[00:52] <LinuxRanBrain> -------------------------------------------------------- The no trolls allowed, ask anything about linux, group for newbies to masters; always active Linux group. It's more like a lounge than a Facebook group.  Join our family and enjoy your stay.  We already have nearly 7500 members.   No trolling allowed.. This group is NOT a hacker group so please do not ask about hacking.  Also, be nice to eve
[00:53] <wojtex> hello guys
[00:54] <wojtex> I have Kubuntu 16.10 and I cannot launch KMail app - akonadi error...
[01:20] <herewegoagain> can anyone tell me why apt is timing out on us.archive.ubuntu.com?
[01:20] <herewegoagain> konversation wont connect either
[01:21] <herewegoagain> I can ping it just fine
[01:23] <herewegoagain> hello?
[01:47] <schnoodles> Is there a way to force my laptop screen to always be the primary monitor and #1? A lot of the time when the system comes back from the display being turned off it turns into the #3 monitor. (I think because it takes longer than the other 2 screens to come back)
[02:48] <user|67371> When I try to boot the liveusb install, it goes to a black screen
[02:48] <user|67371> Should i redownload the iso?
[02:50] <valorie> hmmm, we had bug reports for the beta, but we thought that was fixed
[02:50] <valorie> dang it
[11:26] <mparillo> I only get this in a VM, but others have reported this on real HW: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kubuntu-meta/+bug/1627348
[11:37] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[14:03] <vip> Hi, is kscreenshot missing for yakkety?
[14:04] <lordievader> Probably replaced with spectacle
[14:05] <vip> lordievader: thank you
[14:05] <lordievader> No problem
[14:05] <vip> need to change prtscn shortcut then
[15:01] <bubbafat_> Is there a keyboard shortcut for switching back to the default activity?  Meta+Q shows it in the list but I can scroll to it (I can obviously click on it).  Meta+Tab will shift from default to other activities but not to default.  Meta+Shift+Tab won´t change to it either.  Am I missing another option?
[15:03] <bubbafat_> I know I can set an activity-specific shortcut on the activity settings, but I was hoping to just be able to toggle through it like other activities.
[17:53] <powerking> hello
[17:54] <powerking> anybody with asm knowledge?
[17:55] <powerking> hello?
[17:55] <acheronuk> hi :)
[17:55] <acheronuk> !ask
[17:57] <powerking> asm the register eax
[17:57] <powerking> i need see result in terminal
[17:57] <powerking> mov eax, SYS_OPEN
[17:57] <powerking> 			mov ebx, userlistfile
[17:57] <powerking> 			mov ecx, 0x0102
[17:57] <powerking> 			mov edx, 0x0666
[17:57] <powerking> 			mov [result], eax
[17:57] <powerking> i try this
[18:02] <powerking> mmm
[18:02] <powerking> well the ask is, how to print eax register?
[18:05] <acheronuk> powerking: I expect this is not the best channel to ask in
[18:06] <powerking> ok
[19:32] <dhia> hello please i have a probleme with odbc oracle and Qt on kubuntu
[19:33] <dhia> who can help me i ducked it for days but result
[20:14] <user|69008> hi
[20:27] <gstnet> ahh, good to see people here. based on some reddit posts for a moment i thought i might be the last kubunut user
[20:44] <acheronuk> gstnet: nope. you certainly are not :)
[20:50] <SporkWitch> gstnet: not until something better comes around, or it continues its downward spiral to the point that it becomes worse than something else
[20:57] <sintre> lol i just had to tear apart a new notebook to get rid of win ten with a new ssd
[20:57] <sintre> yes got problems with kubuntu , but it works
[20:57] <sintre> thank god
[20:57] <sintre> :)
[20:59] <gstnet> SporkWitch:  I do not see that "downward spiral". I keep upgrading install from 2009 (it is at 16.10 now) and things just seem to work for me.  I do see people suggesting other options adn I keep thinking I should try them, but I cannot find reason good enough. I almost hoped I might be the last user to give me an excuse tro try something else :)
[21:00] <sintre> just delvopment  glitches imo , whith last install bootlaoader didn't work with new lts release
[21:01] <sintre> also some serous issues with dual monitors
[21:01] <sintre> i think most things will get sorted with time
[21:01] <SporkWitch> gstnet: regressions in virtual desktop support, pushing activities (which are buggy as hell and have incredibly poor performance), the downgrade from Muon to Discover for GUI package management (and the fact that Discover is broken unless you install Muon alongside it; it's not by default), breaking the Driver-Wizard (requires apt-xapian, possibly muon as well).
[21:01] <SporkWitch> and these are all issues in 16.04
[21:02] <sintre> i agree ,  on all of it
[21:02] <sintre> had to download multiple "update" managers
[21:02] <SporkWitch> i'm with you, it's been solid progress since around 8.04 when i really started using it instead of gentoo (the only hiccough along the way was when pulseaudio replaced the old back-end, but that was fixed a point release or two later), and it's managed that UNTIL 16.04, which launched VERY broken
[21:02] <sintre> finally after months i don't hall silly grey boxes surrounding my icons
[21:02] <gstnet> SporkWitch:  got it. Good thing I do not use any of the thing you mention.  I do not have use for activities and I am content with apt-get
[21:03] <SporkWitch> probably 15 as well, but i generally only use LTS releases
[21:03] <sintre> yea someone in this chat actually had to give me the instruction in command line to update everything
[21:03] <SporkWitch> gstnet: no one uses activities, they're rubbish, that's the reason for the deliberate regression on virtual desktop support, to try to force people to use activities
[21:03] <SporkWitch> (no joke, that is the official reason)
[21:03] <sintre> had like 260 ackages needing upgraded from clean isntal of last lts release
[21:04] <sintre> think we might need to rethink keeping that as the lts release lol
[21:04] <sintre> that was last week lol
[21:04] <SporkWitch> sintre: yeah, just did a fresh install on one of my machines as well; always loads of fun tracking everything down
[21:05] <SporkWitch> looks like the plymouth + nvidia conflicts have gotten worse, too; used to be nomodeset was enough to get it to boot, no i need to do nosplash entirely
[21:05] <SporkWitch> (only really an issue if you use LUKS for FDE)
[21:05] <sintre> although the whole set of intel drivers finally made my "extended" dessktop connect via hdmi work at it native resolution , still no fix for being able to clone at the native resolution though
[21:06] <sintre> absolutely no support for projecting screen to a smart tv or a newer blu ray player
[21:06] <sintre> :(
[21:06] <SporkWitch> y'know, would actually be pretty cool to have "all" as an option for which screen a window is displayed on; there's generally no good reason, other than performance, to mirror instead of extend.  if you need something on both screens, just display it on both screens, y'know?
[21:07] <SporkWitch> and by "projecting screen" do you mean e.g. chromecast?
[21:07] <sintre> i agree, but they gotta er make the goofy thing work hehe
[21:07] <SporkWitch> that's an issue on pretty much all devices that aren't google
[21:07] <sintre> broadcaste via wifi
[21:07] <sintre> via wifi card to tv or smart tv
[21:08] <SporkWitch> nothing anywhere supports wifi-direct, and if it does, it's flaky as all hell lol
[21:08] <SporkWitch> i've never gotten anything that claims to support it to work reliably
[21:08] <SporkWitch> better to just shell out for a chromecast (and a lot of newer tvs have integrated chromecast support)
[21:08] <gstnet> chomecast works fine here.. pc to smart-tv, but again, it is somethign i do not really have much use for.
[21:08] <sintre> that a usb dogle thingy
[21:09] <SporkWitch> chromecast works from chrome; arbitrary file / screen sharing with it is mixed
[21:09] <SporkWitch> and usually requires a plugin of some sort
[21:10] <SporkWitch> and yes, chromecast is a dongle, though like i said, some smarttvs now, especially the newer ones, have integrated chromecast support
[21:10] <sintre> yea , i can hope one day , in mean time would nice for clone feature to work given i have a 10 foot hdmi cable with no use for atm
[21:10] <SporkWitch> sintre: i'm 99% sure that's user error
[21:10] <sintre> certainly as you said not a needd feature
[21:10] <SporkWitch> sintre: AFAIK you just have to drag the displays on top of each other in the display settings, and that mirrors instead of extends
[21:11] <sintre> really?, maybe you not trying to be offensive
[21:11] <SporkWitch> (thanks for reminding me, btw, those are some more regressions: settings and UI are MUCH worse than they used to be, especially locale settings, which no longer allow for granular control of formats, instead you have COUNTRY DROP-DOWNS with hundreds of entries)
[21:11] <SporkWitch> sintre: again, pretty sure dragging the displays on top of each other does mirroring; saw someone in this very channel mention it in the past 48 hours
[21:12] <SporkWitch> so yes, user error :)
[21:12] <sintre> lets see , if it works give me fice minutes and i'll confirm if user error
[21:12] <sintre> gotta get hdmi cable again
[21:12] <SporkWitch> np; i'd test on my side, but i don't want to fuck up my own display settings lol
[21:12] <ahoneybun> !language
[21:13] <SporkWitch> cool, i'm already in compliance
[21:13] <SporkWitch> head back to tumblr and your safe spaces
[21:14] <ahoneybun> SporkWitch: I'm refering to the f*ck
[21:14] <sintre> na if this doesn't work i'll need play doe thearapy
[21:16] <SporkWitch> oh, so obscuring the word that your average 3rd grader already knows with a single layer makes it ok?
[21:16] <SporkWitch> sintre: not you, the one that is bothered by a single "fuck" not directed at anyone, but apparently thinks "f*ck" makes a difference
[21:17] <sintre> lol ok just booted to my tv , it mirros but hides my icons
[21:17] <ahoneybun> SporkWitch: simply watch the language please
[21:17] <sintre> automaticly , guess last update helped it auto correct somehow
[21:17] <SporkWitch> i will continue to make sure that my fucks are not directed at anyone
[21:18] <ahoneybun> stop it please
[21:18] <SporkWitch> sorry, f*cks
[21:18] <sintre> ok yea no fights with moderator whiele i had a tv crisis now
[21:18] <SporkWitch> (since that apparently makes a difference)
[21:18] <ahoneybun> mm
[21:18] <sintre> brb gonna go dig into settings again :)
[21:18] <ahoneybun> I'd rather avoid the whole word
[21:18] <SporkWitch> and i'd rather people act their age
[21:20] <Unit193> SporkWitch: The channel rules generally have a no cussing rule, it's pretty standard to follow rules for whereever you are.  You are free to curse in other channels, just please not here.
[21:20] <valorie> the channel rules are for the Ubuntu community as a whole
[21:21] <valorie> not special for here, and none of us is prudish
[21:21] <valorie> !coc
[21:22] <sintre> hmm odd it mirrors and i got some bezare / extended mirror display
[21:22] <sintre> gonna try to change primary display to lappy  as it says only hmdi ' tv' is there
[21:23] <sintre> see if that mirror thing works , probally is tv higher resolution than notebook
[21:23] <sintre> then its mirrors at lower resolution
[21:23] <sintre> which looks like err garbage? :)
[21:23] <ahoneybun> thanks Unit193
[21:24] <SporkWitch> amusingly, there's no mention of profanity, excessive or otherwise, in the linked policies
[21:25] <SporkWitch> and all of these tears because of a single fsck that wasn't directed at anyone, that only became an issue because of people whinging
[21:25] <sintre> ok lol hdmi was hiding ontop of notbook screenn < user error there
[21:25] <ahoneybun> SporkWitch: we'd like to avoid cussing all together
[21:25] <sintre> so how do i for it to mirror again pls
[21:25] <SporkWitch> you might want to update your policies then, rather than pointing at them and they don't make any mention of it
[21:26] <SporkWitch> rofl
[21:26] <Unit193> SporkWitch: You got a link to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/TermsOfService when you joined.  To discuss further, please join #ubuntu-ops.
[21:27]  * genii makes sure Unit193 and ahoneybun get fresh coffees
[21:27] <SporkWitch> yes, those would be the policies that make no mention of profanity; which i admit is rather surprising.  most make a point of mentioning at least EXCESSIVE profanity
[21:28] <ahoneybun> SporkWitch: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines
[21:28] <ahoneybun> final warning
[21:28] <SporkWitch> yes, i've read it, it makes no mention.  So what about "fanny?"  "buggered?"  Is it only american english naughty words?
[21:29] <ahoneybun> This means that you should avoid any language which may be considered offensive, including acronyms and obfuscation of such language.
[21:29] <[Relic]> Is there some way of stopping 16.10 task manager from sorting windows alphabetically when set to "do not sort"?
[21:29] <ahoneybun> which means that the word you used is covered
[21:29] <ahoneybun> either way
[21:30] <acheronuk> Language and Subject
[21:30] <acheronuk>     All Ubuntu IRC channels are visited by people whose ages vary, and whose tolerances of language and subject choice vary equally as much. Please be considerate of everyone and keep all the Ubuntu IRC channels friendly places for everyone. This means that you should avoid any language which may be considered offensive, including acronyms and obfuscation of such language. Support channels are usually very busy places, and we prefer them
[21:30] <acheronuk> strictly for support only.
[21:30] <SporkWitch> oh i see, well i'm offended by you addressing me improperly.  You should be referring to me as "i make mountains of molehills"; your misgendering and improper pronoun use is highly offensive.
[21:32] <sintre> WHOOT it fkin worked
[21:32] <sintre> ohh sh** trouble now
[21:32] <sintre> :)
[21:32] <sintre> thx for the tip had to hit the good apply button
[21:32]  * SporkWitch waits for it
[21:32] <sintre> mirrored with tv at its native resolution :)
[21:33] <SporkWitch> sintre: told ya :)
[21:33] <sintre> hehe happy dance happy dance
[21:33] <SporkWitch> sintre: and you doubted me :P
[21:33]  * SporkWitch hands out the hypocrisy signs, since the profanity a moment ago was ignored
[21:33] <sintre> hehe well i had to do a little more trial by eror but i learn with guidance
[21:33] <sintre> :)
[21:33] <sintre> now let me see if sound works
[21:34] <SporkWitch> oh, good luck on that one; i can't even get sound via hdmi to work reliably in windows, lol
[21:35] <ahoneybun> sintre: !language
[21:35] <ahoneybun> !language
[21:36] <sintre> seems , still conclict with reoslutions
[21:36] <sintre> as will cuto taske bars and icon when tv main hmm
[21:36] <sintre> well one step closer
[21:37] <SporkWitch|2> lol
[21:38] <SporkWitch|2> sintre: **** ******* ** *****
[21:39] <sintre> well can do a mirror but tv will default
[21:39] <ahoneybun> well then Unit193
[21:39] <sintre> probally seems different reoslutions now
[21:40] <sintre> are the problem
[21:40] <sintre> so only way to do a full mirror is to turn prohection resolution to match lapytop
[21:41] <sintre> then get blurry picutre
[21:41] <sintre> well another step closer
[21:42] <SporkWitch|2> let that be a lesson, sintre, never point out hypocrisy by professional victims offended by everything
[21:42] <SporkWitch|2> and yeah, i'm not aware of any solutions that allow you to do mirroring at different resolutions
[21:43] <SporkWitch|2> you'd need to extend the display instead, and use a program that lets you do a separate window; i believe libreoffice will do that for its powerpoint equivalent; can have your notes and such on one screen, while the presentation is full screen on the other display
[21:44] <sintre> there is a scaling feasture , but that doesn't increase res hehe
[21:44] <sintre> make it look like flinstones
[21:44] <sintre> :)
[21:46] <sintre> I think the mod is trying t keep the channel pg , but those pg kids have fouler mouths then we could hope for  :)
[21:47] <ahoneybun> those are the rules, simple
[21:47] <SporkWitch|2> it's more that they're the only one that noticed or cared, and whinging about a one-off not directed at anyone drew more attention than the allegedly offending action itself; then there's simply the principle of "might cause offense" which is an absurd standard to begin with.  I'm offended by how overly sensitive these children are, you don't see me calling for them  to be silenced.
[21:48] <SporkWitch|2> also noteworthy that i, the terrible, terrible curse-word user, am the only one who actually made a positive contribution in the past 15 minutes lol
[21:48] <sintre> yes you did
[21:49] <SporkWitch|2> glad i was right and you got it working, by the way :)
[21:49] <sintre> and we need more active people talking in here many times i've logged on into this channel and hours go by without anybody talking hmm wonder why  :P
[21:49] <SporkWitch|2> and i mean it when i say good luck on sound; sound via hdmi on computers has always been hell, in my experience.  Even worse on desktop, since they usually require an extra audio cable connected to the GPU itself
[21:49] <sintre> hell is bad word too be careful :)
[21:49] <SporkWitch|2> oh no, i said hell; the christians might cry...
[21:52] <sintre> enough fun with that for tonight , gotta recharge lappy battery
[21:53] <SporkWitch|2> hehe
[21:53] <sintre> this suxourz my fride is fully with thanksgiving stuff , no room to store beer to chill
[21:55] <SporkWitch|2> well, depending on region, could just set it outside lol
[21:55] <SporkWitch|2> at least you've got beer; i'm tapped out until my VA check comes in next week
[21:55] <sintre> central florida unfurtately
[21:55] <sintre> although cold snap over weekend , not cold enough
[21:57] <sintre> reminds me i gotta test the heat longer than 3 hours , this weekend
[21:57] <sintre> around here people start turning it on and alot don't come on can take days for ac/heat guy to get to fixing it
[21:59] <SporkWitch|2> i lived in georgia at one point, i get you; get even a cm of snow though and everyone loses their minds lol
[22:00] <sintre> alright next new lappy challenge is , how to enablge full dis encyption for my ssd inside of kubuntu
[22:00] <sintre> disc
[22:00] <sintre> this one is gonna be a doozey
[22:02] <SporkWitch|2> enabling it AFTER install is a lot harder than DURING
[22:02] <SporkWitch|2> honestly, it'd probably be easiest to just back up your files and nuke it, choose the FDE option during install
[22:03] <sintre> nothin import transfered to it yet
[22:03] <sintre> so that install option will use the encyption feature of the ssd?
[22:03] <SporkWitch|2> that would be my advice, then; reinstall and choose the "use full disk and set up encrypted LVM" option during the install
[22:04] <SporkWitch|2> if you have a yubikey or similar token, you can even set it up to use challenge-response with it to secure the keys
[22:04] <sintre> http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/ct250mx200ssd1
[22:05] <sintre> is my drive , older but works better than the crap 5400 rps thing dell sent with notebook
[22:05] <sintre> no clue what yubikey is
[22:08] <SporkWitch|2> hardware token with a secure element on it; can store pgp keys, x509 keys, OATH secrets, as well as two configurable slots that can be programmed for static passphrase, yubico's proprietary OTP system (notes to follow), or HMAC-SHA1 challenge-response.
[22:08] <SporkWitch|2> it also functions as a u2f device
[22:09] <SporkWitch|2> re: the yubico OTP feature, the big advantage with it is that the secrets are never exposed, assuming you don't modify that slot; the secrets are pre-loaded during manufacturing, and so it's only ever on their systems, and your key, it never goes over a network, arguably making it more secure than other OATH applications, which by necessity must transmit the secret to you over the network.
[22:10] <SporkWitch|2> in this case, the key is neve exposed except when they're loading it into their server and your key (since, in theory, it's physically impossible to extract secrets from a secure element; there are some attacks to defeat this, but they're pretty nuts, to the point of being largely academic)
[22:11] <sintre> well i think mine is 5 gen 13 from intel
[22:11] <sintre> not sure if it has that feature
[22:11] <sintre> and if it does probally locked by dell anyways
[22:11] <sintre> poked around in bios no option for a hdd password of any wort
[22:11] <sintre> sort
[22:15] <SporkWitch|2> nonono, sorry, i'm talking about using LUKS for it.  i suppose you could argue that it's not "true" FDE, since you need to have a single, small unencrypted portion for the software needed to unlock the LUKS LVM, but yeah, typically when we're talking about FDE on linux, we're talking about LVM with LUKS.  The Kubuntu graphical installer includes an option to automatically configure an encrypted
[22:16] <SporkWitch|2> LVM when it asks you what drive you want to install on, or if you'd like to partition manually.  NOTE: there IS a bug in the installer (has been for years) that fails HARD if you try to do encrypted LVM with manual partitioning; best to be able to have it do a whole drive, and add any other drives you want AFTER install.
[22:16] <sintre> well when i use the lts release the boot loader didn't install correctly
[22:17] <SporkWitch|2> weird...
[22:17] <sintre> to get kubuntu to work i actually installed original ubuntu and that dual booted system , so kind scared to use the kubuuntu installed to set a hdd pass
[22:17] <SporkWitch|2> back in a few, happy to try to help you toubleshoot when i get back
[22:18] <sintre> np , c ya in a bit
[22:26] <SporkWitch|2> back
[22:28] <sintre> wb
[22:28] <sintre> just surfing amazon for some xmas presents
[22:28] <sintre> forgot its freak like 1 month away lol
[22:28] <sintre> good news only gotta get 4 people something
[22:29] <SporkWitch|2> yay?
[22:29] <sintre> yea no kids here so 15-20 bucks each
[22:30] <sintre> why'd you ban sport wiitch
[22:30] <sintre> :(
[22:31] <sintre> well i hope they don't keep baning/kicking you
[22:31] <SporkWitch|2> this really is getting quite tedious, but hey, why contribute usefully when we can defend tumblr
[22:31] <sintre> boring chennl without anybody to talk to
[22:31] <valorie> could you take this to off-topic please?
[22:32] <SporkWitch|2> what? you mean the on-topic troubleshooting sintre's issues? lol
[22:32] <valorie> very disappointing conversation
[22:32] <valorie> not the actual support, which is fine
[22:32] <Unit193> SporkWitch|2: Or just discuss with them like said, in #ubuntu-ops.
[22:32] <valorie> but the adolescent "rules are made for other people" attitude
[22:33] <valorie> when just yesterday you were helpful
[22:33] <sintre> he was helpful for me today
[22:33] <SporkWitch|2> i'm regularly helpful, i just have low tolerance for hypocrisy and people offended by existence
[22:33] <SporkWitch|2> and i think the logs speak quite clearly to the fact that of the 4 people talking in the past hour, i'm the only on that's been helpful lol
[22:34] <SporkWitch|2> granted not exclusively helpful, but the only one being helpful lol
[22:34] <mm_> aaa
[22:34] <SporkWitch|2> as i was saying, sintre, i'm back, so what seems to be the trouble getting FDE working?
[22:34] <sintre> its the bootloader  installed from kubuntu lts i used
[22:35] <SporkWitch|2> what about it?
[22:35] <sintre> for some reason would not reconise it the eiu type thing
[22:35] <sintre> regular ubuntu install
[22:35] <sintre> overwrode bootloader and installed it probperly some how for dual boot
[22:36] <sintre> thats how i can use kubuntu on new pc
[22:36] <sintre> defaults to kubuntu
[22:36] <sintre> but can catch it and boot to regular unbuntu if i want
[22:36] <sintre> so not sure if its the lts release that the problem lies
[22:36] <SporkWitch|2> odd; i didn't think ubuntu was using anything different; was this the first attempt you made at a fix? is it possible something just went wrong during that initial install?
[22:37] <sintre> tried twice same usb stick
[22:37] <valorie> did you do a grub update?
[22:37] <SporkWitch|2> doubt the stick affected it, though i've historically had poor luck with bootable usbs
[22:37] <sintre> so it installs but for some reason my bios doesn't see the bootloader it put on the hdd
[22:38] <SporkWitch|2> silly question, but if you have multiple hard drives, is your bios looking at the right drive?
[22:38] <sintre> no didn't update anything just used the kubuntu iso for lts
[22:38] <sintre> then used unetbootin
[22:38] <sintre> then it installed fine to hdd
[22:38] <valorie> there is an old bug which bit me once where grub was installed on the *stick* rather than the HD
[22:38] <sintre> then wouldn't boot
[22:38] <SporkWitch|2> shouldn't need to do anything with unetbootin...
[22:38] <SporkWitch|2> (unless i'm being silly and that's the GUI installer application, lol)
[22:39] <sintre> yea its the make a bootable iso image for dummies linux thing hehe
[22:40] <sintre> yea thats weird valorie though why on earth did it go thru whole install then forget to isntall the loader lol
[22:40] <valorie> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/xenial/en/man8/update-grub.8.html has quite an indepth discussion
[22:40] <SporkWitch|2> is that actually a bug, or is it just confusing? both USB devices and sata drives get sdX designations, after all
[22:41] <valorie> well, it took me awhile to figure out because if I left in the usb, everything was fine
[22:41] <SporkWitch|2> i could totally see accidentally telling it to install the bootloader on the usb drive lol
[22:41] <valorie> once it was removed, no boot
[22:41] <valorie> but it's a heisenbug
[22:41] <valorie> seemingly happens randomly
[22:42] <sintre> well i used latest ubuntu which is new then the kubuntu lts , think that may have had something to do with it?
[22:42] <sintre> or was it forced to do a dual install then that made it install one properly
[22:42] <SporkWitch|2> that fits with my hypothesis that it's the naming; there's no guarantee that sda will be the same device from boot to boot; hence the change in naming schemes for things like network adapters
[22:43] <SporkWitch|2> sintre: don't know what to say other than to try it again and take notes, heh; that seems a VERY odd bug, one that i've never encountered before, but i use DVDs rather than USB for my install media, so that may be a factor
[22:44] <SporkWitch|2> sintre: the 16.04.1 image from a couple days ago works fine when burned to DVD, i can confirm.
[22:44] <SporkWitch|2> (and by fine i mean, "it installs correctly, but it still has lots of missing things that break stuff, as was mentioned earlier")
[22:45] <sintre> got only a few spare dvds , but something else happpend connected
[22:45] <SporkWitch|2> nice thing about optical media is that it's CHEAP
[22:45] <sintre> i wanted to flash the firmare of my sdd in new lappy
[22:45] <sintre> did the whole make usb iso thing
[22:45] <SporkWitch|2> on your own there; i've not messed with SSDs at all; they were too costly at the time of my last build, and i've been broken since i separated from the military lol
[22:45] <sintre> didn'tr reconise it
[22:46] <SporkWitch|2> s/broken/broke/
[22:46] <sintre> burned my last blank Dvd booted and updadted fine
[22:47] <sintre> na something with this new boot reconising thing in bios might have something to do with it
[22:47] <sintre> forgot the acronym
[22:48] <SporkWitch|2> UEFI secure boot?
[22:48] <sintre> yea
[22:48] <valorie> !efi
[22:48] <SporkWitch|2> that might explain it; ubuntu's is signed; i dont think the one on the kubuntu installer is
[22:48] <valorie> imo that has gotten better and better
[22:48] <valorie> by which I mean ubuntu dealing with it
[22:48] <sintre> yes yes lets get this one fixed!
[22:49] <SporkWitch|2> well, UEFI didn't exactly have much of anyplace to go BUT up
[22:49] <valorie> SporkWitch|2: that might have been true for awhile, but I believe that to be long fixed
[22:49] <SporkWitch|2> dunno, the only EFI device i have is my chromebook lol
[22:49] <sintre> valorie> 10 tries it aint fixed for me and my machine
[22:49] <ahoneybun> it's worked fine on my laptop with no issues
[22:49] <sintre> lappy is brand new
[22:49] <SporkWitch|2> sintre: it's not a matter of tries; Secure Boot uses asymmetric encryption to verify the integrity of the bootloader; if ti's not signed by a trusted key, it won't boot
[22:50] <sintre> yes this is a 8 year old laptop i'm typing it install fine here
[22:50] <sintre> new laptop purchased 1 month ago iw won't boot
[22:51] <SporkWitch|2> sintre: the EASIEST fix is to just disable secure boot (often called "legacy boot" in the settings) so that you can load unsigned bootloaders; this has a security cost, as you are no longer protected from malware rewriting the bootloader
[22:51] <sintre> so don't want to fight , but if its a bug that can be fixed well i'd hope we try to get word out about it
[22:51] <sintre> if they can fix it in ubuntu why they hell can't they use that bootloader in kubuntu iso's?
[22:51] <sintre> <sry christians
[22:52] <ahoneybun> UEFI works fine here
[22:52] <valorie> this isn't about christians, the rules for the chan say keep it family friendly
[22:52] <ahoneybun> you just need to make a EFI partition, install the bootloader to that partition
[22:52] <SporkWitch|2> try setting the new one to legacy boot and see what happens; if it works, then that means the bootloader isn't signed and/or the correct key isn't trusted by your machine (it SHOULD be possible to install the pubkey, but again, easier to just turn off secure boot)
[22:52] <valorie> no problem with uefi here either, and this machine is recent
[22:53] <valorie> Sysinfo for 'valorie-GT60-2PC': Running inside KDE Plasma 5 on Ubuntu 16.10 (Yakkety Yak) powered by Linux 4.8.0-27-generic, CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4810MQ CPU @ 2.80GHz at 1899-1900/3800 MHz, RAM: 23811/24029 MB, Storage: 319/967 GB, 354 procs, 25.72h up
[22:53] <SporkWitch|2> no mention of family, either
[22:53] <sintre> my machine runs FINE , this whole convo is about the INSTALL
[22:53] <sintre> which only would be reconised after ubuntu newest version was installed dually and it placed the correct bootloader
[22:54] <SporkWitch|2> sintre: well then it didn't run fine, because one bootloader is working but not the other, hence my suspicion that you have secure boot on, one is signed, and the other isn't.
[22:54] <Unit193> ahoneybun: Kubuntu sets GRUB_DISTRIBUTOR which would make grub use different rules since it'd check for 'Ubuntu' there, and fallback when 'Kubuntu' was set.  That's been long fixed though.
[22:54] <sintre> not as tech savy as you guys but i know what i did and didn't do what worked and din't
[22:55] <sintre> spork> i agree it didn't work fine but it somehow boots and works , only solution that i could do
[22:55] <sintre> and no i don't have any real plans for original ubuntu
[22:56] <SporkWitch|2> dunno what to tell you mate, you're not really giving me anything else to work with, and you don't seem willing to work with me to figure it out.
[22:56] <sintre> so , the pc is clean so i can still trobule shoot it , no data loss or anything
[22:56] <sintre> well starting clean , boot and install from usb
[22:56] <sintre> same problem won't boot from hdd after install
[22:57] <sintre> or do i need to change settings before install?
[22:57] <sintre> really where to begin if this problem is consistent
[22:57] <SporkWitch|2> disable secure boot / set it to legacy boot, then see if it boots
[22:58] <sintre> that doesn't seem to explain how the other bootloader works
[22:58] <SporkWitch|2> A is signed, B is not.  Secure boot is on.  A boots, B does not.
[22:59] <SporkWitch|2> my hypothesis is that the ubuntu one is signed by a key in the trust store; the kubuntu one may not be signed, or if it is, may not be signed by a key in the trust store.
[22:59] <SporkWitch|2> if switching to legacy boot works, that would preliminarily confirm my hypotheiss
[22:59] <SporkWitch|2> *hypothesis
[23:00] <sintre> yea gonna keep it in my tomorrow , gotta dig out flash drives and some dvds
[23:00] <sintre> btw you called me mate i assume australian or english
[23:01] <sintre> tomorrow is turkey day her ein america , so gotta survive that before this new challenge :)
[23:01] <SporkWitch|2> american, but with a decade or so on EVE Online and a few years in europe
[23:01] <SporkWitch|2> lol
[23:01] <sintre> lol ok
[23:01] <sintre> yea tomorrow night or friday i'll take this project on, i'm curious too
[23:01] <sintre> makes no sense , but gotta be a reason somewhere
[23:01] <SporkWitch|2> feel free to ping sporkwitch, i'll be happy to help
[23:02]  * SporkWitch|2 hopes he fixed the settings on his bouncer to properly deliver PMs received while not connected...
[23:02] <sintre> will do ,
[23:38] <plaked> does anyone know how can i run a program in background?
[23:39] <ikonia> suffix of &
[23:39] <plaked> i mean i want to run spotify, whatsie and thunderbird in background
[23:39] <ikonia> eg: xterm &
[23:39] <plaked> i did spotify &
[23:39] <plaked> but it still appear in my main bar
[23:40] <ikonia> why would you expect it not to ?
[23:40] <sintre> so you wan tthem running but not taking up space in you lil task bar?
[23:40] <plaked> yes
[23:40] <plaked> right
[23:40] <sintre> i think you can do on eof those hidden lil widet task bars
[23:40] <sintre> and park it there
[23:40] <sintre> and it pops off screen until you move your cursour over to edge
[23:41] <sintre> that aybe be just with launch icons , not sure about runing progs tough
[23:41] <sintre> though
[23:41] <plaked> ok let me try
[23:42] <plaked> and another qustion
[23:42] <plaked> when i go outlook it says
[23:42] <plaked> DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN
[23:43] <sintre> beyond my knowledge , sure someone else here will come around with more experience here soon
[23:43] <sintre> seem like a quiet bunch but they're lurking :)
[23:43] <plaked> hahaha
[23:44] <ikonia> plaked: what do you mean "go to outlook" do you mean the office 365 website ?
[23:44] <plaked> yep
[23:44] <ikonia> where are you seeing that error
[23:44] <plaked> outlook.live.com
[23:44] <plaked> or
[23:44] <ikonia> in the browser ?
[23:44] <plaked> hotmail.com
[23:44] <plaked> yep
[23:44] <plaked> i use chromium
[23:44] <plaked> but it happen to me with several browsers
[23:45] <plaked> as rekonq
[23:45] <plaked> and another with a bear
[23:45] <plaked> polar bar
[23:45] <plaked> bear
[23:45] <ikonia> it looks like dns is not working properly on your host
[23:45] <sintre> ok i tried the new panel plus , auto hide in my system
[23:46] <sintre> i can't get active windows over there either , still looking for settings
[23:46] <plaked> :S
[23:50] <sintre> i wouldn't lose hope i'm sure it can b done somehow , just browsing thru windows manager settings alot of stuff is there
[23:50] <sintre> need somebody a lil bit more familiar with kde than me
[23:50] <sintre> i'd like to know how as well
[23:52] <sintre> this is a way but it'll take your main task bar away kinda
[23:53] <sintre> right click on bottom bar then panale options then auto hide
[23:53] <sintre> panael
[23:53] <sintre> panel bla sry
[23:54] <sintre> but no idea how to get programs to go into other panels that auto hide