| mapps | hi:D | 04:01 |
|---|---|---|
| brobostigon | morning boys and girls. | 06:05 |
| diplo | Morning all | 07:58 |
| BigRedS | hello! | 08:05 |
| foobarry | not getting hangouts notifications since moving to cm13. any suggestions? i have checked notifications and also mobile data settings | 08:20 |
| foobarry | just cleared a load of stuff and will wait for new message | 08:25 |
| popey | odd, i get them on cm13 | 08:29 |
| TwistedLucidity | foobarry: If it's important, they'll call you. :-) | 08:30 |
| === SuperMat1 is now known as SuperMatt | ||
| foobarry | omgubuntu mentioned a tool called peek to record a selection of your screen as a gif, really nifty | 09:00 |
| foobarry | http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/08/peek-desktop-gif-screen-recorder-linux | 09:00 |
| awilkins | Hey there | 09:19 |
| BigRedS | Goooood Morning! | 09:19 |
| awilkins | Thunderbird with integrated Lightning - does the packaged version installed by default have Lightning? | 09:19 |
| foobarry | on its a plugin | 09:20 |
| foobarry | on=no | 09:20 |
| awilkins | I installed it and got a popup saying that Lightning was integrated with Thunderbird now (I understand they package it in the default downloadable install) | 09:21 |
| awilkins | With keep / disable / remove buttons | 09:21 |
| foobarry | oh, which linux distro/version? | 09:21 |
| awilkins | 16.04 / tbird 45 | 09:21 |
| foobarry | oh i'm on 38.6 | 09:21 |
| awilkins | But I can't find any of the calender UI now I removed the plugin | 09:21 |
| awilkins | So I'm guessing it's just a silly notifier popup | 09:22 |
| foobarry | ctrl-shift-c | 09:22 |
| awilkins | Ok, that doesn't work after I remove Lightning add on | 09:22 |
| awilkins | So I guess "integrated" means "bundled" and the Debian package hasn't bundled it | 09:24 |
| awilkins | But I'm getting the "This item has been recently updated on the server ... " infinite loop bug | 09:26 |
| awilkins | Which makes the calendar plugin a bit pointless | 09:26 |
| BigRedS | I've never really got the lightning plugin to work; calendar's another thing that's basically best-done in the browser now I think | 09:26 |
| awilkins | It works quite nicely with Outlook over EWS now (Hooray for Erikkson) | 09:27 |
| awilkins | And I've not had trouble with the Google calendar plugin before | 09:27 |
| awilkins | Deleted the event via the web UI | 09:50 |
| awilkins | Constant bleating has stopped | 09:50 |
| foobarry | watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmBSh1FGQyY instead of buying the good boss, bad boss book | 09:55 |
| TwistedLucidity | On 45 here, guess I didn't notice Lightning coming in by default; I always install it anyway | 09:56 |
| foobarry | i find 1hr talks are better than wading thru a long book contain 5 points | 09:56 |
| Safiyyah | Hi guys, my system died at the recent automatic upgrade and I am now inclined to ubuntu mate | 11:39 |
| Safiyyah | Linux mint is also seeming likea viable stable option. | 11:39 |
| Safiyyah | I also have a laptop which I bought a few months ago and that too has slowed down (blame bulky windows) but it is nice to see that I still hate windows. Despite their upgrades. For the laptop I am inclined towards solydk or Linux mint I appreciate your experience and opinions as always. | 11:41 |
| Safiyyah | Is anyone here? | 11:43 |
| TwistedLucidity | I like Kubuntu, but you need to install Kubuntu Backports PPA to get stability. | 11:46 |
| TwistedLucidity | Each to their own. | 11:46 |
| Safiyyah | I had xubuntu for the last two years | 11:48 |
| Safiyyah | I don't like fiddly bits, that was what scared me about kubuntu | 11:48 |
| popey | i like ubuntu mate :) | 11:48 |
| popey | mate is nice and familiar | 11:48 |
| Safiyyah | Its going back to 6 years ago when things were nice | 11:49 |
| diddledan | for the australians there should be an Ubuntu Sport as well as Mate | 11:49 |
| diddledan | and for us brits an Ubuntu Buddy | 11:49 |
| TwistedLucidity | Needs a Scottish version, Ubuntu Pal | 11:49 |
| diddledan | and a Mr Robot: Ubuntu Friend | 11:50 |
| Safiyyah | TwistedLucidity. I was thinking about solyk for my laptop because I like alot of the kde apps | 11:50 |
| TwistedLucidity | Never used it. | 11:50 |
| Safiyyah | Okidok. | 11:50 |
| TwistedLucidity | If you like KDE, consider Neon (User edition) | 11:50 |
| diddledan | and one for my brother: Ubuntu MeOldMucker | 11:51 |
| Safiyyah | Popey does mate have the apps connected like amazon etc? | 11:51 |
| Safiyyah | I didn't want to see anything that resembles unity for the rest of my life | 11:51 |
| popey | O_O | 11:52 |
| popey | uh, no | 11:52 |
| TwistedLucidity | I thought the whole Amazon thing was over, no? | 11:52 |
| popey | yes | 11:52 |
| diddledan | I had no issue with the Amazon tie-in | 11:52 |
| popey | it was massively blown out of proportion | 11:53 |
| popey | but shouldn't have been landed when it did IMO | 11:53 |
| diddledan | Canonical is a commercial company and they need to find _some way_ to generate revenue to survive | 11:53 |
| TwistedLucidity | It was an interesting idea, but it made me uneasy the way it was done. I guess /some kind/ of web shoppery app would be good; tieing into Canoncial or no. | 11:54 |
| diddledan | afaict the amazon stuff was heavily anonymised | 11:54 |
| popey | we tried | 11:54 |
| popey | it failed | 11:54 |
| popey | meh | 11:54 |
| Safiyyah | Okay but no unity like stuff. | 11:54 |
| Safiyyah | I didn't liks unity at all | 11:54 |
| TwistedLucidity | If you don't like Unity, avoid GNOME. | 11:54 |
| popey | MATE is nothing like Unity | 11:55 |
| popey | it has a nice feature that you can make it look like any other desktop | 11:55 |
| diddledan | Gnome is alien to me now | 11:55 |
| popey | which is pretty neat. | 11:55 |
| TwistedLucidity | Well, I guess it depends on /what/ you don't like about Unity. | 11:55 |
| Safiyyah | Okay the bomb is my laptop also has a touch screen. | 11:55 |
| popey | I use MATE on a Thinkpad X61s and it flies along nicely | 11:55 |
| TwistedLucidity | In that case, a more touch-friendly DE like Unity might not be a bad idea. | 11:56 |
| TwistedLucidity | I used Unity when demoing stuff - it works rather well. | 11:57 |
| Safiyyah | I can tolerate gnome fairly well. Unity is.... Welll like windows in a different layout | 11:57 |
| TwistedLucidity | I think you mean "Windows is like Unity" :-) | 11:58 |
| Safiyyah | Okay popey am sold on mate for thw desktop | 11:58 |
| TwistedLucidity | Don't like it? Just install another. That's what's great about F/OSS | 11:58 |
| * diddledan FLOSSes his teeth | 11:59 | |
| Safiyyah | Help with the laptop please. Solydk or mint, bear in mind there js a touch screen to configure later | 12:00 |
| Safiyyah | TwistedLucidity I like to get rhe system going and nit have to think about it again for a couple of years. Sorry | 12:01 |
| TwistedLucidity | Do you intend to use the touch screen? | 12:02 |
| Safiyyah | I only come here when my computer decides to die. Like now. I am not a fashionable distribution tryer or whatever the hype distro people are called. | 12:02 |
| Safiyyah | Yes as a mouse. To click etc | 12:02 |
| TwistedLucidity | I have never used Mate of KDE on a touch device. I know KDE is looking at/improving touch support but that is all. | 12:03 |
| TwistedLucidity | Ho hum | 12:03 |
| Safiyyah | I got disconnected | 12:09 |
| Safiyyah | Sorry about the touch screen | 12:09 |
| Safiyyah | I was trying to get your advise | 12:09 |
| Safiyyah | Advice* | 12:09 |
| popey | not many linux desktops work well with a touch screen | 12:10 |
| popey | most were designed before touch screens were commonplace on desktop/laptop computers | 12:10 |
| Safiyyah | Okay | 12:10 |
| Safiyyah | So that is something I will have to fiddle with at a later | 12:11 |
| Safiyyah | No worries | 12:11 |
| Safiyyah | I will be back when I get stuck with the install | 12:11 |
| Safiyyah | Thanks so much | 12:11 |
| popey | no problem | 12:11 |
| Safiyyah | Y | 12:13 |
| foobarry | wow. dropbox, douchebox | 12:35 |
| foobarry | didn't mention passwords were taken. also the email they sent was a bit fuzzy. "yeah you haven't changed your password in ages, why not try now?" | 12:36 |
| BigRedS | https://www.troyhunt.com/the-dropbox-hack-is-real/ ? | 12:36 |
| foobarry | "The attack took place during 2012. At the time Dropbox reported a collection of user’s email addresses had been stolen. It did not report that passwords had been stolen as well." | 12:37 |
| === pavlushka is now known as Guest11248 | ||
| diplo | Going for my first real / proper interview tomorrow since starting to work 20+ years ago, Devops Engineer - Any tips guys ? I've read up on the company and job spec, anything else that's normally asked. | 14:00 |
| penguin42 | diplo: They might ask you to code/solve a problem | 14:01 |
| foobarry | they might ask you what devops is | 14:02 |
| foobarry | and what you understand by automation | 14:02 |
| penguin42 | that would be cruel | 14:02 |
| diplo | They Sorry the phone went as soon as I typed that out | 14:08 |
| diplo | They've defined what devops is for them in the job spec | 14:08 |
| popey | They may ask you for your own war stories, problems you've overcome, conflicts you've resolved, money you've saved. Basically Achievements you've unlocked. | 14:09 |
| diplo | It doesn't appear to be any coding/problem solving according to the key points | 14:09 |
| foobarry | whats yr favourite config mgmt system and why | 14:09 |
| diplo | Yeah, I've been working on them | 14:09 |
| diplo | They use puppet/chef etc, I use ansible.. better have a read up on that too :) | 14:09 |
| foobarry | probably no time to deploy a test system | 14:09 |
| foobarry | also version control | 14:10 |
| foobarry | some git commands | 14:10 |
| penguin42 | maybe some networking type questions? | 14:10 |
| diplo | I'll find out someone from there is in here now | 14:13 |
| diplo | They run ubuntu/debian :) | 14:13 |
| foobarry | i use puppet and github all the time but wouldn't be confident in a true devops engineer job. fortunately a lot of those job titles are just trendy names for sysadmins | 14:13 |
| diplo | https://www.actual-experience.com/jobs/devops-engineer/ | 14:13 |
| diplo | Is the job | 14:13 |
| zmoylan-pi | fingers crossed your interview goes well | 14:14 |
| diplo | ta fanx, don't get nervous about much but this seems to be making me :P | 14:15 |
| penguin42 | what a mix of programming languages; python, erlang, bash, perl, javascript | 14:15 |
| penguin42 | I forget which ones use Erlang | 14:15 |
| diplo | Whatever happens, it's a notch for experience on interviews if anything | 14:15 |
| diplo | I do them all apart from erlang, heard of it, but never coded in it before | 14:15 |
| foobarry | essentials are a bit broad | 14:19 |
| foobarry | they expect an expert in docker, openstack and vmware? | 14:19 |
| foobarry | in my experience you are one of those, not all | 14:20 |
| zmoylan-pi | at newbie rates of course... :-) | 14:20 |
| foobarry | oh and programming languages | 14:20 |
| diplo | Most job specs are broad like that too | 14:20 |
| diplo | I've found | 14:20 |
| foobarry | its not helpful | 14:20 |
| foobarry | either they want sysad, programmer, or devops guy | 14:21 |
| diplo | It's not at all, but in the spec I got sent instead of the website, they aren't looking for a specialist in all, but as long as your know docker is not a tupperware dish we're onto a good start | 14:21 |
| foobarry | maybe they will choose someone they like chatting with | 14:23 |
| diplo | From the thing the recruitment person sent through, it appears it maybe a fair bit of getting to know and a feel of the person, maybe someone they can work with and ply to their ways :) | 14:24 |
| foobarry | unzipped a massive 7z file with "e" instead of "x" | 14:29 |
| foobarry | :'( | 14:29 |
| foobarry | no folder structure | 14:29 |
| zmoylan-pi | geek world problems... | 14:31 |
| diddledan | https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2016/08/31/runaway-teen-hops-on-facebook-to-ask-police-to-use-nicer-mugshot/ | 14:52 |
| zmoylan-pi | they should have photoshopped the new pic ugly and used it | 14:53 |
| popey | or asked fb / isp for the details of where she connected from | 14:54 |
| zmoylan-pi | i think she's been picked up since | 14:54 |
| Safiyyah | I decided to install Linux mate. However after a successful installation it tells me there is no boot loader. I put the swap partition as well | 15:09 |
| Safiyyah | No idea what I have done wrong | 15:09 |
| penguin42 | Safiyyah: Did you manually parititon or just let it do it's own thing? | 15:09 |
| popey | tsk tsk | 15:10 |
| popey | :) | 15:10 |
| Safiyyah | Manually | 15:12 |
| Safiyyah | I was also getting rid of the windows partitions | 15:12 |
| Safiyyah | Shall I run the installation again? | 15:12 |
| Safiyyah | I left the efi windows boot loader and did the swap, root, home and storage areas and had some free space left | 15:13 |
| Safiyyah | Well the good news is my touch screen was working during the installation | 15:15 |
| Safiyyah | And on the try out | 15:16 |
| penguin42 | Safiyyah: Try an automatic installation | 15:16 |
| Safiyyah | Okay | 15:16 |
| Safiyyah | Running one now | 15:16 |
| Safiyyah | It still says no bootable device even after a fresh install | 16:02 |
| popey | maybe go to the mint support channel? | 16:03 |
| Safiyyah | I installed ubuntu mate | 16:03 |
| Safiyyah | Not mint | 16:04 |
| popey | oh, you said "Linux mate" which I assumed you meant linux mint :) | 16:04 |
| popey | sorry. | 16:04 |
| Safiyyah | Oh sorry | 16:04 |
| popey | is this a desktop or laptop? | 16:04 |
| Safiyyah | Laptop | 16:04 |
| popey | did you install off a usb key or something? | 16:04 |
| Safiyyah | I am yet to touglch the desktop | 16:05 |
| Safiyyah | Yes usb | 16:05 |
| Safiyyah | I changed the boot order to the hdd first as well | 16:05 |
| popey | which version of ubuntu mate? | 16:05 |
| popey | where'd you get the ISO? | 16:05 |
| Safiyyah | 16.04 | 16:05 |
| Safiyyah | Ubuntu mate website | 16:06 |
| popey | ok | 16:06 |
| popey | what happens when you try to boot the laptop? | 16:06 |
| Safiyyah | It says no bootable device | 16:06 |
| Safiyyah | I think it has no boot loader | 16:07 |
| popey | what was on it previously? | 16:07 |
| Safiyyah | Windows | 16:07 |
| Safiyyah | 10 or 11 | 16:07 |
| popey | so this is a relatively new laptop? | 16:07 |
| Safiyyah | Yep new this april | 16:07 |
| popey | I wonder if this is a secure boot thing | 16:08 |
| penguin42 | Safiyyah: Make/Model? | 16:08 |
| Safiyyah | Might be, I didn't request to turn it off | 16:08 |
| Safiyyah | Acer aspire r3 | 16:09 |
| penguin42 | Safiyyah: Do you have the full model, apparently the r3 has been going for years | 16:09 |
| popey | probably on a sticker underneath | 16:10 |
| Safiyyah | N15W5 | 16:10 |
| Safiyyah | That is the model number | 16:11 |
| penguin42 | thanks | 16:11 |
| Safiyyah | I know I have 4gd ram ang 500gb storage | 16:12 |
| * penguin42 sees someone seems to have had mint running on it; so if that works a straight Ubuntu probably should | 16:12 | |
| popey | I expect you may need to do some fiddling in the BIOS/EFI thing | 16:13 |
| Safiyyah | I never installed mint | 16:13 |
| popey | I haven't had any machines like this so can't really help there | 16:13 |
| Safiyyah | I got it from the shop with Windows | 16:13 |
| Safiyyah | It became a slow snail after a windows update | 16:13 |
| Safiyyah | Decided to leave windows alone | 16:14 |
| Safiyyah | I put ubuntu mate | 16:14 |
| Safiyyah | And now it is not happy | 16:14 |
| awilkins | Secure Boot works in my experience | 16:21 |
| awilkins | Although I've had to disable it for unsigned drivers (VirtualBox kernel driver) | 16:21 |
| awilkins | In general the installer will install you up in the mode you were when you booted, and EFI works too | 16:22 |
| awilkins | Is it a RAID thing? | 16:22 |
| awilkins | If the Windows install was on RST / RAID mode, I've had to disable RAID mode to get Ubuntu to install | 16:23 |
| awilkins | But conceivably it could be a RAID thing that the LiveUSB supports for install but grub can't boot??!? | 16:23 |
| Safiyyah | I am in the bios and it has secure boot mode as standard | 16:25 |
| Safiyyah | The only thing it is asking me to do is to set the password, I can't change anything else, just see the status | 16:25 |
| Safiyyah | The section which says 'select an uefi file as trusted fpr executing is disabled | 16:27 |
| Safiyyah | I cannot change it. Sorry about the typos am using the phone | 16:28 |
| Safiyyah | Hmm i think this is part of raid, nothing to do with Windows | 16:28 |
| Safiyyah | I keep being disconnected if I leave the window | 16:37 |
| Safiyyah | Does anyone know what to do about the secure boot thing? | 16:37 |
| foobarry | shame there isn't a geek equivalent of bakeoff | 19:02 |
| foobarry | build a computer , write an app, fix a broken tablet | 19:02 |
| zmoylan-pi | i miss the great egg race with heinz wolff | 19:02 |
| foobarry | build an airfix kit | 19:03 |
| foobarry | the great british hack off | 19:03 |
| zmoylan-pi | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Egg_Race | 19:03 |
| penguin42 | that was good | 19:10 |
| penguin42 | Scrap yard was I guess the mech-head equivalent | 19:10 |
| zmoylan-pi | a computer based one would be... difficult as the potential audience would be so small... unless you aim it at an online market | 19:11 |
| zmoylan-pi | there is robot wars currently but that's more about the performance and control than the design | 19:12 |
| zmoylan-pi | i must have upset ubot... all those poor bots... :-P | 19:13 |
| popey | Just watched the Robot Wars final. Sam loved it | 19:22 |
| foobarry | i'm a week behind. just watched the 5thepisode | 19:27 |
| foobarry | great porogramme . my wife likes it too | 19:28 |
| foobarry | its quite popular with some non geek women i know | 19:28 |
| foobarry | actually my wife is geekier than me, just in different ways | 19:28 |
| daftykins | hey folks \o | 20:10 |
| penguin42 | hey | 20:10 |
| diddledan | hi de ho | 20:13 |
| daftykins | i've been away in the land of "oh you're going away for 3 weeks? suddenly we have lots of last minute work for you..." and also tonnes of Deus Ex play ;D | 20:13 |
| zmoylan-pi | you're repelling down k2? can you just dial in and reboot server x? | 20:14 |
| daftykins | :D | 20:15 |
| safiyyah | Hi | 20:39 |
| daftykins | lo | 20:40 |
| daftykins | what's broken this time? ;) | 20:40 |
| AndChat|326081 | I installed ubuntu mate on | 20:42 |
| AndChat|326081 | A laptop today which had windows it had secure boot | 20:46 |
| AndChat|326081 | No matter how many installations I run it still tells me there is no bootable device | 20:46 |
| daftykins | mmm sounds like the usual challenges - the best bet is to check the BIOS for any options to disable secure boot, or enable "legacy" / "CSM" | 20:47 |
| daftykins | if it's that cheap thing you bought then it'll likely be a challenge as i predicted at the time to get going | 20:47 |
| AndChat|326081 | Lol | 20:48 |
| daftykins | best thing you could do is upload a picture of each BIOS page to imgur.com and link it here | 20:48 |
| AndChat|326081 | Okay am here now I changed to legacy and no joy am I supposed | 20:51 |
| AndChat|326081 | I am just taking the pics | 20:53 |
| daftykins | it'll need reinstalling in legacy mode - you'll have to boot the USB flash drive as legacy, too | 20:53 |
| daftykins | !legacy | 20:54 |
| daftykins | !efi | 20:54 |
| lubotu3 | UEFI is a specification that defines a software interface between an operating system and platform firmware. It is meant as a replacement for the BIOS. For information on how to set up and install Ubuntu and its derivatives on UEFI machines please read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI | 20:54 |
| AndChat|326081 | Okay daftykins, changed to legacy, doing a clean install again | 20:58 |
| daftykins | make sure to boot the media in legacy mode, the above link shows how to tell the difference | 20:59 |
| daftykins | essentially white text menu on black background = EFI, purple image with logo bottom centre = legacy | 20:59 |
| StevenR | hmm. What starts all my qemu vms? | 21:50 |
| StevenR | ah ha. found. | 21:51 |
| zmoylan-pi | right, crisis averted, discovered i was down to just 5 tea bags left... | 22:05 |
| diddledan | politics: surely if the eu commission thinks that ireland broke the law with it's tax affairs with apple, then it should be ireland who have to pay the fine, not apple? | 22:07 |
| zmoylan-pi | the irish people can pay €14b no problemo. of course we might need a few new ministers after a few are lynched... | 22:08 |
| zmoylan-pi | the hq of one of the parties involved... https://twitter.com/DaithiHealy/status/771002327167799296/photo/1 | 22:09 |
| zmoylan-pi | and they have already changed the laws so the loopholes all the american companies that have european hqs in ireland (ms, amazon, ibm, apple, facebook etc.) will probably be gone in 2020 when it's shut | 22:11 |
| diddledan | \o/ | 22:12 |
| diddledan | I wonder where they'll go | 22:12 |
| zmoylan-pi | wherever their accountants will tell them they can save money | 22:12 |
| diddledan | it's bad news for the Irish economy though :-( | 22:12 |
| zmoylan-pi | it will hurt. but if the only thing keeping them here was a scam for them then it had to be broken | 22:13 |
| zmoylan-pi | ireland is the hq of apple, yet has no apple stores | 22:13 |
| zmoylan-pi | nearest one is in belfast which is the uk | 22:13 |
| * daftykins swaps all those apples for spuds | 22:13 | |
| diddledan | I've got an apple store in my town | 22:14 |
| diddledan | POTATO! | 22:14 |
| zmoylan-pi | and we seem to already have swapped american companies using us for tax convenience to air leasing companies using us as a flag of convenience for leasing planes... | 22:14 |
| diddledan | potato said as an exclamation by an irish accented person is fun | 22:14 |
| diddledan | just randomly pipe-up "potato" | 22:15 |
| daftykins | i think we'd have sustained a few injuries to the head by now if we were over there though | 22:16 |
| daftykins | saying these things | 22:16 |
| zmoylan-pi | of 20,000 large planes flying at any time on the planet, 8000 are leased and half of those are leased out of ireland... http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/its-boom-time-for-aircraft-leasing-in-ireland-30319106.html | 22:16 |
| diddledan | wow | 22:17 |
| diddledan | that's an impressive stock of rentals | 22:17 |
| zmoylan-pi | it came a bit of suprise a few months back to discover through leprechaun economics that ireland is doing /well/ in air transport | 22:18 |
| diddledan | new ithingies in 7 days | 22:26 |
| diddledan | who wants one? | 22:27 |
| zmoylan-pi | what i want, what i really really want is a new psion with wifi, blackjack and hookers | 22:27 |
| zmoylan-pi | and you can keep the blackjack and hookers | 22:27 |
| zmoylan-pi | 1st day of autumn... | 23:05 |
| zmoylan-pi | well proper autumn that is | 23:06 |
| penguin42 | diddledan: It's all horribly messy isn't it | 23:08 |
| penguin42 | diddledan: And the Irish are saying the law is perfectly legal thank you very much (which it may well be) | 23:09 |
| daftykins | i'm already eyeing up Rocky Mountain National Park t-shirts i can buy when i am over in Colorado next week 8D | 23:25 |
| zmoylan-pi | it maybe that a deal was done when apple was pre jobs coming back and apple was on last legs... and it just didn't get relooked at after they became the money printing juggarnaut they are now | 23:31 |
| zmoylan-pi | it's odd that apples share of mobile market is sinking down to the same levels their desktop os had back then. even if it's super profitable you wonder can it last | 23:45 |
| daftykins | took a few generations for their customers to see they all do the same thing :) | 23:46 |
| penguin42 | zmoylan-pi: the super profitable is all you need; you don't actually need share | 23:46 |
| daftykins | the state their all in one desktops (iMacs) and laptops (Macbook Pros) are in though, oof - hardware hasn't been refreshed despite superior intel chips, in like 900 days | 23:47 |
| zmoylan-pi | penguin42 they had super profitable back then too but it faded as early new software appeared first on other platforms | 23:47 |
| penguin42 | zmoylan-pi: Right, so they've got to get enough share to keep new software development for their platforms | 23:47 |
| zmoylan-pi | they _owned_ the dtp market plus a few others and were considered unreplaceable in those markets | 23:48 |
| penguin42 | zmoylan-pi: and video editing and graphics and a few others - but they were miles ahead in hardware and base OS at the time | 23:48 |
| zmoylan-pi | and it seems to me at least they're making the same decisions again | 23:48 |
| zmoylan-pi | and music | 23:49 |
| zmoylan-pi | but as important as they were there it wasn't enough... | 23:49 |
| penguin42 | zmoylan-pi: Not once you can do the same thing on cheaper platforms | 23:49 |
| zmoylan-pi | the idea of doing dtp on windows was considered laughable... | 23:50 |
| penguin42 | zmoylan-pi: I mean I remember back in ~1992 Macs could do lots of separate displays each with different bit depth and resolution and have windows split across them; can platforms do that these days? | 23:51 |
| * zmoylan-pi remembers doing cad on dos/windows with multiple screens then too... | 23:51 | |
| zmoylan-pi | 'twas a wee bit of a black art getting the hardware not to explode :-) | 23:52 |
| penguin42 | with different screen depths? | 23:52 |
| zmoylan-pi | one was console 80x25 and other was vga/svga for graphical output | 23:52 |
| penguin42 | that's cheating; I mean multiple bitmapped | 23:53 |
| penguin42 | with a window dragged across the join | 23:53 |
| zmoylan-pi | oh... x windows could be done on dos then too.... deskview people did it... | 23:53 |
| penguin42 | yeh but I'm not sure X can do that; in fact I'm pretty sure it can't | 23:54 |
| zmoylan-pi | let me look, i think it could... i had some dealings with deskview so saw a lot of them pushing x on dos. could be wrong mind... | 23:54 |
| diddledan | even mswindows is having issue with multiple dpi levels | 23:54 |
| diddledan | osx does it fine | 23:54 |
| daftykins | diddledan: cat does the macarena - http://imgur.com/gallery/RGznj | 23:55 |
| diddledan | (I realise it's different to bit-depth) | 23:55 |
| diddledan | nawww | 23:55 |
| penguin42 | diddledan: Yeh in principal they're separate problems, but I think the structure means if you get it right you can cope with either; I think X suffers from having bit depth/dpi associated with the desktop (root window???) | 23:55 |
| diddledan | penguin42: I think you're right there. it seems from dpi issues that I've been having with buntu on a retina macbook pro connected to regular 72dpi external monitors that X is seeing it all as 72dpi | 23:57 |
| * zmoylan-pi reads the blurb on desqview/x from mag i probably read back then... :-) https://books.google.ie/books?id=6z0EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA15&redir_esc=y&hl=en | 23:58 | |
| penguin42 | diddledan: Yeh that's probably what I'd expect; I think there are some newer tweaks but I don't think there's anything that really works | 23:58 |
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