| -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.04 - i386 - i386 built. | 04:26 | |
| -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.04 - amd64 - amd64 built. | 04:56 | |
| Unit193 | ochosi: I know what the problem there is. | 07:11 |
|---|---|---|
| Unit193 | flocculant: Wooo! May have even fixed it! After apt update, check apt list | grep ed,loc and check what's there. I deleted xfconf from the PPA quite some time ago, but looks like it never got deleted from LP (just hidden from view), so I hit the delete button a few more times right now and it's no longer in the archive either. | 07:19 |
| Unit193 | ochosi: ↑ | 07:20 |
| ochosi | Unit193: oh, it was the "new"/unreleased gtk3 port of xfconf? | 07:22 |
| Unit193 | Yeah, the crappy one that breaks everything. Hence why stuff was broken. :D | 07:22 |
| ochosi | humpf | 07:24 |
| ochosi | thanks for noticing :) | 07:24 |
| ochosi | that would have been nasty to debug | 07:24 |
| Unit193 | I fixed/re-installed/etc my VM. | 07:25 |
| Unit193 | ochosi: Howdy. | 07:33 |
| ochosi | and howdy, what's up? :) | 07:35 |
| Unit193 | Not much at 0240. | 07:36 |
| flocculant | Unit193: I'll reinstall my vm - and recheck that gtk3 stuff then - purging ppa and re-adding I still see problem | 07:43 |
| flocculant | I notice the ppa is emptier than it was though :) | 07:43 |
| Unit193 | flocculant: As of a few minutes ago? And yeah, pushing them to zesty. Did you get anything back from that command? | 07:43 |
| flocculant | ppa purge worked ok - ppa add appeared to have issues | 07:45 |
| flocculant | I'll be awake this afternoon :p | 07:46 |
| bluesabre | Unit193, I would have never figured that out | 11:33 |
| ochosi | hey bluesabre | 12:17 |
| flocculant | ochosi bluesabre Unit193 - now running gtk3 ppa in zesty here again - at least the few bits left in the ppa | 12:29 |
| Unit193 | flocculant: Did you do whatever it was that you were going to do later, btw? | 22:08 |
| flocculant | Unit193: perhaps ... | 22:09 |
| flocculant | if it was gtk3 - then yea - have that now on this machine | 22:09 |
| flocculant | knome: so I'm back with that really annoying login to admin on x.o and only get my profile thing again :( | 22:10 |
| flocculant | and now ... | 22:10 |
| flocculant | took ~10 tries | 22:11 |
| knome | hmm. | 22:11 |
| knome | oh well, IS issues:P | 22:11 |
| flocculant | yea :p | 22:11 |
| flocculant | knome: ok site updated | 22:15 |
| knome | thanks again | 22:15 |
| ochosi | Unit193: any plans for setting up a meeting? | 22:16 |
| Unit193 | Oh I'm next? | 22:16 |
| ochosi | it seems | 22:17 |
| knome | Unit193, do you not read meeting logs? | 22:17 |
| Unit193 | knome: Read: yes, remember: no. | 22:17 |
| Unit193 | ochosi: Need something specific? | 22:21 |
| ochosi | nope, just a friendly reminder | 22:21 |
| Unit193 | OK, cool. Thanks then. | 22:21 |
| flocculant | knome: mailed list with changes too | 22:25 |
| flocculant | evening ochosi :) | 22:25 |
| knome | cheerio | 22:25 |
| flocculant | knome: cya | 22:25 |
| flocculant | though I'm not sure you meant that :p | 22:25 |
| knome | nope :P | 22:26 |
| flocculant | :D | 22:26 |
| bluesabre | hey ochosi | 22:27 |
| bluesabre | and hi everyone | 22:27 |
| flocculant | hi bluesabre | 22:27 |
| ochosi | evening bluesabre | 22:27 |
| Unit193 | bluesabre: Howdy. | 22:27 |
| bluesabre | hey! | 22:28 |
| Unit193 | ochosi: Unless specifically called for, upcoming weeks are going to be a bit more complicated. | 22:28 |
| ochosi | well we can do an impromptu meeting now ;) | 22:28 |
| ochosi | knome, bluesabre: we should also do our initial council meeting... | 22:29 |
| knome | yep | 22:29 |
| bluesabre | ochosi, indeed | 22:29 |
| ochosi | bluesabre: plus, if/when you have time, maybe discuss some roadmappy things (which would mostly belong to #xfce-dev prolly) | 22:29 |
| bluesabre | ochosi, anytime | 22:30 |
| bluesabre | (including now) | 22:30 |
| knome | yeah, works for me | 22:30 |
| ochosi | k, why not | 22:30 |
| flocculant | Unit193: you're off that hook then - swim away quickly :p | 22:32 |
| Unit193 | flocculant: Swimming then. | 22:32 |
| knome | #startmeeting Xubuntu council meeting | 22:33 |
| meetingology | Meeting started Wed Nov 23 22:33:39 2016 UTC. The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. | 22:33 |
| meetingology | Available commands: action commands idea info link nick | 22:33 |
| knome | #chair ochosi bluesabre | 22:33 |
| meetingology | Current chairs: bluesabre knome ochosi | 22:33 |
| bluesabre | woohoo | 22:33 |
| knome | anything specific we want in the agenda? | 22:34 |
| bluesabre | nothing specific from me | 22:34 |
| slickymaster | whatie!?!?!?! | 22:35 |
| knome | slickymaster? | 22:35 |
| slickymaster | meeting today? | 22:35 |
| knome | slickymaster, council, impromptu | 22:35 |
| slickymaster | oh | 22:35 |
| slickymaster | sorry | 22:35 |
| knome | but feel free to follow and comment if there's something | 22:35 |
| bluesabre | (surprise!) | 22:35 |
| knome | ochosi, anything for the agenda? | 22:35 |
| ochosi | the only specific thing i would like to finalize (although we have discussed it previously via email) is our communication channels | 22:36 |
| knome | mhm | 22:36 |
| ochosi | we can also discuss and finalize other generic stuff like voting | 22:36 |
| ochosi | but my presumption is that it'll be the same as with general votes | 22:36 |
| knome | my other item is the blog article for council that has been under work | 22:36 |
| knome | ok, so | 22:36 |
| knome | #topic Council communication | 22:36 |
| ochosi | good | 22:36 |
| knome | this has indeed been discussed before in council-exclusive emails, and the gist is: | 22:37 |
| knome | (correct me if i'm wrong) | 22:37 |
| knome | eugh, sorry for the delay | 22:38 |
| bluesabre | :) | 22:38 |
| knome | so the basic gist: | 22:38 |
| knome | - the council decides whether any discussion needs to be private, but mostly it will be public | 22:39 |
| knome | - if a decision is made in private, the reasons behind the decision will still be made public | 22:39 |
| knome | - the council will NOT have a separate mailing list (even a private one) for now | 22:39 |
| flocculant | mmm | 22:40 |
| knome | anything that needs clarification? | 22:40 |
| flocculant | point | 22:40 |
| knome | sure | 22:40 |
| ochosi | i'd explicitely say that we'll use the xubuntu devel ml for now | 22:40 |
| ochosi | not just "NO separate ml" | 22:40 |
| bluesabre | yeah, I'd agree with that | 22:40 |
| knome | ochosi, well yeah, that's implied; we'll use the regular communication methods unless we want to discuss something in private | 22:41 |
| knome | but ok | 22:41 |
| flocculant | while I can understand not wanting to do the whole private m/l - that means that discussion that might be private are not ever available to council members in future | 22:41 |
| flocculant | which could be an issue perhaps | 22:41 |
| knome | flocculant, we did discuss that | 22:41 |
| knome | it's actually very likely that kind of discussion would happen in IRC | 22:41 |
| knome | so there would have to be some kind of logging for that | 22:41 |
| flocculant | mmm | 22:42 |
| ochosi | also, "the reasons behind the decision will still be made public" | 22:42 |
| flocculant | well - I'm just making the point is all :) | 22:42 |
| ochosi | this implies to me that not just the decision but also the gist of the discussion shall be made public | 22:42 |
| knome | flocculant, sure, wanted to let you know that we did indeed think about it | 22:42 |
| flocculant | ochosi: not sure that makes a lot of difference | 22:42 |
| knome | ochosi, indeed | 22:42 |
| flocculant | anyway - point made :) | 22:43 |
| ochosi | point taken | 22:43 |
| knome | ochosi, wasn't that what we agreed on? | 22:43 |
| ochosi | knome: yup, just wanted to say it expressis verbis | 22:43 |
| bluesabre | Do we want to utilize a tag when communicated over the mailing list, e.g. [COUNCIL] to make it easier to sort out historical discussion? | 22:43 |
| knome | again, obviously if it's anything that requires keeping stuff private for intimacy reasons, then it's not going to be released | 22:43 |
| knome | bluesabre, that sounds like we should just create that mailing list :P | 22:44 |
| knome | and flocculant's point on the -offtopic channel speaks for that too | 22:44 |
| bluesabre | knome, yeah, but we also use [TEAM] for team discussion on the devel list | 22:44 |
| knome | in any case, i don't think that list will be very high traffic | 22:44 |
| bluesabre | (or have in the past) | 22:45 |
| knome | bluesabre, i don't think we'd take "council discussion" to the mailing list | 22:45 |
| knome | i mean... | 22:45 |
| knome | again, it feels like it's more suited for IRC and real-time | 22:45 |
| bluesabre | so it would be more, announcements from the council | 22:45 |
| knome | yes | 22:45 |
| bluesabre | that's reasonable | 22:45 |
| knome | and those announcements do not concern the council only, they are whole project, so i'm not sure what the council tag would be for | 22:46 |
| knome | "this is what the council will force on you all" | 22:46 |
| knome | :P | 22:46 |
| bluesabre | "Ugh, another COUNCIL email" | 22:46 |
| knome | (no, please not like that, i want the council to be as transparent and at the same level as the team9 | 22:46 |
| bluesabre | right | 22:46 |
| ochosi | yeah | 22:47 |
| bluesabre | so most (if not all) council communication occurs on #xubuntu-devel, announcements are made to the -devel m/l | 22:47 |
| ochosi | to me the council is also a safety net against the "single point of failure" XPL | 22:47 |
| knome | so, | 22:48 |
| knome | should it all be expressed this way: | 22:48 |
| ochosi | so not that much active "council stuff" is going to go down in my expectation at least | 22:48 |
| bluesabre | That's how I also understand it | 22:48 |
| knome | - council will do any discussion-like communication on IRC, announcements and requests for feedback on -devel | 22:48 |
| knome | that is, for THIS council setup | 22:48 |
| knome | this isn't something we'll write on the strategy document | 22:49 |
| knome | (but maybe we should consider adding something general there about the public/private discussion part) | 22:49 |
| ochosi | you mean to not prevent future councils to take a more proactive approach..? | 22:50 |
| * knome shrugs | 22:50 | |
| bluesabre | largely to just have an official statement on these things should questions or eyebrows be raised | 22:50 |
| knome | why do we have a strategy document if the strategy is whatever the majority of currently active people agree on? | 22:51 |
| knome | of course future councils or whatever can just change the section on the SD | 22:51 |
| bluesabre | certainly | 22:52 |
| knome | ok, so | 22:53 |
| knome | 1) most discussion is public, private only if the council feels it's required for the issue at hand | 22:53 |
| knome | 2) if discussion is private, any decisions and the rationale for the decision will be made public, unless making the rational public would infringe personal privacy or something alike | 22:55 |
| knome | 3) council discussion will mostly be had in IRC; the xubuntu-devel mailing list is used for any council announcements and requests for feedback | 22:56 |
| knome | 4) council announcements will also be announced on the community meetings | 22:56 |
| ochosi | sounds good to me | 22:56 |
| knome | 5) the council will have scheduled and/or impromptu meetings on #xubuntu-devel; the meeting minutes (and logs) will be sent to the xubuntu-devel mailing list | 22:57 |
| knome | phew | 22:57 |
| knome | did somebody want to mull over the public/private discussion issue and the decision making leading to a private one? | 22:59 |
| knome | eg. do we need to express more clearly that the council will not take discussions private unless the council really thinks privacy requires it or it is a really sensitive issue otherwise? | 22:59 |
| knome | apparently not | 23:00 |
| knome | #action knome to send a summary of the council communication discussion to the ML | 23:00 |
| meetingology | ACTION: knome to send a summary of the council communication discussion to the ML | 23:00 |
| bluesabre | anything that even suggests a lack of transparency or openness is generally going to be frowned upon | 23:00 |
| Unit193 | knome: Only thing I can think of is sending the private logs to the team server so that they're more archived for later council members. | 23:00 |
| knome | Unit193, right, the only "issue" with that is that people not in the council have access to that | 23:01 |
| knome | again, not a statement of trust issues, but it's not foolproof | 23:01 |
| Unit193 | Indeed, thought of that. | 23:01 |
| knome | also, does ochosi have access to the server? | 23:01 |
| knome | or bluesabre? | 23:01 |
| ochosi | nope | 23:02 |
| bluesabre | nope | 23:02 |
| ochosi | not that i know of | 23:02 |
| knome | so again if we want to do something like this, i'd just vote for creating that mailing list | 23:02 |
| bluesabre | certainly not the council server :D | 23:02 |
| knome | and sending the meeting logs to the council ML | 23:02 |
| knome | the ownership of a ML is easy to transfer when the council seats change | 23:02 |
| slickymaster | I think that the ability of those logs being available to future councilmembers is important, imo | 23:02 |
| knome | you think, in your opinion | 23:03 |
| knome | i'd never thought of that | 23:03 |
| knome | *trollface* | 23:03 |
| Unit193 | knome: Was just an idea as a way to archive them, though yeah it's a bit moot if you do setup the ML after all. | 23:03 |
| knome | i mean instead of doing the weird server setup, just do it on the ML - don't even need to use that for anything else | 23:04 |
| knome | there is no guarantee that the xubuntu devel server will always exist | 23:04 |
| bluesabre | yeah | 23:04 |
| knome | so at this point i see no reason to set up anything like this | 23:06 |
| knome | -- however, if a private discussion is needed, the council should reasses the situation | 23:06 |
| knome | +s | 23:06 |
| knome | ok, i think that's clear now :P | 23:07 |
| knome | anything else on this subject? | 23:07 |
| ochosi | nope | 23:08 |
| ochosi | i think this is fine | 23:08 |
| knome | #topic Blog article about the council | 23:08 |
| knome | without further ado, we have one under draft at http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-council-article | 23:09 |
| knome | we probably want "something personal" there too about the council members | 23:09 |
| bluesabre | I can agree with that | 23:11 |
| bluesabre | I'm also for having this in general for our team for anybody that wants to put their name on the site or wiki | 23:12 |
| knome | there have been talks about an "introducing the xubuntu team" article series for ever... | 23:12 |
| knome | so anyway, we can likely continue working on that article outside of the official meeting | 23:13 |
| knome | does anybody have any ideas what we should/could have there? | 23:14 |
| ochosi | to me the structure and content looks fine | 23:15 |
| ochosi | we can finalize this outside the meeting | 23:15 |
| knome | oki | 23:15 |
| knome | anything else? | 23:16 |
| ochosi | nope, fine by me | 23:16 |
| bluesabre | I think we're good with that | 23:16 |
| knome | so anything else on anything else? | 23:17 |
| knome | does the general public have any questions for the council? | 23:18 |
| knome | :P | 23:18 |
| bluesabre | I don't think so... I can imagine that our activity (as a single acting body) will be incredibly rare | 23:18 |
| bluesabre | Any questions can be directed to the mailing list and added to the Meetings discussion to be picked up as we go | 23:22 |
| knome | yes | 23:22 |
| knome | thanks | 23:22 |
| knome | #endmeeting | 23:22 |
| meetingology | Meeting ended Wed Nov 23 23:22:24 2016 UTC. | 23:22 |
| meetingology | Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2016/xubuntu-devel.2016-11-23-22.33.moin.txt | 23:22 |
| bluesabre | woo | 23:23 |
| ochosi | cool, thanks bluesabre and knome | 23:23 |
| bluesabre | thanks knome | 23:23 |
| bluesabre | thanks ochosi | 23:23 |
| bluesabre | thanks lurkers | 23:23 |
| knome | thanks sean, simon | 23:23 |
| Unit193 | Thanks XPC. | 23:23 |
| knome | and the bots | 23:23 |
| bluesabre | peanut gallery, you guys are important too | 23:23 |
| Unit193 | \o/ | 23:23 |
| * genii sweeps up all the crumpled balls of paper, and cleans the coffee machine | 23:31 | |
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