[02:39] <ishan> hi
[02:39] <ishan> anybody here
[08:28] <al__> Good morning, peoples!
[08:37] <alkisg> Good morning al__
[08:38] <al__> Whats going on, my man?
[08:38] <alkisg> al__: this channel is for ubuntu support questions, not for general chat
[08:39] <alkisg> If you want offtopic chat, join #ubuntu-offtopic
[08:55] <al__> Is anyone familiar with nVidia driver installation, and dual GPU/dual monitor setup on MATE 16?
[11:52] <logical> Hi, today when I turned on my pc in the pictures folder all images have some xmp file next to it, here is a screenshot http://pix.toile-libre.org/upload/original/1472644269.png
[11:59] <rahtgaz> seems like something a picture manager would do. Have you installed anything from Adobe lately?
[12:00] <rahtgaz> check this list for possible applications doing that stupid thing to your collection: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extensible_Metadata_Platform#Support_and_acceptance
[12:01] <logical> emm no i didnt install anything
[12:04] <rahtgaz> well, you can safely delete those files, of course. Just keep an eye for a similar incident on the future and try to remember what you used that may have generated those files.
[12:04] <rahtgaz> it's got something to do with photo managers or images in general
[12:18] <mate|84147> anyone about?
[12:23] <mate|84147> Ubuntu Mate 16.04  Running 1.12.1, Trying to make mouse cursor larger. Traditional gnome edits in org.gnome.desktop.interface do not seem to work
[12:39]  * SuperEngineer resists temptation to suggest using binoculars ;-)
[12:44] <SuperEngineer> ...7 instead recommends looking in accesibilty options,; perhaps there may be something there?
[13:09] <mate|84147> SE: location?
[13:11] <mate|84147> Assistive Technologies, covers SensitivitesAcceleration and such.  no size
[13:13] <Tintomatic> Is anyoneelse unable to set the desktop background to a solid color?
[13:15] <mate|84147> Tint... same boat as you.
[13:16] <Tintomatic> I can put any picture up, but not a color or gradient. I see this o both Mate 1.12 and 1.14.
[13:17] <Tintomatic> is it a known problem?
[13:17] <SuperEngineer> I don't know if it's im/possible.  I do know that that taking a piccy of a solid colour & setting that piccy as your background seems plausible.
[13:18] <Tintomatic> SuperE: yeah, I might go that route.
[13:19] <SuperEngineer> simple soloutions to the great mysteries... a speciality ;)
[13:39] <server_> hello
[13:39] <server_> testing 123
[13:40]  * SuperEngineer wishes he had a 123 to test
[13:43] <server_> sombody there
[13:43] <server_> ??
[13:44] <SuperEngineer> server_: "somebody" does not appear in the user list for this channel so I guess he/she is currently offline
[14:51] <zjx> 1
[14:54] <zjx> 1
[16:04] <RFleming> Greetings and other salutations!
[16:06] <oswriter> Same to you, RFleming
[16:06] <RFleming> How goes it?
[16:06]  * RFleming hopes he doesn't get ticketed by the 'off-topic' police.
[16:10] <ouroumov> It's loosely enforced here.
[16:10] <ouroumov> Especially when there's no active help requests
[16:12] <oswriter> if we want to stay on-topic i have been testing the 16.10 beta.. so far the computer hasn't exploded, so that's a good sign.
[16:12] <ouroumov> That's true. Good for you then. :D
[16:13] <ouroumov> Actually Wimpy's described 16.10 as the most boring releases ever
[16:14] <oswriter> Wimpy is always the master of the undersell lol
[16:14] <ouroumov> So they're unlikely to cause unscheduled rapid combustions
[16:14] <RFleming> What all is it?  The move to 1.14 and better gtk3 support?
[16:14] <oswriter> i noticed it does look a little sharper, i assume that's the gtk3
[16:14] <ouroumov> RFleming, no, actually it's not GTK3 support, it's GTK3 transition, full on.
[16:15] <Akuli> i wonder whats going to happen to all the awesome gtk 2 applications i ise
[16:15] <Akuli> use
[16:15] <RFleming> oswriter, the only thing I care about (MATE wise) are separate panel icon support, so I can have monochrome icons in my panel :)
[16:15] <oswriter> RFleming, I hear ya, I like a good monochrome icon set myself
[16:16] <RFleming> I like pretty colour icons in caja, but I'd like all notification icons to look the same :)
[16:16] <RFleming> but I guess that's gnome2 style :)
[16:19] <RFleming> is mir rolling out in 16.10?
[16:19] <RFleming> or has it been pushed back again?
[16:20] <oswriter> i hadn't heard anything about mir in 16.10
[16:21] <oswriter> i know fedora is shipping wayland by default in its next release
[16:23] <RFleming> Has anyone else noticed that when Canonical goes away from what everyone else does... they end up going back to what everyone else does?
[16:23] <RFleming> upstart comes to mind
[16:24] <RFleming> I understand they want a unified ds for cross-platform compatibility... but could that not have been achieved with wayland?
[16:25]  * RFleming shrugs
[16:25] <RFleming> Sorry... should not talk politics in chat
[16:25] <RFleming> :)
[16:27] <ouroumov> It's on-topic, and there's no "don't say bad stuff against canonical" rule.
[16:27] <RFleming> ouroumov: true, but it's one of those polarizing topics.
[16:29] <RFleming> So for giggles yesterday, I tried to upgrade an old production server... running Intrepid :)
[16:29] <RFleming> I wanted to see how far I could get with it still functioning.
[16:30] <oswriter> How did it go?
[16:30] <RFleming> I went Intrepid->Jaunty->Karmic->Lucid ... then the wheels fell off
[16:30] <RFleming> I could not get do-release-upgrade to go from lucid to precise
[16:30] <ouroumov> haha
[16:30] <oswriter> heh
[16:31] <RFleming> I've never had apt prompt me before to answer 'Yes, do as I say!'
[16:32] <RFleming> it was fun though
[16:33] <RFleming> I think what made it go as far as it did, was the fact it's an old Ubuntu Server install, with minimal modifications done to it.  It was running CVS with the xinetd superserver
[16:56] <Akuli> RFleming, getting apt to ask you do that is easy
[16:56] <Akuli> just remove some package that your system absolutely needs to run, like dpkg or apt itself
[16:56] <Akuli> (no, don't do that)
[16:57] <RFleming> lol
[16:57] <Akuli> i do prefer aptitude though
[16:57] <Akuli> its just awesome in many ways
[16:58] <RFleming> Yeah...
[16:58] <Akuli> perfect translations to finnish, curses interface, built-in minesweeper...
[16:58] <RFleming> gcc needs minesweeper :)
[16:58] <Akuli> it doesn't moo, but it does have an easter egg :)
[16:59] <Akuli> i mean aptitude
[17:00] <RFleming> I would have beat it when I was compiling linux under Gentoo on a dual core AMD Athlon 64 X2 :)
[17:01]  * RFleming is feeding cats as an easter egg on my Android 7 phone :)
[17:02] <RFleming> an interesting easter egg in Nougat
[17:04] <RFleming> one of these days I should just alias apt to aptitude
[17:05] <RFleming> Oh god... I need eye-bleach!
[17:05] <RFleming> http://thelobbytx.tripod.com/index.html
[17:05] <RFleming> I can't believe we made web pages look like that
[17:06] <RFleming> the horror!
[17:17] <blinko> Hi, I want to install ubuntu mate on an old laptop that comes with two hard drives. I would like to configure the system to use lvm 2 volume groups. I can't do it via the gui is there a way to install everything manually from the terminal?
[17:22] <Akuli> you can do anything from the terminal you can do from the gui
[17:23] <Akuli> you could use this with ubuntu https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/apds03.html.en
[17:23] <Akuli> but its going to be difficult
[17:23] <Akuli> so i'd just recommend getting an ubuntu mini.iso and using that
[17:23] <Akuli> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD
[17:24] <blinko> ok, thanks.
[17:24] <blinko> I'll give it a shot
[17:24] <Akuli> after installing with your mini.iso you want to change your /etc/apt/sources.list to ubuntu mate stuff
[17:24] <Akuli> and run a sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[17:24] <Akuli> then you should be able to install ubuntu-mate-desktop and it should work
[17:25] <blinko> Akuli: Thanks :)
[17:26] <Akuli> if you have any trouble with that ask me :)
[17:29] <Akuli> i would actually recommend you do that with 14.04 if the computer is old
[17:29] <Akuli> 14.04 will be supported until 2019
[17:30] <blinko> It is not that old, my cousin got a new computer and he says that windows is slow so I am trying to get him to try linux :).
[17:31] <Akuli> one problem you might run into is that the old computer probably doesn't boot from a usb stick
[17:31] <Akuli> but thats easy to work around
[17:31] <blinko> It does I already tried it
[17:31] <Akuli> oh :) there you go
[17:31] <Akuli> its not that old then
[18:20] <RFleming> Curious question.  Why would anyone still use LVM when filesystems like btrfs and zfs are available?
[18:21] <RFleming> wasn't LVM kinda a stop-gap type measure to offer features missing in the EXT series of filesystems?
[18:21] <RFleming> ... don't get me wrong, I'm still using EXT4 without LVM
[18:26] <alkisg> btrfs has a lot of issues, it's not really ready for wide use
[18:27] <Akuli> i don't really care about what filesystem i run :D
[18:27] <Akuli> its ext4 without lvm
[18:27] <alkisg> Ah, you haven't yet lost 10 years of valueable data, that's why :D
[18:28] <Akuli> i don't really have anything valuable
[18:29] <Akuli> all i care about is my programming projects and they're all in github and cloned on many computers
[18:30] <RFleming> alkisg: if you've lost 10 years of valuable data, you haven't been doing backups
[18:31] <RFleming> and if you've only had one backup source... well :)
[18:34] <allanViking> I've been trying to google this to no avail, but is it possible to switch my stock ubuntu 16.04 LTS running mate-desktop into Ubuntu Mate 16.10 beta? I have everything mounted via chroot in livecd atm, because I totally destroyed everything whilst trying to upgrade from 14.04->16.04. I dont want to do a fresh install, as my mate is very heavily con
[18:34] <allanViking> figured and I have hundreds of apps installed
[18:36] <allanViking> right now it doesnt even boot past initramfs, so im hoping to nail 2 flies with 1 stone so to speak: by upgrading to sth I've wanted for a while and during the process hopefully fixing my system
[18:36] <alkisg> RFleming: yes, when that happened I couldn't afford a second hard disk :)
[18:36] <RFleming> allanViking: the only thing I can think of is do-release-upgrade -d
[18:37] <RFleming> but has 16.10 gone beta?  Last I knew it was still Alpha 2
[18:37] <allanViking> sorry, I meant alpha
[18:37] <RFleming> I don't believe do-release-upgrade -d upgrades to alpha releases
[18:37] <allanViking> it seems stable enough for me, I've used alphas in the past
[18:37] <allanViking> it doesnt:
[18:37] <allanViking> # do-release-upgrade -d
[18:37] <allanViking> Checking for a new Ubuntu release
[18:37] <allanViking> No new release found
[18:37] <RFleming> allanViking: you can get the alpha iso and boot off of it and do an upgrade
[18:38] <RFleming> I think the alpha installer will allow that
[18:38] <allanViking> RFleming: will it keep all my current apps and settings for mate?
[18:38] <RFleming> allanViking: it should
[18:38] <RFleming> no promises though.  It is alpha :)
[18:38] <allanViking> haha :D
[18:38] <RFleming> allanViking: you have a good backup?
[18:39] <allanViking> maybe its better to upgrade my stock 16.04 into Ubuntu Mate 16.04 with the iso on then upgrade that into alpha?
[18:39] <RFleming> Uhh... maybe
[18:39] <RFleming> I hate playing with different WMs though... it always screws something up
[18:40] <allanViking> I only need mate anyways
[18:40] <allanViking> I've been using it since 1.6
[18:40] <RFleming> you poor thing you :)
[18:40] <allanViking> :D
[18:40] <allanViking> but installing ubuntu-mate-desktop into a stock ubuntu will not make it into 100% the same as Ubuntu Mate ?
[18:40] <RFleming> allanViking: no, it won't
[18:40] <allanViking> I want everything to be GTK3, because I have HiDPI screens
[18:41] <RFleming> allanViking: oooh... you're going to have a hard time with that then :)
[18:41] <allanViking> I already resolved it it with xrandr scripts - I have tons of monitors with tens of combinations
[18:41] <allanViking> no way any display app can manage that
[18:41] <allanViking> hopefully it will stay working
[18:42] <RFleming> you may need a tiling wm :)
[18:42] <allanViking> I've resolved that aswell, with quicktile
[18:42] <allanViking> the HiDPI screen is just 15.4" though
[18:42] <allanViking> but I tile everything on my 3 screens
[18:42] <RFleming> what sense is that?
[18:42] <RFleming> why would anyone make a hidpi screen that small?
[18:43] <allanViking> business class laptop
[18:43] <RFleming> it's like making a 24" TV 4K
[18:43] <allanViking> i think 24" should be atleast 4K :D
[18:43] <RFleming> it must be a Dell
[18:43] <allanViking> I dont understand why people dont look at pixel densitu
[18:43] <allanViking> nope, Thinkpad all the way
[18:44] <allanViking> IPS 3K panel
[18:44] <allanViking> all other laptop panels look like **** compared to this
[18:44] <allanViking> but my external monitors are old LCD's ~23", not hiDpi - configuring that was tricky at first
[18:46] <RFleming> allanViking: going back to your question... I'd make a thorough backup of your system, and try to upgrade using the Mate 16.04 iso
[18:46] <allanViking> RFleming: I am doing it as we speak
[18:46] <allanViking> hopefully I dont loose my mate-panel settings
[18:46] <RFleming> if it doesn't work out, you can just reinstall Ubuntu 16.04 and restore overtop
[18:47] <allanViking> I'l try the 16.10 alpha2 upgrade route first
[18:47] <allanViking> its not like its gonna break anything further on a broken system :D
[18:47] <RFleming> this is true
[18:47] <RFleming> OK... back to fixing vulnerabilities
[18:47] <allanViking> backing up etc should be enough to keep my settings? I have my files on other disks and partitions
[18:48] <RFleming> today it's mitigating a kernel bug.
[18:48] <allanViking> thank you :)
[18:49] <allanViking> I am hoping to one day contribute code to Mate aswell
[18:49] <RFleming> allanViking: it depends on how you're backing up.  I have a shell script that makes a tar.gzip archive of everything on my system with the exception of /dev /proc and /sys... and a couple of other locatinos
[18:50] <RFleming> if my system ever blows up, I install fresh, and extract over top the newly installed system and reboot.
[18:50] <allanViking> I have home var and opt elsewhere and in the past I have installed a new system and then moved home and opt back, merging etc
[18:51] <RFleming> allanViking: why move them?  Use bind in fstab and bind their locations to known ones
[18:51] <RFleming> (assuming they're on different disks)
[18:51] <makka> Hello! bit of a noob question i guess, but whats the best wau
[18:51] <allanViking> I do use bind actually, I was just simplifying :p
[18:51] <RFleming> Welcome makka!
[18:52] <makka> way of SSH into the PI using mate?
[18:52] <makka> Hello o/
[18:52] <RFleming> makka: from Windows, or linux?
[18:52] <makka> linux
[18:52] <makka> ubuntu to be exact
[18:52] <Akuli> should be pretty easy
[18:52] <RFleming> ssh pi@<ipaddress>
[18:52] <Akuli> of course, you want to install openssh-server on the pi first
[18:52] <makka> i read you needed to install a ssh client?
[18:53] <Akuli> your ubuntu will tell you if you haven't installed it
[18:53] <RFleming> makka: on the Pi, you need an SSH server.  openssh-server to be exact
[18:53] <Akuli> you also need to add your pi to /etc/hosts on the ubuntu
[18:53] <makka> right, ill crack open a term and give it a shot
[18:53] <Akuli> sounds like a lot of work, but it really is not
[18:54] <RFleming> Any sys admins in here... https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2016-5696.  You'll want to patch that up
[18:54] <Akuli> makka, actually you don't need to have the pi in /etc/hosts if you type out its ip
[18:54] <Akuli> you can find that out by running ifconfig on the pi
[18:55] <makka> openssh-client is already the newest version (1:7.2p2-4).
[18:55] <makka> comes preinstalled i see
[18:56] <makka> derp, thats the client ^^
[18:57] <makka> guess they both do actually
[19:00] <makka> ah awesome, that was much simpler that it looked on reading, Thanks guys!
[19:01] <makka> can i use the pi's external ip?
[19:01] <Akuli> makka, i'd use the one the network is using
[19:01] <Akuli> run /sbin/ifconfig on the pi to find out
[19:01] <makka> if for instance i wanted to use it from work?
[19:02] <Akuli> i guess you can, i've never succeeded with that though
[19:02] <Akuli> you also need to allow ssh through your firewall if you use one
[19:02] <Akuli> e.g. sudo ufw allow ssh
[19:03] <makka> can only see an internal here, suspose i can use a website to find my ip, but that
[19:03] <makka> that's dynamic right?
[19:04] <makka> heh, im sure ill figure it out, afterall i was doing this stuff 10 years ago as a kid with RS servers and noip.org DNS ^^
[19:04] <makka> thanks again for the help guys!
[19:12] <blinko> Hello, is there another way to install ubuntu mate with custom partitioning (raid / lvm) other than doing https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/installation-guide/amd64/apds04.html ? I am afraid the end result will differ too much from the GUI stuff.
[19:13] <blinko> Is there a script or code I can look into? Thanks
[19:44] <RFleming> blinko: I think the only way you'll be able to do this custom type of install, is to partition manually from the live cd, and then when you go to install chose the 'something else' option and just use the setup you've already created
[19:45] <RFleming> So basically, do what you need to from the live cd, then run the installer
[20:33] <mrbhardw> hi
[20:33] <mrbhardw> need help from experts
[20:35] <blinko> RFleming: Thanks
[20:35] <RFleming> blinko: np :)
[20:35] <mrbhardw> can any one plz reply ?
[20:36] <RFleming> mrbhardw: we need a problem first
[20:36] <mrbhardw> i have issue with my screen..
[20:36] <RFleming> ask your question, then wait for your answer
[20:36] <mrbhardw> it flaps when i run my laptop with external monitor
[20:36] <mrbhardw> sure..
[20:37] <mrbhardw> thought no one recieving my chat ..new this Linux world
[20:38] <RFleming> uhh, it flaps?
[20:38] <yanflap> flaps?
[20:38] <mrbhardw> i mean flicker ...
[20:39] <mrbhardw> same if i play any movie on vlc
[20:40] <mrbhardw> does any one encounter this issue before ?
[20:42] <fabio_> ciao
[20:43] <mrbhardw> RFleming ??
 ??
[20:43] <RFleming> mrbhardw: I am not the expert you need
[20:43] <RFleming> perhaps there are experts on video in #ubuntu
[20:43] <blinko> is this it ? https://aboutsimon.com/blog/2016/07/20/Ubuntu-16.04-external-monitor-flickering-and-turning-off-on-intel-i915.html
[20:45] <mrbhardw> lmc
[20:46] <mrbhardw> thanks..blinko
[20:46] <mrbhardw> i will try this..
[20:47] <blinko> just to be safe ask in #ubuntu as RFleming suggested
[21:04] <mrbhardw> mrbhardw@MRBHARDW-IN:~$ sudo dpkg -i linux-headers-4.4.14-040414_4.4.14-040414.201606241434_all.deblinux-headers-4.4.14-040414-generic_4.4.14-040414.201606241434_amd64.deblinux-image-4.4.14-040414-generic_4.4.14-040414.201606241434_amd64.deb
[21:04] <mrbhardw> dpkg: error processing archive linux-headers-4.4.14-040414_4.4.14-040414.201606241434_all.deblinux-headers-4.4.14-040414-generic_4.4.14-040414.201606241434_amd64.deblinux-image-4.4.14-040414-generic_4.4.14-040414.201606241434_amd64.deb (--install):
[21:04] <mrbhardw>  cannot access archive: No such file or directory
[21:04] <mrbhardw> Errors were encountered while processing:
[21:04] <mrbhardw>  linux-headers-4.4.14-040414_4.4.14-040414.201606241434_all.deblinux-headers-4.4.14-040414-generic_4.4.14-040414.201606241434_amd64.deblinux-image-4.4.14-040414-generic_4.4.14-040414.201606241434_amd64.deb
[21:04] <mrbhardw> mrbhardw@MRBHARDW-IN:~$
[21:55] <tiox> I've already done it, but is there any reason why someone would need to add the PPA for UM's MATE 1.14 GTK3 aside from GTK3?
[21:59] <ouroumov> Still haven't found one
[22:00] <tiox> lol
[22:01] <tiox> Well, that's sort of what I wanted to know; Maybe Martin knows since he continues to build for it.
[22:01] <ouroumov> I think there's better hi-dpi support
[22:01] <tiox> He has to be building the GTK3 MATE packages for some reason, right?
[22:01] <ouroumov> But it's of limited interest for me because max res 1920x1080
[22:01] <tiox> That could probably be it.
[22:02] <tiox> I was hoping it would allow for truly transparent panels like on XFCE but nope.
[22:02] <ouroumov> What does "Truly Transparent" means? :o
[22:03] <tiox> Either with or without the PPA, the alpha on panels is faked unless you force the entire panel to have alpha, which would affect all parts of the panel rather than the background colour.
[22:04] <tiox> If you make any panel use alpha with background colour, you don't see the content underneath the panel, but it still uses a portion of your desktop background.
[22:04] <tiox> Now, on DockX, Plank, and xfce4-panel, you can use alpha and see content underneath it.
[22:05] <ouroumov> By faked you mean what's behind is redraw?
[22:05] <tiox> That's what I consider "True transparency" or "True alpha"; being able to see the content underneath. It's like how some terminal emulators do with fakeargb; You see the desktop background when there is nothing else opened, but the moment there is another window under it you see the desktop background still instead of the content underneath.
[22:06] <ouroumov> oh
[22:06] <tiox> Also, I guess it's redrawn, whatever you want to call it.
[22:06] <tiox> It looks crap and dated af.
[22:08] <tiox> I should provide another example some time with a Ubuntu MATE live session and install xfce4-panel just to show what I am talking about. Backport compiz, enable screensaver, make the cube rotate and take a screencap.
[22:08] <tiox> (And it probably occurs in COmpton too but the cube's the easiest way I could show what I am on about.)
[22:09] <tiox> Or it could be a Compiz 0.8-specific problem, like what I encountered with the dock panel robint99 maintains.
[22:09] <tiox> s/dock/applet
[22:09] <tiox> Grgh.
[22:10] <tiox> Dock applet, rather, not dock panel lol
[22:13] <ouroumov> No actually you're right.
[22:14] <ouroumov> Icons behind panels get cut.
[22:14] <ouroumov> In Compton
[22:14] <ouroumov> It's only visible with an autohiding panel
[22:14] <tiox> Wait what?
[22:14] <ouroumov> Because when it's not autohide, you can't put the icon half through the panel
[22:15] <tiox> So true alpha occurs ONLY with autohide?
[22:15] <tiox> That seems like bullocks to me.
[22:15] <ouroumov> What? No
[22:15] <ouroumov> I'm saying you're right, it looks fake since the icon gets but by the background
[22:17] <ouroumov> See https://i.imgur.com/uWlCR4S.png
[23:00] <oswriter> So I'm using 16.10 Beta and trying to setup Keyboard Shortcuts. Everything works fine except when I try to set a shortcut for Caja. It simply doesn't work. I noticed this same issue in 16.04 but I worked around it by typing the full command path instead of just the command. But in 16.10 it doesn't work either way.