[00:35] <RLShiftyDoggit> is there anyone on in this channel?
[01:34] <RLShiftyDoggit> anyone here?
[01:34] <RLShiftyDoggit> or is it still just me
[07:09] <charlee_> i have a question
[07:11] <charlee_> OTA 13 today?
[07:11] <sil2100> charlee_: hey! This week for sure, but I would realistically expect it tomorrow/Wednesday
[07:11] <sil2100> popey: hello, do you know why I'm unable to change the topic?
[07:12] <sil2100> I seemed to be able in the past
[07:12] <charlee_> sil2100, thanks. i can wait until tomorrow
[07:14] <duflu> sil2100: Topic has been locked down on the other server too. I think topic got abused by too many people too many times(?)
[07:15] <duflu> charlee_: Yes it must be close:   "Expected: 7 hours ago" ;)
[07:15] <duflu> https://launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+milestone/13
[07:15] <popey> sil2100: it was locked because people abused it
[07:15] <popey> sil2100: op yourself and you will be able to I believe
[07:15] <duflu> And this is why we can't have nice things
[07:15] <sil2100> popey: oh, thanks ;)
[07:16] <popey> np
[07:16]  * duflu high fives the collective channel
[10:58] <Saviq> mardy, hey, about bug #1625128 - what's your image#? we fixed this for OTA13 bug #1595569
[10:58] <ubot5`> bug 1625128 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "indicator menu should be dismissed when power button is pressed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1625128
[10:58] <ubot5`> bug 1595569 in Canonical System Image "Indicators panel doesn't close when turning screen off" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1595569
[10:58] <Saviq> I just tried here and indeed when I pull an indicator down over the greeter and turn screen off and on, I can see the greeter
[11:00] <Saviq> marking as dupe for now
[11:17] <mardy> Saviq: yup, I'm on OTA-12
[11:17] <mardy> Saviq: that's good news, thanks :-)
[11:25] <vitimiti> Can somebody help me with the verification of a click package? I am getting this "TypeError: object of type 'NoneType' has no len()" error https://paste.ubuntu.com/23201071/ https://gitlab.com/vitimiti/System76-Unofficial/tree/stable
[11:42] <Saviq> vitimiti, you're missing an "app" entry in the manifest, no?
[11:42]  * Saviq not sure about the manifest format, looks it up
[11:42] <vitimiti> Saviq, I honestly don't know, that's the default manifest
[11:44] <Saviq> hmm no, mine dumb one looks the same
[11:44] <vitimiti> The manifest says app isn't supported
[11:45] <vitimiti> It just says unknown error
[11:45] <vitimiti> Hm, maybe if I try uploading it I'll get some more information on the problem with my click package
[11:45] <Saviq> vitimiti, hmm it packaged and click-reviewed just fine
[11:45] <Saviq> vitimiti, btw, you want the -web framework for a web app
[11:46] <vitimiti> The Ubuntu store says "__all__: The name in the manifest must be the package fullname."?
[11:46] <vitimiti> Saviq, oh, I'll try that
[11:47] <Saviq> vitimiti, it'd be best if you'd use the Ubuntu SDK to edit the manifest
[11:47] <vitimiti> -web says it doesn't exist
[11:47] <vitimiti> Saviq, I'm doing so
[11:47] <Saviq> vitimiti, ok, the name needs to be "system76.vitimiti", if that's your namespace in the store
[11:47] <vitimiti> But the web app manifest is the raw file instead of a GUI
[11:47] <vitimiti> Alright, let me try that
[11:48] <Saviq> vitimiti, sorry, -html, not -web
[11:48] <vitimiti> "__all__: The uploaded package name (system76.vitimiti) does not use your namespace (vitimiti-package)" I'll try with vitimiti-system76 then
[11:49] <vitimiti> Back to the beginning, "__all__: The name in the manifest must be the package fullname." and still the unknown error when verifying it on the SDK
[11:49] <vitimiti> I can install it in my device, though and it works
[11:54] <vitimiti> If I try creating a new web app the SDK crashes completely... I feel like I shouldn't have used the SDK ppa
[11:56] <vitimiti> Getting the same error with a dummy web app, with the default files
[11:56] <vitimiti> I'll try undoing what the ppa has done, maybe that'll help me
[11:56] <Saviq> vitimiti, it looks like your namespace is "vitimiti-package"
[11:56] <Saviq> you may want to change that in the store settings
[11:56] <Saviq> the package would need to be named "system76.vitimit-package"
[11:57] <Saviq> +i
[11:57] <vitimiti> I see
[11:59] <vitimiti> I'm going to get it downgraded anyway cause it crashes too much and then I'll try it again, thanks Saviq
[12:00] <Saviq> vitimiti, which PPA were you using, btw? it would be good to get crash reports
[12:00] <vitimiti> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/phone/platform/sdk/installing-the-sdk/ <- the one from there
[12:00] <vitimiti> ppa:ubuntu-sdk-team/ppa
[12:23] <vitimiti> Alright, and the downgraded version can't even open the options without crashing, that's nice
[12:23] <vitimiti> I don't know what's going on
[13:55] <robinhero> hey guys, are there any problems with the OTA-13 releasing process? Because there's still no commitlog and I don't see the images on the systemimage server too
[13:57] <davmor2> robinhero: it's not released yet
[13:58] <robinhero> davmor2, https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/09/19/over-the-air-13-has-landed/
[13:59] <davmor2> robinhero: released by accident
[14:00] <robinhero> ohh, okay
[14:00] <robinhero> so what's the correct release date? :)
[14:01] <davmor2> when sil2100 says so
[14:02] <robinhero> davmor2, but today? :)
[14:02] <davmor2> robinhero: probably not no, this week though hopefully
[14:03] <robinhero> okay, thanks
[14:04] <matv1> I like the idea of accidental releases. We should have more of them :)
[14:05] <matv1> in fact there should be a schedule for that
[14:06] <matv1> lets surprise everyone and release 19.04 tomorow :)
[14:07] <davmor2> matv1: that was yesterday did you miss the party?
[14:07] <matv1> ahh noo your kidding me?
[14:07] <matv1> what is it called? no that we ran out of animals
[14:07] <matv1> now*
[14:09] <matv1> I vote for developers: 19.04- Profesional Popey
[14:09] <popey> if only it were a vote
[14:09] <davmor2> matv1: Everybody_wants_to_rule_the_world_be_we_already_do-ubuntu-desktop-amd64.iso you should be able to find it no issues ;)
[14:11] <TheKit> is OTA 13 still vivid, not xenial?
[14:11] <matv1> davmor2 haha
[14:14] <mcphail> TheKit: vivid + special sauce
[14:14] <TheKit> is aarch64-support xenial only?
[14:14] <davmor2> TheKit: yes
[14:16] <mcphail> matv1: I'd hate to think what ogra_'s adjective would be for the 23.04 release
[14:17] <TheKit> then, is Ubuntu Touch on Xenial completely broken (unbootable) or just with bugs?
[14:18] <popey> AIUI it boots and has bugs
[14:18] <popey> *BONUS*
[14:19] <ogra_> mcphail, i wouldnt care about the naming scheme ... but i think we should re-work the versioning and measuer in davmors ... (obviously davmor1 abd davmor2 are already taken though ... we'd have to start counting at davmor3)
[14:21] <mcphail> ogra_: aren't davmors zero indexed?
[14:22] <ogra_> oh, that might be
[14:22] <TheKit> so xenial currently is devel-proposed channel only, right?
[14:22] <davmor2> TheKit: nope that is yakkety
[14:23] <TheKit> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/phone/devices/image-channels/ - the documentation here is a bit outdated then
[14:23] <TheKit> so xenial is rc-proposed?
[14:23] <davmor2> TheKit: probably
[14:24] <davmor2> TheKit: nope
[14:24] <davmor2> TheKit: there is only one image at the moment but it really isn't available for daily consumption
[14:25] <TheKit> hm, I see
[14:25] <TheKit> I wanted to port on MTK Helio X10 device, which has 32-bit hwcomposer library broken, so no way but aarch64
[14:26] <mhall119> pmcgowan: is OTA-13 out for mako?
[14:27] <mhall119> pmcgowan: also, would you like to be on the community team Q&A next week, Tuesday at 1500 UTC?
[14:27] <davmor2> ogra_: May I have your attention please? Will the real davmor2 please stand up, I repeat will the real davmor2 please stand up? We're going to have a problem here
[14:27] <pmcgowan> mhall119, I was just chcking on the release, I have not heard
[14:27] <ogra_> davmor2, you're so shady today !
[14:27] <ogra_> and slim !
[14:28] <pmcgowan> mhall119, whats the Q&A topic for next week?
[14:28] <davmor2> ogra_: it's just the filter on the webcam ;)
[14:28] <mhall119> there isn't one, but we've been getting questions about plans to move the phablet images to 16.04 and snappy bases
[14:28] <dobey> we certainly haven't run out of animals
[14:28] <pmcgowan> I see
[14:28] <ogra_> nana
[14:29] <ogra_> err
[14:29] <ogra_> haha
[14:29] <pmcgowan> mhall119, let me get back to you soonish
[14:29] <mhall119> ok
[14:29] <dobey> davmor2: no, devel-proposed is xenial. we don't build yakkety images afaik
[14:30] <davmor2> sil2100: ^
[14:30] <davmor2> sil2100: is rc-prop xenial or yakkety
[14:30] <davmor2> dev-prop even
[14:32] <vitimiti> Saviq, I managed to upload the System76 app to the store properly after downgrading the SDK and fixing some problems the package had with the options, thanks for your help
[14:33] <dobey> davmor2: either way, devel-proposed is sad and hasn't had new images since august afaict
[14:33] <sil2100> davmor2, dobey: devel-proposed is yakkety, we have a separate set of channels for xenial
[14:33] <dobey> eww, why do we have yakkety images at all
[14:33] <Saviq> vitimiti, glad
[14:33] <sil2100> Yeah, devel-proposed was busted since there were issues with click installation, was waiting for the new click with the fix to be released
[14:33] <sil2100> Well, requirement of the release team
[14:34] <sil2100> Since we're releasing yakkety packages for touch there need to be images where these packages are to be tested
[14:34] <sil2100> So devel always points to the latest series
[14:34] <dobey> but it's impossible to test there
[14:34] <davmor2> dobey: it's like I knew what I was talking about and everything ;)
[14:35] <dobey> so what channel is xenial then?
[14:35] <davmor2> dobey: trade secret
[15:05] <brunch875> I've read rumors about a fully converged BQ phone upcoming
[15:05] <brunch875> is this true, or are these outdated news for the M10 tablet?
[15:08] <popey> ooh, we love rumours, here
[15:48] <brunch875> I hope it's true, because even though my phone can survive for a while longer, the usb connector is dangling a bit menacingly
[15:51] <mcphail> brunch875: same here. Oh, and my screen is about to fall off.
[15:52] <mcphail> Amazing how many falls the bq can survive
[15:52] <brunch875> my screen still hasn't had a single scratch
[15:53] <brunch875> and I drop it like errrrryday
[15:54] <mcphail> My screen isn't cracked, but the holding bezel has seen better dyas
[15:55] <brunch875> is BQ the new nokia? :p
[16:03]  * popey cuddles his collection of bq e4.5's
[16:04] <brunch875> I knew popey was collecting utouches... but not a whole set of e4.5's :P
[16:04] <popey> the one I don't have is the e5
[16:04] <popey> I have 5 e4.5's though
[16:05] <popey> mostly donated
[16:05] <brunch875> hah
[16:07] <OerHeks> That would make an unique 2016 x-mas tree, popey
[16:14] <popey> hah
[16:35] <seb128> kenvandine, jgdx, is anyone working on making u-s-s not depends on biometryd?
[16:35] <seb128> willcooke, ^
[16:38] <willcooke> abeato, hey!  Thanks for the comments on the Trello board.  I'm not /too/ bothered about flight-mode showing up and doing nothing - I think we can live with that.  But i-n sounds like it needs some work - do you know who would normally work on that?
[16:39] <kenvandine> seb128, i haven't looked at it
[16:39] <kenvandine> jgdx, can you look into that?
[16:42] <seb128> kenvandine, jgdx, should be use the MIR bug for that?
[16:43] <kenvandine> seb128, that's fine with me
[16:47] <willcooke> renatu, what happens if syncevolution is missing?  Will things break?
[16:48] <renatu> willcooke, there is some packages that depend on that. We will need to remove all others packages
[16:48] <renatu> I never tested that
[16:49] <willcooke> seb128, ^
[16:49] <renatu> willcooke, there is a lot of people using syncevolution, it will make a lot of people sad
[16:49] <seb128> renatu, which ones? apt-cache rdepends says it's in the touch seed but nothing else depends on it
[16:49] <renatu> seb128, sync-monitor
[16:50] <seb128> renatu, we are not speaking about changing the phone, just about the desktop session
[16:50] <willcooke> and only 16.10
[16:50] <seb128> renatu, nothing is bringing in sync-monitor either
[16:51] <willcooke> we can add more for 17.04
[16:51] <seb128> no sync stack on desktop/16.10 imho
[16:51] <renatu> syn-monitor is used to sync calendar.
[16:52] <renatu> bfiller, ^^
[16:52] <davmor2> seb128, willcooke, renatu: what does calendar on unity7 use? If unity8 is in session on unity7 won't that pull in evolution sync?
[16:53] <renatu> davmor2, most of the desktop guys probably use evolution.
[16:53] <dobey> there are a lot of assumptions in things in the unity8 session which don't make sense on a PC
[16:53] <willcooke> e-d-s
[16:56] <willcooke> renatu, the idea is that if we can get away with not MIRing it for 16.10 - then that's preferred to save time.  We can improve in 17.04
[16:56] <willcooke> so if things don't explode in a ball of fiery death, I'd like to leave it out
[16:57] <renatu> willcooke, yes we can keep it out, and try. I think nothing will explode :D
[16:57] <mcphail> The ubuntu calendar doesn't "work" in Unity7 without evolution
[16:58] <renatu> mcphail, yes, but we are talking about sync-evolution
[16:58] <renatu> mcphail, we will still have EDS. right willcooke ?
[16:59] <willcooke> renatu, yeah, correct
[16:59] <mcphail> hokay. Sorry for interrupting! :)
[17:02] <willcooke> renatu, I will comment on the card and say it's not needed - would you be able to do a quick sanity check to make sure it's not going to break other things?
[17:03] <renatu> willcooke, any image/iso that I can use to test?
[17:03] <jgdx> kenvandine, ack!
[17:03] <renatu> or just remove it from the phone and test is enough?
[17:05] <willcooke> renatu, actually thinking about it some more - I think we're ok.  Because it's not being installed in the tests davmor2 and seb128 are doing - so I think we're ok
[17:05] <renatu> willcooke, ok nice
[17:05] <willcooke> there'll be missing functionality, but no fiery death
[17:06] <davmor2> willcooke: wow I'm doing tests........this isn't the calendar your looking for........wow tests okay
[17:26] <abeato> willcooke, Wellark these days I thinj
[17:26] <abeato> *think
[17:26] <willcooke> thanks abeato
[17:26] <willcooke> Wellark, will follow up by email
[17:26] <abeato> np
[17:32] <dobey> alecu, pete-woods: ^^ re: indicator-network on PCs
[17:38] <alecu> dobey: what exactly about that?
[17:53] <willcooke> alecu, just sent an email about it
[17:55] <alecu> thanks
[17:57] <alecu> willcooke: antti has been sick for the past couple of days. I'll try to find somebody to work on that if he's not around.
[17:57] <willcooke> alecu, thank you sir
[18:09] <dobey> alecu: sorry, missed that. mostly I think it's just that it doesn't really support any sort of wired connections at the moment. in my VM it shows the generic gear icon (because there's no wired icon), and only stuff in the menu is wifi bits, and my VM doesn't have wifi.
[18:09] <dobey> not sure what other issues might be there though
[18:10] <dobey> mterry: hey, does https://code.launchpad.net/~dobey/unity-scope-click/initdb-readme/+merge/306135 alleviate your concerns re: departments.db ?
[18:12] <davmor2> dobey, willcooke: indicator network is missing the ethernet functionality known issue I believe  The more annoying one is the battery indicator is missing a powered only settings and screen dim does zero
[18:13] <dobey> davmor2: for fun time, go to "About" in settings and try to enable developer mode :P
[18:13] <davmor2> dobey: known issue, you want fun try and change the brightness in system settings
[18:14] <davmor2> dobey: there is no brightnes/display menu at all
[18:15] <dobey> davmor2: or better, try to change your password
[18:16] <davmor2> dobey: there is a list a mile long trust me :)
[18:16] <dobey> i know
[18:17] <dobey> davmor2: anyway i was just pinging alecu and pete about that, as antti is out sick.
[18:18]  * davmor2 pokes oSoMoN on desktop browser still points to mobile sites there is a bug for that already right?
[18:22] <dobey> davmor2: what, you don't want to install the android app?! it's in the play store!
[18:23]  * davmor2 beats dobey with a lettuce leaf for suggesting I install an app fullstop :P
[18:24] <dobey> davmor2: not me. http://beta.speedtest.net :)
[18:25] <davmor2> dobey: go to speedof.me
[18:25] <dobey> no
[18:25] <dobey> it doesn't work
[18:25] <davmor2> dobey: yes it does it is just in mobile view
[18:27] <dobey> davmor2: no, it tests against a crappy server, and is just incredibly slow. my internet is too fast for speedof.me. also, it's really ugly and complains about ad blockers all over the place
[18:27] <dobey> ie, it doesn't work :)
[18:28] <davmor2> dobey: it's more the display I'm interested in :)
[18:28] <oSoMoN> davmor2, no specific bug, is it happening for all websites? or just some of them? if the latter, a list of domains affected would be useful. in any case, app logs please
[18:28] <dobey> davmor2: speedtest.net is also a lot prettier :)
[18:29] <davmor2> oSoMoN: yeah I'll see what I can pull. but it's looking like a lot of sites but some look similar in both mobile and desktop so it's hard to tell sometimes :)
[18:37] <oSoMoN> davmor2, do you have the app logs handy? do they claim that the mobile UA overrides were loaded, by any chance? that would indicate a global bug, not site-specific
[18:38] <davmor2> oSoMoN: just digging them out now and filing a bug give 10minutes
[18:38] <dobey> oSoMoN: at least with beta.speedtest.net it seems the problem is the "Android" in the UA
[18:39] <oSoMoN> dobey, on desktop there should not be an Android token in the UA, if there’s one it’s a bug, what does http://whatsmyua.com say?
[18:43] <dobey> oSoMoN: checking...
[18:44] <dobey> oSoMoN: "Ubuntu 16.04 like Android 4.4"
[18:44] <dobey> oSoMoN: it also says "Mobile" in the UA
[18:45] <oSoMoN> dobey, that’s clearly wrong then, that’s a bug, is that on plain desktop or a phone hooked up to an external monitor?
[18:46] <dobey> oSoMoN: xenial+overlay unity8-desktop-session-mir installed in a kvm instance
[18:48] <oSoMoN> mmm, that might be a bug in how the screen size is reported by qtubuntu maybe
[18:48] <oSoMoN> dobey, mind filing a bug report with full details?
[18:49] <dobey> oSoMoN: hmm, it's 1024x768 (and i've no way to change it for mir it seems)
[18:49] <davmor2> oSoMoN: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/webbrowser-app/+bug/1625314
[18:49] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1625314 in webbrowser-app (Ubuntu) "Ubuntu webbrowser app sometimes shows sites in mobileview" [Undecided,New]
[18:49] <dobey> but sure, i guess i can file a bug. would be a bit easier if i could figure out how to get cut/paste sharing between kvm and host
[18:50] <davmor2> oSoMoN: anything else you need?#
[19:02] <oSoMoN> dobey, in theory only the screen physical size matters, not the resolution
[19:03] <dobey> oSoMoN: well that doesn't make much sense either. i have laptops with smaller screens than lots of phones have
[19:04] <dobey> oSoMoN: but the session indicator shows "Desktop Mode" toggle and it's enabled, so i guess qtubuntu thinks the right thing (and man is that word annoying)
[19:04] <oSoMoN> dobey, really? that sounds wrong (the phones with screen larger than desktops)
[19:05] <oSoMoN> dobey, how big are your phones (and how small are your laptops)?
[19:05] <dobey> oSoMoN: i have one laptop that's a 5.6" screen
[19:05] <dobey> oSoMoN: another that's 10"
[19:06] <dobey> i mean, the M10 is a 10" screen too, and the Pro 5 is a 5.6" (or was it 6"?) screen
[19:07] <oSoMoN> (of course the screen physical size is just a heuristic, currently the threshold is set at 19cm IIRC, i.e. 7.48")
[19:07] <oSoMoN> so all your phones should get a mobile UA string, and the M10 a desktop one (intended)
[19:08] <oSoMoN> as for your 5.6" laptop, it’s pretty damn small, so it will get a mobile UA string, but that doesn’t sound like a bad thing
[19:08] <dobey> trust me, it is
[19:09] <oSoMoN> dobey, purely out of curiosity, what’s the make/model of that laptop?
[19:09] <dobey> oSoMoN: Fujitsu U820
[19:11] <oSoMoN> interesting
[19:12] <oSoMoN> we should probably tie the use of a mobile UA string to the presence of a touch screen
[19:12] <oSoMoN> (on top of the existing screen size heuristic)
[19:13] <dobey> oSoMoN: you should probably also follow the toggle setting
[19:13] <oSoMoN> dobey, yes
[19:16] <mterry> dobey: sorry just noticed your ping earlier
[19:18] <mterry> dobey: so that's helpful.  But it doesn't address my complaint of "which languages are in the default database and thus need to be specified" nor "what should my system be like before I run this command" -- i.e. what clicks should I make sure to install etc.  (also, why copy the database elsewhere first?  and should the "sqlite3 data/departments.db" example
[19:18] <mterry> command be "sqlite3 deparments.db-new" instead?)
[19:20] <pmcgowan_> oSoMoN, although not strictly a touch screen right? otherwise my laptop would get mobile :)
[19:20] <dobey> mterry: the example was a brainfart from copy+paste, yeah
[19:22] <dobey> mterry: copying the file is to work on a temporary copy, to avoid destroying existing data while updating with additional languages.
[19:22] <mterry> That's what bzr is for!  :)  But sure, ok
[19:23] <mterry> But anyway, that extra README is just more details about how you COULD run it.  I want to know how *you* ran it to originally make the file.
[19:23] <dobey> mterry: why is that important?
[19:24] <mterry> dobey: so that if you go on vacation, someone can update that file without calling your cell phone
[19:24] <mterry> And just on general priciple
[19:24] <dobey> mterry: i described exactly how to *update* the file
[19:24] <mterry> dobey: right... for a given language, and assuming the system the user is on is exactly the same as the one you ran it on originally?
[19:24] <dobey> mterry: so do we require documentation specifically detailing how artists draw artwork in PNG files, or textures for 3D games?
[19:25] <mterry> So what languages are shipped in that default database?
[19:25] <mterry> What system did you run it on originally?
[19:25] <dobey> i didn't run it originally
[19:25] <dobey> mterry: what i'm saying is, you're ascribing a certain level of importance to something, which is not that important
[19:25] <jgdx> mardy, hey, are you working on amending hard coded paths in online accounts?
[19:26] <mterry> dobey: so the file gets updated with whatever list of clicks you have installed when you run init-departments, right?
[19:26] <dobey> mterry: really, the only reason this would ever need to be updated within the source tree itself is if we ever ship a new phone in a new country
[19:27] <koza> rsalveti, hey gotta a moment to talk about PA?
[19:27] <mterry> dobey: and if I were to run init-departments on my laptop right now to update the file, and I didn't have all the same clicks installed as are in that database right now, would init-departments drop a line from the database?  Just fail to update that click's info?
[19:27] <mterry> dobey: or what if translations for a click get updated?
[19:28] <mterry> Oh you're saying this is only useful for first shipment
[19:28] <dobey> mterry: there are bugs already filed about removing the package:department mapping.
[19:28] <dobey> mterry: yes, it's only useful for first shipment. the database gets copied to user's home dir, and is updated when they change language and reboot
[19:29] <dobey> or if they install/remove packages
[19:29] <dobey> mterry: not having the click installed when you run the tool doesn't delete the entry
[19:30] <mterry> dobey: but doesn't update the entry either I assume?  (nor add it if you are adding a new language to the db)
[19:30] <mterry> So it is ideal to have all the clicks in the db installed when you run the tool
[19:30] <dobey> mterry: what i added to the README is basically exactly what I did when I updated the db to have the Chinese locales a few months ago, when we were preparing the turbo release
[19:30] <dobey> no
[19:30] <dobey> this database is not ideal
[19:31] <dobey> which is why the goal is to get rid of it
[19:31] <dobey> however, we do not have enough time to do that for yakkety
[19:32] <mterry> I know the db is not ideal, and that you want to replace it.  But I'm saying we are currently shipping files that only you know how to maintain.  And I don't know why you find that acceptable.  We don't need to replace the db by yakkety, but you certainly have enough time to write a simple README explaining how you made that file.
[19:33] <dobey> mterry: alternatively i could "fix" bug #1346957 and just remove the code from the tool (and scope) which deals with the package mapping. which then makes it only a database of translations
[19:33] <ubot5`> bug 1346957 in unity-scope-click (Ubuntu) "Remove entries for departments db" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1346957
[19:33] <dobey> mterry: how many core devs can recreate all of the PNGs or audio files we ship in a default install?
[19:34] <sem-geologist> hello, how to compile bqm10 kernel?
[19:34] <dobey> mterry: why don't we require DAW project files for sound themes to be in main?
[19:35] <mterry> Those are shipped in their "preferred form of modification".  If we had files that generated the PNG, we had better dang include that in the source we ship.  Else we aren't compatible with the DFSG
[19:35] <dobey> mterry: i don't see the point in writing a README to replicate something, which a) requires a specific phone to run the tool on to actually do b) is going to be deleted
[19:36] <sem-geologist> is the cit-aarch64-blahblah needed together with the source which is downloadable from launchpad? I couod not find the exact manual how to do it.
[19:37] <mterry> dobey: is it hard to write the README?  Or are you resisting on principle?
[19:37] <mterry> Seems like it would take 5 mins
[19:38] <dobey> mterry: from my POV it seems you are the one resisting on principle. I'm just trying to understand why this is necessary when we ship literally thousands of files for which this requirement is not met.
[19:38] <SebthreeBQM10HD> woo paste works in ota 13 I read on a bug reprt, and omgubuntu
[19:38] <SebthreeBQM10HD> now just need working clickable links in libertine as well!
[19:39]  * SebthreeBQM10HD waits for ota 13 to be on the updater, not yet for me
[19:39] <dobey> mterry: and yes, i do not want to invest more time in "improving" something which we intend to get rid of anyway
[19:40] <sem-geologist> !?!
[19:40] <dobey> !patience sem-geologist
[19:40] <ubot5`> dobey: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[19:41] <sem-geologist> no, I am just. astonished by this disscussion...
[19:41] <dobey> mterry: i'm not trying to be "difficult" or anything. but you seem to be assuming that i'm the one who originally created the database or wrote the tool (i am not) and that the contents of the database are somehow much more important than they actually are
[19:42] <mterry> dobey: sure my stance is mostly principle.  Part of a MIR is to make sure the package is well-maintained.  This is a red flag to me, and I'm so confused why you don't also see it as bad practice.  But it's also currently shipping the database.  You want to replace it before we next update it, granted.  But what if that doesn't happen.  What if we do want to
[19:42] <mterry> update it.  Not the likeliest scenario, but really. Just 5 mins, far less work than arguing about it with me
[19:42] <mterry> dobey: ah.  So you didn't make the db.  Are you saying that you don't know how to reproduce it?
[19:44] <dobey> mterry: no i'm saying it is unimportant. simply running the tool and getting an empty database is equally fine for the purposes of including it in an installation with unity8-desktop-session-mir. in fact on yakkety it's even superfluous, because we can't support installation of clicks on yakkety, and snaps do not have departments in the store as of yet.
[19:44] <dobey> mterry: if you want to update the database, the instructions are very clear and stated in the MP i just pointed you at
[19:45] <mterry> Sure, I don't think that MP makes it any better in ways I care about, but it seems like a more verbose README, which is good.
[19:45] <dobey> mterry: and no, IMO, having an sqlite database in the source tree is not necessarily a red flag. but perhaps i am being a bit more pragmatic than you are
[19:47] <mterry> dobey: I'll assign this MIR to another member of the team.  You seem unwilling to make the changes I request.  Maybe another reviewer will not care about those changes like I do.
[19:48] <dobey> mterry: i'm just trying to understand the problem :(
[19:49] <mterry> I feel like I've spelled it out several times.  We seem to be talking across each other.
[19:49] <dobey> well you told me i need to describe how to update the file, which is exactly what i did, and then you tell me it doesn't tell you how to update the file
[19:49] <dobey> so yeah
[19:51] <mterry> dobey: I understand how to run the command to update the file, yes.  The original README told me that.  But nothing in the source tells me how to reproduce the environment to run the command in, nor which languages to pass on the command line (which languages are in the current db).  I've spelled that distinction out several times.
[19:58] <sem-geologist> so what abou the kenel? I have xperience with complng/debugng conventional kernel and armhf(on allwiner devices) however this one is kind differen
[19:59] <sem-geologist> kernel* sorry, writing from m10, can see the whqt Iam writing, as it is behind osk
[20:08] <dobey> sem-geologist: do you have any experience building android images?
[20:08] <dobey> sem-geologist: really you don't just build the kernel itself, but the kernel is built as part of the image building process
[20:08] <sem-geologist> oh, that would explain a lot
[20:09] <sem-geologist> is this cit-aarch64 stuff needed from bq github to compile it?
[20:09] <dobey> i suppose you could possibly build the kernel on its own, but just getting a vmlinuz file isn't all that useful for these types of devices
[20:09] <vieflo07> Good Eve
[20:10] <dobey> i don't know anything about that bit. i've not built the m10 tree myself
[20:10] <vieflo07> first results from my experiment: http://forum.xda-developers.com/htc-one-x/help/ubuntu-touch-hox-experiment-device-t3457461
[20:11] <vieflo07> dobey, I got a splash screen already xD
[20:11] <vieflo07> Maybe someone want to look at this kmsg log, at the very end: http://pastebin.com/1PF178e9
[20:12] <vieflo07> I need some help with the unknown cgroup errors, and the other strange log lines
[20:14] <flohack> so now I got the right name xD
[20:15] <dobey> cool. unfortunately i can't help you. i know almost nothing about porting :)
[20:16] <flohack> Yeah... I have some nice guys on ubports, but I also try to reach out to the wider community here
[20:16] <flohack> but somehow this channel is never really busy xD
[20:17] <dobey> always busy, but i think maybe you just come on here when the people you probably need to talk to are already gone :)
[20:18] <sem-geologist> dobey,thanks for honest answer. I thin I will try to make some sens from nice manual and source available for bq E4.5, I tqhink I could trace back. how it is done. There are some readya scripts in m10 kernl foldrr, I just hoped somebody here would know how to use them exactly...
[20:19] <dobey> sem-geologist: why are you wanting to build your own kernel anyway?
[20:20] <flohack> hehe
[20:20] <flohack> what is the preferred UTC time then
[20:22] <dobey> flohack: EU/UK normal working hours are probably the best time to ask about porting in here
[20:22] <sem-geologist> lots of usb peripherals is not compiled, like i.e. serial/usb stufff
[20:22] <flohack> hmm mdobey at this time I work myself in office lol
[20:22] <flohack> but Ok will try
[20:23] <dobey> sem-geologist: yes, because the kernel has to be under a certain size, and doesn't have modules. not sure why, but this is just how kernels are built on android based devices
[20:23] <flohack> sem-geologist be aware of the kernel size,
[20:23] <flohack> ha wanted to say the same xD
[20:23] <flohack> On my port device I have only 8MB
[20:23] <flohack> Ad it needs to fit kernel and ramdisk
[20:24] <flohack> But I must say Ubuntu Ramdisk is 2x the sze of Cyanogen
[20:24] <dobey> sem-geologist: deviating much from the manufacturer's kernel config can make things really complex to maintain, so for the most part our kernel is the same as the android kernel on the android version of the devices
[20:24] <flohack> maybe it could be made smaller
[20:24] <sem-geologist> I would like to do a lot of cool. things, not only check my mail, or loo to calendar (I am scientist, There was alwais the void for linux machine, the portable one to gather and interpret the spatial data in place
[20:24] <flohack> I had already to cut into the CM kernel for my device and remove actually stuff... NTFS support, USB Net adapters, USB sound etc
[20:25] <flohack> well I dont want to disappoint to, but we are limited still to the android way. Ubuntu is more a "user task" running on top of android
[20:25] <dobey> sem-geologist: i'm not disagreeing with your desires. i'm simply explaining the situation :)
[20:25] <flohack> Plus all hardware drivers are closed source
[20:25] <sem-geologist> well I chcked, actually a lot of stuff (especially whch would be handy for such tinkerrers as me ) are disabled on UT kernel config
[20:26] <flohack> you need to use lots of vendor stuff
[20:26] <dobey> sem-geologist: they are disabled in android too
[20:26] <flohack> yes you will enable it and then try to flash it, and it will be too big ;)
[20:26] <sem-geologist> no, I just checked, and they Re not
[20:26] <sem-geologist> All the usb serial stuff is enabled on android, also bluetooth serial
[20:27] <dobey> bluetooth serial works fine in ubuntu
[20:27] <dobey> and afaik, there is no kernel driver for doing serial over bluetooth
[20:28] <dobey> sem-geologist: are you comparing actual android, for this specific device, or cyanogen, or some other android kernel?
[20:29] <sem-geologist> the bq one for android
[20:29] <marxjohnson> App development question.  I want to build an app for pass (http://passwordstore.org), which is a shell script that calls git and gpg. I've found out how to use C++ to call a shell command. Is it possible to include the script, git and gpg with an app and just stick GUI on top, or would I need to re-implement the functionality in C++ using the relevant libraries?
[20:29] <Knightmare> Is OTA-13 out today?
[20:30] <dobey> marxjohnson: generally you'd be better off writing a complete app using relevant libraries, but you should be able to include git/gnupg and exec them from your app's code
[20:31] <dobey> marxjohnson: the trick though for running external comands is knowing the path. QProcess is the API you'd use from a C++ Qt app
[20:32] <marxjohnson> dobey: that's what I was wondering, if it would be possible to have the git and gpg binaries packaged with the app, such that I'd know where to call them
[20:34] <sem-geologist> thank you, dobey, I am going to try the stuff out...
[20:34] <Danielthebague> Any news when ota-13 is due for release ?
[20:34] <Danielthebague> e4.5 here
[20:34] <mardy> jgdx: hi! I had a look, but the only hardcoded path I found was the icon path in the .settings file
[20:34] <Danielthebague> launchpad said it was release 20 hours ago
[20:38] <dobey> Danielyou: it is phased release, so the update will eventually appear for your device. just be patient. if you have notifications enabled and are logged in to ubuntu one on your device, it will probably download automatically and you'll get an update when it's done
[20:40] <Danielyou> Thanks I'll try and be more patient.
[20:40] <Danielyou> I always look forward to a new release
[20:40] <pmcgowan_> Danielyou, it hasnt been published yet, per lukasz mail tomorrow or wed is expected
[20:42] <Danielyou> Another question will libertine or desktop apps work on the e4.5
[20:45] <dobey> technically, test, but realistically no. the e4.5 doesn't have enough RAM for it to be useful or responsive
[20:47] <SebthreeBQM10HD> dobey the lucas email?
[20:47] <SebthreeBQM10HD> dobey,  so is ota 13 actually waiting to go to devices now or not?
[20:48]  * SebthreeBQM10HD thinks being able to copy and paste between libertine and natie will be useful at times
[20:49] <dobey> SebthreeBQM10HD: lukasz, but i didn't say that.
[20:49] <dobey> SebthreeBQM10HD: i guess it's waiting to be released tomorrow.
[20:49] <pmcgowan_> Danielyou, also you dont have any external display connection on e4.5
[20:50] <pmcgowan_> and the aethercast is not enabled there
[20:50] <SebthreeBQM10HD> dobey, ok
[20:50] <SebthreeBQM10HD> pmcgowan_,  he just left
[20:50] <pmcgowan_> indeed
[20:50] <SebthreeBQM10HD> as for the 4.5 uhmm
[20:50] <dobey> pmcgowan_: but you don't need external display to be able to use libertine
[20:50] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I intentionally kepe mine on a 4.10 vesion for now ;d
[20:50] <dobey> you do, however, need RAM
[20:50] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but don't really use that phone anymore properly so
[20:51] <SebthreeBQM10HD> thought I had lost it last year, turned up in Jan
[20:51] <SebthreeBQM10HD> hence why it stayed on a old version from the summer to
[20:51] <SebthreeBQM10HD> pmcgowan_, he's back
[20:51] <pmcgowan_> Danielyou, also you dont have any external display connection on e4.5
[20:51] <pmcgowan_> and the aethercast is not enabled there
[20:52] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, yeah 4.5 and mx 4 's can't really do proper full convergence it seems
[20:52] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, however maybe some of the libertine stuff will work there, firefox for example
[20:53] <Danielyou> Maybe investing in an m10 soon, would love another bq with better specs if there is one
[20:53] <dobey> external display doesn't inhibit running of apps; just that some may be of limited use without a larger dislpay
[20:53] <dobey> display
[20:53] <pmcgowan_> well for my eyesight it does :)
[20:53] <flohack> so now it gets crowded a bit here ,)
[20:53] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou,  I acaully have the 4.5, the mx4, and the cheper of the two m10's
[20:53] <flohack> maybe I can re-raise my questions from before?
[20:54] <iAmVille> someday not soon i'll finally see armv8 support in libhybris and then it'll get crowded crowded
[20:54] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, so the HD not the full hd, the white hd  not the black FHD,  and even the cheaper of the two devices is rather nice :),  I intend to buy the Full HD as well, but don't quite have the spare cash for that right now so
[20:54] <pmcgowan_> maybe no porting gurus though
[20:54] <dobey> Danielyou: the Pro 5 is the best supported phone device to use libertine on at the moment, as it has most CPU/RAM i think
[20:54] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, yes both versions of the tablet,  why? why?  since it's nice :) etc
[20:54] <flohack> Hmm just need an initrd guru xD
[20:54] <flohack> or upstart guru doesnt matter
[20:54]  * SebthreeBQM10HD  uses the tablet mostly now instead of a computer, rarly using a computer
[20:55] <SebthreeBQM10HD> dobey, Danielyou the pro 5 might be the best supported libertine device, but that's sold out
[20:56] <dobey> SebthreeBQM10HD: you can buy an international android version and flash it; instructions have been published
[20:56] <SebthreeBQM10HD> dobey, I been thinking of doing that for the BQ E5 HD Maybe
[20:57] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou,  we lost you again, but I said to you and dobey that the pro 5 might be the best supported device to use libertine on at the moment, but that it's sold out
[20:58] <SebthreeBQM10HD> dobey, apparnatly with the BQ EFHD  Android, if putting Ubuntu on it, that got to use developer mode, which mostly is ok, but then the gps won't work or whatever it was nokia maps or something
[20:58] <Danielyou> A dumb question maybe, keyboards have a back space for deletion why do they not have a delete from the right button
[20:58] <SebthreeBQM10HD> dobey, how is the pro 5 the best supported libertine device, according to you?
[20:59] <dobey> SebthreeBQM10HD: it is the best device for running libertine on, which is an officially supported device, because it has most cpu/ram
[20:59] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou,  some keyboard seem to have a del bottom on the bototm right some where
[20:59] <SebthreeBQM10HD> dobey, ah right yeah I forgot there actsaully, and indeed to what you just put, it's a Meizu so
[21:00] <Danielyou> I will check out the pro 5
[21:00] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, BQ tend to sell for cheaper, devices with less ram etc
[21:00] <SebthreeBQM10HD> mid range or kind of
[21:00] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, Meizu is more mid range to high end
[21:01] <SebthreeBQM10HD> dobey, a pro 5 woudn't be much good for me right now anyway for liberitne, unless I was going to acstsually set up my own container
[21:01] <SebthreeBQM10HD> when it's easy to just have a load of apps without neding to use commands to set up a container and commands form a pc
[21:01] <SebthreeBQM10HD> that will be something
[21:02] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, your geting disconnected I put basically: BQ is more lower end cheaper devices, Meizu is more mid range to sort of high end
[21:02] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but all devices are officaly sold out excpet for the tablet from bq I belive
[21:02] <Danielyou> Might have to be the m10 for my birthday seems all the othet devices are sold out
[21:03] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, indeed exactly, but with some can buy the Android version, and then put Ubuntu on one self
[21:03] <Danielyou> yeah I did notice
[21:04] <dobey> SebthreeBQM10HD: i thought there was a gui tool for managing containers
[21:04] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, a Meizu MX 6 came out with Android like two months or so ago, apparnatly that will come out with Ubuntu eventaully
[21:04] <SebthreeBQM10HD> maybe towards the end of the year hmm
[21:04] <SebthreeBQM10HD> dobey, not a proper one, or so I thought ?
[21:04] <dobey> if the Pro 5 was about 2 inches smaller, i might be interested in one, but as it is, meh
[21:05] <dobey> SebthreeBQM10HD: i don't know what you mean by "proper" but it would just do the same thing as when you run the CLI tool, i would expect
[21:05] <SebthreeBQM10HD> dobey, the MX 4 was aprnatly all big etc, but that's a nice size, aparnatly the pro 5 only a bit bigger
[21:05] <dobey> the mx 4 is too big
[21:06] <SebthreeBQM10HD> dobey, I mean something where it's all graphical, and no need to use a pc even
[21:06] <dobey> heck, the nexus 4 is too big
[21:06] <SebthreeBQM10HD> that's a normal phone sien ow I Think the mx 4
[21:06] <jgdx> mardy, okay, thanks!
[21:06] <dobey> SebthreeBQM10HD: i don't understand. that's what the gui tool is supposed to be for, afaik
[21:06] <dobey> yes, normal phone sizes are too big
[21:08] <Danielyou> any chance bq will have a new phone i future with better specs
[21:08] <dobey> no idea. i'm sure they will continue making phones though, and they will likely have improved specs from current phones. whether they will have ubuntu or not, i have no idea. :)
[21:09] <dobey> their business is building phones/tablets/things after all
[21:09] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I bought a cheap Android phone the other week and even that one was MX 4 kind of size
[21:10] <dobey> yes
[21:10] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, BQ don't seem that interested for now,  ther ewas a omgubuntu link about bq
[21:11] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, BQ don't eem that interested for now, ther was a omgubuntu link about bq i think
[21:11] <SebthreeBQM10HD> zte don't want an ubuntu phone for now as well
[21:11] <SebthreeBQM10HD> another aritcle they had etc
[21:12] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I love the OS,  etc, but certain things need to be done really, before more manufactures will be like, right ubuntu phone let's try have one or a tablet
[21:12] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, maybe once libertine works better by default,  that can even help things out there
[21:12] <Danielyou> Will keep my fingers crossed that bq and canonicial may bring out a new another device
[21:13] <SebthreeBQM10HD> can easily run lots of standard Linux programs that have been ported to arm, uhmm thousands of good quality softwares
[21:13] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, the debate for ubuntu to possibly support android apps, may become less relevent if that hten
[21:14] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ideally need more good quality native apps to, and that aren't just web apps, but that doens't just happen as well.  as an OS it's great, what apps etc it should and shoudn't support is another debate
[21:15] <dobey> there isn't a debate about android aps on ubuntu
[21:15] <SebthreeBQM10HD> dobey, well there is by people who think it should support them, and those who don't. I don't think there needs to be support for Android apps
[21:15] <dobey> there are people who think certain android apps are vital, and then complain to us because their favorite apps haven't been ported
[21:15] <SebthreeBQM10HD> improve libertine and the OS, that should then also attract more native app developers as well then
[21:15] <SebthreeBQM10HD> who needs android apps then seriously ?
[21:15] <dobey> ubuntu cannot support them
[21:16] <dobey> libertine doesn't enable apps which don't exist. so the same problem still exists
[21:16] <SebthreeBQM10HD> dobey, well I guess it can via some kind of compatabilty thing like what Jolla and Tizen  have for example
[21:16] <dobey> also, any app you're going to run in libertine is almost certainly not suitable for use without an external keyboard/mouse, and a display if on a phone
[21:17] <dobey> SebthreeBQM10HD: no, it cannot. the security model is totally incompatible
[21:17] <SebthreeBQM10HD> how is the security model totaly incompatible ?
[21:17] <dobey> SebthreeBQM10HD: many android apps have background services that must be running for the apps to be useful
[21:18] <SebthreeBQM10HD> dobey, I thought it was mostly, since generally Ubuntu devs don't want to support Android apps like that, as a way to hopefully get people to make native apps,  but ok I guess there are some technical reasons as well then
[21:19] <SebthreeBQM10HD> dobey, well it may get htousands of users in the future.  I mean look at desktop Ubuntu over the years since 2004,  for what I mean
[21:19] <SebthreeBQM10HD> no it's not main streame
[21:19] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but yes it has thousands of users, debatably a million or two actsaully
[21:20] <SebthreeBQM10HD> certain apps would only come if enough market share as well, simple as that
[21:21] <SebthreeBQM10HD> dobey, as for needing a keyboard or mouse, yes most liberitne stuff is deisnged for that
[21:21] <dobey> SebthreeBQM10HD: most companies that are only willing to port their app based on market share, are doing it because they require that many users to meet expected revenue
[21:21] <SebthreeBQM10HD> and some programs won't work so well on a smaller s  reen etc yep
[21:21] <dobey> ie, Snapchat needs X users to make Y dollars from in-app purchases
[21:22] <SebthreeBQM10HD> dobey, indeed lots of stuff wont' just get ported to another OS, at a big loss in general
[21:22] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but they main strema don't care, they just want pokemon go etc etc
[21:22] <dobey> really, there are still a lot of missing features that prevent people from even writing alternatives
[21:22] <SebthreeBQM10HD> such as?
[21:23] <SebthreeBQM10HD> and yes I know Android and Ios or way more feature complete in general
[21:23] <SebthreeBQM10HD> even Windows phone, but they all been around longer so
[21:23] <SebthreeBQM10HD> much longer
[21:23] <SebthreeBQM10HD> with more devs as well
[21:23] <dobey> SebthreeBQM10HD: NFC, various bluetooth features, SMS integration, background processing support
[21:23] <dobey> lots of things like these
[21:24] <SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah and clickable links in libertine :d well thats a Ubuntu thing, but well  yes copy and paste  for example, something you would think is a basic in most oses, is now coming inthat update :).  that's an example of what I MEAN
[21:24] <SebthreeBQM10HD> basics that are or were lacking
[21:25] <dobey> copy and paste already existed
[21:25] <dobey> it just didn't exist between host and guest
[21:25] <SebthreeBQM10HD> oh
[21:25] <SebthreeBQM10HD> guest being libertine I guess
[21:26] <dobey> yes. just like i can't copy and paste between my kvm and host machine
[21:26] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but now can with that update so :)
[21:26] <dobey> but for native phone apps built with the SDK, copy and paste was working pretty much fine already
[21:26] <dobey> well, no, i still can't with kvm
[21:26] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ota 13
[21:26] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I mean
[21:26] <dobey> but yes, with libertine it works to copy and paste between mir and x apps
[21:27] <SebthreeBQM10HD> copy and pate betwee natie and libertine
[21:27] <SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah I CAN se use for that at imes
[21:27] <SebthreeBQM10HD> looking forward to update soon :)
[21:27] <Danielyou> Streaming media like rt news or BBC news would be massive plus to me , not seen an app or scope in the softwarestore to do this
[21:27] <dobey> my point is that it was not a missing feature which prevents people from writing alternative apps on ubuntu, to existing android apps
[21:27] <dobey> Danielyou: youtube works fine
[21:28] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, maybe an actusally working ebay UK serach to would be a plus in the native browser,  works in FIrefox in libertine.  ebaby done something that has broken the native browser
[21:28] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ebay uk is still mostly un usable in the natieve browser
[21:28] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, that broke like two or there weeks ago or something
[21:29] <Danielyou> yes but had problems with you tube scope
[21:29] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, Ubuntu has the same issue as Windows phone when it comes to apps,  not that many developrs making apps curretnly and then good ones as well
[21:30] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, Windows phone lacks market share that's why they have that issue,  same for the old blackbery 10 phones
[21:30] <SebthreeBQM10HD> genearlly app developers don't make for other oses that aren't android or ios
[21:30] <SebthreeBQM10HD> unless in their inteest, money, good perosonal reasons, etc
[21:30] <Danielyou> the rt page to wawatch live streams it comes up with no supported app
[21:31] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, link ?
[21:31] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, there aren't going to be many offically supported apps for Websites yet for Ubuntu touch
[21:31] <SebthreeBQM10HD> since the  lack of general market share
[21:31] <SebthreeBQM10HD> there are certian unoffial apps though, for facebook and what not
[21:31] <SebthreeBQM10HD> mostly just web apps, but still
[21:33] <Danielyou> https://www.rt.com/on-air/
[21:33] <dobey> gotta go. later all
[21:33] <Danielyou> Bye dobey
[21:34] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, not sure if you got my messages, but  basically there aren't going to be many apps for websites for Ubuntu touch,  offial ones
[21:34] <SebthreeBQM10HD> since lack of market share
[21:34] <SebthreeBQM10HD> lack of a user base of Ubuntu touch
[21:34] <SebthreeBQM10HD> except for devs and enuthusiasts currently
[21:35] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, however here are unoffical apps for Facebook and such for certian sites,  but mostly just web apps
[21:35] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, WIndows and the old b lackberry 10 os has the asame problems
[21:35] <Danielyou> wish I had the knowledge to write one still learning qml and html5 hete aswell as java
[21:36] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, indeed,  if I was more into that kind of thing, I would try and make one or more myself even
[21:36] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but that's not the case so
[21:37] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, when did you start using ubuntu or any other linux disro ?
[21:37] <Danielyou> shame vlc haven't made a oss version for the touch
[21:37] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, indeed, but if you do your own libertine container, that's something that as far as I know, should work quite well in there
[21:37] <SebthreeBQM10HD> plus ubuntu touch has some kind of multimeida playing app built in it seems
[21:38] <Danielyou> mandrake 10.1 community in the days when you had to configure dial up
[21:38] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, oh right nice, so what year?
[21:38] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but yes this is a bit like living early deskto linux agian
[21:38] <SebthreeBQM10HD> will it ever take off
[21:38] <SebthreeBQM10HD> go more main streame
[21:38] <SebthreeBQM10HD> it's good enough isn't it?
[21:38] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I remember 2005 :d
[21:39] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but wel here we are and years later, well no it has not gone main stremae
[21:39] <Danielyou> 2000 and something I think
[21:39] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but thouands or millions of people globally use it
[21:39] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, I see Ubuntu touch as having lots of potential at becoming something great
[21:39] <SebthreeBQM10HD> and it already is
[21:40] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but more great as time goes on, for those of use who use it, and know about it,  it may never go main streame ora nywhere that close,  but it's the best hope at the moment really it seems
[21:40] <SebthreeBQM10HD> at a more desktop linux like mobile os at doing that, eventaully, or something similar
[21:40] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, if we should care or not, that's antoher debate, about that kind of thing, but even thogh linux dominates in the android market,
[21:40] <Danielyou> Yeap OSS is the way to go for me hence investing in the e4.5
[21:40] <SebthreeBQM10HD> that annoys me when I go away some whhere so it was SWeen in teh summer that's just been again
[21:41] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I landed back in the UK
[21:41] <SebthreeBQM10HD> England
[21:41] <SebthreeBQM10HD> and well
[21:41] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I heard lots of andorid phones go on basically uh!
[21:41] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, I like choice :)
[21:41] <SebthreeBQM10HD> I like playing with osees to.  hence why I got a Firefox and Jolla phone as well
[21:42] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, oh and why I just bought a Tizen phone on FRiday as well
[21:42] <SebthreeBQM10HD> from India on Ebay, so I am a bit hmm to that, but hey that's the way to get one right now so
[21:43] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, I thought it would be special to have the first two commericaly available UBuntu phones, hence having both the 4.5 and mx 4.  and I don't hae a neus 4 so that was my first time with ubuntu touch the 4.5
[21:44] <Danielyou> the way Linux has evolved is amazing been hookedsince buying a magazine then reading teach yourself li uxin 24hrs which i borrewed fromthe library, have been inrrigued evet since
[21:44] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, indeed but most people have no idea from the genreal public, but I intend to try and change that a bit next month
[21:44] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, I am ogansing a  small public event so
[21:44] <SebthreeBQM10HD> if it gets enough people or not though, that's a bit hmm
[21:46] <SebthreeBQM10HD>  Danielyoui it is quite amazing
[21:47] <Danielyou> i'm introducing to my local community and we have a small user base in my village here in the uk. will beteaching people how to uSE Ubuntu at voluntary worksoon and running an it meet up with rpi's androbots
[21:47] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, if someone said to you in say 2005 that in 2015 you would have an UBuntu phone, would you belive them ?
[21:47] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, yes it seems your from the UK
[21:47] <SebthreeBQM10HD> like me
[21:47] <SebthreeBQM10HD> where abouts ?
[21:47] <Danielyou> Yes too true
[21:48] <Danielyou> the southwest
[21:48] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, oh the south est
[21:48] <SebthreeBQM10HD> west
[21:48] <SebthreeBQM10HD> thats iike me
[21:48] <Danielyou> cornwall
[21:48] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou,  if your up for a trip to Bristol in October
[21:48] <SebthreeBQM10HD> well you could acstuay help me with an event :)
[21:49] <Danielyou> I tend not to travel far.
[21:49] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, indeed it's a dab far from cornwall really
[21:49] <SebthreeBQM10HD> but not to far I guess
[21:50] <Danielyou> But have a mate thats also a keen Linux fan he may like to join me on a trip
[21:50] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, well I esriosuly need mroe helpers for this event
[21:50] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, espeially since the lug around here isn't that great
[21:50] <SebthreeBQM10HD> to informal really
[21:50] <SebthreeBQM10HD> it's diffficult to get people to actsually help with events and such
[21:50] <SebthreeBQM10HD> from it
[21:51] <Danielyou> Are you on your LUG mailing list
[21:51] <SebthreeBQM10HD> Danielyou, got two or so already, but could do with more really at least  three or so ideally
[21:52] <SebthreeBQM10HD> grr net split
[21:58] <SebthreeBQM10HD> ah net split
[21:58] <SebthreeBQM10HD> yay thanks net split, ruined the chat I was having it seems
[23:17] <kass__> Hi
[23:20] <kass__> I have a aquaris bq e 4.5 , I  pressed Format all + Download in the flash tool , Now I have Invalid IMEI , How can I repair it . Thank you :)
[23:32] <Mister_Q> you cant. you have to send it to bq for an imei repair
[23:32] <kass__> Thank you
[23:34] <Mister_Q> format all does literally that. even for the partitions you cant backup/restore sorry :/