[02:08] <daftykins> haha, my unix login to University still works, 8 years on
[02:09] <daftykins> all my data is still there...
[02:56] <moggers57> how much space did they give you 8 years ago?
[02:57] <daftykins> i actually can't find any evidence of a quota
[02:57] <daftykins> although i've no idea of commands for that, seems it's become a RHEL host now
[03:21] <moggers57> start copying iso's up and see when it borks... :-P
[03:22] <daftykins> hah, i think technically it's wrong me even connecting in so nah i'm gonna leave it be
[03:23] <daftykins> found one of the techs still works there though, i could drop him an email and be all "wat"
[03:38] <moggers57> does the system not have an internal messaging option? :-)
[03:43] <daftykins> pff if CLI email exists i'm not touching it
[03:43] <daftykins> i don't think that department had email o0
[03:44] <moggers57> not email, a text message from one console to another on a server... surely linux has one...
[03:45] <daftykins> oh like wall
[03:45] <daftykins> think that required root last i saw - i have no idea
[03:49] <moggers57> i should probably try and get my 4 hours of sleep now... o/
[03:50] <daftykins> gl!
[03:51] <daftykins> dream of rainbow postboxes by John Penfold (:
[03:51] <moggers57> oooo crumbs chief
[03:52] <daftykins> 8D
[04:17] <mapps> hi
[04:21] <daftykins> mornin'
[07:03] <diplo> Morning all
[07:04] <daftykins> g'morn
[07:54] <TwistedLucidity> o/
[07:57] <daftykins> \o
[07:57] <SuperMatt> \o/
[07:58] <TwistedLucidity> Steady now..
[08:01] <davmor2> Morning all you happy shiny people
[08:05] <daftykins> :D gm davmor2!
[08:11] <SuperMatt> TwistedLucidity: are you saying I'm only allowed to enthusiasticly extend one arm?
[08:12] <TwistedLucidity> Health and Safety, mate. Have you had the "Both arms in the air" training along with the certificate of "Bathing and deoderant use"?
[08:12] <SuperMatt> this is just health and safety gone mad! I should be allowed to do whatever I want
[08:13] <TwistedLucidity> To be free who you want to be etc.
[08:13] <SuperMatt> And if the spinning buzzsaws which make up the walls of this room cut off my arm, well that's your fault as an employer for making a dangerous work place
[08:14] <TwistedLucidity> The buzzsaws were completely safe until you walked into them. You were offered the training but refused, we therefore have no liability.
[08:14] <SuperMatt> Fine, we'll just have to take this to a tribunal!
[08:14] <TwistedLucidity> Or....maybe we fitted the stop device that detects skin contact. Dare you to find out....
[08:15] <SuperMatt> I think maybe I'll just take the training
[08:15] <TwistedLucidity> And, if anyone is curious, such a device does exist. It runs a small charge through the cutting blade, skin contact causes that to drop, the brake slams in & blade is retracted.
[08:15] <TwistedLucidity> Ruins the machine, like
[08:15] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: I think you mean "To be free, to do what I want, any old time"
[08:16] <TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Don't you go telling me what I mean! I'm free to mean what I mean, man! STOP OPPRESSSING ME!
[08:18]  * davmor2 hits the emergency stop button on the op press so TwistedLucidity stops shouting
[08:18] <TwistedLucidity> Caps lock is dodgy, but at least I fixedtheblastedspacebar.
[08:19] <daftykins> WANT TO SWAP?
[08:19] <davmor2> oh wait there is no emergency stop button on the op press so it will have to keep oppressing you that's the way of life
[08:30] <TwistedLucidity> Oppressed for life? Sounds like Darth May's endgame.
[08:31] <TwistedLucidity> Or maybe Baltimore Police's
[08:31] <TwistedLucidity> What's that up in the sky? Is it a plane? Is it a bird? Is it Superman? NO! It's a police drop doing 24/7 surveillance.
[08:31] <TwistedLucidity> s/drop/drone
[08:49] <JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Pluto Demoted Day! 😃 ♇
[08:49] <daftykins> ooh i bet that's been a few moons already by now
[08:53] <davmor2> JamesTait: pluto you say https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuhlhUi0O-I gotcha covered
[09:11] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:11] <BigRedS> Gooood Morning!
[09:15] <brobostigon> morning BigRedS
[09:57] <BigRedS> Ah, morning!
[09:57] <BigRedS> How's tricks?
[09:59] <davmor2> BigRedS: It's Magic but not a lot
[10:00] <BigRedS> haha
[10:01]  * daftykins debates doing more with the day
[12:11] <diddledan> daftykins: days should be avoided as much as possible. doing things with them is a bad idea
[12:12] <davmor2> daftykins: what the hell did day do to deserve you doing more with it
[12:21] <daftykins> XD
[12:21] <daftykins> just taken the short stroll along to Boots, oh my lord the outfits on these kids today O_O
[12:22] <daftykins> can just imagine the poor parents
[12:23] <moggers58> in you day they wore respectable shell suits... :-P
[12:25] <daftykins> exactly"
[12:25] <daftykins> *!
[12:25] <daftykins> GOLA!
[12:25] <daftykins> finest imports from Newcastle
[12:28] <davmor2> daftykins: they wore newky brown
[12:29] <daftykins> finest of beverages
[12:30] <rixon> Hi there, IIRC there were some issues using dist-upgrade on some of the older versions... is this still a problem? we have an old 14.04 box we're considering upgrading to 16.04 - would it be better to just reformat and doa clean install?
[12:30] <rixon> *do a
[12:31] <daftykins> what does it do? 14.04 is LTS - why do you want to upgrade?
[12:31] <daftykins> dist-upgrade incidentally doesn't mean upgrade between versions :)
[12:31] <daftykins> it's the red herring of apt-get commands
[12:31] <rixon> so why does the motd suggest it is?
[12:31] <rixon> lol
[12:32] <daftykins> "Run 'do-release-upgrade' to upgrade to it."
[12:32] <daftykins> no it doesn't :)
[12:32] <rixon> ah
[12:32] <rixon> haha ok
[12:33] <daftykins> so what does this system do?
[12:34] <rixon> it's a live web server with a mysql database and some high-traffic(well, ok maybe not 'high' but a fair amount) web applications for our clients...
[12:34] <rixon> do the older LTS still patch the recent gcc exploits and stuff?
[12:34] <rixon> I assume they still get security updates right?
[12:34] <daftykins> yes they do
[12:35] <daftykins> LTS would be a really bad name otherwise - Long Term Support
[12:35] <rixon> hm ok so maybe it's not so important to update
[12:35] <daftykins> nope not even vaguely - a justified LTS upgrade would be for a desktop PC with bleeding edge hardware that needed the newer kernel and X.org
[12:36] <rixon> well IMO support != security updates, support = well, you know... help.
[12:36] <daftykins> both come hand in hand
[12:36] <BigRedS> rixon: apt-get dist-upgrade is a part of the Debian way of upgrading between releases. do-release-upgrade is a Ubuntu tool that does that and all the prep you need to do on either side, which is probably where you got that from
[12:36] <rixon> right, ok thanks BigRedS
[12:36]  * daftykins runs apt dist-upgrade on his ubuntu systems daily
[12:37] <daftykins> but yeah... after all, if you had a critical kernel bug, you'd want support for it, which'd come via a security update ;D
[12:37] <rixon> ok...
[12:37] <BigRedS> yeah, it really should be apt-get full-upgrade or something
[12:38] <daftykins> "apt full-upgrade" is the new one
[12:39] <rixon> well we have an in-office dev server on 12.04 (oldest LTS?) and we're rebuilding & reformatting it anyway so we figured we'd just put 16.04 on it but my boss is thinking 'things will be in different places compared to our live 14.04 servers'
[12:39] <daftykins> huge difference yes, because it'll go from thingy to systemd
[12:39] <rixon> as he's seen the root dir structure change between 11.x/12.x/14.x
[12:40] <diddledan> upstart
[12:40] <daftykins> diddledan: thingy
[12:40] <daftykins> :D
[12:40] <diddledan> from upstart to systemd
[12:40] <diddledan> :-p
[12:40] <rixon> ah yes this systemd is something I've already had a little issue with, eth0=enp0s3, etc...
[12:40]  * diddledan plays with daftykins' thingy
[12:40] <daftykins> no that's the kernel change i think, totally separate
[12:41] <BigRedS> the root dir structure? But, yeah, the init system changing's going to be the biggest difference. It'll boot faster and you'll have no idea what's going on between the kernel loading and your getting a login
[12:42] <daftykins> my plan is probably going to be to keep running 14.04 servers until 18.04 is out :)
[12:42] <rixon> how long is 'long term' then? 5yr?
[12:42] <daftykins> !lts
[12:42] <rixon> hm
[12:43] <daftykins> keep to 14.04 and put the saved effort into virtualising instead perhaps ;)
[12:44] <popey> I moved all my machines bar one from 14.04 to 16.04
[12:44] <popey> no real drama with any of them
[12:52] <TwistedLucidity> I need to upgrade my servers this weekend, but I also need to pick berries and make jam/liqeurs. Decisions....
[12:52] <diddledan> I vote jam
[12:52] <daftykins> i can help with the QA of the latter \o
[12:53] <TwistedLucidity> daftykins: This is experimental stuff...no idea what it will taste like in ~12 months.
[12:53] <diddledan> good quote: "The default assumption is that pull quotes on the web are fine, because everyone else is doing pull quotes on the web. But has anybody ever stopped to ask why? It was this same spiral of unexamined assumptions that led to the web drowning in a sea of splash pages in the early 2000s."
[12:54] <TwistedLucidity> The sure phases are: all sweet alcohol; sweet fruit; paint stripper; nice.
[12:54] <diddledan> ref: https://medium.com/@adactio/why-do-pull-quotes-exist-on-the-web-30e87e7773ab#.y7uq3hyc0
[12:54] <daftykins> TwistedLucidity: ah, then i promote diddledan to chief tester!
[12:54]  * daftykins steps backwards a pace
[12:55] <rixon> so aside from eth0=enp0s3, and upstart/systemd... is there anything else major I need to be aware of?
[12:55] <TwistedLucidity> Another skeuomorph, why do websites only use the middle quarter or my rather nice screen?
[12:55] <rixon> I think we're going to install 14.04 and virtualise 16.04 to tinker with
[12:56] <popey> TwistedLucidity: that irritates me too
[12:56] <diddledan> TwistedLucidity: the assumption is that scanning the width of a 24inch screen is hard work
[12:56] <daftykins> rixon: yes, not version number chasing - plus look at what versions of your companies' chosen web server, PHP version and any other items each release comes with to be sure you standardise on what you need for what you produce
[12:57] <daftykins> must say i rarely full screen a browser
[12:58] <rixon> yes this is the problem we're trying to get out of haha our live servers are 14.04 and our dev server is still 12.04, so we're going to 14.04
[12:58] <moggers57> only when i'm doing screenshots do i full screen a browser
[12:59] <rixon> thanks for the advice =) I'm already conscious of the Apache/PHP/MySQL versions
[12:59] <daftykins> rixon: also, if you downloaded media (an ISO) for say 14.04.5 it'll have a different kernel to one that was installed from 14.04.3 for example
[12:59] <daftykins> rixon: so i tend to always go 14.04.1 as that remains on the original 3.13 kernel but updates fine to still be the current release number, 14.04.5
[13:00] <daftykins> that can be a little confusing too
[13:00] <rixon> hm is there a way I can find out what 14.04.x it was installed from? (it was set up before I was in this company)
[13:01] <daftykins> check the kernel "uname -r"
[13:01] <rixon> is ther a list of ubuntu release versions => kernel versions somewhere?
[13:01] <daftykins> at this point i feel you and the wiki could become friends
[13:02] <rixon> 'yes on the wiki' would have done ;P ok cheers
[13:02] <rixon> sorry I'll stop bugging you now
[13:02] <rixon> =)
[13:02] <rixon> thanks
[13:02] <daftykins> yeah i get called all sorts when i'm that blunt though :(
[13:03] <rixon> that's not being blunt - I was asking if there was that information somewhere, and 'yes on the wiki' is a straight answer to what I was asking - sarcasm about being friends with a wiki is more blunt than a astraight answer
[13:03] <rixon> :P
[13:04] <daftykins> i disagree
[13:06] <rixon> well fair enough you can disagree if you want to but I think most normal human beings think snarky sarcasm warrants you 'getting called all sorts' more than giving a straight answer
[13:06]  * diddledan bops daftykins
[13:07] <daftykins> see i don't know why anyone reads that as snarky sarcasm
[13:08] <daftykins> what a world we live in :/
[13:08] <TwistedLucidity> Oh FFS. Just RTFM!!!!!111!!1!one
[13:08]  * diddledan sounds the siren
[13:08] <daftykins> TwistedLucidity: hear hear!
[13:08] <TwistedLucidity> LOL
[13:08] <diddledan> well that descended quickly
[13:10] <popey> rixon: /var/log/installer should reveal what it was installed from
[13:27] <rixon> thanks popey
[13:29] <SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
[13:29] <daftykins> lo
[13:31] <diddledan> average height
[13:32] <daftykins> ooh my, warmth but then thunder and now rain
[13:32] <diddledan> yey
[13:33] <diddledan> this is nature's way of telling you that you should be in bed
[13:33] <SebthreeBQM10HD> diddledan yay I worked on a email twice, a long  good email
[13:33] <SebthreeBQM10HD> and lost it both times!
[13:33] <SebthreeBQM10HD> both versions
[13:43] <foobarry> does encryption slow down android? boot time, general usage?
[13:43] <foobarry> i know that encryption got enabled on my huld2 and it slows the boot time yby 90s
[13:46] <daftykins> which phone?
[13:46] <daftykins> it probably differs by age
[13:56] <popey> not noticable on my opx
[14:09] <rixon> nor my N6P
[14:17] <diddledan> fun video (hour-long) where they carry-on regardless of technical issues: https://youtu.be/Sb7UmXhs32M
[14:17] <diddledan> tis brian lunduke
[14:17] <daftykins> oh hey it's the Matt that used to be on LAS
[14:17] <diddledan> yup
[14:18] <daftykins> i remember digging deep to find out when and why he disappeared
[14:18] <diddledan> yeah I still haven't worked out what happened there
[14:20] <daftykins> the comments on that one seem a bit undecided too
[14:32] <popey> i have been asked to be on one of them
[14:33] <moggers57> that sentence parses multiple ways...
[14:36] <diddledan> popey: is there any kind of canonical requirements for appearing on other people's shows or are you allowed autonomy to show-up as part of "the community team"?
[14:36] <moggers57> leave his os/2 t-shirt at home... :-P
[14:37] <popey> there are no such requirements
[14:37] <diddledan> \o/
[14:38] <diddledan> I figured as much, based on my perceptions of canonical being an open company, but thought I'd ask as strict companies insist on certain things by contract when you start working for them
[14:39] <rixon> wow I just read that IBM still supported os/2 right up til December 2006... I thought it was dead long before that
[14:39] <diddledan> one such contractural thing I struggle reconciling with is that the company will own all inventions I make even if I make them outside of the work environment
[14:40] <diddledan> I guess a good candidate for job X would be able to negotiate on such points though...
[14:40] <moggers57> there was a recent release of os/2 updates
[14:40] <moggers57> like a good os it just won't die... :-)
[14:40] <diddledan> where's zmoylan-pi?
[14:41] <moggers57> o/
[14:41] <daftykins> he's him!
[14:41] <diddledan> oh
[14:41] <moggers57> using a different handle as part of a joke in another channel
[14:41] <diddledan> well that's messing with my head :-p
[14:44] <rixon> ok this is winding me up now, I've got the ISO on USB and booted from it, installed, had a secureboot issue, tried again this time doing the 'integrity check' - I've checked the md5sum of the ISO, it's correct but once I've put it on a USB with rufus (and even unetbootin) and boot from it, 'check integrity' on it fails the check...
[14:45] <daftykins> you don't have to install EFI if the machine is legacy capable
[14:45] <daftykins> try another drive if you can
[14:46] <rixon> a different USB? do you think it could be bad?
[14:46] <rixon> hm ok
[14:47] <daftykins> it's just the easiest approach
[14:47] <rixon> didn't have any write errors but I will try another
[14:47] <daftykins> another would be writing with a Loonix using dd or cp etc.
[14:47] <daftykins> i don't think flash drives tend to give clues like that
[14:48] <rixon> rufus has a 'dd mode' and an 'iso mode' - the ubuntu wiki recommended iso mode
[14:49] <daftykins> yeah i mean dd natively, as in terminal, but i've used dd mode from Windows just fine
[14:49] <rixon> oic
[14:49] <diddledan> I recommend dd mode on the newer iso images
[14:49] <daftykins> in fact as it writes contiguously i've found it faster, too
[14:49] <rixon> diddledan: it's 14.04
[14:49] <rixon> (.4)
[14:49] <daftykins> i'd recommend 14.04.1
[14:49] <diddledan> don't you already have 14.04?
[14:50] <rixon> atm we have a formatted hdd
[14:50] <rixon> lol
[14:50] <diddledan> o_O
[14:50]  * diddledan scratchy noodle
[14:50] <daftykins> http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/14.04.1/
[14:52] <rixon> daftykins: what was teh reason for the old kernel preference in .1?
[14:52] <rixon> *the
[14:52] <rixon> or better worded: for your preference of .1 for the old kernel
[14:53] <daftykins> install from that image for all of them, maintain consistency
[14:53] <daftykins> HWEs are in use with the later ones which could be a slight hassle in the future, depends
[14:53] <daftykins> the wiki page showing which comes with which covers it
[14:55] <rixon> isn't HWE for graphics stack?
[14:55] <rixon> we're not interested in running X
[14:55] <daftykins> please look it up
[14:55] <daftykins> !hwe
[14:57] <rixon>  < daftykins> the wiki page showing which comes with which covers it
[14:57] <rixon> ^looking for this
[14:58] <rixon> oh i see
[14:58] <rixon> ok
[15:08] <rixon> I must say I still don't really understand why you're suggesting to not have the newer kernel - what is this 'slight hassle in the future'?
[15:10] <rixon> OH is it because support ends and suggests going to 14.04.5 after this month?
[15:11] <rixon> in which case why not install 14.0.4.5?
[15:11] <rixon> this isn't making much sense to me I'm afraid.
[15:11] <diddledan> hwe kernels have a shorter support lifecycle
[15:11] <daftykins> for the simplest life, 14.04.1
[15:12] <rixon> I see that but support for 14.04.5 ends at the same time as 14.04.1
[15:13] <rixon> on a newer kernel too
[15:13] <daftykins> which only matters for desktops really
[15:14] <daftykins> honestly i've not been saying all this for a laugh :)
[15:14] <rixon> haha I know I'm not saying you're pulling my leg I'm just having a hard time understanding why you're suggesting to pick an older kernel for the same amount of support as the newer one... why is it only a desktop matter?
[15:16] <daftykins> because the gains in a newer kernel would typically be hardware support gains which are less relevant to servers
[15:16] <rixon> oh
[15:18] <rixon> ok thanks for putting up with me =)
[15:20] <daftykins> bed for me o/
[15:20] <diddledan> :-o
[15:20] <diddledan> it's.. early
[15:21] <moggers57> or very very very late
[15:21] <rixon> haha yea
[15:21] <rixon> not even home time yet
[15:51] <rixon> ok so I'm still getting the same problem: I've tried both 14.04.4 and 14.04.1, both ISOs pass the md5 checksum but the in-installed integrity verification check fails. I've tried imaging the ISO with both rufus and unetbootin, both with the same results. The install appears to work anyway but then when I boot after installing I get an error with secureboot.
[15:51] <rixon> *in-installer
[15:52] <rixon> I've tried: 2 diffferent ISOs, 2 different imaging software, 2 different USB sticks...
[15:52] <rixon> same result
[15:53] <davmor2> rixon: just run the disc check from the menu on the usb pen drive
[15:53] <rixon> yes it fails
[15:53] <rixon> that's what I'm saying
[15:54] <rixon> the md5 checksum of the ISO is correct, but once imaged to the USB and booted off - that check in the menu fails
[15:54] <davmor2> rixon: use disks to copy it you pendrive if you have an ubuntu system
[15:54] <rixon> use disks?
[15:57] <davmor2> rixon: if you are on an Ubuntu system, tap the top icon and type in disks, in disks select the pen drive on the left, tap the top right icon and select format disk, and then restore disk image and select the iso
[15:57] <davmor2> rixon: I have no idea what rufus is doing to the iso
[15:58] <rixon> the ubuntu wiki suggests to use rufus (i'm on windows)... also it's not just rufus - I've tried unetbootin as well
[15:58] <diddledan> rufus does weird mangling
[15:58] <diddledan> as does unetbootin
[15:58] <rixon> so why is it officially recommended?
[15:58] <rixon> haha
[15:58] <rixon> I've never had trouble before with unetbootin
[15:58] <davmor2> rixon: because there aren't any decent burners on windows
[16:02] <rixon> well that's just an inti-windows statement that isn't even true. I've not had problems doing this before with unetbootin or even the windows 7 installer disk imaging tool
[16:02] <rixon> *anti
[16:03] <diddledan> just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you
[16:04] <diddledan> it may be perceived as "anti windows" but it is still accurate
[16:05] <davmor2> rixon: no it's true you can get decent burns if you go out and install them, the better ones are paid for which is something we can't then recommend so we have to recommend free applications that do the job.  Those are obviously 2 that do it.
[16:06] <davmor2> rixon: What I mean is the one that is built in doesn't copy isos to pendrives well or we would recommend that one
[16:06] <rixon> ... again that doesn't mean that "there aren't any decent burners on windows"
[16:07] <rixon> just because they're not built in
[16:07] <ali1234> wat
[16:07] <ali1234> windows has a built in iso burner that works fine
[16:07] <diddledan> ali1234: burning iso to usbstick
[16:07] <ali1234> oh
[16:08] <ali1234> well then i agree, windows does not have any decent tool for this
[16:08] <davmor2> ali1234: yeah burns isos to cd's fine not so good at transferring them to usb pendrive hence my statement that windows burner sucks
[16:08] <ali1234> yeah
[16:08] <ali1234> but it isn't designed to do that
[16:09] <rixon> ... again I wasn't suggesting that the windows built in ISO burner was the tool for the job. just because other software isn't built in to windows doesn't mean it doesn't exist
[16:09] <ali1234> rixon: the real reason why unetbootin is "officially" recommended is because the docs are painfully out of date
[16:09] <rixon> you're saying there aren't any
[16:10] <ali1234> the isos didn't used to be bootable without mangling
[16:10] <rixon> ali1234: I've installed 15.04 and 15.10 at home with unetbootin with no problems
[16:10] <ali1234> so we had to use unetbootin even on linux
[16:10] <rixon> it just seems to screw up this 14.04 image
[16:11] <ali1234> then around 2012 the isos were switched to hybridiso which do not require any mangling
[16:11] <ali1234> so now unetbootin maybe works, maybe it doesn't
[16:12] <rixon> hm
[20:36] <ali1234> where does /root/.bashrc come from on a debian system? it doesn't match /etc/skel/.bashrc