[08:01] <inetpro> good mornings 
[08:02] <inetpro> oh and good evening Kilos
[08:02] <inetpro> how's the weather down under?
[08:12] <Kilos> hi there inetpro pavlushka and everyone else
[08:12] <Kilos> sun today but still coldish wind
[08:12] <pavlushka> Heya Kilos :)
[08:42] <inetpro> really hoping that we'll get a bit of rain soon
[08:42] <inetpro> very, very dry here 
[08:43] <inetpro> outside is like a desert... just dust and sand
[09:14] <inetpro> Kilos: how's your health progressing, you at least starting to feel stronger again?
[12:32] <Kilos> yes getting stronger all the time ty inetpro . even sat till this time watching a movie on the idiot box with the girls
[12:32] <Kilos> now bed calling
[12:32] <inetpro> haha, ok :-)
[12:33] <Kilos> not looking forward to going home and have two bypass ops
[12:33] <Kilos> will try fix it naturally before i go home
[12:34] <Kilos> you all look after yourselves and have a good day and better night
[12:34] <inetpro> good night Kilos
[12:34] <Kilos> night my friend
[12:34] <Kilos> s
[12:35] <pavlushka> ahoy ZA!
[16:27] <kulelu88> hey superfly . how do you handle flask-api authentication?
[16:45] <gremble> kulelu88, very carefully?
[16:45] <kulelu88> #gremblemustfall
[16:46] <kulelu88> :P
[16:47] <gremble> #fiteme
[16:52] <kulelu88> gremble: people are saying that the entire 2016 academic year may go to waste if Wits doesn't fix things
[16:55] <gremble> That is the rumour, yes
[16:55] <gremble> I hope people are willing to employ partially educated mathematicians XD
[16:56] <MaNI> really bad
[16:57] <gremble> Really bad is a subtle euphemism for what is happening. If the 2016 academic year goes to waste, we will feel the repercussions for quite a while
[17:04] <kulelu88> #2016mustfall
[17:05] <kulelu88> the old adage: "get in, work hard, get out" rings so true
[17:07] <MaNI> tip of the iceberg, I do a lot of work for universities and almost all of them are talking about the same things, cutting of all projects inevitable staff reductions, these students will get their lower fees but they will destroy the international credibility of all our universities in the process
[17:12] <gremble> There are universities in countries considered the global south that do have free education. Countries like Mexico and Brazil. I know that the brazilian federal universities are on a similar level as ours. It is not impossible for the free education thing to happen. We just really need our national leaders to step in and do something. Right now the universities are suffering alone like they aren't public institutions.
[17:13] <MaNI> I'm not opposed to free education, but I'd point out that every countries circumstances are unique
[17:14] <MaNI> and that everything comes at a cost, in our current economic client and given various other problems we face it is unrealistic at best at this point in time
[17:14] <MaNI> s/client/climate
[17:15] <MaNI> I also question why these students need to be at places like UCT if they want to be studying for free
[17:15] <gremble> Because UCT is one of the premier institutions in South Africa?
[17:15] <MaNI> I couldn't afford an expensive education so I got a cheap one at UNISA, at a fraction of the cost, why should that not be good enough for them?
[17:15] <gremble> If not the premier
[17:16] <MaNI> see thats entitlement of note though - if you want something for free why should it be at the premier institution?
[17:16] <gremble> Why do you need to settle for second rate education?
[17:16] <MaNI> education is what you make of it.
[17:17] <gremble> UNISA is not a research facility. If I want to become an academic and I go to UNISA I've shot myself in the foot.
[17:17] <gremble> Additionally, if you want to do Engineering, you cannot go to UNISA
[17:17] <MaNI> but most of these students do not want to become academics
[17:17] <MaNI> poor argument I'm sorry
[17:18] <gremble> It is not. You're simply deciding for them what they want to do
[17:18] <MaNI> I can guarantee that 90% of these students are (a) studying in a field that is not job scarce (b) see it as a ticket to a job (c) have no intention to ever contribute back to academia
[17:18] <MaNI> that is a fact.
[17:18] <gremble> That is not a fact. That is something you just made up because it is public opinion.
[17:18] <MaNI> No I'm facing reality - something that clearly many others are not willing to do.
[17:19] <MaNI> your head is clearly deep in the sand 
[17:19] <gremble> Yes. Very deep in the sand. It is not like my future is at stake. Completely blind to all the nuance.
[17:52] <paddatrapper> MaNI: at UCT at least the students come from all faculties with quite an even spread over them. Some (for example one of the leaders Masixole) are doing their masters, but they are few, largely because of the nature of post grad studies - there are only a few of them compared to undergrads. If contributing back to academia was a requirement for getting an undergrad, then almost no one in the work place
[17:52] <paddatrapper> would have a degree. I support and respect those who do go into academia, but it is not the path everyone wants to follow 
[18:05] <kulelu88> wow, education is a sensitive topic these days
[18:21] <MaNI> paddatrapper, never said it is a path everyone should follow or want to follow. Was merely replying to the outrageous assertion "UNISA is not a research facility. If I want to become an academic and I go to UNISA I've shot myself in the foot"
[18:21] <MaNI> Which basically implies that all these students should be at UCT because they all want to be researchers. 
[18:22] <MaNI> If you read what I said - I even went on to state that 90% of them (probably actually an underestimate) definitely don't want that
[18:23] <MaNI> again nothing wrong with that - it just shows that the whole 'UNISA isn't good enough because they want to be researches' tune is a load of manure though
[18:54] <paddatrapper> Protests are happening at UNISA too
[19:00] <kulelu88> isn't unisa like extremely cheap? 
[19:01] <MaNI> indeed they are, and indeed unisa is extremely reasonable, being a mostly distant learning institution
[19:04] <kulelu88> seems like not everyone who is protesting wants fees to fall. some have probably failed already
[19:15] <inetpro> hmm... a very complex and very muddy subject with way too many emotions involved
[19:15] <inetpro> as much as I wanted it I didn't have the resources or the opportunities to study at a higher institution, I'd love it for fees to fall, sadly the solution is not as simple as that
[19:19] <MaNI> exactly
[19:20] <inetpro> in fact there will never be one simple "blue pill" solution to it all
[19:21] <MaNI> no of course not, and like all problems simply throwing money at it is not necessarily going to help, in fact it likely won't
[19:21] <MaNI> especially as I said, given the countries very specific conditions it finds itself in right now
[19:24] <kulelu88> The best solutions are "just stop the corruption and we'll have enough money", like that is easy :D
[19:29] <inetpro> we certainly have many solutions on the free/libre software side of it all but even with that presents so many challenges for people using the opportunities to make a living
[19:33] <inetpro> fact is, you can be rich even if you are poor, or the other way around
[19:33] <inetpro> money is not everything
[19:37] <inetpro> and together we can all be much smarter than any one of us
[19:54] <inetpro> but gremble, don't let these guys shut you up so easily
[19:56] <gremble> It looks like they have it all figured out :P
[20:00] <kulelu88> hey, I'm on team gremble #forharambe
[20:00] <kulelu88> :D
[20:07] <gremble> How far is your telegram bot kulelu88?
[20:07] <kulelu88> gremble: I have completed the logic of the bot. I am now researching my REST API 
[20:08] <kulelu88> http://blog.miguelgrinberg.com/post/restful-authentication-with-flask
[20:13] <gremble> Well it looks like you found your authentication method
[20:14] <kulelu88> gremble: I find authentication to be quite complex. The logic of most of it seems too complex for decent security measures
[20:21] <gremble> The first thing that I noticed with the post was the functions that reach out of their bodies to do things xD
[20:26] <kulelu88> heh, I looked at FP as an option for this (Elixir), but the learning curve is currently too steep
[20:27] <gremble> Python works :P
[20:27] <gremble> Doesn't matter with what you do it, as long as you do it :P
[20:27] <gremble> Unless you did it with C/C++, then that would be very impressive
[20:30] <kulelu88> writing code in C isn't that hard (if you're familiar with it), most of the work is built into libs already written
[20:30] <kulelu88> I'd rather write it in #nim though, but their extensions are few and far between
[20:30] <gremble> I know that part. I meant writing/using a web framework written in C. 
[20:34] <kulelu88> yeah, the LoC will be huge for it. Imagine dropping pointers for your session storage variables 0.o
[20:34] <kulelu88> memory leaks ftw!
[20:35] <gremble> Maas, Memory leaks as a service
[20:36] <kulelu88> you know what RethinkDB is?
[20:37] <gremble> Yes, the db company that is making news for closing down
[20:37] <gremble> I don't know their product though
[20:39] <kulelu88> aah okay so you know the story XD
[20:40] <gremble> I was hoping you were going to drop some knowledge bombs of the database itself
[20:41] <kulelu88> I do, use Redis ;)
[20:45] <gremble> Haha I'll keep that in mind
[20:46] <gremble> Whenever I need a database atm, I just use sqlalchemy. 
[20:46] <kulelu88> don't you need an actual DB behind sqlalchemy?
[20:46] <kulelu88> it's just an ORM
[20:47] <gremble> https://www.sqlite.org/ yes, my bad
[20:48] <gremble> they have the same name
[20:48] <gremble> >.>
[20:48] <gremble> Good thing I am not actually a programmer.
[20:48] <kulelu88> so you do use Python also? 
[20:48] <gremble> Python or R.
[20:48] <kulelu88> R <- yuck
[20:48] <gremble> I am slowly learning the thing of the data analysis
[20:49] <gremble> R is not bad. It also helps that the people that I write for can read R
[20:49] <gremble> Unfortunately for me I am one of the suckers doing research
[20:51] <gremble> A language that does vector manipulations like R and SAS/IML is not bad actually. IML has made programming in SAS almost bearable for me. 
[20:52] <kulelu88> Pythons code is just too readable to want to learn the tougher languages with verbose syntax
[20:52] <kulelu88> does SAS even work on *nix?
[20:52] <gremble> Nope. 
[20:52] <kulelu88> :(
[20:53] <gremble> I would prefer to not have to touch it, but the stats department uses it.
[20:53] <gremble> the geology department uses R or excel. I have self-respect, so I'll let them use excel and then import everything into R to work on.
[20:54] <kulelu88> can't you convince them all to standardize on Python? 
[20:54] <kulelu88> #closed-sourcemustfall
[20:55] <gremble> I might switch over to python for scikit. I want to learn some ML and it'll be fun to see what kind of models I can make
[20:57] <kulelu88> so are your semester tests this week or are you guys not sure if campus is opening?
[20:58] <gremble> No idea. The university has all but stopped communicating with us. I am supposed to be writing geometry on monday and that is obviously not happening. I have one assignment due for thursday, but any more than that I have no idea. 
[20:59] <kulelu88> eish! I feel for you mate. Regardless of wealth status, varsity is expensive for everyone and losing the whole year is scary
[21:02] <gremble> I am very scared because of the uncertainty. I've started dusting off CV's and thinking for what sort of work I would be qualified should it come to that next year.
[21:07] <kulelu88> A part of me also feels varsities are using scare-tactics to make the silent majority bend to their view against the protesters
[21:07] <kulelu88> "fall in line or you're doomed" 
[21:09] <gremble> There is shit on both sides. There are a lot of loud voices in the protests that have turned violent and anti-white. A lot of it sounds simply like getting the students whipped up and claiming struggle leadership credentials. 
[21:10] <gremble> But with all conflicts, the whole thing is very nuanced with many different voices
[21:12] <gremble> We had an interview with a protester on the first day of protests at UP. It was posted on youtube, and the next day he was leading the protests. The malleability of the entire structure is somewhat interesting
[21:13] <kulelu88> link to the video? XD
[21:16] <gremble> https://www.facebook.com/perdeby/videos/10154629906249198/ It was on Facebook, not YT, sorry
[21:18] <kulelu88> it is still closed on 10 october, see perdeby
[21:18] <gremble> Yup
[21:19] <gremble> I just got a club track via whatsapp that very excitedly says that
[21:20] <kulelu88> 0.o
[21:20] <kulelu88> do you think varsities and protesters are playing this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_%28game%29 ?
[21:21] <MaNI> kulelu88, It is not scare tactics, the universities are in huge trouble especially the poor ones that can afford it the least like UFH and UKZN
[21:21] <kulelu88> game theory is very nice in these situations (to see different self-serving entities trying to maximize their utility)
[21:21] <MaNI> I've been to both in the last few months and the sentiments were not good at all, this movement places them in huge difficulty
[21:22] <kulelu88> MaNI: 1 thing varsities fail to be honest about is their giant endowments. Tuks was last sitting on 20 billion or so in extra cash
[21:32] <squish102> Hey MaNI, you gonna try emigrate again?
[21:33] <kulelu88> squish102: is alive!
[21:33] <MaNI> squish102, probably not I'm pretty happy since I moved to cape town
[21:33] <MaNI> though anything is possible, have to keep an open mind and an eye out on trends
[21:34] <squish102> i'm always here
[21:35] <kulelu88> oh you lurk 
[21:35] <squish102> just a different time zone
[21:35] <kulelu88> lurker <- uueewww
[21:35] <squish102> well I do ask the odd ubuntu question too
[21:35] <MaNI> that even the supposedly 'more educated' of our country seem these days to be easily suckered by movements that do nothing but damage the country - like 'feesmustfall' is certainly a disturbing trend, it is like people are so used to being against everything (government) that they assume every protest movement is for the greater good
[21:35] <MaNI> very disturbing
[21:36] <MaNI> life still peachy over in USA?
[21:36] <kulelu88> MaNI: your assumption that a degree enlightens people is wrong though
[21:36] <MaNI> I don't recall saying that
[21:37] <squish102> I loled, we had a riot the other day... made me feel homesick
[21:37] <kulelu88> "even the supposedly 'more educated' of our country seem these days to be easily suckered by movements "
[21:37] <kulelu88> squish102: BLM!!!
[21:38] <squish102> ya, life couldn't be better... just missed the hurricane 
[21:38] <squish102> Blue lives matter!
[21:38] <MaNI> that was not in reference to degrees - though I can see how you might think it was
[21:39] <squish102> told my buddies, if they think that is rioting, they should have been in SA in the 80's
[21:40] <kulelu88> MaNI: semantics ;)
[21:40] <MaNI> so who are you backing squish102, Trump or Hillary?
[21:40] <squish102> haha... it sucks that is my only choices really :(
[21:41] <kulelu88> #cthulhu2016
[21:41] <squish102> had enough of the democrats though... bunch of socialists
[21:41] <MaNI> remind you too much of home?
[21:41] <squish102> buy trump is an ahole 
[21:42] <MaNI> can't argue with that
[21:42] <MaNI> heh
[21:42] <kulelu88> squish102: are you the oke who works for those dollar stores?
[21:42] <squish102> yes
[21:44] <squish102> and our company just got bought by another dollar store chain, which sucks
[21:45] <kulelu88> that means layoffs squish102 
[21:45] <squish102> and that company is about 10 years behind on tech
[21:45] <squish102> yes, been through one round... I begged to be one of them, but they wouldn't let me go
[21:46] <squish102> i need to get out with a package.. i don't want to explain the value of the newer tech again to this company... it was a fight the first time
[21:46] <kulelu88> what is the old tech?
[21:46] <squish102> like having to bring all systems back from amazon and azure back to on prem... like WTF
[21:47] <squish102> we a retailer, not a fcken IT datacenter...
[21:48] <kulelu88> that's not a bad idea. except the part of owning the infrastructure. Just rent your own Racks 
[21:48] <squish102> can you believe when I asked them to give me a good reason why to run exchange onprem and not in O365 they said they want to be able to "hold" their data
[21:49] <squish102> we all for platform as a service or software as a service... not running it ourselves... not enough people. brb
[22:19] <squish102> finally all 6 ubuntu machines running 16.04
[22:19] <squish102> one is still a problem and looses audio after being on for a couple hours... a reboot before needed fixes it
[22:19] <squish102> but that shouldnt be the answer
[22:25] <kulelu88> 6 desktop machines?
[22:30] <squish102> one main server, one backup server and 4 PC's connected to tv's running mythtv 
[22:30] <kulelu88> aah that must be work-related or 1 extremely hectic home setup
[22:40] <squish102> home setup
[22:42] <squish102> server is general perpose server running everything + mythtv to record tv. backup server is a server that I rsync to, jbod.. others are connected to tv's to allow you to watch whatever you want
[22:42] <squish102> mostly for my wife that can record up to 6 things at the same time ffs!
[22:42] <kulelu88> 0.o
[22:43] <squish102> she loves watching tv
[22:48] <kulelu88> muricans and your tv
[23:00] <squish102> changing now. everyone watches on ipads or phones now
[23:00] <squish102> even though i have chromecasts on tv's, they fine just watching on ipad
[23:01] <squish102> youth of today :(