[00:36] <ali1234> zmoylan-pi: for evading the "do not track" stuff i think
[00:36] <ali1234> and it wasn't apple, just some users. but maybe you're talking about something else
[00:38] <ali1234> oooh, that dropbox thing is really dirty. why would they do that?
[00:45] <zmoylan-pi> yeah it wasn't apple when i went looking it up.  it was the safari tracking cookie thing
[00:45] <zmoylan-pi> just in the mobile market everyone is suing everyone and it is hard to keep track sometimes :-)
[00:50] <ali1234> indeed
[05:35] <knightwise> Good morning
[08:22] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:23] <Gargoyle> o/
[08:31] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[08:35] <foobarry> wow mr robot latest episode was epic
[08:44] <TwistedLucidity> What channel is it on, and is it on catch-up?
[08:45] <foobarry> amazon prime
[08:45] <foobarry> and USA network channel in the states
[08:46] <TwistedLucidity> Ah. balls.
[08:46] <foobarry> yeah :9
[08:46] <TwistedLucidity> It'll be on Dave soon enough... :-)
[08:47] <TwistedLucidity> Still...new Red Dwarf \o/ I hope it's funny
[08:48] <foobarry> when?
[08:49] <CRogers> Just got another user reporting conflict with the wm alt-drag convention in gnome
[08:50] <CRogers> Recommend switching the defailt wm-action button to Super instead of Alt to prevent application clashes.
[08:50] <CRogers> *default
[08:52] <CRogers> In unity at least.
[08:53] <foobarry> shift J must be my favourite vim shortcut \o/
[08:55] <davmor2> CRogers: well done that's 2
[08:55] <CRogers> Two since I logged on a week ago.
[08:56] <davmor2> CRogers: feel free to write a bug report rather than complain about it here :) something might actually be done about it then
[08:56] <CRogers> It's also enough to warrant this page on Inkscape's main site: https://inkscape.org/en/learn/faq/#alt-key-doesn-t-work-on-linux
[08:56] <CRogers> davmor2 plenty of bug reports about it.
[08:56] <CRogers> Problem is most don't consider it a "bug"
[08:57] <davmor2> CRogers: indeed because it only affects a small subset of users
[08:58] <CRogers> davmor2 No, because it's not a bug, it's just a bad convention.
[08:58] <CRogers> So the behavior is intended.
[08:59] <davmor2> Indee
[08:59] <davmor2> +d
[08:59] <CRogers> You have no statistics to indicate that "it only affects a small subset of users" other than if people confront the dev community with it.
[09:00] <CRogers> And also, users would have to know what the problem is.
[09:00] <CRogers> The user that just asked us on #inkscape didn't.
[09:01] <CRogers> Which is the reason I'm making it more visible to you/everyone.
[09:03] <CRogers> The fact that the gnome and ubuntu tweak tools include the option to change it would indicate it affects a larger number of users than you are assuming.
[09:05] <CRogers> And it affects major software projects, who have to choose whether to dance around it when the alt-key is a standard modifier key used in all applications.
[09:06] <BigRedS> I don't think that does; exposing the ability to change something is as likely to be just because it was easy to implement and might be useful as because of demand
[09:06] <BigRedS> especially in free software
[09:07] <popey> Bear in mind ALT+Click pre-dates Inkscape (and Unity)
[09:07] <CRogers> I disagree with that. Esp in the tweak tools, which are notably sparing with options.
[09:07] <popey> it's been a staple keypress combo for years
[09:08] <CRogers> popey, yes, I'm aware of that. It was never a great idea to use Alt. It's too essential of a modifier for applications.
[09:08] <CRogers> It's the duty of the wm to serve up applications, not to override essential function keys.
[09:09] <popey> As davmor2 suggests, a bug would be useful.
[09:09] <popey> we can work around some of these issues
[09:09] <popey> and have done in the past
[09:09] <CRogers> At this point all that is necessary is to make the default Super.
[09:10] <CRogers> And have it changeable to alt in the tweak tool instead.
[09:10] <CRogers> But sure. I'll make a new bug report.
[09:10] <CRogers> And start filing complaints there too.
[09:14] <CRogers> I guess it would also be useful to post a list of affected programs.
[09:15] <CRogers> I know Blender, Inkscape and GIMP all have issues with that alt-key clash. I'm sure there are many more.
[09:16] <CRogers> Then the issue becomes: do we mandate that all the applications switch those hotkeys, or is it better to finalise the convention of using the Super key as the default modifier for wm actions.
[09:30] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Red Dwarf starts Spet 22nd I think
[09:44] <foobarry> its gonna be bad
[10:00] <knightwise> Parked outside in the sunshine today with the Dell Xps13
[10:01] <knightwise> Man I love going for the non glossy screen :)
[10:01] <foobarry> except...
[10:01] <foobarry> keyboard imprints on the matt screen
[10:01] <foobarry> glass tends to protect that a bit better.
[10:02] <zmoylan-pi> whoever thought screens should be glossy need to be taken out and rubbed down with sandpaper
[10:02] <foobarry> my dell e7440 has such low clearance you can't even carry the laptop folded without damaging the screen with key/nipple marks
[10:03] <zmoylan-pi> i don't think i have ever chosen an electronic device on how thin it is
[10:03] <foobarry> its not thin
[10:03] <foobarry> but just doesn't have little rubber pads to avoid screen/keyboard touching
[10:03] <zmoylan-pi> then a few more mm to provide clearance for keyboard and screen should have been included
[10:03] <foobarry> yes
[10:03] <foobarry> because of screen flex
[10:19] <knightwise> I'm not getting any key imprints on the screen
[10:20] <popey> I don't understand whether matte or shiny makes a difference in that regard
[10:20] <popey> that's a function of the design of the lid not the screen
[10:21] <foobarry> isn't shiny screen = glass?
[10:21] <popey> not on my laptop
[10:21] <popey> bohemian rhapsody is very different with only one headphone in
[10:22] <foobarry> half as many galileo's
[10:23] <BigRedS> haha
[11:18] <foobarry> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/528n4p/freetype_27_has_been_released_it_adds_a_new/
[11:19] <foobarry> i don't use windows fonts much so not such a deal
[11:22] <zmoylan-pi> how do you use comic sans to drive people nuts then?? :-P
[12:09] <Gargoyle> When I click on a notification in Gnome, instead of jumping to the corresponding app, I get another notification which says "[app] is ready!" which I then have to click to jump to the app. Is there a way to stop that and just go directly to the app in the first place?
[12:48] <TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: Comic sans has it's uses, e.g. scientific papers as 1,I and l are all distinct.
[12:48] <TwistedLucidity> In many font they are hard to tell apart, and that can be confusing
[12:49] <popey> Gargoyle: i just tried, and it switches for me
[12:49] <popey> e.g. I just got a spotify notification and it switched to it when I clicked
[12:49] <popey> the app was already open though.. dunno of that's a difference
[12:50] <zmoylan-pi> true, but if you are presenting information you should choose a medium were there isn't even the chance of confusion... /disclaimer, i used a zx spectrum in which the n and m were one fuzzy pixel in difference :-)
[13:21] <diddledan> *groan* http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/09/ubuntu-torrent-removed-google-infringing-transformers-movie
[13:23] <Seeker`> I bet that torrent isn't what it says it is
[13:24] <zmoylan-pi> someone uploaded the my little pony horror fest movie?! :-P
[13:24] <popey> I would take a look but my ISP blocks that site
[13:31] <foobarry> omg?
[13:32] <foobarry> or the torrent site
[13:32] <foobarry> maybe someone on reddit checked already
[13:33] <popey> wakka wakka
[13:33] <popey> it's actually an ubuntu iso?
[13:35] <diddledan> it is
[13:35] <diddledan> http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/announce is the tracker it's using
[13:38] <popey> heh
[13:47] <foobarry> EOL now though
[13:55] <ali1234> yeah the tracker wont allow it so you cant download it anyway
[14:07] <popey> the magnet link works
[14:14] <Gargoyle> popey, can you mention me again?
[14:14] <diddledan> snapcraft - does it use any containery things for blowing away changes when you're finished building (and not messing-up your installed system)
[14:16] <popey> diddledan: yes, "snapcraft cleanbuild" will build  in lxc
[14:16] <popey> Gargoyle: hm?
[14:17] <davmor2> diddledan: what popey said and I was typing :)
[14:17] <diddledan> :-) ta
[14:17] <diddledan> lol @ Creating snapcraft-rarely-upward-roughy
[14:18] <diddledan> hmm, cleanbuild just told me (with a load of python traceback) http.client.RemoteDisconnected: Remote end closed connection without response
[14:19] <popey> get thee to #snappy
[14:23] <Gargoyle> popey, Thanks... Seems hexchat doesn't event want to notify me (trying to figure out if its all apps or just slack)
[14:24] <ali1234> i never managed to get cleanbuild to work
[14:25] <diddledan> I'm wondering if there's a network issue with having docker installed
[14:26] <ali1234> that ubuntu torrent is a legit iso btw. sha1sum matches anyway.
[14:27] <popey> i use cleanbuild all the time here, but I had to faff a bit to get lxd working
[14:27] <ali1234> i don't have docker installed afaik
[14:27] <diddledan> I've not done anything to set-up lxd
[14:27] <popey> i much prefer it over polluting my laptop with tons of stuff
[14:27] <foobarry> i've been testing something called singularity
[14:28] <foobarry> because docker has scary security in multi-user environment
[14:28] <ali1234> i've pretty much given up trying to use snappy at this point. nothing i tried to package can work because of missing interfaces
[14:28] <ali1234> and there's still no release for raspberry pi
[14:28] <popey> i have it on my pi here
[14:28] <popey> (pi 2)
[14:28] <ali1234> me too
[14:29] <ali1234> it doesn't work properly. and then it tried to auto update and completely died
[14:29] <popey> how do you mean there is no release?
[14:29] <popey> oh, I am on the very latest image and updates work okay here
[14:29] <ali1234> i mean ogra told me there is no release
[14:29] <popey> wat
[14:29] <popey> the release was only last week :)
[14:29] <popey> well, beta
[14:29] <ali1234> i didn't know that. this was about two weeks ago
[14:29] <popey> ah okay.
[14:29] <ali1234> still, beta isn't a release :)
[14:29] <popey> there was an announce mvo made somewhere
[14:30] <popey> well, true :)
[14:30] <popey> close than "no release" tho ㋛
[14:30] <popey> https://technomancy.itch.io/bussard looks fun
[14:36] <popey> Creating snapcraft-hugely-robust-lamb
[14:36] <popey> never get tired of the generated lxd names
[14:46] <foobarry> mmm lamb
[14:51] <diddledan> ok, I've got cleanbuild working now - had to remove the downloaded images and pre-configure lxd using `sudo lxd init`
[14:51] <popey> groovy
[14:52] <diddledan> now to get corebird building :-)
[17:15] <knightwise> Yeeha :)
[17:15] <knightwise> Meesa running Loki
[17:16] <knightwise> Soooo Prettyyy
[17:55] <brobostigon> hey hey knightwise
[18:02] <knightwise> hey brobostigon
[18:07] <brobostigon> :)
[18:13] <davmor2> knightwise: why run from Loki he's a great guy just misunderstood ;)
[18:21] <knightwise> :) I think he is too horny for my taste
[18:21] <knightwise> hmm. I still get the "flickering" when I run chrome or firefox fullscreen
[19:17] <Gargoyle> I've changed my screen resolution using the nvidia tool, and it looks ok. However, the actual desktop size is still the same size, so everytime I hit the right edge or bottom of the screen, is scrolls over revealing "random rubbish"
[19:17] <Gargoyle> Is there some other setting I'm missing?
[19:40] <SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
[19:43] <SebthreeBQM10HD> popey ping
[19:49] <popey> SebthreeBQM10HD: pong
[19:49] <SebthreeBQM10HD> popey my nexdock came today but..
[19:50] <popey> oh!
[19:50] <popey> neat
[19:51] <SebthreeBQM10HD> popey yeah you would think so but it dorsnt just work with anything but windows so far, but maybd i nerd a hdmi adaltr of some sort as well usb type c
[19:51] <popey> :(
[19:51] <popey> not even android?
[19:52] <SebthreeBQM10HD> they sent a hdmi cablr but mostly not much good since thd nrxdock serms yo be micro hdmi as well as the drvices i want to connrct
[19:53] <popey> seeing people saying it works with the raspberry pi
[19:54] <SebthreeBQM10HD> popey they sent a hdmi cabld with it that serms to be normal on one end and micro hdmi on the. othdr that does work for connecting the remix mibi but that apparently dodsnt supoit
[19:54] <SebthreeBQM10HD> thrir display tesoluuon thrvone you hate
[19:54] <SebthreeBQM10HD> aand so a black screen for that
[19:54] <popey> bummer
[19:55] <SebthreeBQM10HD> it shohld sork with androd and linux to i just may be missing something hdni hardware wise i guesd
[19:57] <SebthreeBQM10HD> popey how do i conect when both the nexdock Nd devices i want to use Re micro hdmi
[19:57] <SebthreeBQM10HD> are mivro hdmi
[19:58] <SebthreeBQM10HD> the amount of mistakes is since usibg the touch scren keyboard on table
[19:58] <SebthreeBQM10HD> t
[19:59] <SebthreeBQM10HD> popry is thdteike a micro hdmi to mivro hdmi csblr or something i brrn liokinh
[19:59] <SebthreeBQM10HD> bern lookinh
[20:00] <SebthreeBQM10HD> popey
[20:03] <popey> i have no idea what you're asking
[20:04] <SebthreeBQM10HD> popey they sent a hdmi cable wigh it that sems to be normal hdmi on onr end and micfo hdni on the other
[20:05] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but both the nexdock and devices that eant to connect are micro hdmi so cant usr that
[20:05] <popey> :(
[20:06] <SebthreeBQM10HD> popey but they mention sometingbabout a usb c go hdmi adaptdr on their sebsite so posdibly i am mrsnt go havd one of those?
[20:07] <SebthreeBQM10HD> usb c to hdmi adPter
[20:14] <popey> how is the build quality?
[20:23] <SebthreeBQM10HD> popey if you mean hos ig loks and sucg well like a nice whitd lap top
[21:03] <ali1234> ubuntu phones have no autocorrect then
[21:03] <ali1234> ?
[21:05] <popey> heh
[21:06] <diddledan> I don't get how typing on a table is any different to holding it in your hand
[21:08] <zmoylan-pi> no autocorrect? sold! hate the flippin thing... :-)
[21:09] <diddledan> zmoylan-pi: it's not a nokia
[21:10] <zmoylan-pi> i liked t9 on my first nokia... till i realised i'd have to teach all t9 phones all the irish place names and words that didn't fit its dictionary
[21:10] <zmoylan-pi> PLUS alternate spellings
[21:11] <zmoylan-pi> WITH fádas and without
[21:11] <ali1234> okay why is apache holding log file fds open? the log rotator rotated the logs but apache is still writing to the deleted files so they just grow forever (and aren't visible in the FS)
[23:05] <SebthreeBQM10HD> diddledan they do have autocorrect but does not always work properly so disabled