[05:02] <mapps> hi
[07:15] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[07:56] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:09] <TwistedLucidity> o/
[08:22] <BigRedS> Goood Morning!
[09:13] <popey> http://zxrenew.co.uk/ - this is excellent
[09:13] <popey> high quality replacement speccy parts
[09:15] <TwistedLucidity> Hopefully someone will start manufacturing old skool analogue joysticks...I need one for my BBC
[09:18] <foobarry> i use to have an analogue joystick on my electorn
[09:18] <foobarry> electron with a plus1
[09:18] <foobarry> it was beige too with black stick. i didn't appreciate how awesome that joystick was
[09:19] <foobarry> and preferred my friends quickshot2 on my c64/spec
[09:25] <TwistedLucidity> Voltmace 4 evah!
[10:24] <Gargoyle> I've been using ubuntu server for web stuff since 6.06, but I've finally "de-Apple'd" my desktop tools and made the switch on the desktop too. Running on a MBP for about 48 hours now. Only dipped back into OSX to export my password manager data. Anyone else running on recent Apple hardware?
[10:26] <popey> woot
[10:28] <Gargoyle> Oh, how things have changed since the last time I used a full linux desktop (OpenSUSE 7.1) ;-)
[10:29] <popey> hehe
[10:29] <popey> Sound works, for a start :)
[10:29] <popey> (mostly)
[10:29] <Gargoyle> Indeed.
[10:29] <zmoylan-pi> when security meant not using floppies you found on ground outside...
[10:30] <Gargoyle> zmoylan-pi, And when you got a real physical box, and manuals... and a pin-badge (which I still have somewhere).
[10:32] <foobarry> the presenter view for google slides is so ridiculously tiny, you can't tell what the next slide is
[10:38] <Myrtti> and adding printers just works too, most of the time
[10:39] <Myrtti> it's glorious, I remember when my multifunction was automatically detected for the first time.
[10:39] <Myrtti> I cried.
[10:39] <zmoylan-pi> scanners do make things complicated on every os
[10:39]  * zmoylan-pi has scars mental and physical using scanners on windows
[10:41] <zmoylan-pi> and network scanners... ::eye twitch::
[10:43] <zmoylan-pi> a long way from my first scanner which was in dos scanning in hi res map of dublin into pcx format.  and as the scanner used only serial port on the pc having to use dos mouse emulator to select areas... :-)
[10:49] <Gargoyle> So should my old HP networked scanner printer just show up?
[10:50] <Myrtti> quite possibly
[10:50] <zmoylan-pi> i haven't touched a scanner since windows.  the flashbacks... :-)
[10:50] <Myrtti> if not, adding it is super easy
[10:50] <Gargoyle> Will have to have a poke in an hour - currently on 4G because openreach are playing around with my "broadband".
[10:50] <zmoylan-pi> now if i want a scan i just use a camera phone on a cradle to take image of documents that are placed at fixed distance below it
[10:50] <Myrtti> I have had Samsungs for ten years and I spent two days configuring and crying in the beginning
[10:58] <popey> I have an hp multi-device thing and it just shows up in Simple Scan on the network
[10:58] <popey> handy for scanning a pile of things, given it's in another room
[10:59] <Azelphur> I've long been after a cheap sheet-feeding scanner, doesn't seem like there are any in the sub-£200 range though, where I'd wanna pay like £50 :)
[11:00] <zmoylan-pi> and you rarely see them second hand as they are worked till they can't scan a single page
[11:02] <zmoylan-pi> there are build your own sheet feed options online probably
[11:57] <DJones> Azelphur: I've got a hp 8610 which works brilliantly with Ubuntu, Can probably get them for around £140, when I got mine it was £140, but I got £50 back
[11:58] <zmoylan-pi> yeah but that probably means filling in the forms... :-)
[11:58] <DJones> Sheet feeder, duplex, seperate ink cartridges etc
[11:58] <popey> thats the only think I miss on my hp laser, is no duplex
[11:59] <popey> btw, if anyone knows someone who wants to make games on Windows (for android, ios, html5, linux) the humble bundle deal is good as it has GameMaker (for Windows) and plugins for $15 https://www.humblebundle.com/gamemaker-bundle
[11:59] <zmoylan-pi> you can do duplex manually by printing odd pages and then refeeding and doing the even pages...
[12:02] <TwistedLucidity> And the re-print everything as you did the re-feed the wrong way round
[12:04] <zmoylan-pi> obviously you practice that first on a 5-6 page document and not the 300 page political manifesto you want to hand out at train stations... :-)
[12:15]  * popey covets http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Plessey-Peripheral-Systems-PT100-Very-Rare-Vintage-Computer-Terminal-/330816925879
[12:16]  * zmoylan-pi looks at the height and angle of the keyboard and remembers using similar and wonders how we didn't get rsi...
[12:16] <popey> they had super long coily cables
[12:16] <DJones> popey: Were they even around when you were young(ish)
[12:17] <popey> yes
[12:17] <popey> we used VT100's at college
[12:17] <zmoylan-pi> still around now... :-)
[12:17] <popey> we had high chairs and high lab desks, used to sit, reclining back with the keyboard stretched on our laps
[12:17] <DJones> Wow, looking at the dates, they looked obsolete even when I was in college (and I'm older than you)
[12:17] <popey> :)
[12:18] <zmoylan-pi> my first terminal... :-) https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Terminal-dec-vt100.jpg
[12:18] <popey> same, i loved them
[12:19] <DJones> I started with Apple II's for programming in Cobol, moved onto Amstrad 512's at university, although was using DRS 20 workstations/DRS 50 servers during work placement
[12:19] <popey> the smell when we powered them up in the morning
[12:19] <zmoylan-pi> local business had donated a dec to college for them to teach programming
[12:19] <popey> I have a VT101
[12:19] <popey> but the keyboard has loads of missing keys
[12:19] <DJones> Networking was tv coax cable
[12:19] <DJones> Internet didn't exist
[12:20] <zmoylan-pi> well web didn't exist
[12:20] <DJones> Yeah, thats true
[12:20] <popey> First proper computers I used were at Brooklands College. A Pr1meOS system with some odd Vt52 type terminals and a teletype for the guy who arrived late
[12:20] <popey> happy days
[12:20] <zmoylan-pi> i'd have been late every day :-)
[12:20] <DJones> Bring back CP/M
[12:21] <DJones> And choplifter on Apple's
[12:21] <zmoylan-pi> cp/m is making a little comeback at the mo
[12:21] <zmoylan-pi> a fair few z80 boards for it to run on
[12:21] <DJones> Iloved shooting all the guys I was supposed to rescue
[12:22] <DJones> I wonder if that counts as one the first "first person shooters" :)
[12:25] <popey> friend of mine wrote silly little games in basic on his calculator. with a one line display you had to leave a lot to the imagination :)
[12:26] <diddledan> popey: 80081355
[12:27] <diddledan> or the one you had to turn upside-down 22378008
[12:27] <diddledan> no, I got that wrong, it's 55378008
[12:28] <diddledan> as kids we had a lot of giggles over those
[12:30] <popey> i was reminded of those while watching the Extras outtakes on youtube recently
[12:48] <popey> You know your kids have been using your computer when there's chocolate fingerprints on the keyboard 😐
[12:49] <zmoylan-pi> thankfully chocolate digestives in the optical drive doesn't happen so much
[12:50] <diddledan> popey: I have chocolate fingerprints on my keyboard. I have no kids.
[12:51] <popey> :)
[13:07] <TwistedLucidity> Trying to add a static route in Ubuntu Server. Have added "up route add -net IP netmmask MASK gw gw-IP" to /etc/network/interfaces for eth1; bounced eth1; routes no showing.
[13:07] <TwistedLucidity> What did I miss?
[13:08] <TwistedLucidity> I normally do this on the desktop via a GUI...so I've probably missed something obvious
[13:09] <TwistedLucidity> I can do "sudo route add blah" without issue, but that won't be permanent
[13:19] <TwistedLucidity> By "static" I meant "persistent" i.e. survives reboot.
[13:22]  * diddledan reboobs TwistedLucidity's box so it forgets the route
[13:23] <TwistedLucidity> Meh. I've followed the docs (I think), it's not working
[13:23] <TwistedLucidity> I have reboobed the server to see if that does anything
[13:24] <TwistedLucidity> Uh-oh....now it's stuck reying to load the network configuration. :-(
[13:24] <diddledan> yey I broked it!
[13:24] <TwistedLucidity> Once it's back, I'll just have to remove the lines and add a script which needs run post-boot
[13:24] <TwistedLucidity> Pretty poor
[13:25] <BigRedS> I'd just stick the route add ... in /etc/rc.local...
[13:25] <Gargoyle> TwistedLucidity, Pastebin the full config file and which version of "Ubuntu Server" you are using.
[13:25] <BigRedS> oh, yeah, exactly like that
[13:25] <TwistedLucidity> According to the docs, that's not the place to put it
[13:25] <BigRedS> no, rc.local is like duct tape
[13:26] <BigRedS> it's very rarely the right thing to use, but sometimes you'd rather use it than spend half a day figuring out the 'right' way, especially when each is functionally equivalent
[13:26] <TwistedLucidity> I'm following this: http://askubuntu.com/questions/168033/how-to-set-static-routes-in-ubuntu-server
[13:26] <diddledan> with systemd rc.local can't be guaranteed to run last
[13:27] <TwistedLucidity> Huh...post boot *some* of the routes are now there
[13:27] <BigRedS> ah, another problem 'solved' by systemd :)
[13:27] <BigRedS> TwistedLucidity: might you've just typoed some of the up lines?
[13:28] <TwistedLucidity> Nope. If I copy&paste the line they work perfectly from the command line
[13:28] <TwistedLucidity> I wonder if the logs have anything....
[13:32] <TwistedLucidity> So.... I have "auto eth1 / iface eth1 inet dhcp / dns-search <names> / dns-nameservers <Ips> / up route add -net <IP> netmmask <MASK> gw <gw-IP>"
[13:33] <TwistedLucidity> Oh, that "netmmask" is a typo here, it's "netmask" in the file
[13:33] <zmoylan-pi> hmmmmm, m&m's....
[13:33] <diddledan> a faasand braan m&m's
[13:34] <TwistedLucidity> I managed to do this on CentOS easily enough (just added "IP/mask via gw-IP" to "/etc/sysconfig.network-scripts/route-eth1")
[13:35] <TwistedLucidity> No idea what I have wrong here
[13:37] <diddledan> does indenting make any difference? I forget whether it requires whitespace on the sub-parts of iface
[13:38] <sebsebseb> popey:  ping
[13:38] <TwistedLucidity> I've tried with and without. It's bizzare that it seems to respect it on boot (I'd put in different syntaxes and then rebooted as a test)
[13:39] <popey> sebsebseb: pong
[13:39] <sebsebseb> popey: no it's ok  found what I was after,  but yes about to fill in that form :)
[13:40] <TwistedLucidity> NO! Read the fine print. He wants your soul!!!!
[13:42] <sebsebseb> TwistedLucidity: no I want something from Canonical :d
[13:44] <TwistedLucidity> sebsebseb: The "Hoe to set permanent routes" dark magickz? Danger lies that way. Danger and madness I tells you.
[13:45] <TwistedLucidity> syslog "eth1 link is not ready". Hrm.....
[14:29] <sebsebseb> popey: ok done, not sure when you will go through those, but mine is in now :) hopefully will be accepted to :)
[14:32] <popey> ok
[14:37] <TwistedLucidity> Top-Tip: "ifup ethX" will report problems in your network config. "ifconfig ethX up" will not.
[14:37] <TwistedLucidity> Problems now solved
[14:39] <diddledan> what was the issue?
[14:41] <diddledan> parliament debated the petition to have a second brexit referendum on monday: (3hrs) http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/cb2f33f6-f9fe-463e-a6d5-40eca4b614c0
[14:50] <TwistedLucidity> diddledan: I had 1.2.3.0 with a netmask of 255.255.0.0. So swapped to 1.2.3.0/24 and so on
[14:51] <TwistedLucidity> Same syntax as I had in CentOS/
[14:51] <diddledan> /24 is 255.255.255.0
[14:51] <TwistedLucidity> Correct
[14:51] <TwistedLucidity> But was using netmask 255.255.0.0 - which seemed to be causing an issue
[16:53] <daftykins> time for fruity tech, diddledan!
[16:54] <MartijnVdS> raspberries and apples?
[19:47] <diddledan> dell has merged with emc/vmware
[19:47] <diddledan> or rather announced the merger
[19:48] <zmoylan-pi> if it were over already it would be more a crash/impact than merger... :-P
[19:55] <daftykins> just like the guy that drove into Putin's chauffeaur
[19:55] <daftykins> er -a
[20:46] <diddledan> morning
[20:46] <diddledan> what did I miss?
[20:49]  * diddledan watches the apple thingy
[20:50] <zmoylan-pi> blah, blah, no surpises...
[20:51] <diddledan> I like james corden asking tim cook about the security of the ipwn based on the lax security of apple allowing the information to be leaked