[04:12] <est31> Hello.
[04:12] <est31> I'm a minetest developer.
[04:13] <est31> Recently there has been a release of an upstream library minetest uses, irrlicht
[04:13] <est31> that release has been ignored by debian, until now
[04:13] <est31> maybe they will continue to ignore it, idk
[04:13] <est31> is there a way to get the newest irrlicht release into ubuntu 16.10?
[04:14] <est31> Thanks to anyone replying.
[04:14] <est31> relevant links:
[04:14] <est31> https://qa.debian.org/cgi-bin/watch?pkg=irrlicht
[04:14] <est31> http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/?p=1575
[04:15] <est31> http://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs//main/i/irrlicht/irrlicht_1.8.3+dfsg1-2_changelog
[04:15] <est31> Current state makes me really sad, as there are bugfixes inside the library which the users need!
[04:15] <est31> s/library/release/
[04:25] <Son_Goku> est31, you need to complain to debian
[04:25] <Unit193> Looks like Julien Puydt did something on it just last month.
[04:25] <Son_Goku> irrlicht comes to ubuntu through the debian import/merge
[04:27] <Son_Goku> if the package in debian is updated quickly enough in unstable and testing, then it'll come to ubuntu 16.10 through the regular automatic import
[04:27] <est31> Son_Goku, no, because there is already a freeze in effect
[04:27] <est31> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianImportFreeze
[04:27] <Son_Goku> then you'll need to request an exception
[04:28] <est31> and what if debian doesn't update in time?
[04:28] <Son_Goku> file a bug in the irrlicht ubuntu package requesting it
[04:28] <Son_Goku> then you're stuck
[04:28] <Son_Goku> as a rule of thumb, ubuntu doesn't make packages
[04:28] <Son_Goku> nor does it generally accept any
[04:29] <Son_Goku> it's downstream from debian, and aside from some extraordinary cases, usually the debian and ubuntu packaging is managed upstream in debian
[04:29] <est31> testing requires stuff to be at least one month in unstable, right?
[04:30] <Son_Goku> normally yes
[04:30] <Son_Goku> however, being in unstable alone is usually enough
[04:30] <Son_Goku> as ubuntu is sourced from testing and unstable
[04:30] <est31> thats enough for updating?
[04:30] <Son_Goku> well, that, and you need to make a good case to the MOTU
[04:31] <est31> 1. only one dep -- minetest
[04:31] <est31> 2. only a bugfix release
[04:31] <Son_Goku> I'm not on the MOTU or an Ubuntu developer
[04:31] <Son_Goku> heck, I don't even use Ubuntu
[04:32] <Son_Goku> you need to file your request here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/irrlicht
[04:32] <Son_Goku> but only after debian is updated
[04:33] <est31> yes.
[04:33] <Son_Goku> good luck
[04:33] <est31> I just know that launchpad is not the medium I want to use so that stuff gets looked at in time
[04:33] <est31> its ... experience
[04:34] <est31> Son_Goku, what distro do you use?
[04:34] <Son_Goku> Fedora and Mageia
[04:35] <est31> Fedora and mageia have this issue as well
[04:35] <est31> https://pkgs.org/search/irrlicht
[04:35] <est31> but I know a mageia packager, I'll contact him as soon as I can reach him on irc
[04:36] <Son_Goku> Akien?
[04:36] <est31> yes :)
[04:36] <Son_Goku> heh
[04:36] <est31> how do you know
[04:36] <Son_Goku> send him an email
[04:37] <Son_Goku> Akien is the leader of the Mageia packagers
[04:37] <Son_Goku> as well as one of the members of the Mageia.Org council
[04:37] <est31> wow
[04:37] <Son_Goku> and... he sent me a bugfix for lugaru several years ago :)
[04:37]  * Son_Goku is the project admin for Lugaru
[04:38] <Son_Goku> he won't be back on IRC until the 26th, but he's available via email
[04:38] <Son_Goku> akien@mageia.org
[04:38] <est31> good to know
[04:38] <est31> thanks Son_Goku will write an email
[04:39] <Son_Goku> as for Fedora...
[04:39] <Son_Goku> irrlicht is maintained by Tom Calloway
[04:39] <Son_Goku> send him an email at spot@fedoraproject.org
[04:39] <est31> i dont care about fedora
[04:39]  * Son_Goku shrugs
[04:39] <est31> minetest is borken on wayland
[04:39] <est31> fedora 25 ships with wayland per default
[04:39] <est31> they ignored it
[04:40] <Son_Goku> uhh
[04:40] <Son_Goku> only one desktop environment uses wayland by default
[04:40] <Son_Goku> that's gnome
[04:40] <est31> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1277165
[04:40] <Son_Goku> the rest of the desktops are using X
[04:41] <Son_Goku> also, wayland is not likely to remain on through the end of f25 development
[04:41] <est31> lets hope that.
[04:41] <Son_Goku> and they're not gutting X support either
[04:42] <Son_Goku> and it's also not being ignored, either
[04:42] <Son_Goku> there's well over a dozen bugs related to that problem
[04:42] <Son_Goku> it's going to get fixed as soon as the wayland folks agree on how to fix it
[04:43] <est31> the only part that needs fixing is xwayland
[04:43] <est31> at this point at least
[04:43]  * Son_Goku shrugs
[04:43] <est31> latest mutter stable release already has pointer locking, and confinement
[04:43] <Son_Goku> just remember not to be mean and spiteful to all the fedora users just because of the gnome people
[04:44] <Son_Goku> the community is much bigger than them
[04:44] <Son_Goku> and spot is a good guy
[04:44] <est31> okay, will drop him a mail
[04:45] <Son_Goku> :D
[04:45] <Son_Goku> we can all be friends, right? :)
[04:46] <est31> Son_Goku, sometimes its hard to be sympathetic to all parts of the open source ecosystem
[04:46] <est31> but you changed my mind about fedora at least
[04:46] <Son_Goku> :)
[04:47] <est31> (It was hard enough btw to convince irrlicht devs to do a release at all...)
[04:47] <est31> :)
[04:48] <pitti> Good morning
[04:59] <tsimonq2> o/ pitti, how are you? :)
[05:00] <pitti> tsimonq2: okayish, thanks (still have an annoying cold); how about you?
[05:02] <tsimonq2> aww get better soon
[05:02] <tsimonq2> I'm great :)
[07:08] <Mirv> pitti: A server error occured. https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/request.cgi?release=yakkety&arch=i386&package=unity8&trigger=ubuntu-system-settings%2F0.4%2B16.10.20160817.2-0ubuntu1
[07:19] <pitti> Mirv: hm, just worked for me
[07:19] <pitti> Mirv: the logs show an SSL timeout
[07:20] <pitti> so it appears to be spurious
[07:56] <Mirv> (thank you)
[08:23] <jamespage> slangasek, I've added aodh and barbican to the misc-servers seed so that they stick in main...
[08:49] <jamespage> hey archive admins - could ovn-controller-vtep and python3-openvswitch be demoted to universe please -  neither should be in main for now
[09:01] <pitti> jamespage: done (in y-proposed, the binaries only exist there)
[09:02] <caribou> xnox: did you get a chance to look at LP: #1611133 since dragan-s uploaded the status files ?
[09:05] <xnox> caribou, no. Just opened good/bad files, they do look weird. (I was not subscribed to the bug, hence didn't get email notifications)
[09:06] <jamespage> pitti, ta
[09:06] <caribou> xnox: looking at it atm; the amount of 'corrupted' files is surprizing > 1000 in one file
[09:07] <xnox> caribou, it does look bad. The diff between the two is not encouraging.
[09:07] <xnox> i really hope it is not actually dpkg bug, but something/somewhere else that tries to parse status file. Because trivial precise debootstrap + upgrade did not reproduce this issue.
[09:08] <caribou> xnox: I'm looking at precise's code to get a hang of dpkg's workflow
[09:09] <xnox> the installation appears to be fairly bog standard: ubuntu-standard/minima/desktop
[09:10] <xnox> caribou, first step can you reproduce the issue reliably? E.g. bootstrap/install from .0 iso, or just release archive. Install ubuntu-desktop. Upgrade to latest dpkg, then upgrade the world, then spot broken status file.
[09:10] <xnox> if yes, buggy dpkg / libdpkg-perl or some such, otherwise something somewhere else.
[09:11] <caribou> xnox: that'd be the easy way out ;-) it happens in an environment where Landscape Dedicated Service is in use
[09:11] <xnox> caribou, wait a minute - does landscape-* stuff parses and/or writes and/or touches internal dpkg status file at all?
[09:11] <caribou> xnox: so the archive is not our public archive but an LDS provided one built with reprepro
[09:12] <xnox> is there a way to tell from the status files of any custom packages at all?
[09:12] <caribou> xnox: I wouldn't think so; the broken status file is at the receiving end (i.e. the client)
[09:12] <caribou> xnox: let me check on a few broken package
[09:12] <xnox> somehow i would have thought the problem would be spotted / be more widespread than just one deployment if it was dpkg.
[09:14] <xnox> however ubuntu-minimal description is borked.
[09:17] <caribou> xnox: I see 650 of them, all standard Ubuntu packages
[09:18] <caribou> xnox: http://paste.ubuntu.com/23077770/
[09:49] <caribou> xnox: FYI, the list I pasted is wrong, there are less corrupted packages than listed
[09:50] <xnox> caribou, i pasted a diff with a lot of context to the bug report.
[09:50] <xnox> it seems to show a few, and i guess we only need one package to be corrupted. E.g. "ubuntu-minimal" is corrupted.
[12:37] <flexiondotorg> I removed mate-hud from the ubuntu-mate-core seeds and meta package last week. It needs more time to bake.
[12:38] <flexiondotorg> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu-mate.yakkety/revision/113
[12:39] <flexiondotorg> But it is still being seeded via germinate and is present in todays daily-live ISO.
[12:39] <flexiondotorg> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu-mate.yakkety/core
[12:39] <flexiondotorg> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-mate-meta/+changelog
[12:39] <flexiondotorg> Have I overlooked something to ensure a package is no longer seeded in the Ubuntu MATE 16.10 images?
[12:44] <sitter> popey: anyone from snappy coming to akademy/qtcon and possibly staying for discussions (Sept 5-8)? should we register a time slot?
[12:47] <popey> sitter: i don't think there's snappy specific devs at qtcon/akademy. I think we do have *some* people going. Will find out who.
[12:55] <cjwatson> flexiondotorg: Bodged for now, but the problem is apparently that somebody deleted lp:~ubuntu-gnome-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu-gnome.vivid and that broke the update-seeds cron job.  Will need to investigate ...
[12:56] <cjwatson> (I might just push my latest version back up.  Old seed branches aren't supposed to be deleted.)
[12:56] <flexiondotorg> cjwatson, Thanks for the feedback.
[13:04] <sitter> popey: I also got asked by a colleague who's working on plasma mobile whether someone from the touch team might be at qtcon :)
[13:25] <Odd_Bloke> I'm comparing the initramfs of a cloud instance and of my laptop (both on the same xenial kernel); per lsinitramfs my laptop's contains fsck whereas the cloud instance does not.  I can't work out where this difference is coming from, having examined /{etc,usr/share}/initramfs-tools.  Where should I be looking to find it?
[13:26] <pitti> Odd_Bloke: presumably because cloud instances disable fscking in fstab?
[13:27] <pitti> Odd_Bloke: see /usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks/fsck
[13:28] <pitti> s/?// (I know that cloud-init disable fscking partitions, and rightly so)
[13:28] <pitti> cloud instances, I mean (not sure if it's actually cloud-init)
[13:28] <Odd_Bloke> Aha, right.
[13:29] <Odd_Bloke> OK, that makes sense.
[13:30] <Odd_Bloke> Thanks!
[13:51] <cjwatson> flexiondotorg: aha, I found https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gnome-dev/+junk/ubuntu-gnome.vivid.  No idea how it got there (I have an IP address for the change but that doesn't tell me a whole lot).  Moved back to https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gnome-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu-gnome.vivid where it belongs.
[13:57] <flexiondotorg> Thanks for that.
[15:00] <jbicha> cjwatson: I clicked the archive button for eol stuff at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gnome-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ but I didn't otherwise move branches
[15:00] <jbicha> sorry, not archive, I changed the branch status to "abandoned"
[15:01] <cjwatson> jbicha: Yeah, Abandoned is fine, but somebody also changed the branch target to "Personal".  I changed it back
[15:02] <jbicha> hmm, now that I think about it, that IP address might be familiar then but I don't remember what I might have clicked :(
[15:24] <slangasek> jamespage: ok, thanks :)
[15:25] <jamespage> slangasek, np - need to teach coreycb how todo that :-)
[15:25] <jamespage> but he's not around today
[15:25] <jamespage> ddellav, hey - I 'seeded' aodh and barbican packages - I'll grab you this week to explain how and what that means...
[15:29] <xnox> "C++11 requires a space between literal and string macro" c++ FTBFS of the day.
[15:50] <ddellav> jamespage ok, sounds good
[16:24] <seb128> Laney, pitti, do we have a tag for systemd user session bugs?
[16:26] <Laney> not that I know
[16:27] <seb128> hum, k
[16:27] <seb128> Laney, bug #1615726 just for info then
[16:27] <Laney> feel free to invent one
[16:30] <seb128> Laney, pitti, I tagged it systemd-user-session
[16:34] <Laney> seb128: close: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=systemd-session
[16:34] <Laney> :(
[16:34] <seb128> oh, urg, renaming it!
[16:35] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[16:39] <seb128> pitti, bug #1484027 seems to still be there/be back on xenial and yakkety, should I reopen that one or open a new bug?
[16:58] <seb128> k, enough for today, have a nice evening everyone!
[17:29] <pitti> seb128: right, I used that to correspond to our earlier systemd-boot tag
[17:34] <pitti> seb128: ah, and now I got the notification -- I'm subscribed to the tag
[17:34] <pitti> seb128: bonne soirée !
[17:34] <pitti> pour moi aussi
[17:45] <jbicha> cjwatson: I can confirm that germinate is working again for Ubuntu GNOME/yakkety
[18:14] <aladdin> Hi
[18:14] <aladdin> sorry to bother you
[18:15] <aladdin>  it is possible to install unity8 currently with Yakkety  daily from today ?
[18:15] <aladdin>  I got this error http://www.hastebin.com/jatizuraka.vhdl
[20:24] <cjwatson> jbicha: good good, thanks