[09:47] <bluesabre> morning all
[09:48] <flocculant> hey bluesabre :)
[09:48] <Unit193> Esh, on a weekend?
[09:50] <bluesabre> :D
[09:50] <bluesabre> flocculant, so, dead at greeter or after greeter?
[09:50] <flocculant> umm
[09:51] <flocculant> after logout from guest 
[09:51] <flocculant> also the pulseaudio crash is odd
[09:52] <bluesabre> Unit193, that greeter bug is somewhat amusing... you're probably doing it wrong if your computer lab has multiple sessions :\
[09:52] <flocculant> only g-s crashes pa though
[09:53] <bluesabre> so logout from guest would be the greeter
[09:54] <flocculant> bluesabre: obviously if you want a specific u-bug package I'll do that
[09:54] <flocculant> I just didn't want us to end up with a bunch of bugs all for similar things from people
[09:55] <flocculant> with little time it'd take longer to sort those out than anything else :p
[09:58] <bluesabre> looks like there might be a rare greeter bug with it just going black http://osdir.com/ml/general/2016-09/msg22771.html
[10:00] <bluesabre> all of this really might stem from some ugly bug in lightdm or X.org
[10:01] <flocculant> mmm
[10:02] <flocculant> personally I've not a clue what we should do :p
[10:05] <bluesabre> yeah
[10:06] <bluesabre> flocculant, logout from guest is bad in either, and pa is just gnome-screensaver?
[10:06] <flocculant> this business they've got with kernels and beta isn't making it very easy to find time to talk to people 
[10:06] <flocculant> bluesabre: ack
[10:08] <bluesabre> so definitely some issue exists in lightdm-gtk-greeter, lightdm, and/or xorg
[10:08] <flocculant> then I ended up with xfce rather than xubntu - but I think that was me not checking the session type
[10:08] <flocculant> bluesabre: yea I'd say so
[10:08] <flocculant> but only us - no-one else (including studio) is affected
[10:08] <bluesabre> flocculant, so we can swap out the greeter to something else to narrow that down
[10:09] <flocculant> ok
[10:09] <flocculant> bluesabre: have you seen this issue when switching user(s)?
[10:10] <flocculant> oh btw - I did add a new admin user and try there - just in case it was some *thing* with guest user - no change
[10:10] <flocculant> and I couldn't get back to the original locked session anywhere with anything
[10:11] <flocculant> but I assume that's because greeter
[10:13] <flocculant> bluesabre: perhaps try with the ubuntu greeter
[10:14] <flocculant> mostly cos I'll hate you if you say lets try kde-greeter :p
[10:16] <bluesabre> :D
[10:17] <bluesabre> flocculant, I hadn't seen the issue before, tried just now with a bogged down computer, entered guest session, tried to log out, computer froze, restarted
[10:17] <flocculant> ok cool - sort of
[10:17] <flocculant> at least that means it's not just me being an idjit :)
[10:19] <flocculant> I can do some testing later with other greeters easily enough if that helps
[10:19] <bluesabre> yeah, that should help
[10:19] <flocculant> I think the busiest thing I'm up to this weekend is eating :p
[10:19] <bluesabre> we can also throw lightdm out by testing with gdm
[10:20] <bluesabre> sounds like its going to be a long weekend :\
[10:20] <flocculant> ok - can you write on http://pad.ubuntu.com/lock-change exactly what you want from me
[10:21] <flocculant> I can test with new-greeter, then change to gdm and old-greeter then new one - whatever gets us the best set of data 
[10:21]  * flocculant hopes that there is surely some combination that works 
[10:22] <flocculant> we don't necessarily need to change - might be we find where the issue lies for someone *canonicalish* to be able to help 
[10:22] <bluesabre> yeah
[10:22] <bluesabre> looks like I can not log out of the guest session
[10:22] <flocculant> k
[10:22] <bluesabre> everything closes and I am left with the dev wallpaper
[10:22] <flocculant> yup
[10:23] <flocculant> exactly the same here
[10:23] <bluesabre> screen doesn't flash black, so I don't think its even getting back to the greeter
[10:23] <flocculant> and not only on the vanilla install but here too - and I ended up http://i.imgur.com/t69s536.png
[10:23] <flocculant> which was nice ...
[10:24] <bluesabre> :(
[10:25] <bluesabre> flocculant, do you know if this is reproducible in a vm?
[10:26] <flocculant> bluesabre: hard to tell - can't get one back from suspend 
[10:27] <bluesabre> should be able to test with just locking
[10:27] <flocculant> 2 seconds then
[10:28] <bluesabre> there's basically a few things I want to test here... it might be a bug with the greeter, so we can try guest session in ubuntu-mate... it might be a bug in xfce4-session, though I think we're alone there
[10:29] <bluesabre> if we can reproduce outside of xubuntu, it will get way easier to get help :)
[10:29] <flocculant> vm crashes coming back from guest user
[10:29] <flocculant> and yea I know - hence me always trying these things elsewhere
[10:30] <flocculant> I haven't actually tested other flavours coming back from guest
[10:30] <bluesabre> I'm going to be testing these things as well
[10:30] <flocculant> I'll test Ubuntu ... 
[10:31] <flocculant> that's the best place for us to find reproducibility :p
[10:33] <flocculant> bluesabre: I'll zsync ubuntu right now - install vm - check guest, be ~15 minutes to a result
[10:33] <flocculant> in the meantime perhaps you could write some on the pad - so we both test exactly the same things
[10:36] <bluesabre> alrighty
[10:37] <flocculant> ubuntu has yak on slideshow :p
[10:40] <bluesabre> flocculant, what happens when you lock your screen, click switch users, and then just log back in as yourself?
[10:41] <flocculant> not tried
[10:41] <flocculant> I'll try in the vm
[10:41] <bluesabre> k
[10:41] <flocculant> grabbing mate iso too
[10:42] <bluesabre> lappy updated, rebooting, bbiab
[10:44] <flocculant> bluesabre: if I lock, switch user, login as me, password, unlock screen, password - back where I started properly
[10:45] <flocculant> ubuntu takes longer to install ... 
[10:46] <bluesabre> flocculant, that's good at least
[10:46] <flocculant> yep
[10:46] <flocculant> booting ubuntu now - fingers crossed in some bizarrely unfair fashion :p
[10:48] <flocculant> starting mate install 
[10:50] <flocculant> bluesabre: booted ubuntu, can switch users while at normal user desktop - get the Data in guest session warning - then blank screen
[10:52] <bluesabre> so guest session does not fully load for u?
[10:52] <flocculant> not appearing so - redoing now
[10:53] <bluesabre> oh boy
[10:53] <flocculant> switching to guest from lock screen
[10:53] <bluesabre> further into the rabbit hole...
[10:53] <flocculant> yea - but it's not going to be quite so lonely down there now hopefully
[10:54] <flocculant> leaving vm for a bit - just in case it's I've got too many running :p
[10:54] <bluesabre> :)
[10:54] <bluesabre> I've got 3 isos racing each other as they download
[10:54]  * flocculant wanders to kitchen to make tea - that should be enough time 
[10:54] <flocculant> ha ha 
[10:57] <flocculant> bluesabre: ok - that ubuntu vm is stuck trying to start guest session
[10:58] <flocculant> and mate is almost installed
[10:59] <flocculant> bluesabre: ok - so ubuntu was hung at guest, ctrl+alt+f7 got me back to lock screen, password and back to where I was
[11:02] <bluesabre> so that's no good
[11:02] <bluesabre> :D
[11:02] <flocculant> mate just works
[11:02] <flocculant> so there are issues with ubuntu at least 
[11:04] <bluesabre> and locking/switching everything seem fine with mate?
[11:04] <flocculant> bluesabre: ok - so Xubuntu - login user, lock, login guest, logout, crashes, ctrl+alt+f7, login user, unlock user - back where I started
[11:05] <bluesabre> alrighty
[11:05] <flocculant> bluesabre: and ack for mate working fine
[11:06] <bluesabre> welllllllllll
[11:06] <bluesabre> dang
[11:06] <flocculant> so - we have the same problem seemingly as ubuntu - which I further assume (or hope) to mean we'll get us fixed without having to change locker
[11:06] <flocculant> bluesabre: you were expecting mate to fail and ubuntu to work weren't you :)
[11:07] <bluesabre> flocculant, I was at least expecting mate to fail
[11:07] <flocculant> thought so from reading the pad
[11:07] <flocculant> bluesabre: how about I install ubuntu to hardware - then ubuntu-bug from there, dupe our one to it - then go from there?
[11:08] <flocculant> or do you still want to be ready for us to move locker if needed? 
[11:08] <bluesabre> flocculant, somewhat different though, right? our guest session loads but won't exit, their guest session won't load
[11:08] <flocculant> oh hang on
[11:09] <flocculant> regardless of the guest issue - we've got other problems iirc
[11:09] <flocculant> our bug is unlock from a normal user fails
[11:10] <flocculant> I think I will still run through the stuff on pad for us - we'll have that data then regardless of what happens when we tell -release
[11:11] <bluesabre> ok
[11:11] <flocculant> I'll work through all that this afternoon - add notes to the pad we're using
[11:12] <bluesabre> I'm getting xubuntu installed in a vm while the others download
[11:12] <flocculant> okey doke
[11:12] <bluesabre> I'll see if I can find anything additional
[11:13] <flocculant> yup
[11:16] <flocculant> omg :|
[11:17] <flocculant> now I found some thunar thing ... unless it's what I couldn't reproduce of Unit193's ... 
[11:17] <Unit193> flocculant: Got xfce4-gtk3 exo?
[11:17] <flocculant> yes - Unit193 I can now reproduce change view to detailed view 
[11:17] <flocculant> oh yes - got the gtk3 ppa's
[11:17] <Unit193> bluesabre's fault. :P
[11:18] <flocculant> :)
[11:18] <bluesabre> exo broken in the ppa?
[11:18] <flocculant> bluesabre: got to fly for a bit now - will crack on later with this lock stuff - will get notes there for you to see when you're about
[11:19] <bluesabre> flocculant, alrighty, hf
[11:19] <flocculant> will be about on and off all day, so if you think of anything either ping me or write it on the pad 
[11:21] <bluesabre> will do
[11:21] <Unit193> bluesabre: Yeah, poked you about that.
[11:22] <bluesabre> aha
[11:22] <bluesabre> can you repoke?
[11:22] <bluesabre> I miss things :(
[11:38] <flocculant> bluesabre: just quickly - vm, remove lightdm, add gdm and a million other things - can't switch user :p
[11:38] <bluesabre> :D
[11:38] <flocculant> so we should do that - then no problem if we go to g-s or xs as there's no way to get to another user :D
[11:40] <bluesabre> :)
[11:40] <bluesabre> brilliant!
[11:49] <flocculant> bluesabre: what would you say was best thing to bug report against for the ubuntu version?
[11:51] <bluesabre> flocculant, hard to say... ubuntu-session maybe? the lock screen in ubuntu is part of unity, but the bug is with the session loader
[11:58] <flocculant> bluesabre: I've got some success going on here
[11:58] <flocculant> added a new user - normal account
[11:59] <flocculant> can lock first user - switch to new one - lock that - switch back and forth between them both
[11:59] <flocculant> seems to be the guest user causing problems 
[11:59] <bluesabre> cool
[12:00] <bluesabre> Unit193, any idea what the guest user might be related to?
[12:05] <flocculant> bluesabre: and finally - if you logout of a user - seems to lose any chance of getting back to a locked session
[12:06]  * bluesabre really wants to blame lightdm
[12:07] <flocculant> perhaps I should report against that then
[12:08] <flocculant> I can (Iassume) reproduce all this in Ubuntu, then we can dupe our bug against it - and hand that new one over 
[12:09] <flocculant> jeez this is a real pita ...
[12:10] <bluesabre> very
[12:18] <flocculant> bluesabre: ok - can reproduce ^^ in Ubuntu 
[12:18] <flocculant> and guest kills it
[12:18] <bluesabre> oh goodie
[12:18] <bluesabre> that should simplify things :D
[12:19] <flocculant> oh wait - just see what happens if I log out of one
[12:20] <flocculant> almost
[12:20] <flocculant> so if I logout of session in Ubuntu, can resume other locked session
[12:20] <flocculant> in Xubuntu appears to logout all sessions
[12:21] <flocculant> but surely if I report in Ubuntu - can just comment for Xubuntu the difference
[12:22] <flocculant> bluesabre: you sure ubuntu-session? 
[12:22] <bluesabre> flocculant, not sure of anything
[12:22] <flocculant> ha ha ha 
[12:23] <flocculant> ok - well I think I'll report it against kernel - they appear to be worried about that :D
[12:25] <flocculant> bluesabre: lightdm because you blame it? 
[12:28] <bluesabre> flocculant, maybe just spam the "also affects"
[12:29] <flocculant> ok - with ubuntu-session, xubuntu-session, greeter?
[12:35] <bluesabre> yeah, seems like a good start
[12:37] <flocculant> so both our greeter and the unity one :p
[12:38] <flocculant> bluesabre: thanks - I think we've done enough for the moment - at least until *they* can facepalm
[12:39] <bluesabre> flocculant, thanks a bunch... let me know when we have a bug and I'll see if I can critical it or something
[12:39] <flocculant> likely we'll be in a position to not change locker do you think? 
[12:41] <flocculant> worth waiting till we hear from them I guess
[12:45] <bluesabre> alrighty
[12:45] <jjfrv8> flocculant, do you still want us to run the testcases as published? Or are there changes coming from your investigation today?
[12:49] <flocculant> jjfrv8: I'd guess not just now
[12:50] <flocculant> bluesabre: bug 1627304
[12:50] <flocculant> don't ask why  it decide to call it unity-greeter - also can't find -sessions to affect
[12:53] <bluesabre> flocculant, ok, not sure why the -sessions don't show
[12:54] <flocculant> no idea - much to much like Lp fu there :)
[12:54] <bluesabre> looks like ubuntu-session is gnome-session
[12:54] <bluesabre> apt-get source ubuntu-session
[12:54] <bluesabre> Reading package lists... Done
[12:54] <bluesabre> Picking 'gnome-session' as source package instead of 'ubuntu-session'
[12:55] <bluesabre> xubuntu is probably xubuntu-default-settings more than anything
[12:57] <flocculant> ok - done that then
[12:58] <flocculant> I've added a comment from our perspective - with our bug, but haven't duped it atm
[12:58] <flocculant> jjfrv8: thanks for reminding me - I've sent a mail to the list now :)
[12:58] <bluesabre> thanks flocculant 
[12:59] <flocculant> bluesabre: not much more I can do now afaik
[12:59] <bluesabre> yeah, I think we're basically waiting for ubuntu proper to take a look now
[12:59] <flocculant> k - we can move on to the weekend now then \o/
[12:59] <jjfrv8> flocculant, just saw it, thanks. wfm :)  Good work!
[13:00] <flocculant> thanks for your help bluesabre :)
[13:00] <flocculant> I was getting a bit snowed under with all the permutations :p
[13:00] <bluesabre> flocculant, seems like you did most of the hard work, I only suggested things that might be related
[13:00] <flocculant> which helped enormously :)
[13:00] <bluesabre> :)
[13:00] <flocculant> not even had music on ... 
[13:00] <flocculant> so it must have been bad 
[13:01] <bluesabre> lol
[13:02] <flocculant> bluesabre: actually I wonder if a mail to the release list would be a better method to start the ball rolling?
[13:02] <flocculant> if so it might be better coming from you - if they ask tech questions ... 
[13:02] <flocculant> because currently - this is a blocker for us 
[13:03] <bluesabre> yes
[13:03] <flocculant> sometimes it's a bit 'sigh flocculant found another bug for us :(' 
[13:04] <bluesabre> :)
[13:07] <flocculant> I'll just wait now to see the mail
[13:08] <flocculant> if I've not seen one by Monday I'll get all huffy :D
[13:09] <bluesabre> :)
[13:09] <bluesabre> drafting it up on that pad
[13:10] <flocculant> been useful that pad :p
[13:11] <bluesabre> indeed
[13:12] <bluesabre> I suppose I should also report guest session dying on logout in xubuntu
[13:12] <flocculant> yea
[13:13] <flocculant> I'd mention that switching between normal users who are locked would be useful
[13:13] <flocculant> we both see that, it's only us who have the initial complete fail on lock with light-locker
[13:20] <bluesabre> flocculant, specifically, xubuntu works when not using light-locker in this scenario, right?
[13:22] <flocculant> when not using l-l  we have issues with guest, but vt7 brings lock dialogue back as it does with ubuntu
[13:23] <flocculant> not usin gl-l means we can lock for normal users and switch between
[13:27] <flocculant> bluesabre: hadn't had time to check all this with xscreensaver
[13:29] <bluesabre> flocculant, created bug 1627310
[13:30] <flocculant> should these be added to b/p? 
[13:30] <flocculant> the original one is atm 
[13:30] <flocculant> not that we're likely to forget them :D
[13:30] <flocculant> confirmed that bug
[13:34] <flocculant> bluesabre: I assume I am right in thinking that now we've found ^^ we have a bit more time available (not much) as they'll be wanting us to wait on results ? Though obviously we'll still need time to change locker if necessary and test
[13:35] <bluesabre> yeah, we probably shouldn't further bombard them with extra stuff unless we know exactly where to look
[13:35] <bluesabre> how's the draft look to you?
[13:36] <flocculant> maybe add that Mate isn't affected - might help narrow down where to look?
[13:36] <flocculant> doesn't appear to be affected
[13:37] <bluesabre> k
[13:37] <flocculant> bluesabre: yep - that looks fine to me - doom laden enough without sounding like I wrote it :)
[13:38] <bluesabre> :D
[13:38] <bluesabre> alrighty then, I'll send this one out
[13:38] <flocculant> infinity will at least be expecting some of that 
[13:38] <flocculant> cheers :)
[13:40] <flocculant> I bet akxwi-dave is pleased this happened this cycle :p
[13:40] <flocculant> I can't wait for us to fiddle with file-managers next cycle, I can just watch \o/
[13:44] <bluesabre> :D
[13:44] <bluesabre> flocculant, mail sent
[13:45] <bluesabre> oh
[13:45] <bluesabre> Post by non-member to a members-only list
[13:45] <bluesabre> thought I was in there...
[13:46] <flocculant> ha ha ha 
[13:48] <flocculant> bluesabre: best subscribe to it then :D
[13:48] <bluesabre> just did
[13:48] <flocculant> :p
[13:49] <bluesabre> and now I'll cancel and send it again :D
[13:49] <flocculant> :p
[13:50] <bluesabre> there we go
[13:50] <bluesabre> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2016-September/003908.html
[13:50] <flocculant> \o/
[13:51] <flocculant> yea - that's what I mean Council AND Tech :p
[13:51] <bluesabre> :D
[13:51] <flocculant> bluesabre: have a good rest of day and Sunday :)
[13:51] <bluesabre> and now, time to continue with the day
[13:51] <bluesabre> seeya flocculant, bbl
[13:51] <flocculant> I'll be about off and on if you need anything
[13:52] <bluesabre> great, thanks
[13:57] <krytarik> flocculant, bluesabre: If there is indeed a difference in behavior between Xubuntu and Studio there, then that'd be the result of the former having been switched to using the systemd user session already.
[14:02] <flocculant> krytarik: I knew we'd be able to blame systemd :p
[14:07] <flocculant> I do like "may negatively impact the other flavors in unique and related circumstances" 
[14:08] <flocculant> so they'd best have a proper look too :p
[14:08] <flocculant> ok - I'm away with the fairies now for a while
[15:25] <Unit193> bluesabre: I've not exactly been following entirely.
[15:28] <flocculant> Unit193: simply put - there appears to only be an issue when guest logs out - ordinary users can logout and allow locked users to log back in
[15:42] <Unit193> Okay...
[15:43] <flocculant> not sure that helps you mich lol