daftykinshaha, my unix login to University still works, 8 years on02:08
daftykinsall my data is still there...02:09
moggers57how much space did they give you 8 years ago?02:56
daftykinsi actually can't find any evidence of a quota02:57
daftykinsalthough i've no idea of commands for that, seems it's become a RHEL host now02:57
moggers57start copying iso's up and see when it borks... :-P03:21
daftykinshah, i think technically it's wrong me even connecting in so nah i'm gonna leave it be03:22
daftykinsfound one of the techs still works there though, i could drop him an email and be all "wat"03:23
moggers57does the system not have an internal messaging option? :-)03:38
daftykinspff if CLI email exists i'm not touching it03:43
daftykinsi don't think that department had email o003:43
moggers57not email, a text message from one console to another on a server... surely linux has one...03:44
daftykinsoh like wall03:45
daftykinsthink that required root last i saw - i have no idea03:45
moggers57i should probably try and get my 4 hours of sleep now... o/03:49
daftykinsdream of rainbow postboxes by John Penfold (:03:51
moggers57oooo crumbs chief03:51
diploMorning all07:03
TwistedLuciditySteady now..07:58
davmor2Morning all you happy shiny people08:01
daftykins:D gm davmor2!08:05
SuperMattTwistedLucidity: are you saying I'm only allowed to enthusiasticly extend one arm?08:11
TwistedLucidityHealth and Safety, mate. Have you had the "Both arms in the air" training along with the certificate of "Bathing and deoderant use"?08:12
SuperMattthis is just health and safety gone mad! I should be allowed to do whatever I want08:12
TwistedLucidityTo be free who you want to be etc.08:13
SuperMattAnd if the spinning buzzsaws which make up the walls of this room cut off my arm, well that's your fault as an employer for making a dangerous work place08:13
TwistedLucidityThe buzzsaws were completely safe until you walked into them. You were offered the training but refused, we therefore have no liability.08:14
SuperMattFine, we'll just have to take this to a tribunal!08:14
TwistedLucidityOr....maybe we fitted the stop device that detects skin contact. Dare you to find out....08:14
SuperMattI think maybe I'll just take the training08:15
TwistedLucidityAnd, if anyone is curious, such a device does exist. It runs a small charge through the cutting blade, skin contact causes that to drop, the brake slams in & blade is retracted.08:15
TwistedLucidityRuins the machine, like08:15
davmor2TwistedLucidity: I think you mean "To be free, to do what I want, any old time"08:15
TwistedLuciditydavmor2: Don't you go telling me what I mean! I'm free to mean what I mean, man! STOP OPPRESSSING ME!08:16
* davmor2 hits the emergency stop button on the op press so TwistedLucidity stops shouting08:18
TwistedLucidityCaps lock is dodgy, but at least I fixedtheblastedspacebar.08:18
daftykinsWANT TO SWAP?08:19
davmor2oh wait there is no emergency stop button on the op press so it will have to keep oppressing you that's the way of life08:19
TwistedLucidityOppressed for life? Sounds like Darth May's endgame.08:30
TwistedLucidityOr maybe Baltimore Police's08:31
TwistedLucidityWhat's that up in the sky? Is it a plane? Is it a bird? Is it Superman? NO! It's a police drop doing 24/7 surveillance.08:31
JamesTaitGood morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Pluto Demoted Day! 😃 ♇08:49
daftykinsooh i bet that's been a few moons already by now08:49
davmor2JamesTait: pluto you say https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuhlhUi0O-I gotcha covered08:53
brobostigonmorning boys and girls.09:11
BigRedSGooood Morning!09:11
brobostigonmorning BigRedS09:15
BigRedSAh, morning!09:57
BigRedSHow's tricks?09:57
davmor2BigRedS: It's Magic but not a lot09:59
* daftykins debates doing more with the day10:01
diddledandaftykins: days should be avoided as much as possible. doing things with them is a bad idea12:11
davmor2daftykins: what the hell did day do to deserve you doing more with it12:12
daftykinsjust taken the short stroll along to Boots, oh my lord the outfits on these kids today O_O12:21
daftykinscan just imagine the poor parents12:22
moggers58in you day they wore respectable shell suits... :-P12:23
=== moggers58 is now known as moggers57
daftykinsfinest imports from Newcastle12:25
davmor2daftykins: they wore newky brown12:28
daftykinsfinest of beverages12:29
rixonHi there, IIRC there were some issues using dist-upgrade on some of the older versions... is this still a problem? we have an old 14.04 box we're considering upgrading to 16.04 - would it be better to just reformat and doa clean install?12:30
rixon*do a12:30
daftykinswhat does it do? 14.04 is LTS - why do you want to upgrade?12:31
daftykinsdist-upgrade incidentally doesn't mean upgrade between versions :)12:31
daftykinsit's the red herring of apt-get commands12:31
rixonso why does the motd suggest it is?12:31
daftykins"Run 'do-release-upgrade' to upgrade to it."12:32
daftykinsno it doesn't :)12:32
rixonhaha ok12:32
daftykinsso what does this system do?12:33
rixonit's a live web server with a mysql database and some high-traffic(well, ok maybe not 'high' but a fair amount) web applications for our clients...12:34
rixondo the older LTS still patch the recent gcc exploits and stuff?12:34
rixonI assume they still get security updates right?12:34
daftykinsyes they do12:34
daftykinsLTS would be a really bad name otherwise - Long Term Support12:35
rixonhm ok so maybe it's not so important to update12:35
daftykinsnope not even vaguely - a justified LTS upgrade would be for a desktop PC with bleeding edge hardware that needed the newer kernel and X.org12:35
rixonwell IMO support != security updates, support = well, you know... help.12:36
daftykinsboth come hand in hand12:36
BigRedSrixon: apt-get dist-upgrade is a part of the Debian way of upgrading between releases. do-release-upgrade is a Ubuntu tool that does that and all the prep you need to do on either side, which is probably where you got that from12:36
rixonright, ok thanks BigRedS12:36
* daftykins runs apt dist-upgrade on his ubuntu systems daily12:36
daftykinsbut yeah... after all, if you had a critical kernel bug, you'd want support for it, which'd come via a security update ;D12:37
BigRedSyeah, it really should be apt-get full-upgrade or something12:37
daftykins"apt full-upgrade" is the new one12:38
rixonwell we have an in-office dev server on 12.04 (oldest LTS?) and we're rebuilding & reformatting it anyway so we figured we'd just put 16.04 on it but my boss is thinking 'things will be in different places compared to our live 14.04 servers'12:39
daftykinshuge difference yes, because it'll go from thingy to systemd12:39
rixonas he's seen the root dir structure change between 11.x/12.x/14.x12:39
daftykinsdiddledan: thingy12:40
diddledanfrom upstart to systemd12:40
rixonah yes this systemd is something I've already had a little issue with, eth0=enp0s3, etc...12:40
* diddledan plays with daftykins' thingy12:40
daftykinsno that's the kernel change i think, totally separate12:40
BigRedSthe root dir structure? But, yeah, the init system changing's going to be the biggest difference. It'll boot faster and you'll have no idea what's going on between the kernel loading and your getting a login12:41
daftykinsmy plan is probably going to be to keep running 14.04 servers until 18.04 is out :)12:42
rixonhow long is 'long term' then? 5yr?12:42
lubotu3LTS means Long Term Support. Until 12.04 LTS versions of Ubuntu were supported for 3 years on the desktop, and 5 years on the server; since 12.04 (Precise Pangolin) LTS versions will be supported for 5 years on the desktop and server. The latest LTS version of Ubuntu is !Xenial (Xenial Xerus 16.04)12:42
daftykinskeep to 14.04 and put the saved effort into virtualising instead perhaps ;)12:43
popeyI moved all my machines bar one from 14.04 to 16.0412:44
popeyno real drama with any of them12:44
TwistedLucidityI need to upgrade my servers this weekend, but I also need to pick berries and make jam/liqeurs. Decisions....12:52
diddledanI vote jam12:52
daftykinsi can help with the QA of the latter \o12:52
TwistedLuciditydaftykins: This is experimental stuff...no idea what it will taste like in ~12 months.12:53
diddledangood quote: "The default assumption is that pull quotes on the web are fine, because everyone else is doing pull quotes on the web. But has anybody ever stopped to ask why? It was this same spiral of unexamined assumptions that led to the web drowning in a sea of splash pages in the early 2000s."12:53
TwistedLucidityThe sure phases are: all sweet alcohol; sweet fruit; paint stripper; nice.12:54
diddledanref: https://medium.com/@adactio/why-do-pull-quotes-exist-on-the-web-30e87e7773ab#.y7uq3hyc012:54
daftykinsTwistedLucidity: ah, then i promote diddledan to chief tester!12:54
* daftykins steps backwards a pace12:54
rixonso aside from eth0=enp0s3, and upstart/systemd... is there anything else major I need to be aware of?12:55
TwistedLucidityAnother skeuomorph, why do websites only use the middle quarter or my rather nice screen?12:55
rixonI think we're going to install 14.04 and virtualise 16.04 to tinker with12:55
popeyTwistedLucidity: that irritates me too12:56
diddledanTwistedLucidity: the assumption is that scanning the width of a 24inch screen is hard work12:56
daftykinsrixon: yes, not version number chasing - plus look at what versions of your companies' chosen web server, PHP version and any other items each release comes with to be sure you standardise on what you need for what you produce12:56
daftykinsmust say i rarely full screen a browser12:57
rixonyes this is the problem we're trying to get out of haha our live servers are 14.04 and our dev server is still 12.04, so we're going to 14.0412:58
moggers57only when i'm doing screenshots do i full screen a browser12:58
rixonthanks for the advice =) I'm already conscious of the Apache/PHP/MySQL versions12:59
daftykinsrixon: also, if you downloaded media (an ISO) for say 14.04.5 it'll have a different kernel to one that was installed from 14.04.3 for example12:59
daftykinsrixon: so i tend to always go 14.04.1 as that remains on the original 3.13 kernel but updates fine to still be the current release number, 14.04.512:59
daftykinsthat can be a little confusing too13:00
rixonhm is there a way I can find out what 14.04.x it was installed from? (it was set up before I was in this company)13:00
daftykinscheck the kernel "uname -r"13:01
rixonis ther a list of ubuntu release versions => kernel versions somewhere?13:01
daftykinsat this point i feel you and the wiki could become friends13:01
rixon'yes on the wiki' would have done ;P ok cheers13:02
rixonsorry I'll stop bugging you now13:02
daftykinsyeah i get called all sorts when i'm that blunt though :(13:02
rixonthat's not being blunt - I was asking if there was that information somewhere, and 'yes on the wiki' is a straight answer to what I was asking - sarcasm about being friends with a wiki is more blunt than a astraight answer13:03
daftykinsi disagree13:04
rixonwell fair enough you can disagree if you want to but I think most normal human beings think snarky sarcasm warrants you 'getting called all sorts' more than giving a straight answer13:06
* diddledan bops daftykins13:06
daftykinssee i don't know why anyone reads that as snarky sarcasm13:07
daftykinswhat a world we live in :/13:08
TwistedLucidityOh FFS. Just RTFM!!!!!111!!1!one13:08
* diddledan sounds the siren13:08
daftykinsTwistedLucidity: hear hear!13:08
diddledanwell that descended quickly13:08
popeyrixon: /var/log/installer should reveal what it was installed from13:10
rixonthanks popey13:27
diddledanaverage height13:31
daftykinsooh my, warmth but then thunder and now rain13:32
diddledanthis is nature's way of telling you that you should be in bed13:33
SebthreeBQM10HDdiddledan yay I worked on a email twice, a long  good email13:33
SebthreeBQM10HDand lost it both times!13:33
SebthreeBQM10HDboth versions13:33
foobarrydoes encryption slow down android? boot time, general usage?13:43
foobarryi know that encryption got enabled on my huld2 and it slows the boot time yby 90s13:43
daftykinswhich phone?13:46
daftykinsit probably differs by age13:46
popeynot noticable on my opx13:56
rixonnor my N6P14:09
=== pavlushka_ is now known as Guest58639
diddledanfun video (hour-long) where they carry-on regardless of technical issues: https://youtu.be/Sb7UmXhs32M14:17
diddledantis brian lunduke14:17
daftykinsoh hey it's the Matt that used to be on LAS14:17
daftykinsi remember digging deep to find out when and why he disappeared14:18
diddledanyeah I still haven't worked out what happened there14:18
daftykinsthe comments on that one seem a bit undecided too14:20
popeyi have been asked to be on one of them14:32
moggers57that sentence parses multiple ways...14:33
=== Guest58639 is now known as pavlushka
diddledanpopey: is there any kind of canonical requirements for appearing on other people's shows or are you allowed autonomy to show-up as part of "the community team"?14:36
moggers57leave his os/2 t-shirt at home... :-P14:36
popeythere are no such requirements14:37
diddledanI figured as much, based on my perceptions of canonical being an open company, but thought I'd ask as strict companies insist on certain things by contract when you start working for them14:38
rixonwow I just read that IBM still supported os/2 right up til December 2006... I thought it was dead long before that14:39
diddledanone such contractural thing I struggle reconciling with is that the company will own all inventions I make even if I make them outside of the work environment14:39
diddledanI guess a good candidate for job X would be able to negotiate on such points though...14:40
moggers57there was a recent release of os/2 updates14:40
moggers57like a good os it just won't die... :-)14:40
diddledanwhere's zmoylan-pi?14:40
daftykinshe's him!14:41
moggers57using a different handle as part of a joke in another channel14:41
diddledanwell that's messing with my head :-p14:41
rixonok this is winding me up now, I've got the ISO on USB and booted from it, installed, had a secureboot issue, tried again this time doing the 'integrity check' - I've checked the md5sum of the ISO, it's correct but once I've put it on a USB with rufus (and even unetbootin) and boot from it, 'check integrity' on it fails the check...14:44
daftykinsyou don't have to install EFI if the machine is legacy capable14:45
daftykinstry another drive if you can14:45
rixona different USB? do you think it could be bad?14:46
rixonhm ok14:46
daftykinsit's just the easiest approach14:47
rixondidn't have any write errors but I will try another14:47
daftykinsanother would be writing with a Loonix using dd or cp etc.14:47
daftykinsi don't think flash drives tend to give clues like that14:47
rixonrufus has a 'dd mode' and an 'iso mode' - the ubuntu wiki recommended iso mode14:48
daftykinsyeah i mean dd natively, as in terminal, but i've used dd mode from Windows just fine14:49
diddledanI recommend dd mode on the newer iso images14:49
daftykinsin fact as it writes contiguously i've found it faster, too14:49
rixondiddledan: it's 14.0414:49
daftykinsi'd recommend 14.04.114:49
diddledandon't you already have 14.04?14:49
rixonatm we have a formatted hdd14:50
* diddledan scratchy noodle14:50
rixondaftykins: what was teh reason for the old kernel preference in .1?14:52
rixonor better worded: for your preference of .1 for the old kernel14:52
daftykinsinstall from that image for all of them, maintain consistency14:53
daftykinsHWEs are in use with the later ones which could be a slight hassle in the future, depends14:53
daftykinsthe wiki page showing which comes with which covers it14:53
rixonisn't HWE for graphics stack?14:55
rixonwe're not interested in running X14:55
daftykinsplease look it up14:55
lubotu3The Ubuntu LTS enablement stacks provide newer kernel and X support for existing LTS releases, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack14:55
rixon < daftykins> the wiki page showing which comes with which covers it14:57
rixon^looking for this14:57
rixonoh i see14:58
rixonI must say I still don't really understand why you're suggesting to not have the newer kernel - what is this 'slight hassle in the future'?15:08
rixonOH is it because support ends and suggests going to 14.04.5 after this month?15:10
rixonin which case why not install
rixonthis isn't making much sense to me I'm afraid.15:11
diddledanhwe kernels have a shorter support lifecycle15:11
daftykinsfor the simplest life, 14.04.115:11
rixonI see that but support for 14.04.5 ends at the same time as 14.04.115:12
rixonon a newer kernel too15:13
daftykinswhich only matters for desktops really15:13
daftykinshonestly i've not been saying all this for a laugh :)15:14
rixonhaha I know I'm not saying you're pulling my leg I'm just having a hard time understanding why you're suggesting to pick an older kernel for the same amount of support as the newer one... why is it only a desktop matter?15:14
daftykinsbecause the gains in a newer kernel would typically be hardware support gains which are less relevant to servers15:16
rixonok thanks for putting up with me =)15:18
daftykinsbed for me o/15:20
diddledanit's.. early15:20
moggers57or very very very late15:21
rixonhaha yea15:21
rixonnot even home time yet15:21
rixonok so I'm still getting the same problem: I've tried both 14.04.4 and 14.04.1, both ISOs pass the md5 checksum but the in-installed integrity verification check fails. I've tried imaging the ISO with both rufus and unetbootin, both with the same results. The install appears to work anyway but then when I boot after installing I get an error with secureboot.15:51
rixonI've tried: 2 diffferent ISOs, 2 different imaging software, 2 different USB sticks...15:52
rixonsame result15:52
davmor2rixon: just run the disc check from the menu on the usb pen drive15:53
rixonyes it fails15:53
rixonthat's what I'm saying15:53
rixonthe md5 checksum of the ISO is correct, but once imaged to the USB and booted off - that check in the menu fails15:54
davmor2rixon: use disks to copy it you pendrive if you have an ubuntu system15:54
rixonuse disks?15:54
davmor2rixon: if you are on an Ubuntu system, tap the top icon and type in disks, in disks select the pen drive on the left, tap the top right icon and select format disk, and then restore disk image and select the iso15:57
davmor2rixon: I have no idea what rufus is doing to the iso15:57
rixonthe ubuntu wiki suggests to use rufus (i'm on windows)... also it's not just rufus - I've tried unetbootin as well15:58
diddledanrufus does weird mangling15:58
diddledanas does unetbootin15:58
rixonso why is it officially recommended?15:58
rixonI've never had trouble before with unetbootin15:58
davmor2rixon: because there aren't any decent burners on windows15:58
rixonwell that's just an inti-windows statement that isn't even true. I've not had problems doing this before with unetbootin or even the windows 7 installer disk imaging tool16:02
diddledanjust because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you16:03
diddledanit may be perceived as "anti windows" but it is still accurate16:04
davmor2rixon: no it's true you can get decent burns if you go out and install them, the better ones are paid for which is something we can't then recommend so we have to recommend free applications that do the job.  Those are obviously 2 that do it.16:05
davmor2rixon: What I mean is the one that is built in doesn't copy isos to pendrives well or we would recommend that one16:06
rixon... again that doesn't mean that "there aren't any decent burners on windows"16:06
rixonjust because they're not built in16:07
ali1234windows has a built in iso burner that works fine16:07
diddledanali1234: burning iso to usbstick16:07
ali1234well then i agree, windows does not have any decent tool for this16:08
davmor2ali1234: yeah burns isos to cd's fine not so good at transferring them to usb pendrive hence my statement that windows burner sucks16:08
ali1234but it isn't designed to do that16:08
rixon... again I wasn't suggesting that the windows built in ISO burner was the tool for the job. just because other software isn't built in to windows doesn't mean it doesn't exist16:09
ali1234rixon: the real reason why unetbootin is "officially" recommended is because the docs are painfully out of date16:09
rixonyou're saying there aren't any16:09
ali1234the isos didn't used to be bootable without mangling16:10
rixonali1234: I've installed 15.04 and 15.10 at home with unetbootin with no problems16:10
ali1234so we had to use unetbootin even on linux16:10
rixonit just seems to screw up this 14.04 image16:10
ali1234then around 2012 the isos were switched to hybridiso which do not require any mangling16:11
ali1234so now unetbootin maybe works, maybe it doesn't16:11
=== davmor2_ is now known as davmor2
ali1234where does /root/.bashrc come from on a debian system? it doesn't match /etc/skel/.bashrc20:36

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