| ducasse | hi all | 08:20 |
|---|---|---|
| daftykins | good morning \o | 08:30 |
| ducasse | hiya daftykins - how are you today? | 08:31 |
| ducasse | "where do you want to go today?" | 08:31 |
| daftykins | Microsoft :O | 08:31 |
| daftykins | not bad here thanks, i watched 'The BFG' earlier - it was great :D | 08:32 |
| daftykins | most British folk of my gen grew up reading Roald Dahl novels :> | 08:32 |
| daftykins | how be thee? | 08:32 |
| ducasse | saw that at the cinema with my nephew - he loved it :) | 08:32 |
| ducasse | i grew up reading roald dahl myself. i'm fine, thanks, drinking tea and taking it easy. | 08:33 |
| daftykins | \o/ | 08:33 |
| daftykins | buttered scones and coffee here :D | 08:33 |
| ducasse | sounds good :) plans for the day? | 08:35 |
| daftykins | i've been looking up options for wall mounting that expensive new TV, plus dealing with the old | 08:36 |
| daftykins | so may pop up there later | 08:36 |
| ducasse | ah, how big is the new one? | 08:37 |
| daftykins | 65" using a 300x200 VESA mount - whilst the current one uses some annoying Pioneer own bracket | 08:37 |
| ducasse | nice. i wish all tv's/monitors could use vesa mounts... | 08:39 |
| daftykins | even when they do, they keep changing size XD | 08:39 |
| daftykins | oh i need to return some shoes to amazon too, as they sent me the wrong ones | 08:40 |
| ducasse | i'm going to look online for a wider desk, kind of want a third screen. | 08:41 |
| daftykins | :D | 08:43 |
| ducasse | someime today i'm also going to decide whether or not to buy that receiver, need to check a few other options first. | 08:44 |
| daftykins | ah exciting times! | 08:45 |
| daftykins | i wonder if it's worth me popping in a shop or two to look at deals going on | 08:46 |
| daftykins | not really anything i want right now though :) | 08:46 |
| ducasse | there's always stuff i _want_, but little i actually _need_... | 08:46 |
| daftykins | :D | 08:47 |
| ducasse | seems like there's still deals going on here, just after a brief look online... | 08:50 |
| daftykins | ah har | 08:51 |
| daftykins | yeah cyber monday now ;) | 08:51 |
| ducasse | aha, ic. can't find anything very interesting, though. | 08:55 |
| daftykins | seems to be a 5 bluray for £30 deal going on | 08:57 |
| daftykins | not really my scene... | 08:59 |
| ducasse | me neither. found an ok'ish tv, but the one i have is still functional. | 09:00 |
| ducasse | besides, i don't need uhd. | 09:01 |
| daftykins | you have to spend a fair chunk to get a 10-bit panel in one, the budget ones use an 8-bit so HDR is going to suffer | 09:01 |
| daftykins | i was tempted but yeah, maybe in the new year - or later still | 09:01 |
| daftykins | CES is January so maybe 2017 models will reinvent the wheel ;) | 09:01 |
| ducasse | :) did you see the zen naming style? | 09:02 |
| daftykins | ooh no as in AMD CPUs have been announced? | 09:03 |
| ducasse | sr3, sr5, sr7. wonder where they got that idea. | 09:03 |
| daftykins | wowzer | 09:03 |
| daftykins | hmm January 17th rumour too | 09:05 |
| ducasse | i really hope zen will be good, but i'm not holding my breath. they can't keep this up forever. | 09:06 |
| daftykins | indeed | 09:07 |
| ducasse | how long has it been since they made something decent? 7-8-9 years or so? | 09:07 |
| daftykins | especially after all the talk about the RX 480 and it ended up being yawn | 09:08 |
| ducasse | i hear people complaining about the performance of their latest gpu models all the time, but i'm not familiar with them. | 09:09 |
| daftykins | hmm can't imagine what that's about | 09:09 |
| daftykins | my nvidia 1070 is lovely :D | 09:09 |
| ducasse | i can imagine :) | 09:10 |
| ducasse | how many outputs does it have? | 09:10 |
| daftykins | now it's winter i don't even think the fans spin under game load | 09:10 |
| daftykins | 3 x DP, 1 x HDMI and 1 x DVI | 09:11 |
| ducasse | wow. can it use all at once? | 09:11 |
| daftykins | 4 at once apparently | 09:14 |
| ducasse | still good, most are limited to 3. | 09:14 |
| daftykins | yeah although there's displayport daisy chaining | 09:15 |
| daftykins | only seems to be on premium displays though | 09:15 |
| ducasse | i've noticed, you need to spend a little to get that. | 09:18 |
| daftykins | my ol' 1920x1200 displays will keep going for ages probably :) even have DP input | 09:18 |
| daftykins | haven't even used the office in a bit since i brought the PC downstairs to try out on the TV | 09:20 |
| daftykins | oof 20 past already, i best go do something :D | 09:20 |
| ducasse | ok, have a nice day! | 09:20 |
| ducasse | ttyl | 09:20 |
| daftykins | and you :) \o | 09:21 |
| daftykins | p.s. http://go.linuxfoundation.org/cyber-monday-2016 hmm | 09:21 |
| ducasse | hmm... | 09:22 |
| OerHeks | not bad pricing .. | 11:54 |
| ducasse | not at all... AND you get a t-shirt! :D | 11:56 |
| OerHeks | ... yay | 11:56 |
| BluesKaj | Hiyas all | 13:27 |
| ducasse | hi, how are you BluesKaj? | 13:28 |
| BluesKaj | hi ducasse, ok here, and you? | 13:35 |
| ducasse | good thanks, playing with arch in a chroot. the installation is *ridiculously* labor-intensive... | 13:36 |
| BluesKaj | yup, installed arch as few yrs ago, but I was disappointed in the OS , it was pretty ordinary for all the work needed to install, anticlimactic comes to mind | 13:44 |
| ducasse | hehe :) i'm just trying it out in search of something for my desktop, and it's a more attractive proposition than gentoo for example. | 13:54 |
| ducasse | in the end i'll probably stick to ubuntu, but it's interesting to look at how other distros do things from time to time. | 13:55 |
| BluesKaj | I'm thinking about sparky linux for fun, seems like an interesting OS with the Deepin desktop | 14:06 |
| BluesKaj | I'm not a gnome/unity or even mate fan and I'm tired of the restrictions plasma5 has put on KDE...I'd like to explore something new | 14:08 |
| BluesKaj | I'll stick with yakkety as my main OS of course | 14:09 |
| ducasse | i really wish there were as meny things available through ppas as through the aur, there's a lot of stuff i need to build myself now. that's mainly the reason i'm looking at arch for the desktop. | 14:12 |
| === nicomach1s is now known as nicomachus | ||
| === JanC_ is now known as JanC | ||
| ducasse | Bashing-om: hiya Bashing-om - good morning to you :) | 20:23 |
| Bashing-om | ducasse: And A fine day it is .. Hope your's goes as well . | 20:24 |
| ducasse | Bashing-om: yup, been playing with arch today, setting it up on my desktop as a test. need to play with new toys now and then :) | 20:26 |
| Bashing-om | ducasse: welp, will get a new perspective on things, huh .. Change can be good . Nawwww .. I am old and set in my ways . I *like* it steady; LOL | 20:29 |
| ducasse | Bashing-om: for 99.999% of things i use computers for, i want something that's quick to get going and just works™ - ubuntu is great for that. for this machine, though, i need a lot of personal customization etc, so it's worth a look. worst case, i drop it but have learned something new. | 20:31 |
| Bashing-om | Well. You know my takes on fast and easy . I am fortunate in my needs that thus far the software repo meets all . | 20:34 |
| ducasse | me too, so i might end up just compiling the rest in a container on ubuntu or somthing, right now i'm really just evaluating options. as i said, at least i will learn something :) | 20:37 |
| ducasse | btw; bought the humble bundle unix books bundle today, lots of goodies there. | 20:37 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | i was merely saying that "supported flavors are those flavors which are supported" is circular reasoning. | 20:40 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | the reason i said this is because the class "Supported flavors" is defined in terms of itself. | 20:40 |
| tgm4883 | NoImNotNineVolt: Yea I suppose that would be circular, but where does it say that? | 20:42 |
| tgm4883 | !ubuntu | 20:42 |
| ubot5` | Ubuntu is a complete Linux-based operating system, freely available with both community and professional support. It is developed by a large community and we invite you to participate too! - Also see http://www.ubuntu.com | 20:42 |
| tgm4883 | !flavors | 20:42 |
| ubot5` | Recognized Ubuntu flavors build on Ubuntu and provide a different user experience out of the box. They are supported both in #ubuntu and in their flavor channel. The current list is: !Edubuntu, !Ubuntu-GNOME, !Kubuntu, Ubuntu !Kylin, !Lubuntu, !Mythbuntu, Ubuntu !Studio, !Xubuntu, and Ubuntu !MATE | 20:42 |
| popey | There's no circular logic there. It just lists what's supported | 20:42 |
| tgm4883 | NoImNotNineVolt: unless someone else said that, I don't see what you quoted anywhere | 20:42 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | 20:34 < NoImNotNineVolt> so then it's not accurate that only ubuntu is supported here? | 20:43 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | 20:34 < nicomachus> NoImNotNineVolt: ubuntu and supported flavors. | 20:43 |
| popey | I think you're being needlessly nit-picky | 20:43 |
| tgm4883 | wow | 20:43 |
| tgm4883 | popey: +1 | 20:43 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | to rephrase with context, nicomachus was claiming that the supported flavors of ubuntu are "supported flavors". | 20:43 |
| popey | they probably meant "valid flavours" | 20:43 |
| popey | this is quite possibly the best waste of time discussion I've had today. Congratulations. | 20:44 |
| tgm4883 | NoImNotNineVolt: also, that's out of context | 20:44 |
| popey | (not everyone has En-US or En-GB as their first language) | 20:44 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | perhaps i'm mistaken, then. | 20:44 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | indeed, english isn't my first language either. | 20:44 |
| tgm4883 | Since the previous thing that nicomachus said was the query for ubottu to state the suported flavors | 20:45 |
| popey | technicall you could use "supported flavours" in two ways | 20:45 |
| popey | 1) supported in #ubuntu (the context the bot used) | 20:45 |
| popey | 2) supported by canonical (in that they are official flavours) | 20:45 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | i wasn't aware of any distinction there. | 20:46 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | is there one? | 20:46 |
| popey | so saying "ubuntu and supported flavours (definition 2) are supported (definition 1) in #ubuntu" :) | 20:46 |
| popey | sure | 20:46 |
| popey | mint is not a supported flavour | 20:46 |
| popey | nor elementary | 20:46 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | by the channel or by canonical? | 20:46 |
| popey | but Ubuntu MATE and Kubuntu are, because they're built using software from the Ubuntu archive only. | 20:46 |
| popey | by both | 20:47 |
| popey | one begats the other | 20:47 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | ... | 20:47 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | let me rephrase my question. | 20:47 |
| tgm4883 | to rephrase what nicomachus said, "The supported flavors are ubuntu, kubuntu, edubuntu <lists all>" NoImNotNineVolt: 'So then not only Ubuntu is supported here' nicomachus "Ubuntu and supported flavors are supported here". It seems obvious that the previous list of supported flavors doesn't need repeating a second time in < 5 minutes | 20:47 |
| popey | mine is not supported by canonical, and thus is not supported by #ubuntu | 20:47 |
| popey | *mint | 20:47 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | i wasn't aware of any distinction between the two classes you noted. are their elements that belong to one set and not the other? | 20:47 |
| Bashing-om | ducasse: Now If I were real die-hard and really wanted it fast(er) .. there is LFS . Nothing can replace a made-from-scratch, compile-your-own kernel . | 20:47 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | (note: things which belong to neither set do not satisfy the requirements stated) | 20:47 |
| popey | no | 20:47 |
| popey | however | 20:47 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | so there is no practical distinction? | 20:48 |
| popey | there are flavours which aren't _well_ supported | 20:48 |
| popey | (in #ubuntu) | 20:48 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | fair enough. | 20:48 |
| popey | so we throw users at flavour specific channels | 20:48 |
| popey | e.g. kubuntu, ubuntu server | 20:48 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | also, while i'm here, i'd say that "derivative distribution" is a generally more precise than "flavor" | 20:48 |
| popey | No | 20:48 |
| popey | Incorrect | 20:48 |
| tgm4883 | popey: well if that's the definition, there is a 3rd level of 'supported' | 20:48 |
| popey | Flavour is a very specific term | 20:48 |
| popey | Derivative distro is another specific term | 20:48 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | indeed, maybe that's where i'm getting confused. | 20:48 |
| popey | they have different meanings | 20:48 |
| tgm4883 | 3) supported by canonical, via a support contract (ubuntu advantage) | 20:49 |
| \9 | derivative distro is something that's based on ubuntu | 20:49 |
| \9 | not necessarily supported | 20:49 |
| popey | exactly, like mint or elementary | 20:49 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | are flavors necessarily supported? | 20:49 |
| popey | flavour = built from the archive | 20:49 |
| popey | derivative = might not be | 20:49 |
| popey | !flavor | 20:49 |
| ubot5` | Recognized Ubuntu flavors build on Ubuntu and provide a different user experience out of the box. They are supported both in #ubuntu and in their flavor channel. The current list is: !Edubuntu, !Ubuntu-GNOME, !Kubuntu, Ubuntu !Kylin, !Lubuntu, !Mythbuntu, Ubuntu !Studio, !Xubuntu, and Ubuntu !MATE | 20:49 |
| tgm4883 | flavors are supported in #ubuntu | 20:49 |
| tgm4883 | and their own channels too | 20:49 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | so an 'unsupported flavor' is inherently contradictory? | 20:50 |
| popey | yes | 20:50 |
| popey | there is no such thing | 20:50 |
| \9 | well you could build your own flavor.. that's not going to be supported | 20:50 |
| popey | no | 20:50 |
| \9 | and wasn't mythbuntu dropped? | 20:50 |
| popey | you could build a remix | 20:50 |
| tgm4883 | \9: no you can't | 20:50 |
| popey | or a derivative | 20:50 |
| popey | but it wouldn't be a flavour until blessed by the tech board | 20:50 |
| \9 | ah right | 20:50 |
| \9 | so it'll be a derivative even though it only uses the ubuntu core | 20:50 |
| tgm4883 | flavor means it was blessed by tech board and built on canonical hardware | 20:50 |
| popey | yes | 20:51 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | coming from a non-ubuntu background, i must admit that i wasn't aware of this usage of 'flavor'. | 20:51 |
| tgm4883 | mythbuntu still exists until 2019 or 2021 | 20:51 |
| tgm4883 | I'd have to verify | 20:51 |
| tgm4883 | AFAIK | 20:51 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | previously, i had only heard it used in a sense to distinguish different families of distributions. | 20:51 |
| \9 | mythbuntu appears to not have seen a 16.10 release | 20:52 |
| \9 | 16.04 seems to be last | 20:52 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | the perils of noun overloading :P | 20:52 |
| popey | \9: tgm4883 works on it :) | 20:52 |
| tgm4883 | \9: mythbuntu hasn't done non-LTS releases since 14.04 | 20:52 |
| tgm4883 | or possibly 12.04 | 20:52 |
| tgm4883 | I'd have to look back | 20:52 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | regardless, thanks for the clarification, and apologies for the pedantry. | 20:52 |
| popey | hehe | 20:52 |
| popey | np | 20:52 |
| popey | fun times | 20:52 |
| NoImNotNineVolt | in my experience, the devil is in the details :P | 20:52 |
| popey | sorry for being grouchy | 20:52 |
| \9 | ah right | 20:53 |
| tgm4883 | popey: blame the mate guys for being grouchy, that's what I do ;) | 20:53 |
| \9 | it indeed hasn't | 20:53 |
| ducasse | tgm4883: did you get any better performance out of the amd driver thingy? | 20:56 |
| tgm4883 | ducasse! | 20:56 |
| ducasse | \o | 20:56 |
| tgm4883 | ducasse: not really, but kinda. I'm getting worse performance in Dying Light, but I'm getting decent performance when I run through benchmarks | 20:57 |
| tgm4883 | I've reverted back to mesa 12 and tried AMDGPU and AMDGPU-PRO | 20:57 |
| tgm4883 | and by worse performance, I've turned all the graphics settings all the way down and I'm getting about 25FPS | 20:58 |
| ducasse | odd. did you try the amd forums? | 20:59 |
| tgm4883 | Not yet, I finished setting up GPU passthrough on my old card and was looking for someone else with DL to test | 21:01 |
| ducasse | right. i don't really do gaming anymore, i'm afraid. personally i think amd retired fglrx a bit too early... | 21:02 |
| ducasse | a lot of the people with amd cards who come into #ubuntu report they had decent performance with fglrx, now they get bad performance or only radeon works at all... | 21:04 |
| tgm4883 | Yea, unfortunately, I don't think this card was ever supported on fglrx | 21:07 |
| ducasse | no, but it might have been easier to add that support and get good performance than start from scratch with amdgpu. but they might not have had resources to do both, i guess. | 21:09 |
| tgm4883 | ducasse: yea I see what you're saying, there should have been a transition period | 21:12 |
| ducasse | i think that would have been better for users, but linux users are probably such a small part of their customer base there are strict limits on resources for driver development. | 21:14 |
| ducasse | Bashing-om: i was actually considering gentoo and compiling everything, but thought that would be too time-consuming. this machine is a 4ghz i7 with 32gb ram and all ssd's, but still... | 21:31 |
| dax | "it might have been easier to add that support and get good performance than start from scratch with amdgpu" => fglrx was an absolute mess from both a user and developer side, it would not have been easier | 21:32 |
| dax | "linux users are probably such a small part of their customer base there are strict limits on resources for driver development" => i track git HEAD on the repository they're doing amdgpu development in. they're doing quite a lot of excellent work on it | 21:33 |
| Bashing-om | ducasse: One thing for sure, with specs like that, conserving resources is not a high priority ( trash-80 !) - lots of elbow room . | 21:34 |
| dax | I have an AMD RX480. With DAL enabled, I get equivalent performance to Windows. | 21:34 |
| dax | and that's on amdgpu, not amdgpu-pro | 21:34 |
| dax | the main blocker right now is getting DAL into mainline Linux, which is proving to be rather Fun | 21:34 |
| ducasse | dal? | 21:34 |
| dax | Display Abstraction Layer. It's used for HDMI audio on Polaris, HDMI 2.0 in general, and future GPU compat in general. | 21:35 |
| ducasse | ic, thanks. | 21:36 |
| dax | but yeah, #radeon on freenode, amd-gfx@ on the FDO listserver, and https://cgit.freedesktop.org/~agd5f/linux/ for actual code | 21:37 |
| tgm4883 | dax: 16.10? | 21:37 |
| dax | tgm4883: no, gentoo for this. significantly easier to get mesa and friends to the latest version | 21:37 |
| dax | probably doable on ubuntu though, i didn't look too hard | 21:38 |
| tgm4883 | ah | 21:38 |
| tgm4883 | dax: there's a PPA someone has with mesa 13, but it didn't provide much better results for me | 21:38 |
| tgm4883 | so I'm probably missing something | 21:38 |
| dax | probably kernel from that git link above, if you have the rest of the stack up to date | 21:39 |
| dax | as far as I can tell all the DAL work is on amd-staging-4.7 right now, which is a bit unfortunately not-new, but i need HDMI audio so | 21:39 |
| tgm4883 | dax: ah probably, i was just running the 4.8 kernel in 16.10 | 21:40 |
| dax | yeah, none of DAL is in mainline yet | 21:41 |
| dax | which annoys me to no end, but it's a whole heap of code so i'm not really surprised | 21:42 |
| ducasse | Bashing-om: no, not really. i might still try gentoo on this machine, it has a spare ssd for things like that. | 21:46 |
| ducasse | Bashing-om: i better get some sleep, you keep up the good work! | 21:47 |
| Bashing-om | ducasse: K; Thanks, sleep well . instead of 'sugar-plums' dancing through the head .,. well it be OSs :) | 21:51 |
| ducasse | Bashing-om: i'll be counting distros to get to sleep :) | 21:51 |
| Bashing-om | har ! | 21:52 |
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