[01:02] <jrwren> we are mozilla, we are teh best example of why never to rewrite.
[01:04] <cmaloney> heh
[01:04] <cmaloney> I lay that more at Netsape's feet than Mozilla's
[01:05] <cmaloney> firefox is quite nice
[01:32] <jrwren> firefox IS quite nice.
[01:32] <jrwren> but still... never rewrite.
[05:35] <greg-g> jrwren: :) :)
[07:20] <Scary_Guy> Al Gore works at Mozilla?
[10:44] <cmaloney> morning
[12:20] <jrwren> i definitely did not understand that Al Gore comment.  Good morning all.
[12:20] <cmaloney> Inventing the internet
[12:23] <jrwren> oh, lolz
[12:59] <jrwren> postgresql 9.6 released! who is excited?!?
[13:21] <cmaloney> I am
[13:22] <cmaloney> I sent my old boss the release notes. :)
[13:26] <jrwren> ;]
[13:27] <jrwren> I did a double take when I saw the announcement said something about scale out. I had to go back, read it again, read the detail. I was saying to myself, "what are they talking about scale out?" Then I found it, and all I could think was. HUH.
[13:28] <cmaloney> Honestly I've come to realize that all of the interesting SQL DB development is happening in the PostgreSQL camp
[13:29] <cmaloney> I'm sure the various forks of MySQL are doing something interesting, but PostgreSQL has consistently made me actually give a shit about DBs
[13:29] <jrwren> yup
[13:29] <cmaloney> to the point where I want to adverb my sentences
[13:29] <jrwren> mysql is oracle. it is so fragmented between maria, percona, that other one and the oracle mysql that its... sad really.
[13:30] <cmaloney> Yeah, and Maria is repeating their mistakes
[13:32] <jrwren> is drizzle still a thing?
[13:34] <cmaloney> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drizzle_(database_server) <- the main site is down
[13:34] <jrwren> nope. it just died. There has got to be a story there, but I can't find it.
[13:34] <cmaloney> Wikipedia (which is never wrong) says the last release was in 2012
[13:35] <cmaloney> https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Drizzle-dead
[13:35] <cmaloney> Good ol' Quora
[13:36] <jrwren> did you work with Aker at /.?
[13:36] <cmaloney> Not ringing a bell
[13:37] <cmaloney> I think he was way before my tenure
[13:37] <cmaloney> I started around 2008
[13:38] <jrwren> i found https://web.archive.org/web/20140306052400/http://www.linuxjedi.co.uk/2014/02/is-drizzle-dead.html
[13:39] <cmaloney> So, not dead, but dormant
[13:39] <cmaloney> hibernating
[14:43] <jrwren> Postgresql is so good, I'm of the opinion that if you are ever tempted to use something else, because of feature X, it would be wiser to implement feature X in postgresql and use that.
[15:40] <cmaloney> no doubt
[15:43] <greg-g> I think our switching cost would be a little high at this point :)
[15:44] <rick_h_> performance or freedom, pick one
[15:44] <jayis> :/
[15:45] <rick_h_> at scale drop the ORM and marry your db (or write a custom business logic/app specific API in front of it
[15:45] <rick_h_> so at least there's less to rewrite to another db
[15:46] <greg-g> yep
[15:46] <greg-g> we theoretically support postgres in MediaWiki, but we've never used it in production and, with all of the multi-datacenter (hot-warm) work, I... yeah. mariadb for now :)
[15:47] <rick_h_> yea
[15:47] <rick_h_> you end up learning the very deep pitfalls at some point, and at that point you're tied
[15:48] <jrwren> greg-g: you'll not, I said tempted to use... as in picking at the start.  switching is something else entirely and almost never worth the cost.
[15:49] <jrwren> switching a database is either trivial because your app is trivial, or its akin to a rewrite because your app is married to your DB.
[15:50] <jrwren> lol... *note*
[15:53] <greg-g> jrwren: :) yep yep
[15:59] <cmaloney> I wish Wordpress supported anything other than MySQL
[16:03] <jrwren> i used to care. now I don't, since the mysql/wordpress setup is entirely automatic, it hides the mysql ugliness from me.
[16:03] <cmaloney> heh
[16:03] <cmaloney> Yeah
[16:04] <cmaloney> The only thing that bugs me is I have Oracle codeon my machines
[16:04] <cmaloney> but then again, I like Virtualbox and have that running
[16:04] <cmaloney> (the only thing Oracle hasn't completely fucked up)
[16:04] <greg-g> ....yet
[16:05] <cmaloney> hush
[16:05] <cmaloney> for all we know they're not aware of it yet.
[16:05] <jrwren> it still makes me cringe and i run it as minimally as possible.
[22:34] <cscheib> jrwren: I see you stated the obvious in that OSX juju bug... wtf are they relying on something that isn't sustainable - don't hardcode os stuff, or at least have a sane fallback