[06:47] <flocculant> poll started 
[08:00] <flocculant> bluesabre ochosi_ bug 1617705
[08:01] <flocculant> I checked ubuntu just to be sure ...
[08:35] <flocculant> bluesabre: unfortunately, bug 1617711 also
[08:49] <nairwolf> hi flocculant ;) I'm also affected by this bug : Bug #1617705
[08:50] <nairwolf> the others you've seen on iso.qa.ubuntu.com, I need to pay more attention to see them
[08:52] <flocculant> nairwolf: morning :)
[08:52] <flocculant> yes you will be affected - it's on the iso ;)
[08:53] <flocculant> 2 of the 4 I listed today will be seen for anyone I think - the skip button ones
[08:53] <flocculant> the other 2 are greybird related
[08:53] <nairwolf> yes, it was just to tell you, I add my name on the bug report. You know, where it asks if this bug affect you
[08:54] <flocculant> aah ok :)
[08:54] <nairwolf> yep
[09:26] <flocculant> bluesabre: re parole/clutter - not sure if I said previously, but bug 1462445 appears gone on yakkety
[09:36] <bluesabre> flocculant, I think we disabled clutter again on xenial/yakkety
[09:36] <bluesabre> (seems so when I check)
[09:37] <flocculant> bluesabre: yes - but I changed parole's prefs to clutter and restarted it
[09:37] <bluesabre> oh
[09:37] <bluesabre> nice :D
[09:37] <flocculant> from what I can see - changelog was just a setting thing 
[09:38] <bluesabre> flocculant, guessing you have parole from https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa ?
[09:39] <flocculant> yep
[09:41] <bluesabre> cool
[09:41] <bluesabre> thanks for checking that 
[09:41] <bluesabre> I'd lost all hope in clutter :D
[09:41] <flocculant> well - I'd looked previously I'm sure - couldn't remember telling you - obviously I didn't :p
[09:43] <flocculant> bluesabre: I left a special comment on 1617711 for you to laugh at
[09:44] <bluesabre> :D
[09:45] <bluesabre> with my eyes and general "feeling old", I'm starting to think that being young means early 20s and below
[09:45] <flocculant> ha ha ha 
[09:46] <flocculant> it's all in the mind - till things stop working as well as they did :p
[09:46] <bluesabre> :)
[11:12] <knome_> flocculant, poll says simon davis
[11:12] <knome> flocculant, not SEAN davis
[11:12] <knome> flocculant, do we want to scracth and start from beginning, or just go ahead anyway?
[11:13] <knome> bluesabre, since you're the subject of the question... ^
[11:53] <flocculant> oh boo - copy paste fail
[11:54] <flocculant> leave it up to bluesabre - lp is right though
[11:54] <flocculant> knew I should have just used nicks ...
[11:57] <flocculant> edited poll description re that
[16:30] <knome> pleia2, hullo
[16:31] <pleia2> o/ knome 
[16:31] <pleia2> got stuck replying to a mailing list thread :)
[16:31] <knome> :)
[16:31] <knome> i used 10 minutes to write up some thoughts i want to go through....
[16:31] <knome> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-marketing-august-2016
[16:32] <pleia2> cool, looking
[16:36] <pleia2> doh, I just realized that the new thread was continuing on the one I replied to just now...
[16:36] <pleia2> should have read all before blabbering :)
[16:36] <knome> sure, wfm
[16:36] <knome> oh
[16:36] <knome> heh
[16:36] <knome> nvm...
[16:38] <knome> so tell me when and where do you want to start...
[16:38]  * pleia2 shakes her head at using distrowatch as an accurate evaluation of install base
[16:38] <knome> lol
[16:38] <knome> well
[16:38] <knome> there is no accurate evaluation anywhere
[16:38] <knome> so in a way distrowatch is just as good as amount of twitter followers
[16:39] <knome> granted, neither of them is a good evaluation
[16:39] <pleia2> it's worse than twitter, I never go to distrowatch, it's for people who switch distros a lot
[16:39]  * knome shrugs
[16:39] <pleia2> anyway
[16:39] <knome> i really don't care...
[16:39] <knome> :)
[16:39] <pleia2> these threads didn't go where I wanted them to
[16:40] <pleia2> maybe we should work to more clearly define what the marketing team is for
[16:40] <knome> and what we mean with "marketing"
[16:40] <pleia2> yeah
[16:40] <knome> or maybe change the team name
[16:40] <pleia2> perhaps
[16:40] <knome> otoh, there are many types of marketing
[16:41] <knome> the person on the thread tended to think that always implies active outreach and a goal to get more users
[16:41] <knome> which is one of the potential goals
[16:41] <knome> but not necessarily the one we are pursuing
[16:41] <pleia2> agreed
[16:41] <knome> but this goes beyond the marketing team too... maybe the team should discuss why they are working for xubuntu
[16:42] <knome> if most of us say we do it because we want as many people to use xubuntu (specifically), then maybe we should reconsider our marketing as well
[16:42] <knome> and the way we decide about defaults etc.
[16:42] <pleia2> it's also about building a community, being excited about what other people are doing, making clear that we're not just messing around here, it's a serious operating system being used for real things
[16:42] <knome> indeed
[16:43] <knome> so far, i've sensed the ideology behind xubuntu is more like "let's do something we believe in and people will come to us" rather than actively seeking new users from all kinds of caves
[16:43] <pleia2> yeah
[16:43] <knome> that doesn't mean that we are doing decisions for ourselves only though
[16:43] <pleia2> I want to do marketing because if people want the information, they have it and can join us, but I won't convert the world
[16:43] <knome> if we were, i'm pretty sure we would have synaptic installed by default...
[16:45] <pleia2> no gui at all!
[16:45] <knome> haha
[16:45] <knome> okay
[16:45] <pleia2> for package installing, I mean
[16:45] <knome> so shall we go to the pad
[16:45] <pleia2> I like pictures
[16:45] <pleia2> yes
[16:46] <knome> #lovexubuntu first then
[16:46] <pleia2> I'd like to start with the last item
[16:46] <pleia2>     – Action: Repost stuff
[16:46] <knome> sure
[16:46] <pleia2> my proposal is to create a spot on the wiki to put these stories
[16:46] <knome> okay
[16:46] <knome> without moderation?
[16:47] <pleia2> then do another push on social media about submitting them, with real examples
[16:47] <knome> right
[16:47] <pleia2> well, we put them on the wiki
[16:47] <knome> what about a blog article instead?
[16:47] <pleia2> blog could be in addition to
[16:47] <pleia2> maybe highlighting a couple stories a week
[16:48] <knome> well, we'd better get up to speed in receiving the stories then
[16:48] <pleia2> I don't know exactly how many we have, 6 or so?
[16:48] <knome> the reason i'm pointing to blog is because we can make it look much better much easier
[16:48] <knome> and it's also aggregated to planet ubuntu
[16:48] <knome> so it gets all that fuzz going (maybe)
[16:48] <knome> wiki is kind of... i don't know, hidden-ish
[16:49] <pleia2> so here's what I'm thinking: 1) copy all current ones to the wiki 2) each week, blog about 2 of them and ask for more 3) social media these things
[16:49] <knome> what's the main point of 1)
[16:49] <knome> the wiki is mostly contributor-facing outlet by our definition, so we don't want to point users there
[16:49] <pleia2> organizing them for when we select winners
[16:49] <pleia2> helps my brain
[16:49] <knome> okay, that's a good argument
[16:49] <knome> sure, we can do that
[16:49] <knome> do we want it in public or private?
[16:50] <pleia2> no harm in making them public
[16:50] <knome> ok
[16:50] <pleia2> but I do think it would be for us/team
[16:50] <pleia2> you're right, blog is user facing
[16:50] <knome> well, we have the team area on wiki if we want to make them private
[16:50] <knome> and it's very easy to publish them later
[16:50] <pleia2> yeah, I don't think that's needed
[16:50] <pleia2> no reason to hide them
[16:50] <knome> oki oki
[16:50] <knome> do you want to take that action item?
[16:50] <pleia2> sure
[16:51] <knome> we could prepare some of the blog articles, and we can even schedule them
[16:51] <pleia2> yeah, sounds good
[16:52] <pleia2> also, I think we end the competition at the end of September
[16:52] <knome> ok
[16:52] <knome> ^^ but maybe leave that for after going through the other stuff
[16:52] <pleia2> yeah
[16:52] <flocculant> not particularly my bag but "but this goes beyond the marketing team too... maybe the team should discuss why they are working for xubuntu" makes some sense to me
[16:53]  * flocculant wanders off again
[16:53] <pleia2> it might be nice to see some team profiles that ask that question
[16:53] <pleia2> but now I'm getting distracted
[16:53]  * pleia2 refocus on etherpad
[16:54] <knome> let's get back to that later...
[16:54] <knome> because there might be something touching that
[16:54]  * pleia2 nods
[16:54] <knome> oh my
[16:54] <knome> the flyer is in some "state" too
[16:54] <knome> "_new" files here
[16:54] <pleia2> this whole topic is like "OH GOD OH GOD"
[16:55] <pleia2> ;)
[16:55] <knome> i think that might be some cleanup
[16:55]  * pleia2 hugs the poor flyer
[16:55] <pleia2> yeah
[16:55] <knome> ugh.
[16:55] <knome> ok, i'll grin my teeth and fix that TOO today
[16:56] <pleia2> thanks :\
[16:56] <knome> ok, too small page padding
[16:56] <knome> ...in the "new" version
[16:56] <knome> anyway
[16:56] <knome> what do we do with the content?
[16:56] <pleia2> ?
[16:56] <knome> nvm, graphic issues, i'll sort it out...
[16:57] <pleia2> ok
[16:57] <knome> so re: translations, even if that is the last item
[16:57] <pleia2> I'll make it a priority to start reviewing content for updates once you're ready
[16:57] <knome> we have a Makefile
[16:57] <knome> you can review content already
[16:57] <pleia2> alright
[16:57] <knome> i'm only touching the graphic side
[16:57] <knome> so the Makefile makes .pot 
[16:57] <knome> and that could be used by Launchpad to create .po
[16:57] <knome> and those could be used to make translated versions of the flyer
[16:57] <pleia2> I'll create bugs when I find issues so I can keep track of them like a grown up
[16:58] <knome> ...except that we still need to manually make sure the flow is ok
[16:58] <pleia2> yeah, that can be tricky
[16:58] <knome> i remember looking at making that work with scribus
[16:58] <knome> ...and i probably stills hould
[16:59] <knome> that might make the work on the content being okay easier
[16:59] <pleia2> have you built these lately?
[16:59] <knome> no
[16:59] <pleia2> me neither
[16:59] <knome> but the content hasn't changed lately
[16:59] <knome> so we're okay
[16:59] <pleia2> probably should do on xenial
[16:59] <pleia2> still, tooling versions changed
[16:59] <knome> yeah
[16:59] <pleia2> pdftk and stuff
[17:00] <knome> builds okay on 16.04
[17:00] <knome> and uses the "new" style
[17:00] <knome> so huh, i can probably get on with less work
[17:00] <pleia2> :)
[17:00]  * knome checks state of launchpad
[17:01] <pleia2> less work is my favorite kind of work
[17:01] <knome> oh, ok
[17:01] <knome> no "new" stuff on launchpad
[17:01] <knome> hooray
[17:01] <pleia2> phew
[17:01] <knome> that means more work though
[17:01] <knome> :D
[17:01] <knome> anyway
[17:02] <pleia2> well, you should just be able to merge your local changes, right?
[17:02] <knome> the problem that we might have with scribus is automated process
[17:02] <pleia2> yeah :\
[17:02] <knome> yes, but the fact that i have two sets of files that aren't pushed to the main branch might mean it's WIP and not pushed for that reason
[17:02]  * pleia2 nods
[17:02] <knome> so i need to check that
[17:02] <knome> and that might take a while
[17:02] <knome> but it's ok, i'll just do it anyway
[17:02] <pleia2> ty <3
[17:02] <knome> but the content
[17:03] <knome> we have libreoffice already
[17:03] <knome> but we also have a few bugs
[17:03] <pleia2> screenshots should be updated for Xenial
[17:03] <knome> that's fine, we have them on website so i can snatch from there
[17:04] <pleia2> and I might want to adjust some wording here and there now that I have a base to work on and some fresh eyeballs
[17:04] <knome> https://bugs.launchpad.net/xubuntu-marketing/+bug/1501113
[17:04] <pleia2> like the description on the front page is too much
[17:04] <knome> you might want to take a look at that then...
[17:04] <pleia2> yeah, I just looked at bugs a bit ago
[17:04] <knome> okay, apparently there is a way to convert .sla (scribus) to .pdf from command line
[17:04] <pleia2> neat
[17:05] <knome> but then there's the translation automation
[17:05] <pleia2> I know nothing about that :(
[17:05] <knome> me neither
[17:05] <knome> but my friend google might
[17:05] <pleia2> hehe
[17:06] <knome> ok, so i'll look at all that
[17:06] <knome> i don't even mind what format the updated content is in
[17:06] <knome> i'll figure out how i want to do the new version
[17:07] <knome> do we think those small facelift items are enough at this point?
[17:07] <pleia2> I think so
[17:07] <knome> okay
[17:07] <pleia2> seems to be a pretty solid flyer still overall
[17:07] <knome> yep, it's pretty good
[17:08] <knome> translated versions would be nice
[17:08] <knome> so onto the website
[17:08] <pleia2> yeah
[17:08] <knome> the first three items under visual/feature updates are fine, i'll do them, but do we have other things to fix/update
[17:10] <pleia2> ok
[17:10] <knome> well i guess the search bit is a question
[17:10] <knome> but i'll make sure we can enable that if we want
[17:10] <pleia2> sounds good to me
[17:10]  * pleia2 looks at the feature tour
[17:11] <pleia2> so we should update those inline screenshots to be a pair from our current wallpaper selection
[17:11] <pleia2> update references to 14.04
[17:12] <pleia2> I think it's ok otherwise really, it's still pretty and stuff
[17:12] <knome> okay
[17:12] <knome> (meh.)
[17:12] <knome> doesn't look like scribus really supports translating documents
[17:12] <knome> or it's very hidden
[17:12] <pleia2> bummer
[17:12] <knome> well you can import stuff from .txt file
[17:13] <knome> but that's not *really* what we are looking for
[17:13] <knome> so one idea for you when reconsidering the flyer
[17:13] <knome> if you didn't finish that already :P
[17:13] <pleia2> didn't
[17:13] <knome> we might want to drop some of the small-text portions to make the available space and layout more predictable for translations
[17:13] <knome> even if that meant more whitespace
[17:14] <pleia2> ok, consider it considered :)
[17:14] <knome> also, i might do something as crazy as using only one file for outputting to both USletter/A4, so potentially more padding
[17:15] <knome> not sure if that's possible though
[17:15] <knome> but i'd really want to move to one source file (per page) only
[17:15]  * pleia2 nods
[17:16] <knome> or maybe per flyer
[17:16] <knome> :P
[17:16] <pleia2> letter/a4?
[17:16] <pleia2> I mean, are those each of the flyers you're talking about?
[17:16] <knome> yeah
[17:16] <knome> well
[17:16] <knome> actually, i'm imagining something like
[17:17] <knome> only keep one file as a REAL source
[17:17] <knome> so A4 on one svg, with both pages laid there
[17:17] <knome> then have another template file for letter, and put the text there with some method
[17:17] <knome> currently text changes need to be made to both separately
[17:18] <knome> which is the thing i want to avoid the most
[17:18] <knome> and with that, putting in translations would be 50% of the work it is now
[17:18] <pleia2> as long as we still have clear instructions (or Makefile) as to how to generate each, I'm fine
[17:18] <knome> yes yes, the Makefile would take care of that
[17:18] <pleia2> good
[17:18] <knome> because if the work would be manual, then it would be just as good as two source files
[17:19] <pleia2> right
[17:19] <knome> (or as bad really)
[17:19] <pleia2> and I'd never want to look at it because ugh, forgot how to do ;)
[17:19] <knome> the thing why i'd like scribus is better text flow and column management
[17:19] <knome> on scribus, you can actually add a special character that tells scribus to go to the next column
[17:19] <knome> so you don't have to worry about flowing too much content somewhere
[17:20] <knome> but...
[17:20] <knome> let's get moving
[17:20] <knome> what about "about xubuntu"?
[17:20] <pleia2> website?
[17:20] <knome> yep
[17:20] <knome> it's been a bit abandoned as long as i remember
[17:20]  * pleia2 looks
[17:20] <knome> eg. from 2008
[17:21] <pleia2> oh yes, that is a very boring page :(
[17:21]  * pleia2 reads
[17:21] <knome> indeed!
[17:21] <knome> the first section has been pretty much the same for 8 years
[17:21] <pleia2> as a first step, content seems solid, but making it pretty like the tour would be nice
[17:21] <knome> we could potentially replace it with one link to the ubuntu philosophy
[17:22] <knome> and i actually think we could move some of the content from the flyer here
[17:22] <pleia2> agreed
[17:22] <knome> like, mention xfce
[17:22] <pleia2> heh, right
[17:22] <knome> also
[17:22] <knome> http://docs.xubuntu.org/1604/user/C/what-is-xubuntu.html
[17:22] <pleia2> I suppose "Xubuntu is a community developed, GNU/Linux based Free/Open Source operating system" is a bit blah blah blah to mortals
[17:22] <knome> yes
[17:23] <knome> so is most of the first section
[17:23]  * pleia2 nods
[17:23] <pleia2> we need some more non-nerd people on this team
[17:23] <knome> so as i said, we could just add a link to the ubuntu philosophy
[17:23] <knome> and fix that section with that
[17:23] <knome> can we fix this page right now?
[17:23] <knome> i'll take the edit lock.
[17:23] <pleia2> sure
[17:23] <pleia2> so sec
[17:24] <knome> and we'll obviously do the changes live, as all professional website admisn
[17:24] <pleia2> I'd like to grab the short intro from our what-is-xubuntu.html docs, 
[17:24] <pleia2> to replace the first sentence
[17:24] <knome> btw, side-stepping, but ugh
[17:24] <pleia2> delete the second sentence and put the Ubuntu philosophy link under Ideals behind...
[17:24] <knome> wordpress now supports "native fonts", making the interface look more "native"
[17:25] <pleia2> non-innovation
[17:25] <knome> eg. it forces the ubuntu font everywhere
[17:25] <pleia2> heh
[17:25] <knome> i so need to overwrite this with a stylish script
[17:25] <knome> ugh ugh ugh
[17:26] <knome> link to ubuntu wiki
[17:27] <pleia2> :\
[17:27] <pleia2> yeah
[17:27] <pleia2> strat doc
[17:28] <knome> xubuntu is a what to ubuntu
[17:28] <knome> not subteam
[17:28] <pleia2> flavor of
[17:28] <knome> part of the broader ubuntu community?
[17:28] <knome> eh.
[17:28] <knome> As a part of the broader Ubuntun community, the Xubuntu community is built around the ideals enshrined in the Ubuntu Philosophy.
[17:28] <knome> -n
[17:28] <knome> or something else?
[17:28] <pleia2> that's good :)
[17:29] <knome> so let me read what you said before
[17:30] <knome> ok, first update done
[17:30] <pleia2> much better
[17:31] <pleia2> actually, I think this is plenty, just add pretty colors
[17:31] <pleia2> a la tour ;)
[17:31] <knome> haha
[17:31] <knome> oh my
[17:31] <knome> we need something
[17:31] <knome> which is
[17:32] <knome> docs.xubuntu.org/current/
[17:32] <knome> which is a symlink
[17:32] <knome> see where i'm going here?
[17:32] <pleia2> ah, good idea
[17:32] <pleia2> just need to remember to update it
[17:32] <knome> i'll just expect that it exists
[17:32] <pleia2> I can make it
[17:32] <knome> thanks
[17:33] <knome> oh wow
[17:33] <knome> nice feature in wordpress
[17:33] <knome> select some text
[17:33] <knome> and paste an url
[17:33] <knome> it becomes a link
[17:33] <knome> not fail the content
[17:33] <knome> i accidentally did that...
[17:34] <pleia2> k, haz /current
[17:34] <knome> better?
[17:35] <pleia2> yes :)
[17:35] <knome> or do we want some color-color?
[17:35] <pleia2> maybe some color
[17:35] <knome> white -> generic
[17:35] <knome> green -> new/fresh
[17:35] <knome> red -> important/warning
[17:35] <knome> blue -> sth
[17:35] <knome> pink -> community(?)
[17:36] <pleia2> I like heading of green, then blue in ideals
[17:36] <knome> the blue one says "Highlight: Blue c" which looks like i've just saved and forgot to write the rest there.
[17:37] <pleia2> heh
[17:38] <knome> ok, done
[17:38] <pleia2> I like it :D
[17:38] <knome> good
[17:38] <knome> what's next
[17:38] <knome> ok, the press page
[17:39] <pleia2> I think it's fine
[17:39] <pleia2> I mean
[17:39] <pleia2> do need to add some 16.04 articles :)
[17:39] <pleia2> and fix my name (Elizabeth K. Joseph)
[17:39] <pleia2> I can add the articles today
[17:39] <knome> ok, but the problem isn't that you need more help with it?
[17:40] <knome> name fixed
[17:40] <knome> and added simon's blog
[17:40] <knome> and made the list ordered by last name
[17:40] <pleia2> I probably just need to make it a priority, i was nice when folks were giving me links though
[17:40] <knome> yep
[17:40] <knome> were you subbed to some google news alert?
[17:41] <pleia2> yeah, still am
[17:41] <knome> oh my
[17:41] <pleia2> just have had a lot of my plate, things are better now
[17:41] <pleia2> slightly
[17:41] <knome> there's something i figured i should do
[17:41] <knome> from a release taxonomy term (eg. a single release), make it possible to link to the press area
[17:42] <pleia2> hm?
[17:42] <knome> in http://xubuntu.org/news/release/14-04/, add a link to the appropriate place in the press area
[17:43] <knome> or what better, link the press stuff directly to the releases
[17:43] <knome> which is really what we should do
[17:43] <pleia2> ah
[17:43] <pleia2> isn't that just an autogenerated thing from articles?
[17:43] <knome> yes and no
[17:43] <pleia2> okie :)
[17:43] <knome> the releases are a new custom taxonomy
[17:44] <knome> the release/eol dates are custom fields for the taxonomy
[17:44] <pleia2> so you can edit the text at the top of the page then?
[17:44] <knome> yes
[17:44]  * pleia2 nods
[17:44] <knome> that's the term description
[17:44] <pleia2> gotcha
[17:44] <knome> and the EOL releases are automatically figured out for the sidebar "releases" section
[17:44] <pleia2> I think that would be valuable
[17:44] <knome> indeed
[17:44] <knome> and that would make adding the links easier
[17:44] <pleia2> yeah
[17:44] <knome> you have played with the wordpress links UI, right?
[17:45] <pleia2> yeah
[17:45] <knome> ...yeah
[17:45] <knome> so put the press stuff into that
[17:45] <knome> and automatically gather the ones that are linked to the release taxonomy
[17:45] <pleia2> that would be better than manual <strong> etc
[17:45] <knome> much better
[17:45] <knome> and then the release pages could be *so much* more useful
[17:45] <pleia2> yep :)
[17:45] <knome> but at that point, re: our discussion some time ago
[17:46] <knome> should we also show download links as long as the release isn't EOL?
[17:46] <knome> and potentially "other links"
[17:46] <knome> like "documentation"
[17:46] <pleia2> how hard is that to maintain?
[17:46] <pleia2> I guess we just have a checklist when something is EOL
[17:46] <knome> no
[17:46] <pleia2> like with releases
[17:46] <knome> well, yeah
[17:47] <knome> if date > EOL_DATE, don't show
[17:47] <knome> esy
[17:47] <knome> easy too
[17:47] <pleia2> oh, even better :)
[17:47] <knome> so that's the non-problem part
[17:47] <knome> well there is no problem part
[17:47] <knome> the only maintaining part is to add the link there once
[17:47] <knome> and maybe 1-4 times more for LTS point releases
[17:47]  * pleia2 nods
[17:48] <knome> but i can figure that out
[17:48] <pleia2> alright :)
[17:48] <knome> i really like the idea of "this is all things xubuntu 14.04"
[17:48] <pleia2> me too
[17:49] <knome> okay, i'll put this on the TODO list
[17:49] <pleia2> great
[17:49] <knome> so what then
[17:49] <knome> oh right, content stuff
[17:49] <knome> or, the real marketing stuff
[17:49] <knome> :P
[17:49] <knome> there was discussion about some more "small details" types of posts
[17:49]  * pleia2 nods
[17:50] <knome> do we just extend the current series, or create a new one?
[17:50]  * pleia2 refreshmemory
[17:50] <pleia2> extend
[17:50] <knome> the current one is kind of linked to 16.04
[17:50] <knome> it covers stuff that has changed since 14.04 and other stuff we wanted to highlight again
[17:50] <knome> i'm okay with extending too though
[17:50] <pleia2> that's ok
[17:51] <knome> let's send an email to the devel list to ask if people think there are subjects we should cover
[17:52] <pleia2> sounds good
[17:52] <knome> do you want to take that item or should i?
[17:53] <pleia2> I can do it
[17:53] <knome> ta
[17:53] <knome> (i just bolded the actions)
[17:53] <knome> well, some of them
[17:53] <knome> so the faq stuff is kind of sameish, but what do we do with it?
[17:54] <knome> do we just consider that idea dead?
[17:54] <knome> or do we want to try to write new articles for each release again?
[17:54] <pleia2> maybe, unless someone wants to pick it up
[17:54] <knome> ok
[17:54] <knome> so the next one probably needs some introduction
[17:54] <knome> well, you likely know the AMA stuff on reddit
[17:55] <knome> so, would we like to do something similar to that with xubuntu contributors?
[17:55] <knome> that could be *one way* of introducing the "human" side of xubuntu to others
[17:55] <pleia2> like, interviews?
[17:55] <knome> kind of, but community-ridden in a way
[17:56] <knome> in the AMA reddits, people can ask whatever they want from (usually) a celebrity
[17:56] <knome> and they answer whichever questions they want to answer
[17:56] <knome> so, instead of making the questions something we think people want to know answers to, let the people ask the questions
[17:57] <pleia2> ah
[17:57] <pleia2> who are the people? :)
[17:57] <knome> we can do that person-by-person, or just monthly/bi-monthly with the whole team replying
[17:57] <knome> people is anybody
[17:57] <knome> so basically that needs social media shouting too
[17:58] <pleia2> do we do it per person, like "this week, ask questions of the tech lead!" or?
[17:58] <knome> see above ^
[17:58] <pleia2> oh, derp
[17:58] <knome> so could be by person, but i don't think we'd have enough questions
[17:58] <pleia2> agreed
[17:58] <knome> so maybe do once a month or two, then make anybody who is concerned reply
[17:58] <knome> and we can also include questions we hear on #xubuntu
[17:59] <knome> it doesn't need to be only questions that are specifically sent to us for this purpose
[17:59] <pleia2> yeah
[17:59] <knome> that could be a nice way to interact with people
[17:59] <pleia2> we can seed it with some basic questions
[17:59] <knome> and have some kind of easyish way to have constantly updated content
[17:59] <pleia2> and include the name/nickname of people who ask the questions, since people like to see their name on things
[17:59] <knome> yes, indeed
[17:59] <knome> and i guess we can include some silly questions too
[18:00]  * pleia2 nods
[18:00] <knome> not too many, but like one or two per month
[18:00] <pleia2> yeah
[18:00] <knome> "Pasi asked: Pie or cake?"
[18:00] <pleia2> hehe
[18:00] <pleia2> obvs cake
[18:00] <knome> because again, we probably want to add to the "human" side
[18:00] <pleia2> right
[18:00] <knome> also, re: non-nerds on team
[18:01] <knome> maybe people think we are nerds because they don't know anything about us ;)
[18:01] <knome> or maybe they think we are paid by canonical 
[18:01] <pleia2> I think they think we are nerds because we spend our free time updating the About Xubuntu page
[18:01] <knome> well, we didn't use much our free time - or any time - to do that for the last 8 years
[18:01] <knome> :D
[18:02] <pleia2> haha
[18:02] <pleia2> ok, I'm totally not a nerd
[18:02] <knome> i don't know what people thought about the "what's your favorite music" thing on the media player series, but i liked how it made the issue a bit less serious
[18:02] <pleia2> alright, so I think this is a fun idea
[18:02] <pleia2> yeah, me too
[18:03] <knome> so maybe we should plan it a bit further
[18:03] <knome> i'll either set up another pad or formulate it in a better way and send to mailing list
[18:03] <pleia2> wfm
[18:04] <pleia2> the rest of this chat has put a lot on my plate for immediate stuff anyway
[18:04] <knome> yep...
[18:04] <knome> my hands are itching to make the release pages work better
[18:04] <knome> even if it's hard work and meh
[18:04] <pleia2> I'm excited about that too
[18:04] <knome> good :D
[18:04] <knome> so the single articles
[18:04] <knome> the first one popped into my head today
[18:05] <knome> i don't know if that's realistic, but..
[18:05] <pleia2> frirst one re: MOTU, ok, whatever, sure :)
[18:05] <knome> bluesabre, "Promote Xubuntu as a stepping stone for MOTU candidates"
[18:05] <pleia2> yeah
[18:05] <knome> bluesabre, would you be willing/interested in writing an article about that?
[18:05] <knome> what about the other?
[18:05] <pleia2> Xubuntu Council should be an article, maybe just link to their profiles somewhere, or have each member submit a blurb about something
[18:05] <pleia2> I did full interviews of the CC members a while back, with the old CC
[18:06] <knome> doesn't really need to be full interviews
[18:06] <knome> again just some human side
[18:06] <pleia2> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2015/04/22/interview-with-yokozar-of-the-ubuntu-community-council/
[18:06] <knome> "the council is actually three real persons"
[18:06] <pleia2> (that's the last article in the series, links to all the others)
[18:06] <knome> yeah, i noticed them, that's nice :)
[18:06] <knome> and faces!
[18:06] <pleia2> yeah :)
[18:07] <pleia2> but like, picture + blurb for this would be nice
[18:07] <knome> yep
[18:07] <knome> point people to profiles somewhere else is meh
[18:07] <pleia2> fair enough
[18:07] <pleia2> people can google anyway ;)
[18:07] <knome> yes, and we can do that *too*
[18:08] <knome> but a blog article that mostly points elsewhere (we already have to link to the XSD) is stupid
[18:08] <pleia2> haha
[18:08] <knome> so we need to have some content too
[18:08] <pleia2> k
[18:08] <pleia2> yeah
[18:08] <knome> if it's original, even better
[18:08] <pleia2> so, introduction about why/what the council, then 3 blurbs+photos from each of the sitting council members
[18:08] <knome> (even if it was silly, like to find out if the council likes pie or cake more)
[18:08] <knome> yes
[18:09] <knome> oh heh, you are using the real list bullets
[18:09] <knome> i'm just doing this the old-school way
[18:09] <pleia2> troublesome of me, I know
[18:09] <pleia2> I think we should wait on this until after release
[18:09] <knome> except using an ndash isn't oldschool
[18:10] <pleia2> give the council time to settle in
[18:10] <knome> wfm
[18:10] <pleia2> and have a release under our blet
[18:10] <pleia2> belt too
[18:10] <knome> yup
[18:11] <knome> oh wow
[18:11] <knome> the release feature code is almost 300 lines already
[18:11] <pleia2> x_x
[18:11] <knome> go us
[18:11] <pleia2> lol
[18:12] <knome> so the last item
[18:12] <knome> how do we want to do that?
[18:13] <pleia2> do what?
[18:13] <knome>     – Action: Communicate the purpose of the marketing team more clearly (blog article?)
[18:13] <knome> one possibility is to try to write something in the contributor docs
[18:13] <knome> we have some of it, like the marketing target audience, in the wiki
[18:13] <knome> but again, the wiki is kind of hidden
[18:13] <knome> i feel like
[18:14] <knome> we have all this new, cool looking, visually consistent stuff
[18:14] <knome> let's use it
[18:14] <pleia2> :)
[18:15] <pleia2> we should probably first focus on the contrib docs
[18:15] <pleia2> then develop a blog post from that
[18:15] <pleia2> since as far as I can tell, we don't clearly articulate this anywhere yet
[18:15] <knome> works for me
[18:15] <knome> http://wiki.xubuntu.org/marketing/start
[18:15] <knome> -> marketing audience is there
[18:15] <knome> but not about what the marketing team is here for
[18:16] <knome> or the marketing strategies mentioned with the audience
[18:16] <pleia2> right
[18:16] <knome> so yeah
[18:16] <knome> i'll pass the main responsibility of that to you
[18:17] <knome> and hide
[18:17] <knome> ;)
[18:17] <knome> and i retweeted your tweet
[18:17]  * pleia2 was just picking up her phone to see what the noise meant
[18:17] <pleia2> :D
[18:18] <knome> ignore the phones
[18:18] <pleia2> lol
[18:18] <knome> i do that probably a bit too often
[18:18] <knome> ...and also throw them on the floor too often as well
[18:18] <knome> like, actively do that
[18:18] <knome> :X
[18:21] <knome> pleia2, this is a mess that needs extending: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-y-marketing
[18:21] <knome> :P
[18:21] <pleia2> alright, I'll fix that too
[18:23] <knome> so btw
[18:23] <knome> once we make the release pages even more useful
[18:23] <knome> we might want to link to them more prominently
[18:24] <knome> maybe show non-EOL releases under the get xubuntu menu
[18:24]  * knome is making himself hard times
[18:26]  * pleia2 nods
[18:26] <pleia2> haha
[18:28] <knome> oh, this is too easy
[18:29] <knome> well, hopefully
[18:29] <knome> wordpress might directly support adding the same taxonomy for links
[18:29] <knome> at least you can do that for any post types
[18:29] <knome> or in other words
[18:29]  * knome sighs
[18:29] <pleia2> :)
[18:29] <knome> we can add that taxonomy for media
[18:29] <knome> meaning
[18:30] <knome> we can attach all screenshots of the release to the page as well
[18:30] <knome> i'm not sure if links have taxonomies actually
[18:30] <knome> ...but i'll make it work
[18:31] <pleia2> alright
[18:31]  * knome is overwhelmed
[18:31] <knome> it's all positive though
[18:31] <pleia2> right now we pretty much just delete/make inaccessible old screenshots, right?
[18:31] <knome> we move them to the archive
[18:32] <knome> --> https://xubuntu.org/screenshots/archive/
[18:32] <knome> currently means 14.04
[18:32] <knome> but we could show those with the release too
[18:32] <pleia2> oh
[18:32] <knome> so no need for that archive
[18:32] <pleia2> I see
[18:32] <knome> INDEED!
[18:32] <pleia2> yeah
[18:32] <knome> and it's really easy
[18:32] <knome> just add one item to an array
[18:32] <knome> ...
[18:32] <knome> (and handle showing them, but that's the easiest thing)
[18:33] <knome> or at least relatively trivial
[18:33] <knome> let's see
[18:33] <knome> oh yeah
[18:33] <knome> i've already linked one screenshot to the release on the staging site
[18:33] <knome> now just show it
[18:34] <pleia2> :)
[18:35] <knome> i need to start documenting this code
[18:57] <knome> haha, ok
[18:57] <knome> so the attachments from posts that have the release are now shown
[18:57] <knome> but not the media that has the release
[18:57] <knome> >___<
[18:59] <knome> actually, that's not even true
[18:59] <knome> the attachments are randomish
[18:59] <knome> maybe i'm doing something wrong
[19:01] <knome> better!
[19:03] <knome> will beautify even further, but: http://staging.xubuntu.org/news/release/14-04/
[19:04] <pleia2> yay screenshots
[19:15] <knome> yummy, better :D
[19:15] <knome> next the links...
[19:30] <knome> oh meh, might have to register new post type for the press links
[20:05] <pleia2> links as a post type?
[20:05] <knome> yes...
[20:05] <pleia2> kk
[20:05] <knome> as you really can't add a custom taxonomy for the links post type
[20:06] <knome> for some weird reason
[20:06] <knome> it only ever allows the link category taxonomy
[20:06]  * pleia2 nods
[20:06] <knome> which is silly btw
[20:07] <knome> this would have been a breeze without that limitation
[20:07] <knome> but i guess the thing is they are going to want to fade out the link post type anyway
[20:07] <knome> they don't show the links manager on new installations
[20:07] <pleia2> ah, interesting
[20:08] <knome> yes and no :)
[20:08] <knome> i don't think most people ever use that feature
[20:08] <knome> they just create a navigation menu and put custom links there
[20:08] <knome> and it makes sense
[20:08] <knome> ...except when you want to bind your links to taxonomies
[20:09] <pleia2> right
[20:10] <knome> most people don't want to
[20:10] <knome> the alternative to this would be to make the release taxonomy linked with a certain link category, but that would be ugly
[20:10] <knome> i mean that would mean you'd have to create two taxonomy terms, one for releases and one for links, then link them
[20:10] <knome> >___<
[20:11] <pleia2> heh
[20:13] <pleia2> hmm, can't find one of the links I had for xubuntu 16.04
[20:13] <knome> oh noes!
[20:13] <pleia2> have http://news.softpedia.com/news/xubuntu-16-04-lts-and-lubuntu-16-04-lts-released-get-three-years-of-support-503348.shtml & http://fossforce.com/2016/05/down-dirty-look-xubuntu-16-04/
[20:14]  * pleia2 will search for a bit
[20:14] <pleia2> http://www.linuxtechi.com/definitive-guide-to-install-xubuntu-16-04-lts/
[20:14] <pleia2> http://www.debugpoint.com/2016/05/a-quick-look-at-the-xubuntu-16-04-lts-feature-tour/
[20:16] <pleia2> http://news.softpedia.com/news/xubuntu-16-04-1-lts-released-upgrade-path-from-xubuntu-14-04-lts-now-open-506582.shtml
[20:16] <pleia2> that's a pretty good start
[20:17] <pleia2> I'll dump this in the pad so I have it for later
[20:17] <knome> okay
[20:18] <pleia2> where should we put the stories on the wiki?
[20:18] <pleia2> can stash it under /marketing
[20:18] <knome> yep, somewhere there
[20:18] <pleia2> maybe /marketing/lovexubuntu and /2016?
[20:18] <knome> wfm
[20:18] <pleia2> k
[20:18]  * knome is not the wiki structuring dictator
[20:19] <pleia2> :)
[20:20]  * pleia2 mutters about wiki syntax
[20:20] <knome> it's almost moin!!
[20:21] <knome> ok, you can make a difference now
[20:21] <knome> what kind of data do we want to track with the press links?
[20:21] <knome> obviously title, url
[20:21] <knome> author, author url?
[20:22]  * pleia2 looks at what we have now
[20:22] <knome> to create the familiar "TITLE at AUTHOR" format
[20:22] <pleia2> yeah, that sounds good
[20:22] <knome> okay
[20:22] <pleia2> sometimes we don't have an author, can that be a conditional?
[20:22] <knome> yes
[20:22] <knome> i'll just not print it if it's empty
[20:26] <pleia2> oh bother, how do you delete a page?
[20:26] <knome> save it with empty content
[20:26] <knome> (ta-dah!)
[20:26] <pleia2> ty
[20:39] <pleia2> I love how dokuwiki uses the opposite heading styling to moinmoin
[20:40] <knome> it can be confusing, but it's oh so useful
[20:40] <knome> = Title = doesn't look like a big heading
[20:40] <pleia2> no, it's [20:40] <knome> i know
[20:40] <pleia2> or something
[20:40] <knome> the difference can be confusing
[20:40] <pleia2> moinmoin = title = is the biggest
[20:40] <knome> i mean
[20:40] <knome> and yes, i agree that dokuwiki is superior :P
[20:41] <pleia2> lol
[20:44] <pleia2> I don't seem to be able to upload files to this wiki
[20:45]  * knome hides
[20:45] <knome> you likely have all the permissions you need in the world
[20:45] <knome> but the upload form... yeah.
[20:45] <pleia2> xubuntu_locked_folder.jpg 42.0kB Failed
[20:45] <pleia2> o_o
[20:45] <pleia2> so it works, just not my user?
[20:46] <knome> i believe the legend tells flocculant has been able to upload some files there at some point
[20:46] <pleia2> hehe
[20:46] <knome> http://wiki.xubuntu.org/_media/team/milestones.png
[20:46] <knome> see!
[21:01] <pleia2> ok, http://wiki.xubuntu.org/marketing/projects/lovexubuntu/2016 is a thing now
[21:01] <knome> <3
[21:08] <pleia2> btw, the wiki is spamming logged in users to upgrade
[21:08] <knome> yes
[21:08] <pleia2> so someone should do that :)
[21:09] <knome> yes
[21:09] <pleia2> not pleia2 
[21:09] <knome> i'll do that soonish
[21:09] <pleia2> ty <3
[23:56] <knome> pleia2, i'll go and remove lines that are done from the marketing pad, much easier to follow what's left
[23:57] <ax562> hello
[23:57] <knome> hello
[23:57] <ax562> was that intel but ever fixed on 16.04?
[23:57] <ax562> bug
[23:57] <knome> no intel butts there
[23:57] <knome> but yes, it should be fixed
[23:58] <ax562> the pointer disapearing one
[23:58] <ax562> what was the issue knome?
[23:58] <knome> i don't know the details