[01:53] chronic problem: Caja is not adopting the system theme. Anyone know why this is? [01:53] sometimes it starts from boot, and sometimes it happens later. no idea how to fix [01:53] sometimes a relog can fix, sometimes a reboot. sometimes not! [02:28] Hi, can someone suggest me what should i use to open .rar files.. [02:36] rar? [02:37] "unrar" [02:37] is the command [02:37] To extract file.rar file into the current directory, enter: [02:37] $ unrar e file.rar [02:37] unrar e filename.rar [02:54] nomic: sorry didnt sawa before your chat, ok i will try unrar now [02:55] seems that i have to install it [02:57] nomic thx works like a charm [03:03] being "how to extract rar files" [03:54] no one can help me with broken themes on Caja? [05:43] helo experts.. [05:43] need one help/// [05:43] while running you tube or vlc ...screen flickers.. [05:44] does any one have solution for this.. [05:44] Try this command: marco --no-composite --replace [05:44] Does this fix the issue? [05:44] nope.. [05:45] You already tried it, in 7 seconds? [05:46] was running this fro very first day.. [05:47] use omxplayer [05:47] on the raspberry pi 3 [05:47] This is on an rpi3? [05:48] well, if. [05:50] mrbhardw: is this on an rpi3? [05:51] He really doesn't want to say :) [05:52] ? [05:52] . [05:52] rpi3 ? [05:53] nomic suggested that you use omxplayer if you're using a raspberry pi 3 [05:53] And I asked if you are indeed using one [05:53] issue is with youtube as well.. [05:54] What is the output of this command? lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA [05:55] lspci -nn -k | grep -A 2 VGA [05:55] 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Intel Corporation Broadwell-U Integrated Graphics [8086:1616] (rev 09) [05:55] Subsystem: Toshiba America Info Systems Broadwell-U Integrated Graphics [1179:0004] [05:55] Kernel driver in use: i915 [05:55] OK so you're using intel graphics, no raspberry pi [05:56] And the output of this command? gsettings get org.mate.session.required-components windowmanager [05:56] mrbhardw@MRBHARDW-IN:~$ gsettings get org.mate.session.required-components windowmanager [05:56] 'marco-no-composite' [05:56] mrbhardw@MRBHARDW-IN:~$ [05:57] Are you using a custom xorg.conf? [05:57] nope [05:57] So you didn't set "tearfree", i assume [05:57] yes [05:58] i did'nt [05:59] I would try to switch back to uxa, rather than using sna. The default got to be sna for a couple of years, but it wasn't very maintained, and the ubuntu xorg maintainers in 16.10 are going to default to uxa again. [05:59] Ask in #ubuntu-x for more details [06:00] ok [06:24] woa - my pine64 actually working [06:24] what sort of a miracle is that [06:30] Any advice on Flash for pine-64 on ubuntu-mate [06:30] don't use flash :) [06:31] so is youtube out of range then [06:31] its not [06:31] nowadays youtube uses html5 [06:31] good to hear - more? [06:31] flash is legacy [06:31] excellent [06:31] how about nz Lightbox [06:31] whats that [06:31] i haven't ran flash in at least 6 months now [06:31] its an online TV channel in NZ [06:32] Maybe kodi can help there [06:32] It has a lot of plugins that don't need flash [06:32] if they are using old technology you need to run flash in firefox in wine, if not you don't [06:32] I don't think he can run wine in an arm platform [06:32] hmm [06:33] ...virtualbox? [06:33] not sure I want to retool to kodi [06:33] It's a different cpu, it would need an emulator [06:33] arm is already 10 times slower, adding an emulator would make it 100 times slower, like 1 frame per hour [06:34] ARM is fine for android, but it's not very well supported on gnu linux yet [06:34] (meaning all the gpu acceleration etc, not just the cpu) [06:35] rat - then I might need to retool to android [06:35] but I am trying to move entirely to linux [06:35] i mean [06:35] i can run linux on a 10 year old powerpc g3 [06:35] nigel: consider retooling to this: http://www.gearbest.com/tv-box-mini-pc/pp_343636.html [06:35] :) [06:35] so you must be able to use it on your arm device [06:36] Normal x86 64bit processor :) [06:36] Akuli: does your powerpc use the gpu to boot? [06:36] i dont know [06:36] Does it rely on the gpu for all the intensive operations, like video decoding? [06:36] That's where linux support has issues, and omxplayer etc are needed [06:37] i had some trouble with getting x to work and it was really slow [06:37] so i decided to just get rid of x and use it the real way [06:37] It's about the same for arm platforms. They're best suited for mobile phones, not for desktops. [06:37] i mean... it worked [06:37] Sure, rpi2 here works too, but it's not really usable as a desktop pc [06:37] if that was my only computer i would get my stuff done with it [06:38] I'll check it out [06:38] 256MB of ram was the only real limit, but other than that it was usable [06:38] looks OK - but my Pine64 was $15 [06:39] nigel: add the ram, sdcard, hmdi cables , case etc [06:39] There are cheaper ones as well, from 20$ [06:39] (including all those that I mentioned) [06:39] But if you want to do normal desktop work, better get a x86 machine [06:41] sd card was lying around, RAM included, hdmi cable also lyting around, case is made of cardboard [06:41] keyboard - $1 from charity shop [06:41] And 200 hours to get it to work in 1/10 of the real pc capabilities ==> priceless [06:42] If you want a print server, sure, use it [06:42] If you want a desktop pc, save yourself the time [06:42] Actually I had issues making rpi2 a print server, some lexmark printer only had x86 binaries [06:42] haha - its a photo server and a TV server [06:43] desktop is my $25 repurposed Dell Latitude [06:43] 21 euros: http://www.gearbest.com/tv-box-mini-pc/pp_401687.html [06:43] way faster than the RPi [06:44] quad core, designed as a tv box, using android, has binary gpu drivers for acceleration [06:44] Me, I do want to be able to use flash, so I don't buy arm [06:45] i don't, but i don't have any arm devices anyway [06:45] just powerpc, i386 and amd64. [06:54] ? === donny is now known as nisco [08:32] hello [08:32] How can I check all the peripherals before installing? [08:33] Try it with a live cd [08:33] I'm on the live session [08:33] Plug in the peripherals that you want to test, and see if they're working [08:33] I just like to see that everything works [08:34] the usb is working [08:34] internet too [08:34] is there a special way to check all? [08:35] Not really, e.g. you can't have a reliable test for devices that don't really work. Do it manually. [08:36] At some point there was a "checkbox" effort, but it didn't get far... [08:36] what would be the most important things to check for? [08:36] I'm new to linux [08:36] I have win 10 [08:37] I'd like to do a dual boot [08:37] The devices that are outside of your pc, like printer, 3g sticks... [08:37] I read it windows can cause problems [08:37] !dual-boot [08:37] Dual boot instructions: x86/AMD64: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DualBoot/Windows - Macs: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro https://help.ubuntu.com/community/YabootConfigurationForMacintoshPowerPCsDualBoot [08:38] i should disable secure boot [08:38] yes [08:38] windows 8 and 10 do cause a lot of problems when dualbooting [08:39] I would say "may cause if they're not handled properly" [08:39] Normally they don't cause any issues... [08:39] what would be your advice for me? [08:39] Follow the instructions... [08:39] :) [08:40] Yes they are clear, I just wanted to get more info for those that have done dual booting with win 10 [08:40] most importantly: if ubuntu doesn't detect your windows, cancel the installation and check whats wrong [08:41] you need to disable "fast boot" in windows power settings, which basically means it never shuts down fully [08:41] so you want it to do that [08:41] ok will do that [08:41] You can also reboot from windows, in order to boot from the live cd, instead of shutting down [08:41] reboot is always clean... [08:41] its behind something like "settings that are currently unavailable", you can probably find a nice tutorial from somewhere [08:41] alkisg, wow i didn't know that [08:42] It's because they hang a lot, and provide a way to clean up things :) [08:42] i guess i've just gotten used to operating systems that do what i want them to do :) [08:42] gparted will refuse to resize the windows ntfs volume if it's in use (hibernated etc) [08:42] because i've never actually had windows 8 or 10 on one of my computers [08:42] * alkisg had to install a lot of them recently, mainly for games for his kids... [08:43] I'll look for reboot from windows, that's new to me [08:43] I really like the aesthetics of ubuntu [08:45] I've searched on google and it only tells of rebooting windows itself === andreas_ is now known as Guest51241 [09:31] alkisg and Akuli, also others what do you think about the post i made on UM forum [09:31] https://ubuntu-mate.community/t/a-suggestion-how-to-powerup-ubuntu-mate-irc-support/8715/1 [09:33] nice idea, but then someone could just tell others to say thanks [09:34] and get a bunch of cookies without helping at all [09:34] logical: I didn't get the idea. For me, this channel should be specific to issues that belong to the ubuntu-mate code (desktop environment issues, seed issues etc), while the rest of the issues should be redirected to #ubuntu [09:34] i don't think that dividing these channels in half like that is good idea [09:34] "this does this, that does that" [09:35] E.g. suppose someone comes here and wants help installing phpmyadmin [09:35] different people need different kind of helping, some prefer a small channel and some need a big channel [09:35] Why would that be a topic of #ubuntu-mate instead of #ubuntu? [09:35] if that someone doesn't like big channels [09:35] emm alkisg you didnt get the idea xD [09:35] also why couldn't we help here with something not specific to mate? [09:35] logical: it's a "thank you" idea, while I think the main issue is the topics that we support... [09:35] i don't see any problems in that [09:36] akuli you just set the bot that the same person cant give cookies to the same guy for next 10 min [09:36] what if i just say "thank you"? [09:36] I believe that the person asking for phpmyadmin, would get more help from the 1000 persons in #ubuntu rather than the 100 persons here, because there would be less persons here actually using phpmyadmin [09:36] who's going to get the cookie? [09:37] alkisg, then that person can go to #ubuntu, which is currently how it goes [09:37] but i don't want to see people being forced to #ubuntu from here just because their problem is not mate-specific [09:37] Akuli: when people in #ubuntu ask offtopic questions, they redirect them to #ubuntu-offtopic [09:37] We don't have to be very strict [09:38] and we are not very strict right now [09:38] and i think thats great, lets keep it that way [09:38] Ofc the bot needs to be refined, i just put the idea, maybe if i say just thank you it can go to the last person that mentioned my name etc [09:38] But it's better if we inform the users where they'll get the best support [09:38] the reason for redirecting people away is that the channel is full all the time and there's not time for chitchat [09:38] which is obviously not a problem here [09:39] logical: about your idea, google for "irc bot karma plugin" [09:39] There are many karma plugins implemented [09:39] But I don't think I would feel better if I had e.g. 1000 thank you [09:40] It might help the new users a bit, so that they would trust someone more, if he had a lot of thank yous [09:40] Well the main point of my question is what do you think about the idea xD, it needs to be refined and prepared [09:41] I got the idea from the freecodecamp chat, since their chat have that ability it rly keeps the people chatting [09:41] I was thinking, what could be helpful is to have "shifts" for helpers. I'm not sure cookies are that good a motivation but what would be nice is if we find a way to maintain round-the-clock coverage of this place [09:43] but people who come here are volontering (i hope i wrote it nice xD) they are not paid members. I come at chat when i log in [09:43] i'm not able to come here regularly, and most other helpers aren't either [09:43] also i don't want a strict helpers-helpeds division [09:47] !karma [09:47] !thanks [09:47] You're welcome! But keep in mind I'm just a bot ;-) [09:47] ...we had a karma plugin activated in #ltsp... [09:49] We just needed to say !person+1 or something [09:51] lol [09:51] (Y) [09:52] karma seems to be highly motivating on stackexchange [09:52] compare the thorough helpfulness of replies on there, to traditional forums [09:53] (1) stackexchange has a "view profile" option, while irc doesn't, and (2) stackexchange is very focused on questions/answers, while forums are not that strict, and that actually motivates helpers looking to help rather than chat [09:55] their karma system isn't exactly motivating me though [09:55] true. and quantifiable rewards can demotivate participating "for the fun of it" [09:55] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc [09:55] im just looking at other peoples karmas like 10000something, mine is 11 [09:57] that too. different folks, and all. on any site I use that has a karma-like system, I notice every slight fluctuation, like a facebook friendlist junkie watches their friend count [10:15] hello [10:16] hello and bye [10:17] that happens in other channels, too. people leaving if they don't get a reply in one minute. what if the bot greeted people, could that help? [10:42] not bad idea olscumpy [10:55] can ubuntu mate do okay on a crappy old netbook that originally came with windows xp on it? or should I stick with the typical recommendation of lubuntu, xmonad, etc? I'm a little smitten with mate so far and the netbook is already running ubuntu 14 so it probably upgrades easy... [10:56] yes [10:56] i have ubuntu mate on my old laptop at the moment [10:57] and it works so nice [10:57] 2.0 dual core, came with 1 gb ram, some integrated graphic card 300+mb , i put 2x 2gb ram so i have 4, it works perfectly. I dont need anything better at the moment for my studies [10:57] 8y old laptop [10:58] cool. I only have mate on my good laptop currently [10:59] xfce is more resource heavy than mate (at least in my experience on this laptop) so i would suggest you to stick with mate, it is also very stable [10:59] only if your laptop is ultra old then.. :P [11:01] I would not suggest to go with Ubuntu for old pcs === pavlushka_ is now known as pavlushka [12:05] I like to workout! #chatisdead [12:12] busy :P [12:54] Hey I have on this pc win 7 and UM as dual boot. Now I want just to install UM, so I separated my disk like this 1 part is Win7 2nd Files (whenever i reinstall i keep important files in that part of hdd) and 3rd linux. Can i reinstall and still keep the "files part" as a ntfs. Do I have to manually delete windows and linux and create as one ext4 and swap partition? [12:55] doesn't really matter how you do it as long as you have an ext4 mounted at / and a swap [12:55] the swap should be about the same size as your ram, but it doesn't need to be more than 3GB [13:03] oops. my swap is 20 gb or so haha [13:06] right doesn't need to be that big :) [13:07] if you look at the system monitor you'll notice that its not being used much [13:08] wow. 20.8 MiB of 22.4 GiB [13:08] why does linux write it as mib? there's no i in that word [13:08] ok thx [13:09] olscumpy, its mibibytes [13:09] i mean [13:09] mebibytes [13:09] not megabytes [13:09] wild [13:09] 1000 of them instead of 1024 ? [13:09] something like that yes [13:10] i forgot which is which [13:10] it was always 1024 and "mega" when I used dos / windows [13:11] windows might be lying also [13:11] there's videos about this on youtube [13:11] there was an option during mate setup to make things 1000 or 1024 [13:11] i've never heard of that [13:11] maybe it was when I was setting up partitions [13:12] and was just for the one new partition I created [13:33] hello guys [13:33] is there a way i can install 4.8 kernel on ubuntu mate ? [13:34] are there any ppa's for that ? [13:34] why do you need it? [13:34] i run 16.04.1 [13:34] yes, but why do you need linux 4.2? [13:34] i mean 4.8 [13:34] problem is, i use docking station and intel pushed few bugfixes that i'm affected into their nightly build which will come mainline in 4.8 kernel... so far ubuntu mate is on 4.4 ... [13:35] https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89055 | https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92878 and another that i forgot link [13:35] Freedesktop bug 89055 in DRM/Intel "[SKL APL] WARN_ON(!wm_changed) hit in the WM code with multiple pipes enabled" [Major,Closed: fixed] [13:35] Freedesktop bug 92878 in DRM/Intel "eDP link clock recovery fails with *ERROR* too many full retries, give up" [Critical,Resolved: duplicate] [13:35] i guess you can build it from source if you really need to [13:36] that would be worst possibility :) [13:36] BlackPanx: this isn't related to mate specifically, it affects all ubuntu versions [13:36] i really would rather take ppa for it, so i can simply remove it if i hit some other problems [13:36] Normally newer kernels are available for lts releases, after each non-lts release is out [13:36] This is called "hardware enablement stack" [13:36] what does 16.10 come with? [13:37] So, when 16.10 is out, you'll be able to install the 16.10 kernel to 16.04 [13:37] I don't know [13:37] i thought it is already [13:37] But there's also the "mainline ppa" which has newer kernels that do not have the ubuntu patches [13:37] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/MainlineBuilds [13:37] You can get 4.8 rc4 from there [13:38] But when the 16.10 kernel becomes available in 16.04, you should switch to that one instead [13:38] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack [13:39] So, normally, the 16.10 kernel will be available for 16.04 at the time when 16.04.2 is out [13:39] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseSchedule [13:39] alksig that is awesome [13:39] thank you so much for detailed information [13:39] use "tab" to autocomplete usernames in irc, to get them right :) [13:39] You're welcome! [13:41] Btw, google says 16.10 comes with 4.8 [13:45] awesome [14:06] alkisg, would you suggest me normal mainline kernel from ubuntu or drm-intel-nightly kernel ? [14:07] i'll just try both and see how it goes [14:10] important note: if you want to choose your old kernel you can do that on startup, hold down left shift, go to advanced options and there it is [14:11] thanks [14:11] was it always left shift ? [14:13] i think so [14:13] most of the time i don't use the right shift anyway so i'm not sure [14:13] or if you dualboot to windows you get to that grub menu without holding down anything :) [14:29] hello [14:29] ? [14:30] hello :) [14:31] Hi, I was wondering if I could get help in ubuntu-mate 16. When I go to the software center on the "welcome" page all I get is package can't be found [14:45] 大家好 === pavlushka is now known as Guest64188 === pavlushka_ is now known as Guest93617 === Guest93617 is now known as pavlushka [18:59] Hi folks, I'm hoping you'll permit me to be teeeeetering on the edge of INSANITY [19:00] There is a bug... a really annoying one - one that is so pervasive it existed on 14.04 and now after installing 16.04 (fresh) i see it still exists [19:00] every time I've ever talked about it - no one has any ideas [19:00] but what it does demonstrate is this... ONLY AMERICANS USE UBUNTU MATE [19:01] they must! because everyone else must get really REALLY annoyed at the fact their keyboard layout *ALWAYS* resets back to en_US upon reboot [19:01] despite every config file, every dialog box, every setting saying en_GB (or whatever other language exists) [19:02] now I know americans are a deeply conceited folk and mustn't think all us other folks exist - but we do!! and some testing of other keyboard layouts would be handy! [19:02] I don't have that issue [19:02] Well I have it on like 5 different machines [19:03] p.s. I'm normally a very calm little IRC talker - but I've so GOT to fix this and I'm completely at a loss what it might be - I need IDEAS people! [19:04] errmm... Under keyboard preferences what do you see in the layouts pane? [19:04] rahtgaz, british [19:04] well English (UK) [19:04] No English (US) entry? [19:04] no just that [19:04] you have to add a 2nd English (UK) option, then remove the first one - and you'll magically find it works [19:04] until you reboot [19:04] where it'll be en_US again [19:04] What's the keyboard model? generic 105-key Intl? [19:05] yeah [19:05] this is a fresh 16.04 install ... no ibus or anything like that installed [19:05] actually I've just booted up my dell lappy (also has 16.04 on it) and that doesn't have the issue [19:05] I have no issue here English UK so I imagine there is something wrong rather than a bug [19:07] Go to language support under system->Preferences->Personal [19:07] Do you have anything there that is English (United STates)? [19:08] rahtgaz, the only languages which are not in grey (i.e. they're in black) on the Language tab are 'English (United Kingdom)' and 'English' (in that order) [19:08] hmm.. [19:08] i'm asking my partner to get his acer laptop - that has 14.04 on it I think - if that doesn't have the bug... then it must be something to do with the Logitech K360 keyboards I use both here at home and at work [19:10] right ok - his lappy is fine also [19:10] lemme reboot with a normal ps2 keyboard - brb [19:13] ok so at least things have conspired to help narrow this down a little... as my old ubuntu 14.04 hdd went from one pc to another recently - and the other it went to *doesn't* have a logitech k360 keyboard - it seems that it (I never noticed) no longer has the issue [19:13] so the OS hasn't changed - just the hardware it booted up on did [19:13] plus I just tried a ps2 keyb on the machine which isn't working now - works fine [19:13] and both laptops work [19:14] so all this time I've been thinking its multiple machines (at least 3 I use have a logitech k360 keyboard) it must just be some kind of odd reaction linux has to a k360 keyboard [19:14] in that case try to change the keyboard model to one of the Logitech ones. Probably Logitech Generic Keyboard [19:15] rahtgaz, ok - I can... sure.. but why? why when my own bios doesn't have an issue, and windows doesn't, heck even dos booted up from a usb pen doesn't (for firmware updates) would linux need to be difficult? [19:15] there is something more going on here [19:16] The 'why' I can't answer. We are still rying to find a solution. Sometimes the oddest problems only find an explanation after they stop happening [19:17] ok well i picked logitech/generic which instantly fixed it - but that doesn't mean anything - so does re-adding english (uk)... just rebooting now... [19:17] no still broke [19:17] that was fast [19:17] but that at least proves changing any setting in 'Keyboard' reminds it that it is doing something wrong [19:17] ssd - and it's a fresh install with nothing on it [19:18] this is 14.04, correct? [19:18] no it is 16.04 [19:18] but the issue existed in 14.04 as well - presumably releases in between too - but i don't use them [19:18] yeah, sorry. I emant 16.04 [19:19] i've got 4 machines running 14.04 and 2 running 16.04 in total [19:19] It's just moving to a PS2 isn't helpgul. I wished you had another USB keyboard around [19:19] i do - want me to try? [19:19] that would be better. if it happens also on that keyboard we know it's ubuntu-mATE fault [19:19] ah you think it might be usb keybs in general? good idea [19:20] i'll connect - then reboot it [19:20] btw i'm on another pc - which is why i don't go offline [19:20] * rahtgaz nods [19:20] lol - love it [19:20] connecting the usb keyboard instantly fixed both of them [19:21] lemme just reboot and reproduce that to be sure [19:24] yeah [19:25] same? [19:25] so i boot up with just the k360 connected (the little logitech unifying receiver) and open pluma... pressing shift+2 gives me @ not " [19:25] if I connect the little keysonic usb keyb i have - the k360 still does the same [19:25] but if I type on the keysonic [19:25] then both keyboards act as they should [19:26] it's like something is triggered in the background [19:26] this is on generic 105 int keyb btw [19:26] Right. I'd fill a bug on Ubuntu-MATE tracker for the logitech k360. [19:27] it'd be very unlikely it'd just be that one keyb though right? [19:28] I'm not sure. I find this problem one of the oddest things I've come across. I just can't see What could possibly cause this. [19:28] i can film this in action if you'd like lol [19:28] Not the keyboard for sure. It can't advertize its language (to my knowledge). The system doesn't care and actually usually asks us during intals... [19:29] wait... [19:29] all i know is the moment you type even a single character on the keyb that you connect 2nd (after it's all booted up) *then* the system realises it has *ucked up and the layout is fine on both keybs [19:29] Actually there might be a bug here... do you remember if during install you may have announced it as a US keyboard? Or no chance it happened? [19:29] i picked UK [19:30] alright. File the bug. They will know better what's going on [19:30] see i always found it bizare i never got this in ubuntu 16.04 or 14.04 mate vm's [19:30] i.e. it's always been a physical keyb thing - but wasn't sure until now it was just this one keyb [19:31] i'm wonder if i get this if I just leave the non-wireless usb keyb plugged in on boot [19:31] lemme try that [19:31] (i.e swap them over) [19:33] ok no - lol it's k360 only it seems [19:33] which would explain why so few (i.e. none) other people have been so irritated by this [19:33] you notice it more if you dual boot lol [19:34] still file on ubuntu-MATE. I just can't see how a keyboard can instruct the system to change its layout [19:35] the system doesn't think its layout has changed though [19:35] the system (using all known tools/options/dialogs - i've been through them all before) believes it is already on en_GB [19:36] i'm gonna do some more testing at work tomorrow - they have other logitech wireless keybs that use the Unififynig Receiver usb dong;e [19:36] *dongle [19:36] perhaps it is something to do with that [19:38] rahtgaz, could it be this? https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Logitech_Unifying_Receiver#Keyboard_layout_via_xorg.conf [19:38] which may explain why i never saw the bug in 12.04 [19:38] as that didn't have linux 3.2+ [19:39] or perhaps it did - hmm [19:40] Indeed. That explains it a lot better. A kernel module being behind the cause. I couldn't think on how hell would otherwise a keyboard layout change without you saying it so [19:40] rahtgaz, think I thought blacklist hid_logitech_dj and reboot - see if it works first time around [19:41] if I blacklist it - surely it'll just treat it as a normal USB hid [19:42]