.04
[18:02] <DarkPsydeLord> alkisg: and yes i realize its nothing you can measure visualy and its far from simple to xplain
[18:02] <alkisg> A CD to install some distro? There are other ways, usb sticks, netboot...
[18:02] <DarkPsydeLord> netboot ftw
[18:02] <Akuli> alkisg, try to boot a 12 yarl old computer from usb
[18:03] <rahtgaz> I do agree that it's an hands-on distro. But that's the point of it really. You build your own machine with it, precisely as you want it. But broken shell, systemd, mirrors? Heck, I can't see a problem there
[18:03] <Akuli> rahtgaz, to me, it was like we have all this junk you need to fix :(
[18:03] <alkisg> Akuli: it's possible with plop bt, but netboot is much easier on old pcs, just a win32loader away
[18:03] <Akuli> rahtgaz, broken shell?
[18:03] <Akuli> i mean
[18:03] <Akuli> it was zsh
[18:04] <Akuli> i type mkfs. and hit tab twice to see a list of what filesystems i can make, then it asks me what do i want
[18:04] <Akuli> i say i just want to type it out myself by hitting Ctrl+C... and it takes the autocompletion list away :(
[18:04] <Akuli> bash never does that
[18:04] <rahtgaz> Akuli: yeah. But that's the fault of the linux ecosystem really. Every program leaves in its own universe with its own rules pf physics and whatnot. Which makes bare installation and customization a difficult task.
[18:05] <Akuli> it also came with /bin/sh and /bin/bash... so why a third shell and why make it the default?
[18:05] <rahtgaz> we don't see it on Ubuntu and derivatives because someone did it for us
[18:05] <Akuli> thats not minimal to me
[18:05] <alkisg> That's where systemd will help, one universe to rule them all :P :D
[18:05] <DarkPsydeLord> i find the ports folder in freebsd amusing
[18:05] <DarkPsydeLord> and i can hail pacman
[18:05] <Akuli> devuan from a netinst is nice
[18:05] <DarkPsydeLord> well not exactly but i think is the one i hate the less
[18:05] <Akuli> its really minimal, no extra shells or anything
[18:06] <rahtgaz> if it came with bash, sh and zsh you asked it to install a shells package during initial installation. Otherwise you will only see bash
[18:06] <Akuli> rahtgaz, it came with the three, and it logged me into zsh
[18:06] <Akuli> the installation iso
[18:07] <Akuli> before i could even start installing, i needed to use zsh
[18:07] <rahtgaz> zsh is the default installation shell, but it won't install it if you don't tell it to. Much less make it a login shell... but to be honest my arch box is 4 years old and I haven't made an installation since. Maybe their iso has changed
[18:08] <Akuli> i think thats still like that
[18:08] <Akuli> i also had trouble with installing the boot loader. there's no update-grub, and after trying everything in the arch wiki i finally managed to fix my grub using debian wiki.
[18:08] <rahtgaz> I love Arch, but it's not all roses. I do have a significant beef with it:
[18:10] <rahtgaz> The iso has absolutely no support for USB modems. Meaning you are screwed if you are not on a router-based internet. You'll have to slipstream the iso installation to add support to the setup program. And if setting up a live Arc is already difficult, imagine altering the iso with packages and configs. I was very vocal about this a couple of years back. But they haven't changed it
[18:11] <rahtgaz> If I were to try and install Arch today on my present location I couldn't. The setup wouldn't be able to connect to the internet where it goes to fetch all packages, since the iso is minimal.
[18:14] <rahtgaz> My Arch box is old and starting to fail me. I'd love to do a reinstall on another machine. And this is the reason why I am leaving Arch for good. My main computer will remain Ubuntu-MATE, but the place where I tweak and learn about linux will move to something else. I'm considering Solus.
[18:15] <rahtgaz> I could fill a screen with this stuff. It pisses me off royaly. But i'll shutup now :)
[18:16] <Akuli> actually the debian/devuan netinstall isn't any better
[18:16] <rahtgaz> I know. Same with Gentoo
[18:18] <rahtgaz> It's a common thing among root distros (notable exception being Fedora). Only their derivatives tend to implement wider connectivity support
[18:19] <rahtgaz> but you should explore zsh a bit more, Akuli. It's an amazing shell
[18:19] <Akuli> lol
[18:19] <rahtgaz> really :)
[18:19] <Akuli> just give me /bin/sh and i'm happy. or give me bash and i'm even happier.
[18:20] <Akuli> no broken autocompletion please
[18:21] <rahtgaz> autocompletion is the strongest selling point of zsh. It's full of features. It's what everyone is after when they move to zsh. Yours was probably improperly configure. I must say properly configuring zsh is easy though
[18:21] <rahtgaz> isn't*
[18:21] <DarkPsydeLord> but you can create your own version of arch systemd free
[18:21] <Akuli> i want each program to do one thing and do it well, not to be full of features
[18:22] <Akuli> goodbye zsh and systemd
[18:22] <rahtgaz> well zsh does autocompletion and does it well lol
[18:22] <rahtgaz> bah! :)
[18:22] <rahtgaz> you people and your ideologies. You must hate grep, sed and awk :)
[18:23] <rahtgaz> find is horrible yoo
[18:23] <rahtgaz> too*
[18:23] <Akuli> grep is fine, because the basic usage is still simple
[18:23] <DarkPsydeLord> well i do hate rebooting after updates as in windows
[18:23] <Akuli> foo | grep bar
[18:23] <DarkPsydeLord> now with systemd
[18:23] <DarkPsydeLord> XD
[18:23] <Akuli> really simple
[18:25] <rahtgaz> systemd is fine. The whole ruckus took on a dimension because most people didn't have an idea of what they were talking about and just jumped the aggravated bandwagon. A couple of years ago on a forums where a bunch of folks were arguing strongly against systemd, I asked them what did they understand about the linux boot process to even have an opinion about the matter.
[18:25] <rahtgaz> Guess in a room of 20 people, how many answered
[18:25] <rahtgaz> none
[18:25] <Akuli> features are fine, as long as they're not in my way by default and they are not trying to replace other programs they shouldn't
[18:25] <Akuli> like an init daemon controlling sockets
[18:32] <DarkPsydeLord> so arch openrc combo for you mighy work
[18:34] <DarkPsydeLord> what the hell is wrong with my and my spelling lately
[18:35] <Akuli> i nevvr splell stfuff crorreclty
[18:42] <DarkPsydeLord> o well i guess is fine for you
[18:42] <DarkPsydeLord> not really for me because im constantly being mocked by my colleagues
[18:42] <tadcan> I removed the libreoffice ppa and did a purge, now when i go to the software boutique it doesn't have an install button. Should I just install with apt-get instead, is that the same
[18:42] <DarkPsydeLord> yes it is and for me the prefered way
[18:44] <DarkPsydeLord> tadcan: wait what are we talking about?
[18:47] <tadcan> oh, sorry, had libreoffice install with ppa, but the new update broke the fancy UI. So i removed it to put the default ubuntu mate instead, however it it still seen as installed in the software boutique, so I'm wondering if I should just ignore that and do an apt-get install
[18:47] <tadcan> Was talking with someone else earlier, who seems to have left
[18:47] <rahtgaz> how did you remove it?
[18:48] <tadcan> followed the first answer here http://askubuntu.com/questions/356976/how-to-remove-and-prevent-libreoffice-ppa-and-updates-from-installing
[18:50] <rahtgaz> good gracious. remove a repo before uninstalling. That answer should be deleted
[18:50] <rahtgaz> ok, you want to do this right. First add again the ppa
[18:51] <rahtgaz> then purge, then remove the ppa
[18:52] <tadcan> ok thanks
[18:52] <DarkPsydeLord> i will perform a remove -- purge && autoclean
[18:53] <rahtgaz> no
[18:53] <rahtgaz> You want to add the ppa again, then purge libreoffice and only then remove the ppa
[18:54] <DarkPsydeLord> i ment as a command not as step
[18:54] <rahtgaz> that should hopefully be enough for APT to understand you no onger have libree office installed, and boutique will revert back to the install button
[18:54] <rahtgaz> oh, right
[18:54] <DarkPsydeLord> sudo apt-get remove --purge libre && autoclean
[18:54] <DarkPsydeLord> you get the idea
[18:54] <rahtgaz> yup yup
[18:55] <DarkPsydeLord> so we make sure nothing is left there
[18:55] <rahtgaz> and tadcan: never remove a ppa before uninstalling the program. That's fine for simple programs with few or no dependencies. But can be a nightmare on larger programs like libreoffice
[18:55] <tadcan> just so I'm clear add and install libreoffice, purge libreoffice, remove ppa
[18:56] <rahtgaz> correct
[18:56] <tadcan> ok
[18:57] <DarkPsydeLord> add ppa first because you removed it already then purge libreoffice the remove ppa
[18:57] <alkisg> guys note that when purging a package, mate-desktop may be removed as well
[18:57] <alkisg> if it depends on that package
[18:58] <alkisg> It's best to downgrade than purge a necessary package
[18:58] <alkisg> I think that ppa-purge downgrades instead of purging packages, doesn't it?
[18:58] <rahtgaz> mate-desktop is a non-essential metapackage. it's fine. mine's long gone as is also the matedesktop-core
[18:58] <DarkPsydeLord> ^
[18:59] <alkisg> Not all dependencies of mate-desktop are marked as manually installed
[18:59] <alkisg> So they're autoremoved when mate-desktop is removed and apt purge --auto-remove is called
[18:59] <tadcan> ok reinstalling ppa now
[19:00] <tadcan> i mean reinstalling libreoffice
[19:01] <rahtgaz> alkisg: admittedly I don't know the details, but you may wish to bring that to the forums. Every single instance that package has been brough up for discussion there everyone, including admins have stated it is fine. If you are right, that's an important piece of information you need to share
[19:02] <DarkPsydeLord> well it actually detonated my curiosity and now im reading about mate
[19:02] <alkisg> rahtgaz: I just tested with removing ubuntu-mate-desktop and then running apt purge --auto-remove, and it didn't remove the packages,
[19:02] <alkisg> which means that either ubiquity or the cd builder or a mate-desktop task marked the packages as manually installed,
[19:03] <tadcan> hmm the UI is back to how it was
[19:03] <rahtgaz> tadcan: it's been fixed in the emantime i think
[19:03] <alkisg> so while in theory I *could* be write (I've tried it in the past in other desktops), in practise i was wrong, it doesn't make any difference
[19:03] <alkisg> s/write/right
[19:04] <tadcan> ah ok, what is the current version of libreoffice in mate?
[19:04] <rahtgaz> 5.2 something
[19:04] <rahtgaz> alkisg: i think you were definitely right sometime ago, because I seem to remember some problems with that package in 14.04
[19:04] <tadcan> same as the ppa then, probably be less issues if i just stick to the official version
[19:05] <tadcan> ok will do the purge
[19:05] <alkisg> rahtgaz: it's the task: apt show xserver-xorg-video-all | grep task ==> ubuntu-mate-desktop there
[19:05] <alkisg> So it's still true for packages that are not part of the ubuntu-mate-desktop *task* (not metapackage)
[19:05]  * rahtgaz nods
[19:05] <tadcan> this command ok? sudo apt-get remove --purge libre && autoclean
[19:06] <rahtgaz> tadcan: wait
[19:06] <tadcan> ok
[19:06] <alkisg> (the task packages get marked as manually installed, while the metapackage dependencies are not marked as such, and are autoremoved when the metapackage is removed)
[19:06] <rahtgaz> tadcan: i just remembered there's a post in the forums that fixes the libreoffice problem for those who are having it
[19:07] <alkisg> libreoffice is at 1:5.1.4-0ubuntu1
[19:07] <rahtgaz> that's on the ubuntu repos, alkisg
[19:07] <rahtgaz> the ppa that the Boutique offers puts it at 5.2
[19:08] <alkisg> I have a standard mate installation and I don't have any libreoffice ppa
[19:08] <alkisg> I haven't used boutique though
[19:08] <rahtgaz> precisely, mate
[19:08] <tadcan> rahtgaz link?
[19:08] <rahtgaz> c'mon mate, search for it. I'm feeling lazy. It's not an old post. A few days back
[19:09] <tadcan> ok
[19:09] <rahtgaz> I mean the ubuntu-mate forums, not that loud chicken party at the ubuntu forums
[19:10] <rahtgaz> there's some really good info on the Ubuntu forums, but it's become increasingly difficult to separate the good from the bad there. Topo much noise
[19:10] <rahtgaz> s/top/too
[19:10] <rahtgaz> s/topo/too
[19:11] <tadcan> looking at help and support section of the ubuntu mate forums
[19:12] <ouroumov> was at least one guy with a libreoffice trouble in the last day
[19:12] <rahtgaz> tadcan: https://ubuntu-mate.community/t/gtk-theme-lost-since-update-of-libreoffice-to-5-2/8092
[19:14] <tadcan> thanks, thats the one I'm looking at
[19:15] <rahtgaz> and don't forget to register. the folks there are very helpful and it's a good community of nice people, anyways :)
[19:16] <tadcan> when i reinstalled from the ppa, it included that apt package
[19:17] <tadcan> will try that on my laptop, had the same issue there
[19:17] <rahtgaz> and still the same problem persists?
[19:17] <rahtgaz> could you please show a screenshot? everyone speaks of it, but i never saw it myself. my update happened without accident
[19:18] <rahtgaz> i mean incident
[19:19] <tadcan> sorry for the misunderstanding I thought i said when the ppa was reinstalled the problem was fixed
[19:19] <tadcan> but if the mate version is the same would save long term problems by just using the mate version
[19:21] <rahtgaz> oh, alright. Yes, it's probably for the best that you use the ppa advised by the ubuntu-MATE maintainers
[19:22] <rahtgaz> at least you will have someone close to home to blame ;)
[19:22] <tadcan> and not have you guys to fix self inflicted wounds
[19:22] <rahtgaz> lol. precisely
[19:23] <tadcan> so i do the purge command next?
[19:23] <rahtgaz> yes.
[19:25] <tadcan> ok done the purge
[19:27] <tadcan> and removed the ppa, but still not in the software boutique, restart?
[19:27] <rahtgaz> no. restart won't do a thing
[19:27] <madhu> how to update brodcom wifi drivers
[19:27] <rahtgaz> what do you see in the boutique?
[19:28] <madhu> i want to connetct a wifi network with the wps support
[19:29] <tadcan> rahtgaz, i see a list of programs from calibre to retext and libreoffice base can be installed because that wasn't included with the ppa
[19:29] <DarkPsydeLord> ok
[19:29] <DarkPsydeLord> so
[19:30] <rahtgaz> No LibreOffice itself. Just the libre Office base, correct?
[19:31] <DarkPsydeLord> brb going out for lunch
[19:31] <tadcan> libreoffice has a show button that lists the ppa as source and base that has an install button
[19:32] <rahtgaz> what was the name of that ppa again? the one you uninstaleld?
[19:33] <rahtgaz> tadcan: I'm just collecting my thoughts here. I think I know of a way but I am also on uncharted territory here now. And want to be careful
[19:33] <tadcan> https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice/+archive/libreoffice-5-2
[19:33] <tadcan> rahtgaz take your time, thanks for your help
[19:33] <rahtgaz> alright. We are going to manually install the ubuntu-MATE ppa now
[19:34] <tadcan> ok
[19:34] <rahtgaz> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:libreoffice/ppa
[19:35] <tadcan> rahtgaz done
[19:35] <rahtgaz> don't install
[19:35] <rahtgaz> good
[19:35] <rahtgaz> just don't install anything yet. give me a sec
[19:35] <tadcan> waiting for your next instruction
[19:36] <rahtgaz> close boutique and then do sudo apt-get update
[19:37] <tadcan> rahtgaz update finished
[19:37] <rahtgaz> lucky bastard. mines' take forever
[19:37] <rahtgaz> alright, open boutique and see if anything changed. don't lose heart if it hasn't
[19:38] <tadcan> same as before
[19:39] <rahtgaz> one last thing before we install it manually:
[19:40] <rahtgaz> start the Software Updater and see if it shows there
[19:40] <rahtgaz> meanwhile i'm just looking at synaptic trying to determine the packages you need to install
[19:40] <tadcan> nope, software upo
[19:41] <tadcan> up to date
[19:42] <rahtgaz> ok. we are going to start installing it manually. Hopefully after this everything will go back to normal
[19:43] <tadcan> ok
[19:43] <rahtgaz> I'm unsure as to the exact packages. there's no metapackage here but we start with: sudo apt-get install libreoffice-core
[19:44] <rahtgaz> it will show a bunch of dependencies that will also be installed
[19:44] <tadcan> installing now
[19:44] <tadcan> finished
[19:45] <tadcan> just have main libreoffice window
[19:45] <tadcan> install writer next?
[19:46] <rahtgaz> did it install libreoffice gtk and gtk2
[19:46] <rahtgaz> ?
[19:47] <tadcan> no, doesn't look like it
[19:48] <tadcan> will do history and look for that command
[19:48] <rahtgaz> alright: sudo apt-get install libreoffice-gtk libreoffice-gtk2
[19:48] <rahtgaz> it won't show on history
[19:49] <tadcan> done
[19:49] <rahtgaz> ok, just one more to be sure, although I think it will tell you it's already installed
[19:50] <rahtgaz> sudo apt-get install libreoffice-common
[19:50] <tadcan> already at newest version
[19:50] <rahtgaz> ok. now...
[19:51] <rahtgaz> audo apt-get install libreoffice-gnome libreoffice-calc libreoffice-draw libreoffice-math libreoffice-impress libreoffice-write
[19:51] <rahtgaz> not write, writer
[19:52] <rahtgaz> and not audo, but sudo. but you know that
[19:52] <tadcan> installing now
[19:53] <rahtgaz> we are not done yet
[19:53] <tadcan> ah, thought we were, install finished
[19:53] <rahtgaz> almost
[19:55] <rahtgaz> sudo apt-get install libreoffice-avmedia-backend-gstreamer libreoffice-help-en-us libreoffice-ogltrans libreoffice-pdfimport
[19:56] <rahtgaz> and lastly the styles:
[19:56] <rahtgaz> just the basic ones. But it's what almost everyone uses anyway:
[19:57] <rahtgaz> sudo apt-get install libreoffice-style-breeze libreoffice-style-galaxy libreoffice-style-human libreoffice-style-tango
[19:58] <tadcan> ok done
[19:58] <rahtgaz> should start normally now
[19:59] <tadcan> doing the style ones now
[20:00] <rahtgaz> you won't believe what I just found... there's a metapackage afterall :p We could have dne that with a single package installation. oh well :p
[20:00] <tadcan> those icons are stand out more
[20:00] <rahtgaz> good or bad?
[20:01] <tadcan> haha, live and learn. For my laptop, what is the meta package. Will use it for a few days and see
[20:02] <rahtgaz> just 'libreoffice' and you may wish to install it, incase we missed anything. But there's more important things to do now: check Boutique
[20:04] <rahtgaz> does it show a launch buntton on the libreoffice entry?
[20:04] <rahtgaz> s/buntton/button
[20:04] <rahtgaz> don't mind my fat fingers
[20:05] <tadcan> libreoffice now has a launch button, and base has an install button which should be there because it wasn't in the command
[20:05] <rahtgaz> does it say libreoffice is set to receive updates?
[20:06] <tadcan> yes there is a bold line with a tick saying will get latest updates
[20:06] <rahtgaz> it's done, mate :)
[20:06] <rahtgaz> where do I send the check?
[20:06] <tadcan> yah thanks rahtgaz, you're a star!
[20:06] <rahtgaz> it was a pleasure. have fun :)
[20:23] <DarkPsydeLord> hi again
[20:46] <ouroumov> christop, seriously
[22:33] <rahtgaz> I can't find anything in the notebook line of software that fancies me. Currently I'm using CherryTree but it has many odditiesand the file format isn't compatible with anything else. Zim does a terrible mess of markdown and its nearly unusable if your notes tend to be full of code blocks.
[22:33] <rahtgaz> Tried a few others which I can't remember the names, and they are likewise troubled
[22:34] <rahtgaz> Almost makes me feel that the only good note taker is just installing Wordpress and do my own offline blog.
[22:37] <ouroumov> why wordpress?
[22:38] <ouroumov> ever heard of pelican?
[22:39] <rahtgaz> actually i was about to ask that question, because suddenly i started to like the idea of an offline blog, but needed opinions on what to choose. preferably a static one
[22:39] <rahtgaz> will take a look at it ouroumov :)
[22:39] <ouroumov> http://blog.getpelican.com/
[22:39] <ouroumov> =)
[22:41] <rahtgaz> this and nginx will set me straight. what do you know of its search features? it has good plugins for that? preferably regex support?
[22:44] <rahtgaz> nothing on the plugins section. but these are static pages. grep or even a python script can do that for me. it doesn't matter