/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/09/08/#ubuntu-uk.txt

mappsmorning05:23
knightwiseGood morning mapps05:55
brobostigonmorning boys and girls.08:15
crogershello brobostigon08:16
brobostigonhi crogers08:17
davmor2Morning all08:18
crogersgoodmorning davmor208:19
crogersI have an idea.08:32
crogersIt would cure the problem of hotkey clashes between the window manager and the applications.08:33
crogersAll window manager hotkeys (moving windows, closing windows, etc.) always use the <Super> key.08:36
crogersAnd all applications should never use the <Super> key.08:37
crogersMost don't anyway.08:37
crogersThe only exceptions should be for copy/paste actions.08:37
crogersThough, those are application specific anyway.08:38
crogersThe only problem I can think of with this, is that everyone is used to switching windes with Alt+Tab08:39
davmor2crogers: do you use Ubuntu most of the keyboard actions revolve around the super key08:40
crogersYes, I do.08:40
crogersAnd the fisrt thing I always do is switch the Alt key with the Super key.08:40
crogersUbuntu is my only OS. I left Windows behind nearly 5 years ago.08:41
crogersI'm a designer, so I use the GUI heavily.08:41
BigRedSI don't think I generally have issues with shortcuts clashing between window manager and application, but maybe I've just got used to what doesn't work...08:42
davmor2crogers: I very rarely have any clashes08:42
crogersI use complex applications.08:43
crogersSuch as Blender 3D08:43
davmor2only time I really have issues is when I think I'm on one screen when I'm actually on the other and a key combination that moves to a different tab in one app closes the app in another :D08:43
crogersalt+click drag is a big problem.08:43
crogersshould be super+click-drag to move a window.08:44
BigRedSah yeah; ctrl-w not always just deleting the previous word keeps getting me in firefox and pidgin08:44
davmor2crogers: alt click is an Operating System standard08:45
crogersAlso, application devs should not have to dance around wm hotkeys.08:45
crogersdavmor2 I know. It's not a good standard.08:45
davmor2crogers: it works on Ubuntu mac and windows08:45
BigRedSis it objectively bad, or is there just something you'd rather it did?08:46
crogersIs it our mission to emmulate Mac and Windows crappy standards? :)08:46
crogerswm actions should always use the super key.08:46
crogersTo prevent clashes with applications.08:46
BigRedShaha, let's not emulate Wndows and instead use the Windows key? :)08:47
davmor2crogers: no it is our job to make computing as easy as possible so people moving from other operating systems can still use they Computing Standard shortcuts08:47
crogersIt's the <Super> key, not the Windows key.08:47
davmor2crogers: feel free to change it08:47
BigRedSbeing different from the established norms just to be different is a way to annoy people. Making things easier always has to take into account what people expect to happen; good UIs are not surprising08:48
davmor2crogers: no it has a windows emblem on it it is most definitely the windows key08:48
BigRedSmine definitely has a windows logo on it08:48
crogersBigRedS, It's not "just to be different"08:48
crogersBigRedS, so? Macs have an Apple logo on it.08:49
davmor2crogers: so there are 20 million plus users, I believe you are the first person I've heard complain about it08:49
BigRedSso why not emulate mac and windows' 'crappy' standards?08:49
crogersMine has a Tux on it.08:49
crogersdavmor2, from a developer standpoint it makes sense too, not just user.08:50
crogersAnd from distro to distro, they change.08:50
BigRedSthe defaults are normally baked into the WM, not the distro. Ubuntu's got a unique WM, but any Gnome3 install should use the same shortcuts, for example08:51
crogersSo application devs are forced to dance around various distro hotkey setups.08:51
crogersWell, wm setups.08:51
BigRedSI mean, I get that it'd be great if everyone just settled on your standard to use the windows key for all window manager shortcuts and leave ctrl, alt etc. for programs. But it'll be so annoying a transition that I'd probably rail against it if it were to happen on my PC :)08:52
davmor2crogers: you know I'll let you in on a secret most windows users don't know there are keyboard shortcuts, the ones that do are developers, and guess what they are the ones that would start complaining if we started messing with the computing standard shortcuts08:52
crogersIt would take a day to get used to it. :)08:53
BigRedSbecause I use a bunch of keyboard shortcuts that largely havent changed since I started using it, and none of them are particularly problematic to me08:53
BigRedShaha, no. I've tried changing things around before and I don't take well to it :)08:53
crogersdavmor2, if Windows users don't know there are shortcut keys, then there's no issue in "Transition" is there?08:53
davmor2crogers: it's the developer who have year of memory muscle for particular key combinations that would complain08:54
crogersBet I have more. :)08:54
crogersI'm a full time designer.08:55
davmor2crogers: by the way the wonderful thing about Linux is you can change things feel free to remap the alt+click to super+click08:55
crogersThink of how many hotkeys GIMP and Inkscape has.08:55
crogersOf course, both those programs combined don't have nearly as many hotkeys as Blendre 3D08:56
crogersI do.08:56
davmor2crogers: then what is the issue08:56
crogersEvery single time I install.08:56
crogersShouldn't have to. And I shouldn't have to post updates on how to use gconf editor to remap it every. single. time.08:56
BigRedShow many times does that happen?08:57
crogersAnd devs should not have to dance around wm hotkeys.08:57
BigRedSBut, yeah, it really ought to be easily programmable. I don't know if it is - I used to have a deb package that depended on the software I liked using and made all the post-install changes I wanted made to config files, but it just edited text files08:58
BigRedSI don't know what's involved in these brave new worlds, I'm using an xml-configured window manager these days...08:58
crogersmost tweak tools have it now.08:58
crogerswhich shows you that it is actually a problem for amny users.08:58
crogers*many08:58
BigRedSwhere 'it' is a programmatic means of fiddling with shortcuts?08:59
crogersBut you have to know to install tweak tools.08:59
davmor2crogers: our point is that 99% of the devs don't we setup Ubuntu for the 99% not the 1% that need it different08:59
crogerswhere "it" is the specific problem I'm talking about here.08:59
crogersCan you really use alt-drag to move a window in Windows?09:01
crogersOr Macos?09:02
crogersThe first time I saw taht was on a Linux machine.09:02
crogersAnd it's always gotten in my way. You're right though, 99% of Ubuntu users are not professional graphic designers.09:03
BigRedSthere's a reasonable argument to be made that you could compile a list of all the keyboard shortcuts on a modern PC and come up with some sort of sane and coherent keyboard mapping for them that's perhaps more intuitive and definitely more consistent and likely more learnable09:04
BigRedSwhich I suspect isn't far off what you're advocating09:04
crogersBigRedS, that's not my argument though. lol09:04
crogersIt's much simpler.09:05
BigRedSah, you just want something *differently* incoherent? :)09:05
crogersBigRedS, maybe I'm not explaining well enough? :)09:05
crogersLet me try again...09:05
crogersSay your an application dev.09:05
knightwisemorning everyon e09:05
BigRedSeither way, I think the downside is the same - you can make the case that this new way is objectively better and easier to learn and easy to develop for, but you can't really get around the fact that it's quite different to everyone's expectations, and that these expectations generally work for nearly everybody09:06
crogersaccording to davmor2 "everyone" doesn't even use hotkeys coming to linux.09:06
BigRedSI think most people generally use the mouse, yeah09:07
crogersIn 10+ years of using Linux, I never once felt the need to hotkey-grab my windows either. :)09:07
BigRedSas in alt+click to drag them?09:07
crogersSo there's an argument that can be made that this actually will not change very much at all.09:07
crogersBigRedS, yup.09:07
BigRedSwell, it depends whether you or I are representative of users09:07
crogersBut think of it from an application dev's point of view.09:08
BigRedSit's very easy to assume that whatever it is that I do must be the norm and the other ways of doing things are just superfluous and unneeded. You can see this assumption in lots of UXy bugreports09:08
crogersRather than compiling a list of all the hotkeys across all wms, you simply refrain from using the super Key.09:08
BigRedSOh, I don't consider developers. I'm a sysadmin.09:08
crogersThat's it.09:08
BigRedSyeah, and I'm not arguing that that's not a fine standard09:09
crogersIt's that simple. You can map any hotkeys you want as long as you don't use the Super key as part of the combo.09:09
BigRedSit's just it's also a surprising one, and I would find the surprise more annoying than I currently find the inconsistency09:09
crogersOkay, cool. Just didn't know if I was explaining well enugh.09:09
BigRedSah yeah, I just assumed that you saw a coherent and thought through complete set of shortcuts as an even better standard :)09:10
crogersOh gads, no. :)09:10
crogersThat would be aweful. :)09:10
crogersIt's already the convention for most things.09:10
BigRedShaha09:10
crogersIt's just not an official convention.09:11
crogersAnd it's most annoying presently in Unity/gnome/kde/etc09:11
crogersCome to think of it, it's not a problem in Windows.09:12
crogersI'd have noticed.09:12
crogersI think the worst shock would be that alt-tab would become <Super>-tab.09:13
BigRedSyeah, that was the point of the key, wasn't it?09:13
crogersYep. :)09:13
BigRedSto give Windows a key that didn't infringe on anyone else's stuff. But all these bloody hippies wanted nothing to do with the Windows key until someone thought up a new name for it09:13
crogersHahaha09:13
crogersDid Apple copy it, or did Microsoft?09:14
crogersThere's another bit of trivia. :)09:14
BigRedScopy what? the command key, or whichever apple key is the rough analogue?09:14
crogers<Super>09:15
crogersI think it's an apple logo on Mac keyboards.09:15
crogerscommand is equiv to ctrl09:15
crogersor is it alt...09:15
BigRedSI think Apples had that key before they got delete...09:16
crogersRight, but I think it is the <Super> key still09:16
crogersApple uses say "Apple"-C if it's <Super>-C09:17
crogersSo really, it's the Apple key, rebranded to the WIndows key.09:17
crogersWhich isn't better, but well, there it is. :)09:17
crogersLike I said, mine has a tux on it. :)09:18
crogersThough I'd rather have an Ubuntu logo, tbh09:18
crogersIt also highlights the importance of calling it the <Super> key. It's branding-neutral.09:19
crogersAlso, it appears that Alt+Drag is a compiz convention.09:22
crogersWhich explains why the first time I saw it was on Linux.09:22
crogersCompiz was one of the reasons I switched to Linux. :)09:22
crogersOh, the customisation power! *drools*09:23
crogersUsed to love to show people on their macbooks the enviable sh*t you could do with compiz, and a weekend of messing around. :)09:24
popeyThe Windows key has license implications along with it09:24
crogerspopey, that would not surprise me at all. lol09:25
crogersWhich is why we use the universal <Super> key.09:25
crogersPlatform agnostic, isn't it?09:25
crogersMy hope is that when laptops start rolling out officially with Ubuntu and an ubuntu logo on the super key, they still call it the Super key, and not the Ubuntu key. :)09:27
crogersThat way it can be distro agnostic too.09:28
popeyThat's not why we use the term <Super>09:30
popeyIt's more that free software types have an aversion to Microsoft branded or originated things09:30
popeySee also: Mono, PowerShell, VS Code.09:31
davmor2code wise it is actually called the meta key :D09:32
crogersThat ma be the reason, but a better reason is that there is no agreement on what the button was called in the first place.09:32
crogersdavmor2, I think that's a different key, actually.... :)09:33
crogersOr at least a different ascii value.09:34
crogersYes, the Meta key is now AltGr09:35
popeywell, it was originally called Super09:35
popeyhttp://world.std.com/~jdostale/kbd/SpaceCadet1.jpeg09:35
popeymany years before Windows existed09:35
popeySee also: Hyper key09:35
crogersYep.09:35
crogersHere's the askubuntu thread: http://askubuntu.com/questions/19558/what-are-the-meta-super-and-hyper-keys09:36
popeyfree software people call it super, windows people call it windows09:36
crogersSo it was Super first. :)09:36
crogersMS rebranded it.09:37
crogersOh man, I'm glad some of these keys are gone. lol09:39
crogersLike the thumbs-up and thumbs down keys. lol09:39
crogersOr are those what became arrow keys?09:40
GargoyleGoogle foo is failing at the moment. Is there a decent guide to migrating from unity to gnome, preferably for 16.04?09:52
crogersGargoyle, what do you mean by migrating?09:52
crogersLike just installing gnome wm?09:52
crogersI usually just open a terminal and type:  sudo apt-get install gnome-shell09:54
crogersthen you can just choose your wm at your login screen.09:55
crogersto do that, click the ubuntu icon in the login box, and choose the little foot icon for gnome09:56
popeythere is a task for it, like "sudo apt install ubuntu-gnome-desktop^"09:56
popey(note the caret)09:56
crogerspopey, does that do something different than just install gnome-shell?09:57
popeyyes09:58
popeyit installs what you'd get if you installed ubuntu gnome flavour09:58
popeyapps n'all09:58
crogersAh, yea, that would be horrible. :)09:58
crogersWell, for me.09:58
popeyit doesn't pull in much more than just doing the shell09:59
crogersIf you just want to switch window managers and leave everything else alone, I'd just go for gnome-shell09:59
crogersIn my case, it would probably break *something*.09:59
crogersI wonder is MS gets a kickback from every keyboard imprinted with their logo.10:02
crogersFor the SUper key.10:03
davmor2crogers: of course they do it is a windows logo10:03
crogersEw...10:03
crogersI guess that's somewhat better than buying a whole keyboard from MS though. :)10:06
crogersSHows how hard it is not to give MS some money.10:06
davmor2crogers: I do often they do good hardware, me looks over at his btle folding keyboard10:07
crogersYea, it's mainly that funding them funds thair nasty patent lawsuit threats against Linux and Open Source software.10:08
popeycrogers: if you ship hardware which contains a windows key, the terms of the windows license prevent you allowing that button to do anything other than launch the start button.10:08
popeymicrosoft have send the lawyers after very big names who did this10:08
dafty2Oy, delayed flight at Gatwick10:08
foobarrythats insane10:09
foobarryis it true?10:09
crogersYes, more reason to try to avoid funding MS. :)10:10
dafty2I missed something fun...10:10
popeyfoobarry: yes10:11
foobarryhttps://twitter.com/SopanDeb/status/773250721659486208/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw10:12
foobarrylolz10:12
BigRedSa discussion about the windows key and the non-standardisation of keyboard shortcuts10:12
crogersdafty2,  quick catchup from this morning: Topics: using the Super key to separate wm actions from application hotkeys so there are never any clashes, the Super key was actually the Super key before MS rebranded it the Windows key. Apparently MS gets a kickback for each keyboard imprinted with a Windows logo on that key.10:12
crogersAnd that's about it. :)10:13
dafty2I always call it Super for platform agnosticism! Thanks crogers10:13
Gargoylepopey, so would that leave me the same system config stuff (are they part of gnome or the unity shell)?10:14
crogersdafty2,  Hah! That's exactly what I said.10:14
GargoyleThere seems to me a serious lack of any kind of config options.10:14
dafty2I can't for the life of me connect to freenode from my digital ocean VPS10:14
crogerssudo apt-get install gnome-tweak-tool10:14
Gargoyledone that10:15
crogersSHould be about the same, just no duplicate or redundant apps installed.10:15
GargoyleWell, the unity one, at the moment.10:15
crogersnah, differnt one for gnome10:15
GargoyleOK. I'll have a play.10:15
crogersHave fun. :)10:15
GargoyleSo much easier when you just had to edit x.conf! :P10:15
crogersnnnghh. lol10:16
dafty2I was only just helping someone edit xorg.conf the other day, can't wait for that to die10:16
dafty2Different topic I know,but close ;)10:16
crogersdafty2, agreed hehehe10:17
crogersdafty2,  Oh, the fun bit of the previous conversation was actually spawned by a side-note that the Meta key is not actually the Super key.10:18
crogershttp://askubuntu.com/questions/19558/what-are-the-meta-super-and-hyper-keys10:19
dafty2Indeed it isn't! Think they were on sun machines though, meta10:19
crogersThe chosen answer is a great bit of info-porn with CS history and images. :)10:19
dafty2Ok I'm only on airport free wi-fi so I best scoot, not making much progress here.10:20
dafty2Delayed from 11am to 2pm :(10:20
crogersYikes! Cache a copy of Linux voice, fast!10:20
dafty2I have a nice book :) can't risk battery!10:21
crogersAh, no outlets at the airport?10:21
crogersNo smartphone?10:21
crogersNo Kobo e-reader?10:22
dafty2I'm typing from one yep10:22
crogers(which supports DRM free epub books)10:22
dafty2I like the break from screen time :) makes it a real holiday10:22
crogersNooooO!10:22
crogersYou're doing it WRONG! Must use all time to make progress on stuff!10:22
crogersANd drink buckets of coffee.10:22
* crogers envies people who can relax on holliday. (Enjoy!) :)10:23
crogersIf you get bored later, check these out: https://www.linuxvoice.com/creative-commons-issues/10:23
crogersLinux Voice Magazine releases all their older issues under Creative Commons License.10:24
crogersWhich is one reason I subscribe to their paper issue, to help fund them. :)10:24
crogersPlus, paper magazines are quite a novelty for me. Great battery life too!10:25
GargoyleBack on my broadband.10:27
crogersOn gnome?10:27
crogerser, in, rather?10:28
GargoyleNahh. Was on 4G. Openreach have been doing more tests.10:28
GargoyleFinally got an engineer with some common sense who has managed to compile some solid info.10:29
crogersFirst thing I usually do is switch the theme to gnome's default (it will be set to unity's default still.10:29
crogersBut that's just to fix the window corners.10:29
crogersGargoyle, do you use many gnome extensions?10:30
GargoyleLast 600m of cable is aluminium. This causes the drop from 40 meg down to < 1010:30
Gargoylecrogers, Only on linux desktop day 310:30
crogerseeep!10:30
crogerssuckage10:30
crogersAh. :)10:30
BigRedSI'm about to try to use sudo to give someone nearly-but-not-quite root. Is there anything good I ought to read first?10:30
popeyTheir employment contract? :)10:31
BigRedSI'm good with the syntax and (hopefull) most of the concepts, but surely someone's tried to let a user use find but not -exec and suchlike - I'm after elegant solutions to that sort of thing10:31
BigRedShaha10:31
BigRedShelpfully this is incompetence and not malice that I'm trying to guard against, but it's not formal enough for that :(10:32
popeywe used to break out of stuff like more/less etc which was fun10:32
popey(when I worked at a big diy store where they used AIX)10:32
popeywe'd pass notes around about "hey, if you need root, john knows"10:32
popeyI also worked somewhere where they bodged the systems such that you could get a root like account, but it logged _everything_10:33
popeyso if you ran top, their logs would be full of nonsense10:33
BigRedShahaha10:34
BigRedSyeah, stop putting me off this10:34
BigRedS:)10:34
crogersThink you can add user access to file folders.10:36
crogersThen they should be able to perform find tasks... but then execution... hmm10:36
crogersYea, nevermind. Not sure. :)10:36
popeywe also had a little c program which could elevate privs10:36
popeythat was handy10:37
popeywas called "utility" or something, and we'd use it in scripts, they never noticed10:37
crogersHehehe10:37
crogersGargoyle, once you get your bearings, I have some extensions that will make you whine about having to use other wm. :)10:39
foobarryimagine wroking somewhere without root10:39
foobarrythat would be sad days10:39
BigRedScrogers: ACLs? Yeah, can't quite be bothered to implement that10:40
popeyfoobarry: yeah, I had that!10:40
crogersNot only that, but all you have to do to install them is visit extensions.gnome.org in Firefox, and flip a switch on the extensions you want.10:40
popeyhad to fill in forms to get root, and they'd allow it per-account for a fixed period10:40
foobarryscrew that10:40
foobarryi mean, i do that to the users10:40
popeyIndeed, I did, 5 years ago :)10:40
Gargoylecrogers, cool.10:41
GargoyleI'll be looking for a good password manager, and sftp client.10:41
crogersExtensions + Mac-style expo when you hit the Super key make Gnome hard to replace for my purposes.10:42
crogersWell, old mak/compiz style.10:42
crogers*mac10:42
GargoyleDifferent from the default meta-w and meta-shift-w ones?10:43
crogersTry it. :)10:43
crogersOpen some programs, then just hit the Super key.10:44
crogersIt shrinks them all for you so you can see what you're doing.10:44
foobarryworks for me on elementary10:44
popeylike super+w on unity?10:44
crogersI typically have 7 different programs open, with multiple instances.10:44
foobarrysuper-S super-A etc10:44
Gargoylepopey, Ahh, so super-w is a unity thing, not a gnome thing?10:45
popeydunno, don't use gnome10:45
BigRedSit's new-window in firefox :)10:46
popeywat10:46
popeysurely that's ctrl+n?10:47
BigRedSyeah, it's that too10:47
foobarrynot sure what this conversation is actually about10:47
foobarrykeyboard shortcuts do different things in different DEs10:48
BigRedSI was only pointing that out because of crogers thing earlier about application devs just not-using the windows key for shortcuts10:48
crogersWhich is another reason to have the aforementioned convention.10:48
BigRedSand I found it amusing that firefox used it, but for something for which there's already a well-established norm10:48
crogersBigRedS, Yea, I find that there are a ton of little annoying things, which you tend to forget about, or forget around.10:49
crogersYes, Super w in Unity does roughly the same thing as just the super key in gnome.10:50
crogersExcept without the desktops.10:50
crogerswhich is a really slick feature.10:50
crogersAlso, Unity is about half as fast gnome shell is.10:51
crogersI'm not sure why though.10:51
foobarrythe dash, or just moving windows aroudn?10:51
crogersUnity slows everything down. I mean program launches, switching windows, and god help you if you try and use the super key on a netbook in Unity. lol10:52
crogersGnome is slow there too, but usable.10:53
foobarrychoose another DE?10:54
BigRedShah, I stuck Unity on my old mac mini the other day. That was abortive :) Modern linux desktops are definitely made for modern computers10:54
foobarrythere are really fast ones that have good bling and workflow10:54
crogersYea, actually Ubuntu Studio was perfect I found.10:54
foobarrywhat did that run?10:55
Gargoylepopey, what's the significance of adding the caret to "apt-get install ubuntu-gnome-desktop"?10:55
popeyGargoyle: installs the task10:55
crogersPartly due to the XFCE wm, and partly due to the low-latency complied core.10:55
crogersThe only problem is when you come back from suspend, and log in, your mouse cursor vanishes.10:56
foobarrycrogers: maybe investigate ubuntu MATE, elementary, and even solus project (if you don't mind being non ubuntu)10:56
foobarrythats a known bug in intel driver10:56
foobarryfixed now on my laptop10:56
BigRedShe did say Ubuntu Studio was "perfect", though, maybe no need to try anything else :)10:56
crogershave done, foobarry10:56
crogersUbuntu Studio was the best compromise.10:57
crogersNever tried Solus though.10:57
crogersMainly time limitations, but I like having a distro based on lts releases of ubuntu.10:57
crogersAnd it's primarily the wm that slows the system down.10:58
crogersOr at least, that's been my experience.10:58
crogersGnome is my fav wm currently, if I have the hardware to back it up.11:00
crogersclipboard manager, todo.txt, and drop-down terminal are just awesome.11:00
crogersI know there are variations for other wms11:01
crogersbut none heve the slick integration that these have with gnome.11:01
foobarrygnoem were promising some good apps, are they out yet?11:01
crogersOr at least none of the ones I'v tried anyway. :)11:01
foobarrynice photos app and others11:01
crogersfoobarry, more specifically?11:01
foobarrycalifornia calendar too11:01
crogersNot sure. My ver of gnome may be outdated now.11:02
foobarrycalifornia doesn't look much better than maya on elementary actually11:02
popeyjust switched to gnome shell to try it out, annoyed already :)11:03
crogersWell, you still cant double-click on a calendar entry to open calendar app in 3.18.511:03
davmor2popey: haha that didn't take long11:03
crogersSo that kinda sucks. :)11:03
BigRedScrogers: is that drop-down terminal a gnome thing or just something they've adopted?11:03
crogersWell, it's like guake.11:04
crogersbut slicker.11:04
crogersIt may be based on guake. I haven't a cluse. :)11:04
crogers*clue11:04
BigRedSyeah, I just remember guake having odd gnome3 theme bugs last time I was using modern desktops11:04
BigRedShaha11:04
* davmor2 sticks with byobu11:04
crogersI just like having a no-border drop-down.11:05
crogersit just looks amasing #hipster11:05
foobarryhttps://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Photos11:05
BigRedSahh, I have too many tabs for that11:05
popeyheh11:05
foobarrydoes photos app exist?11:05
popeyyes11:05
popeyone of the default apps11:05
BigRedSoh! I thought byobu was just a .screenrc, but it looks like it might actually do some stuff I find useful11:05
davmor2foobarry: still EOG under the shell just rebranded :)11:06
foobarryso where's all these awesome new apps they were released11:07
foobarryreleasing11:07
crogersbyobu is cool, but I find it more useful in-general to right-click in nautilus and choose "open terminal here"11:08
crogersSince I use terminal mainly to run graphical scripts.11:08
crogersAnd install stuff.11:08
crogersIf you saw my filesystem, you'd understand why. :)11:09
foobarryi like synapse11:09
BigRedSyeah, I do all my work in a terminal, and the notifications-to-desktop sounds useful11:09
foobarryelementary terminal does that too11:10
BigRedSbut I ssh elsewhere to run tmux *there* and hop on to other things, so it's probably too convoluted to be reliable. And do I really need to know when that rsync finishes?11:10
foobarrywhen your apt-get dist-upgrade finishes in another window you get notified11:10
foobarrya time saver11:10
crogersClipboardmanager is great too. keeps a rolling history of what you've copied, so you can retrieve it later, or with hotkeys.11:10
crogersAlso has a privacy mode switch built in.11:11
crogersAnd you can erase entries by clicking the x next to them.11:12
foobarrywhere is clipboardmanager ? in the repos?11:12
crogersextensions.gnome.org11:12
BigRedSfoobarry: yeah, but I don't do very much on this PC - what I'm after is things that're two ssh hops away notifying me11:12
crogersnot sure if there's one for unity.11:12
foobarryugh11:12
foobarrygnome extensions made me sad11:12
BigRedScrogers: that's at thing I can completely see the use of, but I've never really found it myself11:12
foobarryi tried using gnome 3 for a month11:12
foobarrythen realised the gnome extensions were unstable and broke regularly11:13
BigRedSfoobarry: clipit is a traditional clipboard manager, not sure if it works in unity, though11:13
foobarryand also you couldn't update gnome if you wanted your extensions11:13
crogershttps://extensions.gnome.org/extension/779/clipboard-indicator/11:15
crogersSorry, got the name of it wrong11:15
crogerscontroll the settings of it in gnome-tweak-tool under extensions11:16
crogersfoobarry, yea, the popular ones get updated more regularly.11:16
crogersAnd tbh, I'd like something that works for other wms11:16
crogersbut... the pretty. :D11:17
crogersAlso not saying it's perfect.11:20
crogersThat calendar issue is... pretty lame. lol11:20
crogersI mean, it's not like there's not a calendar application.11:20
crogersbut to be useful in the top bar, you really should be able to call it up at the day you double-click on.11:21
crogersI'd also like the ability to search the file system within the file open dialog.11:24
crogersIn-general11:24
crogersI do miss one thing in WIndows though.11:31
crogersJust one really.11:32
crogersWhen re-naming a file, you could hit the tab-key and it would automatically skip to the next file to rename.11:32
GargoyleGnome... \o/11:45
BigRedSthat took some time!11:49
crogersis that a good \o/ or a bad \o/ :)11:49
GargoyleThat's an awesome \o/11:51
GargoyleIt's probably going to be worth the switch just for the hiDPI window scaling. :-)11:52
crogersHehehe.11:52
crogersYea, that is useful.11:52
GargoyleIs there a tool for configuring mouse buttons?11:52
crogersAlthough, I think you can tweak that in unity now too.11:52
Gargoylecrogers, It's crap in unity.11:53
crogersGotcha. :)11:53
Gargoyleyou get menu bars and title scaling, not the whole window contents.11:53
crogersHow many buttons you got?11:53
Gargoyle611:53
GargoyleTwo on the thumb side, normally have one of them doing the expose type thing which super key is doing.11:54
crogersUnfortuantely, the only way I know is by command-line.11:56
crogershttp://askubuntu.com/questions/152297/how-to-configure-extra-buttons-in-logitech-mouse11:57
crogersIt's... an ugly solution.11:57
crogersWould be a good summer project to write a gui front-end for it though. :)11:58
crogersWant to see something really cool in Gnome?12:00
crogersOpen a bunch of programs.12:00
crogershit the Super key12:00
crogersthen click-drag a few of them to the empty desktop12:01
crogersStep 3, profit.12:01
TwistedLucidityUmm....pretty sure I just bind the mouse buttons to an action; no need to extra magics12:04
TwistedLucidityLemme check....12:04
crogersIt really needs to be written into the mouse utillity.12:06
crogers*mouse and touchpad12:06
TwistedLucidityWell, I know it responds to all key inputs; just can't recall what I did.12:06
diddledanI'm in the market for a new phone. should I wait for october to see what google are gonna announce or drop the money on a nexus now?15:02
MyrttiI'm pretty close to getting a Moto X Force myself, still, since Moto Z Force looks like a feature disappointment for me15:04
crogersdiddledan I'd wait, personally.15:05
crogersIf not for the announcement, for the fact that everything else will get a discount when the new model comes out.15:05
Myrttihistorically the older Nexii have been on discount in store.google.com from about now-ish. Although I think last year they sold the old model with full price until stocks ran out.15:07
crogersI've also been tempted to go extreemly low-rent, just ot see. I've seen some off-brand Android phones go for less than £50, that got excellent reviews.15:09
diddledanwhatever I go for I think I want to ensure it has USB Type-C connector15:12
BigRedSI've just bought a new phone to get away from the relatively-cheap one I thought I'd probably tolerate15:13
crogersthis is adorable too: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013788QYI/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1460923884&sr=8-5&keywords=posh+phone&linkCode=sl1&tag=socialtech109-20&linkId=69c6db6ce7974ed66d2d7ac34ed9d79415:13
crogersI draw a lot on my phone, so there's really only one option for me at this point. :P15:15
BigRedSah, I tend to break my phones a lot so there's only two or three options for me15:16
crogersBigRedS, how do you typically destroy them?15:17
BigRedSmostly by drowning. I use them as satnavs on my bike15:17
BigRedSsometimes they fall off, too15:17
BigRedSactually, I bent one of them on a rollercoaster15:18
crogersBigRedS, have you considered an otterbox?15:19
crogersI'd take a serious look at the little one I posted a link to.15:19
BigRedSyeah, I had a samsung in an otterbox before I got the sonys. It was pretty good, but when it eventually leaks you get moisture between the screen and screen protector and the touchscreen stops working very well15:20
crogersPlastic exterior, £4015:20
crogersLooks like a nokia from 2005, it may be perfect! ;)15:20
BigRedSyeah, I find crap phones too frustrating15:20
GargoyleDoes anyone use a sonos system ?17:36
loptaMornin'19:40
Laneyhttp://www.threemediacentre.co.uk/news/2016/three-extends-feel-at-home-service.aspx20:50
* Laney snuggles Three20:50
* zmoylan-pi reports Laney to hr... :-P21:29

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!