bluesabreUnit193: I see jbicha added some comments for xfdashboard, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1598503/comments/5, I can go ahead and start making those changes00:50
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1598503 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] xfdashboard" [Wishlist,In progress]00:50
Unit193bluesabre: Great, I've either been busy or putting that off. >_>00:52
bluesabreUnit193: np :)00:54
bluesabreUnit193: would you like to review? https://git.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+git/xfdashboard/commit/?id=d2ca4649c22724ae0248c75413e43d85664b455c - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1598503/comments/502:30
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1598503 in Ubuntu "[needs-packaging] xfdashboard" [Wishlist,In progress]02:30
Unit193Wait, I actually manually put that in the wrong install?  How late was that...02:33
Unit193bluesabre: Don't override dh_auto_configure.02:33
Unit193And for changelog, prefix "Initial release" with [ Unit 193 / Sean Davis ] ?02:34
Unit193Otherwise, seems like it's missing the symbols.02:34
Unit193git add02:34
Unit193bluesabre: Thanks for doing it. :>02:36
bluesabreUnit193: anything else?02:36
Unit193I think that's good, as long as you say so, Mr Technical lead. :---D02:37
* Unit193 runs.02:37
* bluesabre dons the hat.02:38
bluesabreproductive night :)02:48
Unit193I saw you active over in #xfce-dev, but wasn't following along.02:49
bluesabrefixed this antique, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-331/+bug/130810502:50
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1308105 in xfce4-settings "Xfce resets TV mode to NULL when power cycled" [Critical,Confirmed]02:50
bluesabre(or rather, committed somebody's patch)02:50
bluesabretime for bed, bbl02:58
flocculantbluesabre: thanks :)06:11
flocculantbluesabre: also might have a try again with tv and 16.04 now that you patched, I see the update in the ppa :)06:37
flocculanttjaalton has uploaded the intel thing seemingly :)06:41
Unit193!info xfdashboard yakkety08:19
ubottuPackage xfdashboard does not exist in yakkety08:19
Unit193!info xfdashboard yakkety-proposed08:19
ubottuPackage xfdashboard does not exist in yakkety-proposed08:19
bluesabreflocculant, Unit193: woohoo, progress! Glad I stayed up late :)09:47
Unit193Oh crap, you're here. :309:47
Unit193And of course I mean that in the nice way.  It's still a late night for me...09:52
bluesabresleep is for the other units09:58
flocculant!team | meeting in ~30 minutes19:33
ubottumeeting in ~30 minutes: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit19319:33
ochosiflocculant: thanks for the reminder :)19:45
flocculantochosi: welcome ;)19:52
meetingologyMeeting started Fri Aug 12 20:00:11 2016 UTC.  The chair is flocculant. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.20:00
meetingologyAvailable commands: action commands idea info link nick20:00
flocculantthat's going to be fun then ...20:00
flocculantwho's where 20:00
flocculantor even here20:01
flocculantevening krytarik 20:01
flocculant#topic Open action items20:02
flocculantwe can deal with that waiting to see20:02
flocculantbluesabre and flocculant dealt with their action item20:03
flocculant#done bluesabre and flocculant to reword the SD to formalize the council.20:03
flocculant#topic Announcements and Updates20:03
flocculantFeatureFreeze DebianImportFreeze next week, 18th August20:04
flocculant#info QA is quiet - pretty normal for post LTS cycle20:04
flocculantnow I'll just wait around for a bit 20:04
knome#info Feature Freeze and Debian Import Freeze next week (18th August)20:04
ochosi(sorry iÄm late)20:06
knomeyes you Äre20:06
ochosiyes i am20:06
flocculantwb ochosi - fashionably late this time, instead of really late :p20:06
flocculantochosi: any updates?20:07
flocculanthi dkessel 20:07
flocculant#info SRU for Intel lock/cursor bug is progressing afaict20:08
ochosiyeah, i saw the SRU progress too20:08
ochosisounded promising20:08
ochosiother than that i'm still fighting with getting the greybird release out20:08
knomeochosi, i have a question20:08
ochosihad some showstoppers, but this time it'll *really* be a matter of days :)20:08
knomeochosi, how do you hear with your eyes?20:08
* flocculant starts counting 20:09
ochosiknome: awesome question, thanks :)20:09
knomeyou're welcome20:09
flocculantany other updates - if not we can move along20:09
ochosiother than that i'll soon set up a physical yakkety machine so i can get some real-world testing done20:09
knomemove along from me20:09
ochosii think i have no real updates at this moment, other than what i mentioned20:10
ochosii'm working a lot on xfce upstream stuff20:10
flocculantI see that :)20:10
ochosibut that'll only be relevant if we decide to ship it all in 16.020:10
ochosiprobably worth starting a list of gtk3 components or releases we want to ship20:10
knomeochosi, i have a question20:10
knomeochosi, where would we ship it all?20:11
flocculantto an iso I would hope20:11
knomeor maybe to a distant island...20:11
flocculant#topic Discussion items20:11
flocculant#subtopic Xubuntu Council20:11
ochosiknome: in "16.10" (which is a boat of the length of 16m and width of 10m)20:11
flocculantNow that doc change is done we need to open up for nominations, suggest mail out today/tomorrow with nominations ending 26th August, which should be more than enough time. Send vote mail out on 29th August with vote ending on 4th September, meaning council will be in place good 2 weeks prior to the only milestone we're doing this cycle.20:11
flocculantochosi: that's a plank :D20:11
knomeflocculant, sounds like a good plan to me20:12
ochosiflocculant: sure it is :)20:12
ochosiand yeah, +1 on the timeline20:12
ochosiso the council would be in place before the 16.10 release20:12
flocculantochosi: yea 20:12
flocculantwell before20:12
ochosihad almost given up hope we would make that :)20:12
flocculantthere's this club - you could have joined it ;)20:13
flocculantkrytarik dkessel ^^ 20:13
ochosiyeah, wasn't around enough to give valuable input so i thought i'd stay out of it not to stall things20:13
flocculantochosi: wrong club - I meant the given up hope one ...20:14
knomeyeah, flocculant is the chair for life of that club... :P20:14
ochosiyeah, i'd also hate to disrupt that club then20:15
flocculantknome: nope - about another 10 weeks ;)20:15
knome(not the benevolent, and not necessarily self-appointed either, but definitely the dictator)20:15
flocculantakxwi can chair it after that 20:15
dkesselOh, should I point out that I agree? I agree with the plan.20:15
knomebenches! please give some attention and love to benches too!!20:15
flocculantdkessel: well - you're here and in team so yes why not :)20:16
knomedkessel, not mandatory, but nice to hear you do :)20:16
flocculantanything else on that timeline? 20:16
knomeflocculant, so shall you take the #action item and get on with it?20:16
knome^ that :P20:16
knomeor does ochosi want to announce20:16
knomesince sitting XPL20:16
ochosiyeah, i can, but flocculant did all the work..20:17
knomeisn't that how it's used to go20:17
flocculantdepends if ochosi can do it today/tomorrow :p20:17
knomeochosi, yeah, welcome to the club (the "let others do the work and take the credit")20:17
flocculant#action ochosi to announc opening nominations for Xubuntu Council with timeline20:17
meetingologyACTION: ochosi to announc opening nominations for Xubuntu Council with timeline20:17
knome(just let it be and end the meeting already...)20:18
flocculantyea - I had an e kicking around but lost it20:18
knome/kick e20:18
flocculantanyone got any other pressing issues to add to the meeting? 20:18
ochosii'll just mail out that sentence from flocculant from the scrollback20:18
ochosii have probably a little thing20:19
ochosisince Unit193 brought it up on -ot20:19
knomethere's a new finnish youtube channel, where people break stuff with hydraulic *presses*20:19
knomethat's a very pressing issue20:19
knomeochosi, go ahead.20:19
flocculantochosi: subtopic it then :)20:19
ochosiknome obviously had sex with a clown today20:19
knomewell i met a client20:19
knomeisn't that comparable?20:19
flocculantochosi: not a very funny one ...20:19
ochosi#subtopic Development releases of Xfce in 16.10?20:20
ochosiflocculant: indeed :)20:20
ochosiso basically what i'd like us to discuss briefly is whether anyone considers it a risk shipping 4.13 releases in 16.1020:20
knomethe risk Unit193 saw was that we wouldn't be able to get into xfce 4.14 before 18.04 fwiw20:21
ochosiwhat i mentioned earlier (putting together a list of components we want in 16.10) was mostly targetted at applications and *maybe* panel plugins20:21
flocculantochosi: given we shipped broken intel and that file manager in an LTS then I don't ;)20:21
ochosibut it's true that it would help xfce if we shipped 4.13 early in our "regular" releases20:21
knomei don't see a big risk here, but i have a question20:21
knome(not a trolly one)20:21
knomewhat else do we want to achieve before the next LTS?20:21
ochosigood question...20:22
knomeor are we simply going to maintaining mode for the next 3 releases?20:22
knomeand if not, how do the other plans work with the xfce development packages being there?20:22
ochosipersonally my goal is maintaining the artwork (which seems to be continuous work anyway with the gtk devs breaking stuff) and porting xfce as good as i can20:22
knomedo we have the manpower to realistically even plan more stuff if we land the new xfce stuff?20:22
knomelet's forget about the rest of the maintaining stuff we need to do anyway20:23
ochosifor xubuntu as a whole i would say try to get rid of as much old technologies as we can20:23
knomei'm talking about new features or something else that needs extra work and planning20:23
flocculantochosi: the only risk that I see is whether there are enough people checking the 4.13 stuff - as you'd expect20:23
Unit193flocculant: File manager was ours, intel driver isn't really ours.  This would be *us* "breaking" things.20:23
ochosiproblem is that at the moment our "developers" are busy with working on upstream xfce stuff20:23
knomeso what else old technologies do we have except gtk2?20:23
knomeis there still some python2 stuff around?20:23
flocculantUnit193: indeed20:24
ochosimaybe python2, maybe gstreamer stuff, not sure20:24
Unit193gst0.10 is gone.20:24
knomeif our plan is to get that out before 18.04, could somebody who is knowledgeable on the subject create a roadmap for that side?20:24
ochosii guess bluesabre could20:24
ochosiafter all he's our snake-charmer20:25
Unit193ochosi: Can you clarify on 'old technologies' a bit more?20:25
knomethat too20:25
knomei don't think that's a discussion for the meeting necessarily20:26
knomeit might be better on the mailing list20:26
ochosiUnit193: well, that was mostly targeted at middleware that our applications and desktop use20:26
ochosiso gtk2, gstreamer, ...20:26
knomewe might actually get some useful ideas/pointers from the community here20:26
knomeochosi, want to take the action to send another mail?20:26
Unit193ochosi: Basically I'm trying to figure out if you're trying to do away more with a classic desktop.20:26
knomei don't think this has anything to do with classic/modern desktops20:27
ochosiUnit193: nope, not really thinking about mobile when i say "technology" here ;)20:27
knomeor change of direction in the kind of desktop we want here20:27
Unit193No, not mobile either way.20:27
ochosijust getting rid of extra packages we have to ship and that might not be as well maintained anymore20:27
ochosi(or not at all)20:27
ochosilike the murrine engine20:27
Unit193ochosi: That, I'm good with! :P20:28
knomepotentially some of this work might mean stuff would get removed from the repositories20:28
ochosiso basically my BIG goal for 18.04 would be to be gtk3 all the way20:28
knomewhich is not necessarily a bad thing20:28
knomeochosi, that depends more on xfce though, but yeah, sure20:28
ochosiyeah mostly20:28
Unit193Well, GTK3 only might be pretty big, but otherwise right.20:28
ochosibut we might still have stuff lingering around20:28
knomebut again my question is if that's the *only* goal too?20:28
ochosii'd say it could be the main goal20:29
ochosisince it's quite big on its own20:29
knomei can agree with that, but again it's partly out of our reach20:29
ochosiwell it depends20:29
knomei mean out of our control20:29
ochosiif we say it's our goal then one consequence would be to double-down and install (tested) 4.13 releases of xfce components20:30
knomesure, xubuntu developers can user their time in helping xfce, but that doesn't guarantee it's ready for 18.0420:30
ochosiwell nothing guarantees that anyway20:30
knomeof course not20:30
knomebut that's exactly what i meant20:30
ochosii'd say we should clean our front yard20:30
ochosimake a list of what other gtk2 stuff we have20:30
ochosiand try to replace it 20:30
flocculantfor this amount - should have been on the agenda20:30
knomethat was what i was proposing earlier20:31
ochosithinking of pidgin etc.20:31
ochosiflocculant: yeah, well spontaneous idea. blame Unit193!20:31
knomeflocculant, i agree it probably should have been, but i don't want to slow down impromptu discussion20:31
knomewe're not making decisions here anyway20:31
Unit193ochosi: Noooope, I didn't mention it here! :P20:31
ochosias long as "here" is IRC... ;)20:31
ochosiUnit193: wanna make a list of things still gtk2 in our default install?20:32
flocculantat least 2 people who should be involved aren't here20:32
Unit193Anything else for the meeting?  Discussion can continue afterwards I believe.20:32
flocculantknome: ^^20:32
knomeflocculant, should that stop us from discussing?20:32
ochosiflocculant: there's no decision-taking anyway, it's more a fact-finding mission (is going all gtk3 even realistic for 18.04, even when we exclude xfce)20:32
flocculantonly when you're not running things20:32
knomeas i see it, part of the reason we have scheduled meetings is that we give the opportunity for people to meet and discuss, even impromptu, non-agenda items20:33
knomeflocculant, i'll take the chair and run the rest of the meeting if that's the issue20:33
knomeand i do think that all of the team should be involved in the decision whether we want to ship (gtk3) development versions from xfce or not20:34
Unit193Not entirely keen on the idea.20:35
knomewe'll never have everyone here, even if the topic is on the agenda and the meeting is announced well in advance; people simply have blockers20:35
knomeUnit193, keen on what? team being involved?20:36
flocculantso the bulk should be on the mailing list20:36
Unit193knome: Exxxactly!  Nope, GTK3 Xfce so early.20:36
knome...but again, the reason why we schedule meetings (at least as i see it) it is to be able to have these real-time discussions20:36
knomemailing list is so damn slow.20:36
knomeUnit193, it wasn't obvious (and i guess that there might've been arguments for the other too)20:37
ochosiUnit193: wanna share your concerns?20:37
Unit193OK, now it is though. :)20:37
knomeyes, thanks for clearing20:37
knomeand i'd like to hear the concerns too20:39
Unit193Updating my yak iso so I can check gtk2 (maybe) and py2.20:39
knomeis the concern that you don't trust enough that the all-gtk3 port is ready?20:40
knomeor is something else involved?20:40
knome(not saying the former isn't a good argument)20:40
ochosisry guys, i'll be afk for 30mins or so, i'll return later on though and read the backlog20:41
knomei guess we should hear the arguments from Unit193 and end the meeting, or if he wants time to think about it, just end the meeting20:41
Unit193I'm thinking that it's very early for those releases, not a lot of testing outside of the people that ported them (so might well not be fully baked), and then getting stuck with it for 6 months.20:41
Unit193I'm good with ending now, either way.20:42
knomefor a longer time, actually20:42
flocculantUnit193: Id' worry about that as well given the testing *we* manage to get20:42
knomeif that's the concern, then from xfce's point of view, who's going to do the testing outside those who ported?20:42
knome(rhetorical, and partly offtopic, let's not go to that here)20:42
Unit193That's what Debian experimental is for, people to opt-in not in static releases, like ours.  I'd say we could PPA everything (smoke test it first), and heck even mention that PPA in the official release notes.20:44
knomeUnit193, that's a fair suggestion and i considered that as well20:44
knomeUnit193, theoretically, could you whip up an ISO with the PPA stuff installed?20:44
knome(and yeah, the other goal for 18.04 at latest should be core/base)20:45
Unit193Just the whole idea of "New release of Xubuntu!"  "Oh, and btw.  You're all testers, you'll file bugs right?"20:45
knomethough now is the perfect time20:45
knomewell, the best; let me explain20:46
knome16.10 is the first release after an LTS; at this point those who don't want to be testers can still decide to go the LTS->LTS upgrade route20:46
knomeif we land the stuff in 17.04, those who have gone to 16.10 do not have that option any more, and they are even more forced to be testers20:46
Unit193flocculant: Ready to end the meeting?  This is after meeting stuff.20:47
flocculantknome: on the other hand - if it all goes badly wrong - those people are now stuck upgrading to 17.04 as soon as possible20:48
flocculant#info bluesabre to schedule next meeting20:48
meetingologyMeeting ended Fri Aug 12 20:48:56 2016 UTC.  20:48
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2016/xubuntu-devel.2016-08-12-20.00.moin.txt20:48
flocculantknome: and then they'd be using a real dev version till it's released20:49
knomeflocculant, sure, but it's much more opt-in kind of situation if the gtk3 stuff first lands in 16.1020:49
flocculantyea ofc20:49
knomeof course. but they could always skip to 18.0420:49
Unit193On a personal note, I was packaging, smoke testing, then uploading to the PPA but I lost interest once I started seeing the panel plugins in GTK3 form. :/20:50
knomei'm not saying it's waterproof, i'm saying i think it's better to land the stuff now than to 17.04 because at that point we have little control over telling people what their options are - because they have picked their choice already20:50
flocculantif I wasn't me (likely to do this anyway) and I found I was forced to test for a whole cycle then I would seriously consider moving20:50
knomeUnit193, if it's the visual side you're not happy with, then we might want to discuss this with ochosi and see if there are any way to make stuff look better20:51
flocculantand you're right in that pov, now rather than 17.04, when people have made a choice - however what you're talking about is making a choice for them20:51
Unit193knome: Visual and responsive, just like how Firefox is less responsive since it moved to GTK3 too.20:51
flocculantunless people know befoer they install20:51
knomeUnit193, yeah20:52
knomeflocculant, we still have time to communicate that to our users.20:52
Unit193knome: Please, keep my personal and part of the team opinions seperate.20:52
knomeflocculant, and we can add disclaimers to the website with any 16.04+ releases20:52
flocculantwhat would be best imo would be things in ppa asap for people to test - even half broken maybe20:53
knomeUnit193, i'm not sure how that's possible though... but sure, i understand that there's "what Unit193 wants" and "what Unit193 thinks is sensible for xubuntu"20:53
Unit193(Otherwise I get stuck not being able to say my personal opinion.)20:53
knomei think everybody should say their personal opinion, and when it's time to vote, or when specifically asked, do what they think is the best for xubuntu20:54
knomeeverything i say is always my personal opinion20:54
flocculantanyway - I'll just say this and be off for now20:55
flocculantuntil there's something concrete for me to have an opinion - either personal or for xubuntu - I'll hold fire :)20:56
flocculantnight all20:56
knomegood night flocculant 20:56
Unit193knome: http://u193.ga/c/x4ax/ - http://u193.ga/c/8y2y/ btw.21:03
Unit193https://sigma.unit193.net/c/x4ax/ - https://sigma.unit193.net/c/8y2y/21:04
knomethat was needed for something to work21:04
Unit193gvfs, basically. :P21:04
Unit193https://bugzilla.samba.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10028 - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1014589 - https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=78191321:06
ubottuError: Could not parse XML returned by bugzilla.samba.org: Connection reset by peer. (https://bugzilla.samba.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10028&ctype=xml)21:06
ubottubugzilla.redhat.com bug 1014589 in samba "samba: Support Python 3" [Unspecified,New]21:06
ubottuDebian bug 781913 in src:samba "please build bindings for Python3 and let samba-common-bin use them" [Normal,Open]21:06
knomeisn't the support for samba kind of ending anyway, or have i misunderstood?21:06
Unit193...Not that I've heard, at all.21:07
knomethen i've probably misunderstood something21:07
Unit193py2 seems not too hard (except locally, of course! :P ), GTK2...21:09
knomei know21:10
Unit193Also, ISO build.  Depends, if it's drop-in, then sure.  Though would there be a point?21:10
knomei don't know21:11
Unit193Anything else?21:21
* knome shrugs21:23
ochosiok back21:34
Unit193ochosi: Thoughts?  NOW!  We want them all this second!21:35
ochosistill reading, sry :)21:37
ochosiok, so in terms of panel plugins i'm happy to improve the look and feel21:39
ochosii've so far only worked on the ones i use personally (which are not that many tbh) and i'm ok with their looks21:39
ochosilemme know which ones concern you (although i vaguely remember seeing some awful switch-checkbox combinations in screenshots)21:39
Unit193I don't remember anymore, it was in VM and I bailed.21:40
ochosipushing everything to PPAs is a totally valid approach21:40
ochosii guess we should probably have a vote if those are the two options the team considers (PPA everything Gtk3 vs Ship everything Gtk3)21:41
ochosiwhat would be great is if we could ship the development releases of the libs that are backward compatible21:42
ochosie.g. libxfce4ui i would really suggest we ship 4.13.0 because the changes don't break anything gtk221:42
ochosiand we'll need it for some things gtk3.2021:42
ochosiand there might be more of those candidates21:42
ochosi(to clarify what i meant earlier when i said "ship development releases")21:43
ochosii would never suggest shipping xfce4-session untested, that's far too delicate21:43
Unit193Understandable and can't say I really disagree there either, in regards to exo, garcon, and libxfce4ui.21:43
Unit193Personally I'm also fine with gdbus ports.21:43
ochosiapplications like notifyd have independent stable releases and imo we should ship the latest (unless there are known showstopper bugs)21:44
Unit193OK... :(21:44
ochosiwhy so sad? :)21:44
Unit193That one just goes back to my personal opinion! :P  (GTK3 is less responsive, switches are fugly.)21:45
ochosiless responsive in what way? slower?21:46
ochosihaven't noticed any differences lately, but then again i have a fairly new laptop21:48
Unit193Seriously notice it when the computer is under stress and I try to un-minimize firefox.  I could nearly take a nap waiting.21:49
Unit193Menus as well, hence why xfce4-panel doesn't sound fun to get ported, but anyway, not my point.21:49
Unit193< Unit193> Please, keep my personal and part of the team opinions separate.21:50
ochosii'm taking your personal opinion just as seriously though, just as a note21:50
ochosias long as xubuntu is xfce i think there won't be much choice21:51
knometell him one more time he's heard and he'll faint21:51
Unit193(And the whole "GTK3 looks like something to go on a tablet, not a freaking desktop!" :P )21:51
ochosiupstream xfce has decided to go to gtk3 so i guess we should support that as good as we can21:51
ochosiheh, well i think that's very overstated, gtk3 still contains gtk221:52
ochosior most of it21:52
knomeor if we don't want to, let other people take over21:52
ochosithey just added new fancy widgets and decided to use js on the desktop21:52
ochosi(and overthrew their HIG)21:52
ochosithe toolkit itself is still as usable as gtk2 for "regular" desktop applications21:52
ochosijust depends on the app developers what they want to go for, design-wise (as it always has)21:53
ochosi^ ochosi's personal opinion21:53
Unit193Mine being that I lost motivation to PPA all of Xfce4. :P21:53
ochosithat's something to take into account when deciding whether PPAing everything gtk3 is feasible21:54
Unit193Don't see why not.21:54
ochosiwell, nobody with motivation to do it? :p21:56
knomewe can't load everything to him21:56
Unit193https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xfce4-gtk3/+packages is the one you're supposed to be using, but I actually did grab a few more: https://launchpad.net/~unit193/+archive/ubuntu/xfce4-gtk3/+packages21:56
Unit193knome: Not trying to.21:57
ochosii would hope he would help me with porting xfce stuff rather than with PPAing21:57
Unit193...That would put everything on me though.21:57
knomei didn't say you were, but you've said today you didn't have the motivation to finish and then pointed to sean, so i could imagine why somebody could feel that way..21:57
knomeeverything with the gtk3 ppa21:58
knomei'm referring to the whole xubuntu development stuff21:58
knome"sean" can't be the answer to everything21:58
knome(neither can "simon", "unit193" or "pasi")21:58
ochosiUnit193: we should really find more people who know how to package then21:59
Unit193(Lack of motivation coming from the "This all feels like a downgrade" and "Nobody is really 'using' this but me, and I don't like where this is going anyway", with a touch of "I have to smoke test all of these.. :/")22:00
Unit193ochosi: Is there a nice tree somewhere? :D22:00
knomeit doesn't really matter where the lack of motivation comes from in terms of getting it done22:00
Unit193Could, some things are fixable.22:01
knomei don't mean somebody should do something they don't have motivation to do22:01
Unit193Well, in the end, sort of yeah.22:01
knomeno, i don't22:02
Unit193Fine, I do.22:02
knomei appreciate if people do things regardless of it though22:02
knomebut i can't force them22:02
knomeand won't try to22:02
ochosianyway, if you are motivated enough to put together a list of visual deficiencies or at least a starting point (as in: let's start with this particular plugin) we can talk22:03
ochosigaston seemed very open to suggestions anyway22:03
Unit193...Am I supposed to be honest or positive? :P22:04
knomewhich one do you think can help xfce/xubuntu more?22:05
ochosijust be yourself ;)22:05
knomeochosi, one thing that's high on my list is that everything seems to have a lot of padding, and i'd like to make the amount smaller22:06
ochosiguess you gotta be more concrete there22:06
ochosithe stuff i recently ported has exactly the same padding as in gtk222:06
ochosithe themes might not be the same22:06
knomefrom what i've seen so far, that is22:06
knomeif the GUI size is the same as with gtk2, then i'm good22:07
knomethere are some gtk3 widgets i don't like either, like the combined text input/scale22:07
knomeor whatever it's called22:07
knomeit's too easy to click the scale when you're trying to hit the text input22:07
ochosiwhere could i see that widget?22:08
knomeor was that a qt widget?22:08
knomei guess i'm a bit tired :)22:08
ochosithe one from the gimp?22:08
knomein inkscape...22:08
knomei guess it's in gimp too22:08
ochosiright, those are both gtk2 applications :D22:08
Unit193ochosi: https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/docs/xfce4-gtk3.html#_needs_smoke_testing added that.22:08
knomeochosi, ok, then i hate the gtk2 widget and the gtk3 equivalent, and recommend avoiding that widget in porting :P22:09
ochosiknome: not sure there even is a gtk3 equivalent, at least i haven't seen it anywhere. and i agree. that widget is *the worst*22:09
ochosiUnit193: kewl22:09
Unit193Know who can smoke test?  Basically, just add the PPA, upgrade, add the plugin, press a couple buttons and make sure nothing obvious is broken.22:15
Unit193ochosi: Wait, are you volunteering to learn how to package?! :D22:19
bluesabreevening all, catching up on backlog22:20
ochosiUnit193: nah, unless you're volunteering to learn how to write and maintain gtk+2&3 themes :)22:20
Unit193Oh heck no I'm not.22:21
Unit193(Also if I did, I'd be maintaining a different theme. >_>)22:21
Unit193bluesabre: Aren't you supposed to update https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/4.14/roadmap for exo?22:21
bluesabrealrighty, caught up22:23
bluesabreat this point, maybe dev libraries in 16.10, I wouldn't suggest anything else with FF next week22:23
bluesabrePPA for the things we care about sounds sensible22:24
Unit193Easy to update mid cycle too.22:24
bluesabreIf folks are interested in contributing to xfce in ubuntu (but not xubuntu), we can put together an xfce team and related branches, PPAs, etc22:24
bluesabreto reduce xubuntu-developer load22:25
bluesabrethat obviously requires maintenance, but we might be able to get myth/studio folks to also join in if they are so inclined22:26
bluesabreI know they are kind of stepping back a bit, but just a thought22:26
bluesabreochosi: you indicated that you have a gtk 3.20 ppa for xenial?22:27
Unit193Myth is going into very low maintenance mode, just their own packages.22:27
Unit193I don't think Studio right now hasa very many decent packagers.22:28
bluesabrethat clears things up for me22:29
bluesabrebut that will remain on the table, and I'm happy to help folks along if they are interested in doing something to that sort22:30
Unit193(I could be wrong, but though Kaj was the one that did most of the packaging, and he's recently handed the flavor off to someone else.)22:30
Unit193bluesabre: OH, we should add xfdashy to supported.22:30
knomedon't know about the packaging but yes he has22:30
bluesabreUnit193: indeed, and the various *-gtk-themes22:30
bluesabreI'm sure you saw my email, so you knew that already :D22:31
bluesabre(*that as in that was my weekend plan at least)22:31
Unit193bluesabre: Not really arc, though.  Xubuntu doesn't currently use it and Shimmer has nothing to do with it. :322:31
Unit193And yeah, thanks I did see it.22:31
bluesabreUnit193: thanks for all the links, I think that helps me for things I'm planning22:32
bluesabreand I have an exo package22:32
Unit193Links?  And a good exo package? :----D22:33
bluesabreI'll probably toss it into the ppa tonight22:33
bluesabreochosi tested it, so at the very least its usable ;)22:34
Unit193(I was kidding!)22:34
Unit193Yep, sounds good!22:34
Unit193He released another version of eyes fixing the FTBFS with older GTK3, and we also have .20 now too.  Test building no than to staging it goes.22:39
Unit193...Wanna smoke it? :322:40
bluesabreI can check out the package... might take me a bit though, watching videos on a friday after work, motivation < 0.0122:42
Unit193Hahah, yeeeah understandable. :D22:42
knomebluesabre, of which unit? :P22:43
* Unit193 tempted to just upload eyes-plugin to the repo...22:48
* bluesabre has no way of stopping Unit19322:48
Unit193Well, "I'm your commanding officer, stop now." would do it.22:49
ochosibluesabre: you mean like this one? :) https://launchpad.net/~ochosi/+archive/ubuntu/gtk320-xenial23:10
Unit193I remember helping on that one. :P23:11
ochosianyway, sleepy time23:12
ochosinight y'all23:12
bluesabreUnit193: have that eyes package for me to test?23:41
Unit193bluesabre: Yep!  Right https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-eyes-plugin/4.5.0-0ubuntu123:41
bluesabreworks for me23:41
Unit193I did test it, looked exactly the same even.23:42
Unit193(And it's so fringe that nobody really cares, soo.)23:42

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