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[03:07] <valorie> just filed the bug against Konvi: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/konversation/+bug/1635911
[03:08] <valorie> I was surprised that we don't offer the latest
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[08:02] <sheytan> Hey! Are the standard kubuntu ppas somehow hardcoded into kubuntu now? They were always on the list of "Other software" tab in Software properties but now i can't find them there. Even downloaded a clean iso to check this :D
[08:12] <acheronuk> kubuntu ppas will only be there if you yourself add them post install. it has never been any other way
[10:09] <ahoneybun> mm I wish there was a way to copy a panel
[12:03] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[12:51] <ahoneybun> valorie: I'm thinking of taking a night flight back
[12:52] <ahoneybun> gives me plenty of time to see the city 
[13:14] <clivejo> santa_: are you around?
[13:22] <santa_> clivejo: pong
[13:22] <santa_> what happened?
[13:22] <clivejo> hi, are you aware of the kdeconnect packaging?
[13:22] <santa_> nope
[13:22] <santa_> but I'm using it
[13:22] <santa_> what do you want to do?
[13:23] <clivejo> when it was ported to KF5, kubuntu started to package it as kdeconnect-plasma
[13:24] <clivejo> but upstream (KDE) didnt go with that and it remained the same, so Debian have recently updated the old packaging for the KF5 version
[13:25] <clivejo> Id like to follow them on that, but Im having issues with getting apt to totally remove kdeconnect-plasma and installing kdeconnect (1.0.1) in its place
[13:25] <clivejo> I added Breaks/Replaces, but maybe it should be a Conlficts?
[13:26] <santa_> it should be a breaks/replaces and a dummuy package kdeconnect-plasma depending on kdeconnect
[13:27] <santa_> do you have your work in git?
[13:27] <clivejo> so there is no way to totally get rid of kdeconnect-plasma?
[13:27] <santa_> I  told you how
[13:28] <clivejo> https://git.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/+git/kdeconnect-kde/log/?h=kubuntu_unstable
[13:28] <clivejo> ok, so needs a dummy package
[13:29] <clivejo> oh, I see, cause some users might not know about the change and apt install kdeconnect-plasma?
[13:30] <santa_> yes
[13:30] <clivejo> we need to have it installable under that as well
[13:30] <clivejo> sorry that fact didnt come into my head!
[13:32] <clivejo> also the git-buildpackage-ppa tool wont work for me
[13:32] <clivejo> it seems to be looking at LP PPA's and errors out
[13:34] <ahoneybun> how about we try to have the Kubuntu Vision meeting sometime this week or next
[13:34] <ahoneybun> then we have a Dev Meeting to plan things out from our Vision
[13:40] <clivejo> santa_: how does this look to you - https://git.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/+git/kdeconnect-kde/commit/?h=kubuntu_unstable&id=cb930c77a04e4bb2531137c6c625079f55a49b55
[13:40] <clivejo> ahoneybun: will you do the honors?
[13:40] <ahoneybun> the doodle you mean clivejo?
[13:41] <clivejo> last meeting I tried to setup with doodle was a disaster
[13:41] <ahoneybun> I'll try my hand at it
[13:41] <clivejo> didnt have timezones
[13:42] <clivejo> could we maybe have the KC meeting an hour before the Vision meeting?
[13:43] <ahoneybun> KC and Vision would be the same no?
[13:43] <clivejo> oh I thought KC meeting was just KC members, Vision would be open to all?
[13:44] <ahoneybun> well I would like to think we can take ideas from everyone in Kubuntu not just the KC
[13:44] <ahoneybun> community driven to the max there
[13:44] <clivejo> ok
[13:45] <ahoneybun> someone might have a better idea then we do
[13:47] <ahoneybun> so there is a link to enable time zone support in "Time proposals"
[13:48] <ahoneybun> Kubuntu Vision Doodle: http://doodle.com/poll/eq59t2bu5g7428ey
[14:03] <santa_> clivejo: that doesn't seem to make much sense
[14:03] <santa_> actually you should have
[14:03] <santa_> 1. a kdeconnect-plasma dummy package
[14:04] <santa_> 2. breaks/replaces in kdeconnect against kdeconnect-plasma (<< 1.0)
[14:04] <santa_> 3. kdeconnect-plasma dummy package must depend on kdeconnect
[14:04] <santa_> and that's it
[16:22] <clivejo> is KCI down?
[16:22] <clivejo> !ping
 I think so...
 That's so cool
 Luminia desktop built a git viewer and cloner into the file manager
[18:32] <acheronuk> clivejo: KCI seems dead here as well
 Its doing something on the server though
 Just times out or conection reset for me
[19:06] <tsimonq2> Hey yofel, clivejo, acheronuk, santa_: are we syncing from Debian yet? Is this something we'll discuss in the upcoming meeting? What's the deal?
[19:25] <santa_> that would fix absolutely nothing in kubuntu
[19:26] <tsimonq2> santa_: Syncing from Debian?
[19:27] <santa_> tsimonq2: are you aware of the status of kubuntu before some people had to leave the project? how did they achieved that? syncing from debian? or doing something else?
[19:28] <santa_> but anyway, it's a pointless "debate". if kubuntu gets back to where it was before the disaster all this "brainstroming" will end
[19:29] <acheronuk> It would still leave a big delta between our packaging and debian on hundreds of packages to resolve
[19:30] <acheronuk> Which we would then have to upload as a ubuntu version
[19:30] <acheronuk> I think?
[19:30] <tsimonq2> Should we merge packaging then upload?
[19:31] <santa_> I will repeat myself, how did the previous kubuntu developers achieved what they achieved? syncing from debian?
[19:33] <santa_> because in case you haven't noticed all the plasma5/frameworks/applications packaging was developed *in* kubuntu, not in debian
[19:34] <tsimonq2> yofel, clivejo, shadeslayer, ^^^^
[20:55] <acheronuk> KIC looks unresponsive on ping and via traceroute
[20:55] <acheronuk> *LCI
[20:55]  * acheronuk is having one of *those* days
[20:55] <acheronuk> KCI!
[20:56] <tsimonq2> I'm working on patching up SDDM.
[20:57] <tsimonq2> AKA fixing bug 1627340
[21:07] <acheronuk> [10:49] * kubuntu-ci has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[21:16] <tsimonq2> clivejo: Ping,
[21:16] <tsimonq2> s/,/./
[21:20] <valorie> wake up kci!
[21:23] <tsimonq2> clivejo: I have several useful fixes for sddm that I would like uploaded. :)
[21:25]  * acheronuk kicks KCI
[21:30] <tsimonq2> Argh, where is the repo for the KCI tooling?
[21:35] <acheronuk> https://git.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ci-admins/kubuntu-ci/+git/pangea-tooling/
[21:36] <tsimonq2> Hmmmm, ok.
[22:13] <valorie> ha, I just saw in another chan (#plasma):  <maxyz> I'm running 5.8.2, which is the one I've uploaded to Debian
[22:13] <valorie> which seems like good news for us
[22:13] <tsimonq2> valorie: Which is why I'm wondering when we will *finally* get it.
[22:14] <valorie> zz first
[22:15] <tsimonq2> I know, I asked before when we sync from Debian.
[22:16] <valorie> I don't believe that we do except perhaps in zz
[22:16]  * tsimonq2 nods
[22:16] <valorie> but I've never paid attention to that before, so pay no attention to my opinion
[22:25] <santa_> tsimonq2: back in the days, kubuntu was quite puntual providing new upstream kde releases, how did the deveolpers achieved that? syncing from debian?
[22:26] <tsimonq2> santa_: Probably not, but they have newer releases than us.
[22:27] <santa_> tsimonq2: great, and why is that happening?
[22:27] <tsimonq2> (at the moment)
[22:28] <tsimonq2> santa_: Because we had freezes and couldn't get that in.
[22:28] <santa_> oh, really?
[22:28] <santa_> because we had freezes?
[22:28] <santa_> no because we didn't have the proper permissions to do the job, and things piled up and piled up
[22:31] <santa_> also freezes existed before some people had to leave the project
[22:31] <santa_> so I don't think that's an excuse
[22:31] <valorie> Plasma 5.8.2 is because of freeze, however -- we agreed on that months ago
[22:32] <santa_> and what's the excuse for not having in in the ppa's
[22:33] <tsimonq2> santa_: There is one. I keep getting ignored... :(
[22:33] <tsimonq2> s/one/none/
[22:34] <santa_> there we got it. so if there isn't that there it's because things piled up too much for the 16.10
[22:37] <tsimonq2> clivejo: Can you please help me set up KCI in this VM?
[22:37] <valorie> I think this shows why we need a meeting soon to decide on shared goals
[22:37] <valorie> and then turn that into agreements on workflow
[22:38] <valorie> so we can all start rowing in the same direction again
[22:38] <santa_> I think it's exactly the opossite
[22:39] <valorie> what is the exact opposite?
[22:39] <santa_> we don't need any "yet another meeting" nor any other workflow, but just do any actual work to get the things back
[22:39] <valorie> do you mean workflow then goals, or?
[22:39] <valorie> ah
[22:40] <valorie> because I'm not a packager, I'm sure I don't exactly understand the issues
[22:40] <valorie> but I do hear lots of frustration
[22:41] <tsimonq2> +1 on the frustration
[22:44] <valorie> tsimonq2, santa_ -- the reason I think a meeting would be good is to clear the air
[22:45] <valorie> from what has been said on the list and here, I'm entirely unsure what the source of the frustration IS
[22:45] <valorie> besides that our tooling is not yet in perfect working order
[22:45] <acheronuk> while we need longer term methods and goals discussed and sorted, it seems more in short term it is coordination, allocation of tasks, who is going to do what when and how etc that is lacking
[22:46] <tsimonq2> ^
[22:46] <tsimonq2> Plus sometimes lack of knowledge on a certain procedure.
[22:46] <acheronuk> the 2 do play off each other though.
[22:46] <valorie> the ninja notepad doesn't do that, acheronuk?
[22:46] <tsimonq2> valorie: Nope.
[22:47] <tsimonq2> I don't even have a link for that any more...
[22:47] <acheronuk> when was that last updated? does it tell us what we do at the start of a new release when we are behind compared to debian?
[22:47] <tsimonq2> ^
[22:48] <valorie> not being a ninja I don't think I ever saw it
[22:49] <tsimonq2> I think that's something we need to utilize for sure in the future.
[22:50] <acheronuk> https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/10/21/%23kubuntu-devel.html#t01:54
[22:50] <tsimonq2> Eh screw it
[22:50] <tsimonq2> That's also something we need to do - clean out the topic.
[22:51] <valorie> Zesty Zapus is open for development, no freezes  - can be "ZZ is open"
[22:54] <tsimonq2> valorie: Middle ground. I dislike "ZZ".
[22:54] <tsimonq2> :P
[22:54] <valorie> ok
[23:01] <acheronuk> Anyway, I don't particularly fancy sitting around twiddling my thumbs, waiting for the result of a meeting that is possibly 1-2 weeks away
[23:01] <tsimonq2> ^ +1000000
[23:01] <tsimonq2> And you guys said I was jumping the gun...
[23:02] <valorie> yes, I wish we'd scheduled it sooner
[23:02] <valorie> not as soon as you wanted, tsimonq2, but already
[23:03] <acheronuk> there is clearly longer terms stuff that does require such discussion, but there is also some shorter term stuff that probably isn't THAT controversial, that in all honesty might only take just getting all the dev team on BBB for 1/2 an hour all at the same time 
[23:03] <tsimonq2> How about this, can we meet tomorrow on BBB after I get home from school?
[23:04] <tsimonq2> So like 9 PM UK time.
[23:04] <valorie> tsimonq2: please send an email to the list with the time in UT
[23:04] <valorie> or acheronuk
[23:04] <tsimonq2> I will.
[23:05] <acheronuk> ok with me.
[23:05] <valorie> it is a pity to not have a list of work for people to do when they have the time
[23:05] <valorie> I've tried to suggest a few things, but no replies
[23:05] <acheronuk> It is possible the main outcome of that is that we decide, yes, we have to wait for other things to be decided
[23:06] <valorie> well, beyond Konvi being updated
[23:06] <acheronuk> but at least even with that we would then be on the same page and not getting frustrated
[23:07]  * acheronuk kicks KCI harder
[23:07]  * tsimonq2 glowers at KCI
[23:11] <acheronuk> this week I would like to try to do something productive basically, even if that does fall short of staging new releases etc
[23:11] <tsimonq2> !ninjas | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2016-October/010820.html
[23:12] <tsimonq2> !ninjas
[23:12] <tsimonq2> You get it guys, see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2016-October/010820.html .
[23:12] <tsimonq2> +1 acheronuk 
[23:13] <valorie> thank you
[23:16] <acheronuk> in fact, in development terms, that might be a nice thing to schedule regularly. i.e. have a chat at the start of the week to discuss what people might do and coordinate a bit
[23:16] <tsimonq2> oh ffs
[23:16] <tsimonq2> screw KCI traking then
[23:16] <tsimonq2> Ok, good.
[23:16] <tsimonq2> I really like that idea, acheronuk.
[23:16] <tsimonq2> Even if it's a short IRC meeting.
[23:16] <valorie> is this stuff still relevant? Plasma 5.7.5 X-STAGING Y-ARCHIVE, 5.6.5 X-BACKPORTS / Apps 16.04.3 X-STAGING Y-ARCHIVE / FW 5.26 X-STAGING Y-ARCHIVE, 5.23 X-BACKPORTS
[23:16]  * tsimonq2 nods
[23:17] <tsimonq2> We need to discuss that tomorrow.
[23:17] <valorie> cool
[23:17] <acheronuk> may not be possible every week. or on BBB. but seems a good things to do on weeks we can get everyone in one place
[23:17] <tsimonq2> I agree.
[23:17] <acheronuk> otherwise things have a tendency to 'drift'
[23:17] <tsimonq2> And even if it isn't in real time. It could be over email or something.
[23:17] <acheronuk> whatever works
[23:17] <tsimonq2> Just a quick, "What are we working on this week?"
[23:18] <clivejo> tsimonq2: can you please stop pinging me
[23:18] <tsimonq2> clivejo: I apologize.
[23:20] <acheronuk> whoops
[23:31] <acheronuk> Alternatively, if we are going to sit around doing nothing for a week or so, I may investigate what Neon has to do that looks interesting
[23:38] <tsimonq2> acheronuk: Aaron had concerns, and I responded to him.
[23:48] <tsimonq2> valorie: Well said.