[09:19] <sakrecoer> i am up for that autumna ! excellent motivation!
[09:19] <sakrecoer> the font manager issue is bothering me a lot.. its a small yet almost crucial piece in the graphics workflow...
[09:20] <sakrecoer> i'm willing the call the workflow broken without it. at least any graphic work with typography
[09:22] <sakrecoer> of course its still possible to work wthout it, but it gets annoying without it if there are +1000 fontd in the system, and i think we have +1200
[09:36] <autumna> sakrecoer: I agree. well you can package that and I can try to see if I can get krita to work, although I should probably make sure I can build krita first. 
[09:57]  * sakrecoer looks at the mountain of knowledge he has to ingurgitate
[09:57] <sakrecoer> i will try my best.. font-manager will require an SRU... 
[09:58] <autumna> SRU?
[09:58] <sakrecoer> stable release upgrade
[09:58] <sakrecoer> so that it reaches 16.04 users too..
[09:58] <autumna> ah
[09:59] <sakrecoer> nobody has the patience to wait for the fonts to load..
[09:59] <autumna> yeah well, I also thought the thing crashed that first time
[09:59] <sakrecoer> it works, but not as it should. that id a lot faster
[10:00] <autumna> *nods*
[10:00] <autumna> I'll need a bit of time to fix my setup before I can do the packaging. what is the deadline to get krita into yakkety?
[10:00] <autumna> or is that even possible?
[10:10] <sakrecoer> yesterday? .. we will need some exception and a sponsor..
[10:10] <sakrecoer> more like 2 weeks ago tbh.. but i think it is doable  
[10:11] <autumna> *is nervous*
[10:11] <sakrecoer> maybe you should join #kubuntu-devel and look if you can team up efforts
[10:11] <autumna> sure
[10:12] <sakrecoer> not sure how it would be best done tbh..
[10:15] <autumna> we'll figure it out while doing it? right now what I am going to do first, is to re-read this manual, and figure what I need to put into my VM to build krita
[10:15] <autumna> then figure out if I CAN build krita
[10:15] <autumna> once that happens
[10:15] <autumna> then I can ask for help
[10:16] <sakrecoer> sounds like a fair plan :)
[10:16] <autumna> what is the issue with the non-free things through? do you know?
[10:16] <autumna> I saw the IRC chat between you and zequence and others but I am a bit lost. 
[10:17] <sakrecoer> something with the new qt.. not too clear either..
[10:17] <sakrecoer> if i got it right, something with new qt don't conply with debian policy..
[10:17] <sakrecoer> *comply..
[10:18] <sakrecoer> but yeah, as usual, information about such things, when comming from me, needs doublechecking :/
[10:19] <autumna> ok maybe I should begin by joining kubuntu-devel
[10:20] <sakrecoer> be considerate, i know you will, but i know they are kindof stressed atm...
[10:20] <sakrecoer> so, just saying :)
[10:21] <autumna> when I am not considerate? :D but thanks for the heads up
[10:21] <sakrecoer> well.. 'stresed' is a big word, but they hada game stopper during betaq..
[10:22] <sakrecoer> beta1*
[10:22] <autumna> oh no
[13:54] <OvenWerks> autumna: there is qt and there is qt... Our repos already do have qt 5.5, but maybe krita got acidently built against the non-free version.
[13:55] <OvenWerks> It would seem to me that should not be that hard to fix, but it may be that the free and non-free versions of qt have different numbers.
[13:57] <OvenWerks> autumna: there is qt and there is qt... Our repos already do have  qt 5.5, but maybe krita got acidently built against the non-free  version.
[13:57] <autumna> hi (fyi ovenwerks if you just said before the last line I probably missed it, IRC setup hiccup)
[13:58] <sakrecoer> 15:53 < OvenWerks> autumna: there is qt and there is qt... Our repos already  do have qt 5.5, but maybe krita got acidently built  against the non-free version.
[13:58] <sakrecoer> 15:55 < OvenWerks> It would seem to me that should not be that hard to fix,  but it may be that the free and non-free versions of qt  have different numbers.
[13:58] <autumna> ah
[13:59] <autumna> thanks OvenWerks (and thanks sakrecoer)
[14:07] <autumna> brb
[14:14] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks, is it an option to package something in ubuntustudio, while waiting for it to get to debian? i understand it is what we will do with numix, but would it work for apps like font-manager or krita?
[14:22] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: what might be an option is to see if the package in 16.04 would just work in 16.10 and repackage that.
[14:22] <OvenWerks> qt4 has not gone away.
[14:23]  * autumna tries to catch up to the conversation
[14:24] <OvenWerks> in other words use krita 2.9.7
[14:25] <autumna> OvenWerks if that works, it would be a good backup
[14:25] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: that could be an option.. for fontmanager it isn't: the version in ubuntu and debian are years old..
[14:25] <autumna> while we sort this problem out
[14:25] <OvenWerks> that may not work if some of the other kde bits have advanced too far. I don't know the whole dependancy chain.
[14:26] <sakrecoer> well... old is not the problem.. its pretty broken..
[14:26] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: I was talking about krita in this case.
[14:26] <OvenWerks> fontmanager is different.
[14:27] <sakrecoer> yeah.. sorry.. my bad for mentioning both i my question
[14:27] <OvenWerks> fontmanager may be suffering bitrot.
[14:28] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: the one in debain and ubuntu is, but it is actively developed upstream
[14:28] <OvenWerks> so it needs someone in debian to do something.
[14:30] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: so packaging it for ubuntu is not an option? that means it will be ready for 17.04, right?
[14:31] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/font-manager/+bug/1579536
[14:31] <OvenWerks> font manager bangs one of my core to 100% while loading. It is not taking 20 mins... we have 0.5.7
[14:31] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: you trying it on 16.10?
[14:31] <OvenWerks> it only took 2 or 3 minutes to load here
[14:31] <OvenWerks> 04.
[14:31] <sakrecoer> current fontmanager from devs personal ppa is 0.7.2 
[14:32] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: really? with all fonts installed?
[14:32] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: whatever Studio comes with.
[14:32] <sakrecoer> ok...
[14:32] <sakrecoer> right
[14:33] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: its not the first time you load the fonts right?
[14:33] <sakrecoer> the second time it works better, but try install a new font and see what happens
[14:34] <OvenWerks> I don't recall having run it before since install.
[14:34] <sakrecoer> i think you checked when i reppoerted the bug, but i might be not recal correctly..
[14:35] <sakrecoer> and maybe you have resintalled since then :)
[14:35] <OvenWerks> But really, the repo should be kept up with the devs site.
[14:35] <sakrecoer> you mean the debian repo?
[14:35] <OvenWerks> Has a bug been added to debian's packge to upgrade?
[14:37] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: have you tried the newer fontmanager from the ppa? does it solve the problem?
[14:37] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: yes
[14:37] <sakrecoer> it solves the problem
[14:37] <OvenWerks> Then the bug for debian to upgrade should include that info.
[14:38] <sakrecoer> i mean this ppa: https://launchpad.net/font-manager
[14:38] <sakrecoer> and it adds features!
[14:38] <sakrecoer> for example it reads the super weird mac font format..
[14:38] <sakrecoer> and it enables those files for use with all software.
[14:39] <OvenWerks> At this point we get into politics :)
[14:39] <sakrecoer> really?
[14:39] <sakrecoer> its not the only new feature though
[14:40] <OvenWerks> but we need to ask if we can take the source package from that ppa and use it in the ubuntu repo till debian gets thgeir act together
[14:40] <sakrecoer> ok, who do we ask?
[14:41] <OvenWerks> perhaps run it through lintian to see if there are any debian probalems with policy and repackage for debian too if no one else will.
[14:41] <OvenWerks> autumna: font manager may be a good place to start with packaging seeing as someone already has done most of the work.
[14:42] <autumna> OvenWerks: I was planning to let sakrecoer do that
[14:42] <OvenWerks> :)
[14:42] <autumna> since I already have a package in mind that is easier, if krita turns out of to be problematic
[14:42] <OvenWerks> cool
[14:42] <autumna> (godot, is supposed to be VERY easy to build)
[14:42] <autumna> (and has very few dependencies which probably means less problem with policy)
[14:44] <autumna> OvenWerks I did miss a good portion of what you were saying earlier. was the leaving the old version of krita a backup solution? or were you suggesting that we might not be able to get 3.0 in?
[14:45] <OvenWerks> autumna: I was saying put the old version in if we can.
[14:45] <autumna> I see
[14:46] <autumna> well I assumed that old version was breaking the iso which started all this but.. *shrugs* 
[14:47] <OvenWerks> the problem I see is that it requires calligra-libs = 2.9.7
[14:47] <OvenWerks> which means exact
[14:48] <OvenWerks> but then it was those libs that were the problem? so backing off on those might be a good idea too.
[14:51] <OvenWerks> Next question, there are no other applications that do what krita does?
[14:51] <autumna> OvenWerks not really no 
[14:52] <OvenWerks> Well all of my thoughts are from someone who's understanding of packaging is close to nil.
[14:52] <autumna> MyPaint is great lightweight software but it is for sketching, not finished work. Krita has tons of features that it doesn't has, such as effect layers, 32bit images etc (actually I would almost say krita is better in some image tasks at the moment than even gimp is)
[14:53] <autumna> OvenWerks it still is helpful
[14:56] <autumna> but yeah basically missing krita, is a bit like audio-meta missing ardour, for graphics :D
[14:58] <sakrecoer> krita is the ony picture software we have that supports cmyk..
[14:58] <sakrecoer> ..and missing font-manager is like missing qjackctl :D
[14:58] <OvenWerks> cinepaint seems to be dying
[14:58] <sakrecoer> (almost)
[15:00] <autumna> heh
[15:00] <autumna> OvenWerks: I think gimp is supposed to get features that cinepaint brings, if i understand correctly
[15:00] <OvenWerks> so they are both crtical then. Who is the person who packaged the last font manager in debian? are they still around/interested?
[15:01] <OvenWerks> autumna: I thought cinepaint came into being because gimp didn't want that.
[15:02] <OvenWerks> but maybe as 4k monitors get cheap (and memory) that has changed.
[15:02] <autumna> OvenWerks: I know they intend to support 32bit images on next version
[15:03] <autumna> I mean I THINK they do if I understood the roadmap on the wiki correctly
[15:04] <OvenWerks> does gimp support a stream of images in a directory (individual video frames) the way cinepaint does?
[15:05] <autumna> define support?
[15:05] <autumna> as in support modifying them in batch?
[15:06] <OvenWerks> :) I can't really, I just remember it being mentioned as one of the differences from one to the other.
[15:07] <autumna> gimp doesn't allow batch editing by default, but there is a plugin that does it quite well. (which requires building unfortunately) 
[15:07] <OvenWerks> remember, I am not a graphics video person... I just remember stuff I read once.
[15:12] <autumna> ;)
[15:13] <autumna> sorry just curiosity
[15:13] <autumna> OvenWerks I remember somebody linking a list of all packages in ubuntustudio. do you remember where it was?
[15:15] <autumna> nevermind just found it
[15:16] <OvenWerks> no, I don't. I do see a file in the same directory as the download.
[15:16] <OvenWerks> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/dvd/current/yakkety-dvd-amd64.manifest
[15:19] <OvenWerks> There are a lot of k5 things in there.
[15:20] <OvenWerks> I wonder if the old krita might be kept alive by making it a snap package?
[15:20]  * OvenWerks still misses GCDMaster
[15:21] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: there is a snap version, but snap breaks for people using nvidia... so krita via snaps + nvidia drivers = broken
[15:22] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: and someone doing graphics/video is more likely to have a graphics card nicer than thge MB intel ;)
[15:23] <sakrecoer> yes
[15:23] <OvenWerks> Someone who is Audio will probably use the MB intel on purpose just because it breaks the least things.
[15:23] <sakrecoer> and we would have to investigate into how to ship snaps with the iso...
[15:24] <sakrecoer> i was about to say, someone doing Audio will probably want to have soundcard, to have enough in an out puts... but what do i know?
[15:25] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: these days, some one doing audio with a small buget will probably want to buy a new USB card...
[15:25] <autumna> I think they fixed the snap issue for one version of nvidia driver 340 but yeah the bug persists overall. 
[15:25] <sakrecoer> i mean, someone doing graphics for fun and editing holliday video in opoesnhot is also more likely to use MB... for someone with a higher ambition will look into equipment
[15:26] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: yeah, i guess so :)
[15:28] <OvenWerks> MB USB do not do low latency audio well. http://crimeandtheforcesofevil.com/blog/2016/07/25/so-hey-usb-chipsets-totally-matter/
[15:32] <sakrecoer> i'm desperatly looking for the tool to get debian sources wiht ubuntu..
[15:32] <OvenWerks> This is what people found with firewire audio too... except in that case a bad chipset just didn't work at all. I think as part of a system scan for audio... the USB chipset should be looked at as well as what the USB port the AI is plugged into has sharing with it. (irq, other usb clients, etc)
[15:33] <sakrecoer> debcheckout, but if it is i canät find the right url
[15:33]  * sakrecoer is trying to use lintian
[15:34]  * OvenWerks has to go.
[15:35] <OvenWerks> bye now.
[15:35] <sakrecoer> o/
[15:36] <autumna> bye ovenwerks
[15:36] <autumna> sakrecoer: I have one suggestion. write down everything as you figure out how to do
[15:36]  * autumna is regretting not doing that last time zequence explained things
[15:39] <autumna> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntustudio-meta/+bug/1616175
[15:39] <autumna> ok looking at this ross suggests blacklisting kactivities. did we try that? 
[15:41] <sakrecoer> i donät know..
[15:44] <autumna> zequence: re the krita issue did we try blacklisting kactivities and see if we can get krita in that way as ross suggests? apologies if I am rehashing tried solutions. trying to figure out where the situation is. (I see that currently krita is off the metas - I think)
[15:45] <autumna> (sakrecoer I think ross' suggestion was after zequence's changes to the meta, but yeah)
[18:27] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks: i found this, so i guess the debian maintainer has moved on. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=796817
[18:27] <sakrecoer> (filed last year aÃ¶most exacly
[18:28] <sakrecoer> i'm reaching out to the maintainer Alessio
[18:29] <sakrecoer> nothing to lose from a friendly reminder. at worst he'll tell me to get lost or never answer..
[18:41] <sakrecoer> greetings eylul! :)
[18:42] <eylul> hi sakrecoer :) 
[18:52] <flocculant> sakrecoer: do I read stuff about font-manager correct - eg issue is it hanging? 
[18:52] <flocculant> cos debian 814433 
[18:53] <flocculant> wandering off again 
[19:04] <sakrecoer> flocculant: yeah, i saw that. was poked by Gunnar who wrote this: http://askubuntu.com/a/815354
[19:05] <sakrecoer> doesn't change the fact that it is a very old version of a software that has seen lots of improvement
[19:05] <sakrecoer> flocculant: in fact, the latest version has no problem with noto-cjk
[19:07] <sakrecoer> but yeah, its' not hanging, just looks like it did for ~20 minutes. which will lead many to just assume it is broken
[19:08] <sakrecoer> flocculant: but thank you anyways :) i'm still not very skilled so i appreciate you making sure i understand things allright
[19:15] <sakrecoer> flocculant: oh i didn't read you correct. :D
[19:15] <sakrecoer> but yes, it faints hanging when fonts-noto-cjk is installed.
[19:16] <sakrecoer> long enough to make everyone think it hung
[19:16] <flocculant> right
[19:17] <sakrecoer> this is solved in the current version, so it would be nice to have that packaged, instead of asking people to remove cjk or install from ppa
[19:17] <flocculant> :)
[23:47] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: I think the debian maitainer for font-manager may be just too busy, I have seen that name in too many places. I am sure debian would be happy for someone to take over. Or even do a repackage to current.
[23:52] <OvenWerks> Hey all. Ardour 5.3 is out... 5.3 is what 5.1 should have been.
[23:54] <OvenWerks> sakrecoer: looking at this page: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?maint=alessio%40debian.org
[23:55] <OvenWerks> font-manager is classed as: "Outstanding bugs -- Serious (policy violations or makes package unfit for release); Unclassified (4 bugs)"
[23:57] <OvenWerks> So not lack of maintainer. shows as: font-manager: FTBFS: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lfreetype-lfreetype-lglib-2.0 and: font-manager: FTBFS: src/lib/fm-pyfontutils.c:28:22: fatal error: ft2build.h: No such file or directory
[23:57] <OvenWerks> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=805663
[23:59] <OvenWerks> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=830469