/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/09/26/#ubuntu-desktop.txt

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willcookemorning all07:55
flexiondotorgMorning08:00
Laneyhi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!08:01
willcookemorning flexiondotorg Laney08:01
willcookeWelcome flexiondotorg!08:01
flexiondotorgLaney, o/08:01
flexiondotorgwillcooke, Thanks :-)08:01
willcookeflexiondotorg, poke me once you have access to the inner sanctum08:02
flexiondotorgOK08:02
Laneyhey flexiondotorg08:02
Laneywelcome!08:02
pittihey Laney, hey willcooke08:02
flexiondotorgThanks Laney08:02
pittihello flexiondotorg, welcome to the desktop team08:02
willcookemorning pitti08:02
flexiondotorgpitti, Thanks08:02
flexiondotorgAnd morning08:02
Laneyyou will have your mandatory reeducation shortly08:02
Laneyhi pitti08:03
Laneyhow's berlin?08:03
flexiondotorgI have purged childhood memories in readyness08:03
pittiflexiondotorg: la plus important chose : on parle français ici ☺08:03
flexiondotorgNon08:03
LaneyI saw the weekend kernel fun :/08:03
pittiLaney: kernel> ugh, yes08:03
* willcooke prepares the poetry appreciation chairs 08:03
pittiLaney: awesome! we went to the Tempelhof airfield yesterday, and walked around a lot08:04
flexiondotorghablo un poco de español08:04
Laneypitti: ah nice, we went there too08:05
larsume too!08:05
Laneyah larsu08:05
Laney08:05
larsuhey Laney ♥08:05
didrockshey willcooke, flexiondotorg, larsu, larsu!08:05
Laneywhen's the conference?08:05
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flexiondotorgMorning didrocks larsu08:06
larsumorning didrocks, didrocks!08:06
* Laney pouts at didrocks didrocks 08:06
didrockswelcome flexiondotorg :)08:06
flexiondotorgThanks didrocks :-)08:07
didrocksflexiondotorg: so, you now have to learn French08:07
larsuhi flexiondotorg! I guess I can't say welcome anymore... but you know ;)08:07
larsuflexiondotorg: whatever you do, do. not. learn. french.08:07
Laneyyou are wearing larsu's shoes08:07
Laneynow about that geonames project...08:07
* larsu will not give up the nick08:07
Laneythe previous maintainer was a JERK!08:07
larsuactually, I might. The 'u' is starting to bother me08:08
* flexiondotorg looks around. Can't see his GCSE French books08:08
Laneymake it mean something else08:08
didrocksI think you can expense some online lessons08:08
larsuLaney: I heard he's quite nice actually08:08
Laneyüber alles08:08
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pittiflexiondotorg: yes, Canonical pays the full price of the French duolingo course :)08:45
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pittihappyaro1: what's the status of bug 1575614? It currently marks the 1.2.2 SRU as failed, and blocks further SRUs of NM (I need to work on one)09:01
ubot5bug 1575614 in network-manager (Ubuntu Xenial) "[SRU]Can't select secret key for TLS auth for 802.1X authentication" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157561409:01
Trevinhohei flexiondotorg, welcome!! :-)09:04
flexiondotorgTrevinho, o/09:04
flexiondotorgThanks :-)09:04
ogra_huh ?09:05
ogra_flexiondotorg, duuude !09:05
willcookepitti, happyaro1 is in SFO this week, so expect a bit of a delay. Maybe drop him an email09:05
pittiwillcooke: ah, thanks09:05
* flexiondotorg hugs ogra_ 09:05
* ogra_ hugs flexiondotorg and dances09:05
willcookeLaney, would you be able to take a look at this when you get a mo:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/162719009:11
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1627190 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu) "livecd-rootfs: .pyc files stripped from desktop ISO livefs, makes python startup slower" [Undecided,New]09:11
willcookeI think for "desktop" it doesn't really matter.  We have all the horsepowers.  Maybe flexiondotorg has an opinion here too, wrt RasPi etc. ^09:11
flexiondotorgShipping .pyc will improve start up time.09:13
flexiondotorgThat said, I've had mixed feedback from guys in Debian about shipping .pyc in packages.09:13
flexiondotorgSome reviewers have suggested removing other prefer to keep them.09:14
ogra_willcooke, well, effectively it only matters on readonly media ... and only for the first start of apps ... on rw media the files are created on the fly at the first app start09:14
flexiondotorgopenSUSE do pre-compile all python and ship .pyc.09:14
ogra_i think we do so too09:14
LaneyIt's done at install-time09:14
ogra_by default09:14
LaneyI think09:14
Laneyis it?09:14
* Laney spins09:14
flexiondotorgIf it is a proper python module, and dh-python is used you'll get .pyc09:15
ogra_well, i definitely have the files after adding ubuntu-core to the exception in livecd-rootfs09:15
ogra_they must come from somewhere ... :) either a postinst snippet or build time09:15
willcookeIMO, it makes sense for desktop, server, cloud and core to all do the same thing.  So I'd be +1 for leaving them in on that basis alone09:17
LaneyAnyway.09:17
LaneyI would guess it was to save space09:17
willcookeit was09:18
ogra_it surely was09:18
LaneyYou would want data about how much space it saves09:18
ogra_well, do a build with ubuntu-desktop in the exception :)09:18
LaneyI can imagine how to arrange to get the data, but thanks :P09:19
jibelvigo, blank app scope on yakkety bug 162766809:43
ubot5bug 1627668 in unity-scope-click (Ubuntu) "/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/unity-scopes/scoperunner:11:QObject::disconnect:QObject::disconnect:QDBusConnectionPrivate::closeConnection:QDBusConnectionManager::run:QThreadPrivate::start" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/162766809:43
didrockswillcooke: flexiondotorg: ogra_: Laney: it's a dpkg trigger creating them at install time. We don't ship it as part of the package by default because we don't want to rebuild the world when a new python version (with a different path) is shipped. So, the pyc are only compiled for the python version the users has installed on his machine09:59
willcookedidrocks, ah, interesting.  Would you mind commenting on the bug?10:01
didrockswillcooke: will do it this afternoon (but that's the basic python mecanism)10:02
willcookethx didrocks10:02
didrocksubuntu core case is different (as we don't install packages, but ship an installed rootfs, with some filtering). But ogra now ships the .pyc due to the long Python Speed Discussion thread(Tm)10:03
LaneyYeah, that's how it works, thanks10:05
Laneydidrocks: Doesn't matter for that bug though10:05
LaneyIt would be the same whatever way they were shipped10:05
Laneyexcept that if it were in the binaries then the re-byte-compiling would need to be reproducible10:06
Laneynot sure if it is nor not10:06
Laneyor10:06
Laneyand doesn't matter, because it's not done that way :)10:06
ogra_does anyone know a way to run evolution without clutter (i.e. plain gtk3) without recompiling ?10:31
ogra_i'd love to use it under Mir but it errors out with a clutter error currently10:31
davmor2ogra_: just run it in libertine and be done ;)10:32
ogra_eeek, no... that even kills my XPS13 ... already tried ... i want to run the native deb on the actual host ...10:33
ogra_i dont like my cpu fans to spin all the time ... and my RAM is precious :)10:33
davmor2ogra_: then use claws :P10:34
ogra_:P10:34
Trevinhohey pitti10:34
ogra_i'll just wait for the mutt gtk3 port :P10:34
pittihey Trevinho10:34
Trevinhopitti: can you comment on https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/hud/systemd-for-session/+merge/300430?10:34
pittiTrevinho: just stepping out of the door, will look later10:34
Laneyogra_: doubt it, gtk-clutter uses a different gtk_init10:35
ogra_ah, sad10:35
Laneyclutter-gtk*10:35
ogra_i know it used to be possible to build it without clutter though ... perhaps that still works10:35
Laneyit is10:35
* ogra_ will have to check next weekend10:35
Laneyalso https://git.gnome.org/browse/clutter-gtk/log/?h=wip/mir dunno what that is10:36
Laney;-)10:36
Trevinhopitti: ok, no worries... there's no rush10:36
ogra_oh10:37
LaneyTrevinho: seb's away, so if you want that in it might be a good idea to fix it :)10:43
LaneyTrevinho: also, hi!10:43
Trevinhohey Laney10:44
Laneyhow's it going?10:44
TrevinhoLaney: sure, I know that... that's why I'm asking...10:44
TrevinhoLaney: good, good... Doing some qml work these days10:44
LaneyO_O10:45
TrevinhoAnd staying some days in Turin, now I'm in a coworking space near to the Politecnico... Quite nice.10:45
TrevinhoLaney: you?10:45
Laneynot too bad thanks10:46
Laneyreviewing FFes10:46
Laneybut at least I have a coffee10:46
andyrockmorning all11:25
willcookehey andyrock11:35
Laneyomgz the world is down11:48
* Laney stockpiles essentials11:53
ximion_Laney: I asked some GC-related questions at the D forums: https://forum.dlang.org/thread/tgypnluirhwmeqwuzcgb@forum.dlang.org11:55
ximion_so far, no reply, but they are rather special, so let's see11:56
ximion_(for another question I asked I got a faster reply which was basically "your workaround is good" and "don't use the GC and use refcounting instead" :P11:56
Laneyheh11:56
* RAOF resists the urge to be a pedant.11:57
Laneythanks for filing11:57
LaneyI was just trying to recompile with LDC and then everything on earth went down11:57
Laneyximion_: you could run with the ubuntu backend ...11:58
Laneyor if it's in the downloading stuff, use a remote mirror11:58
Laneygood job I decided to set this up in staging isn't it :-)11:59
ximion_Laney: jup, but who knew that this would be an issue?11:59
ximion_I don't see any off the bugs you describe, so it's either something in the Ubuntu backend causing them, or a GDC weirdness12:00
Laneyunknown unknowns, that's the point of testing12:00
ximion_Laney: I fixed something super-weird at the weekend: https://github.com/ximion/appstream-generator/commit/6ab455ed9c33c2e014a52d8c9539ba5169a6131d12:04
ximion_Lanes: I don't know why storing a pointer in the class and using it later results in wrong behavior there - according to the fontconfig docs, that shouldn't have been the case12:04
ximion_Laney: so either some bad optimization was happening there, or Fontconfig simply sucks. Both is equally probable, IMHO12:05
Laneyall these bugs are weird12:05
Laneylike the LMDB one we can't explain12:06
Laneycountdown to the C rewrite... :)12:08
desrthappy monday12:09
desrtresistance won12:09
ximion_Laney: uh, I hope I can get around doing that ^^ - multithreaded C is even less fun12:10
LaneyGThread!12:10
Laneyhi desrt12:10
Laneywell done12:10
desrthey laney :)12:10
ximion_Laney: for the fontconfig bit, *everyone* uses the library that way, so I kind of wonder why - probably because fontconfig is just buggy there12:10
ximion_Laney: I am pondering over writing a MongoDB backend for asgen... Shouldn't be too hard and would allow us to get rid of the mmap and also store massive amounts of data, which is interesting for the "I have thousands of PPAs" case12:12
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Laneyximion_: Ya we should think about the PPA thing12:17
LaneyMight want to make the asgen more cloudy to work with that12:18
Laneyso you can have 10 asgens that take requests from a pool, or something12:18
ximion_Laney: Mongo is the hipster thing to go with - can't be more cloudy ^^12:18
pittiTrevinho: replied to the hud MP12:18
Laneyyou'd need to do a work queue thing too12:18
Laneyand maybe other stuff12:19
ximion_LMDB will run out there, as it becomes pretty inefficient if you have too much stuff in there12:19
Laneylike make it a daemon that is polling the queue12:19
ximion_yes, will be quite an effort to plan and implement properly12:19
pittiTrevinho: ... or was trying to, until LP timed out :)12:19
ximion_Laney: especially plan it, I haven't thought enough about it yet, so if you have ideas - since Ubuntu/LP will - at time - be pretty much the only user of this, any feedback on how this should look like to work for you would be useful12:22
* ximion_ knows nothing about LP12:22
Laneynot sure right now12:23
Laneybasically LP submitting to a queue (amqp or something), then fetching from some well known place (maybe just the existing rsync)12:24
Laneycloudy is going to be no good if each instance needs 32GB though ._.12:25
ximion_Laney: yeah, we need to get to the bottom of this12:29
Laneyalthough12:30
Laneyif it's split by arch too then the leak won't be so bad12:30
ximion_Laney: when I asked https://forum.dlang.org/thread/uihemwyqzycxgvilhjbv@forum.dlang.org, the first reply was use refcounting, so in case the GC really is the culprit, we could certainly do that (and then need to check for reference loops...)12:30
Trevinhopitti: thanks, i'll fix that next days then... I guess it's better not to remove all the upstart stuff too12:30
Trevinhopitti: also, about that landing silo with indicators, shouldn't that only land in yakkety (while it was created with a triple landing)12:31
Trevinhocausing troubles, I guess12:31
ximion_but tbh, I don't think it's the GC - I kind of suspect LMDB or zarchive to be the problem here, nothing else could fill up 32G quickly enough12:31
pittiTrevinho: if you can get away with landing it in y, sure; but I thought some of these packages should be kept in sync between v/x/y12:31
Laneyximion_: we should make a small archive and valgrind it12:32
Laneyit grows with each arch12:32
Trevinhopitti: mh, i see.. I just would like to avoid the landing to delay more because of SRU bits12:32
pittiTrevinho: yeah, me too12:34
ximion_Laney: I am using almost exactly the same code (TagFile and archive stuff) in another project, and memory usage is fine there12:34
ximion_Laney: I also did Valgrind it at some point when the project was still younger, w/o finding memory leaks12:34
Laneywould be worth trying again12:34
pittiTrevinho: I don't know what the status of that is or what blocks it; but from my POV, anything that unblocks it is good obviously :)12:34
Laneyand with the ubuntu backend / with remote repo12:35
ximion_Valgrind got a bit confused by the GCs memory pools though, and GLib also sometimes has extra memory allocated (but there is some env var to work around that)12:35
ximion_Laney: you can alter the LMDB mapsize to something much smaller: https://github.com/ximion/appstream-generator/blob/master/src/asgen/datastore.d#L13112:36
ximion_then you can valigrind the stuff, but also only can process small archives12:36
Laneyyeah saw that12:36
Laneyi'll try it some point in the future12:36
* Laney is trying ldc build now12:37
ximion_Laney: you will run into https://github.com/ldc-developers/ldc/issues/177412:37
ximion_that's what you get from having a Git snapshot compiler in Debian :-/12:38
ximion_(markos, what did you do!!)12:38
ximion_Laney: if they manage to fix that quickly, then we are in luck and I can upload a fixed version asap12:38
LaneyI got a build ...12:39
ximion_the last beta version also works12:39
Laneyof the snapshot version, backported to xenial12:39
Laneyand that works to build asgen12:39
ximion_Laney: it just can't build itself :P12:39
Laneywhatever was in xenial can build it :)12:40
ximion_if it builds, it's fine ^^12:40
ximion_are you using Meson?12:40
Laneynot atm12:40
Laneytoo many backports12:40
ximion_^^12:41
* ximion_ goes through the D world writing Meson build files at time12:42
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GunnarHjwillcooke: Hi Will, the guest session feature seems to be broken in Ubuntu (with Unity); please see bug #1627304. It's not clear yet which package(s) are the culprit. Guest session works fine in Ubuntu MATE, so it's probably not lightdm. Anyway, just wanted to call your attention to the issue, since I suppose it's something which should be fixed before the release.13:13
ubot5bug 1627304 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "User locking problems - guest login crashing" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/162730413:13
* Laney late lunch13:46
willcookeerk, LP down?14:07
pittime 214:07
willcooketa14:07
* willcooke makes tea14:07
pittierk, it's not just LP -- http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/14:10
didrocksluckily I work on spreadsheets! </irony>14:13
willcookeruh roh14:13
willcooke:)14:13
willcookedidrocks, could you make a presentation about it?14:14
pittiI just thought "let's do some archive admin while I wait for this bisect"...14:14
willcookeha14:14
didrockswillcooke: indeed, with some Action items associated :)14:14
willcookedidrocks, \o/14:14
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Laneyoh noes!14:48
Laneynothing to do now, might as well go to the beach14:48
willcooke:)14:50
xnoxLaney, lol =)14:50
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Laneyblehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh14:54
didrocksyou did realize that it's raining outside? :)14:54
didrocks(says the weather website :p)14:54
Laneyas if that ever stopped a brit from going to the beach14:54
Laneyi'll even have a bbq14:54
didrocksahah, different standards!14:54
didrocksthat should remind you of those glorious days of launchpad update :)14:55
Laneyjust wedge the umbrella into the handle14:55
Laneyno matter if you get a little bit of plastic in your food14:55
Laneyadds to the flavour14:55
Laneyoh man, the pre FDT days14:56
didrocksFDT?14:56
Laneyfastdowntime14:57
LaneyTrevinho: can we make unity have Unity;Unity7 in XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP plz?14:58
Laneys/;/:/ # argh14:58
didrocksyeah, pre FDT, with an hour and half downtime ;)15:02
eyelashI just installed 16.10 from the daily ISO. works like a charm so far15:17
Laney:)15:23
Laneyshut it down now so nothing goes wrong15:23
flexiondotorglulz15:23
GunnarHjeyelash: Did you try to enter a guest session?15:25
eyelashGunnarHj: no15:25
Laneyomg there's a bug!!!!!15:26
GunnarHjeyelash: Please do (bug 1627304).15:26
ubot5Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1627304 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1627304). The error has been logged15:27
eyelashlaunchpad is temorarily unavailable :(15:27
LaneyI wouldn't bother trying15:28
LaneyNot sure why he's trying to get you to experience a bug15:28
GunnarHjLaney: ??15:29
LaneyWhy are you telling someone who had a good experience to go have a bad one?15:29
GunnarHjLaney: Mostly because I wanted you to have something useful to do. ;)15:30
TrevinhoLaney: yeah, not sure is defining it though15:31
LaneyOk, thanks for your concern - be assured that the bug is known :)15:31
LaneyTrevinho: It's in the session file - DesktopNames15:31
eyelashis there anything else I should test? I have a Radeon X1300 which might be quite an unusual card. will test unity8 in the coming days15:32
GunnarHjLaney: Great, and to be serious, that's what I wanted to make sure.15:32
eyelashI assume the theme bugs will be fixed before the release!?15:37
ogra_depends if launchpad comes back before release :)15:37
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davmor2Laney: any idea why compiz would go awol if you select the video scope?15:50
Laney015:50
Laneydid it crash?15:50
davmor2Laney: nope just used 98.2% cpu until the spinner stopped then dropped15:51
davmor2Laney: this is a fresh install so no actual videos on the system15:52
Laneydon't know, you would be better off asking a compiz developer15:52
davmor2Laney: hmmm okay15:52
Laneysoz15:52
davmor2Laney: no worries it was a longshot anyway :)15:52
Laneyjdstrand: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1627304 <- looks to do with the apparmor profile (setting it to complain makes login from greeter work); could you put it on your (or someone's) stack please?16:07
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1627304 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "User locking problems - guest login crashing" [Undecided,Confirmed]16:07
* Laney got called by pagerduty /o\16:08
tyhicksLaney: someone from the security team will look at that this week (it may not be jdstrand)16:10
Laneytyhicks: righto, thanks16:10
Laneytyhicks: I made it affect apparmor now16:10
tyhicksLaney: thanks!16:11
LaneyI mean, if the fix is in the profile then it's lightdm, but this presumably gets the right people to look16:11
flocculanttyhicks: re that ^^ bug - you asked for apparmor=Denied - yup that is there - will comment on bug16:20
tyhicksflocculant: thanks, that'll help a lot16:20
flocculanttyhicks: welcome16:22
Laneybeen a few mid air collisions on there :P16:23
willcookehmmm17:03
willcookecrashy17:03
davmor2willcooke: welcome to my world17:10
* flexiondotorg is still subscribing to mailing lists...17:41
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willcookeRight, dinner time.17:57
willcookenight all17:57

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