ducassehi all08:20
daftykinsgood morning \o08:30
ducassehiya daftykins - how are you today?08:31
ducasse"where do you want to go today?"08:31
daftykinsMicrosoft :O08:31
daftykinsnot bad here thanks, i watched 'The BFG' earlier - it was great :D08:32
daftykinsmost British folk of my gen grew up reading Roald Dahl novels :>08:32
daftykinshow be thee?08:32
ducassesaw that at the cinema with my nephew - he loved it :)08:32
ducassei grew up reading roald dahl myself. i'm fine, thanks, drinking tea and taking it easy.08:33
daftykinsbuttered scones and coffee here :D08:33
ducassesounds good :) plans for the day?08:35
daftykinsi've been looking up options for wall mounting that expensive new TV, plus dealing with the old08:36
daftykinsso may pop up there later08:36
ducasseah, how big is the new one?08:37
daftykins65" using a 300x200 VESA mount - whilst the current one uses some annoying Pioneer own bracket08:37
ducassenice. i wish all tv's/monitors could use vesa mounts...08:39
daftykinseven when they do, they keep changing size XD08:39
daftykinsoh i need to return some shoes to amazon too, as they sent me the wrong ones08:40
ducassei'm going to look online for a wider desk, kind of want a third screen.08:41
ducassesomeime today i'm also going to decide whether or not to buy that receiver, need to check a few other options first.08:44
daftykinsah exciting times!08:45
daftykinsi wonder if it's worth me popping in a shop or two to look at deals going on08:46
daftykinsnot really anything i want right now though :)08:46
ducassethere's always stuff i _want_, but little i actually _need_...08:46
ducasseseems like there's still deals going on here, just after a brief look online...08:50
daftykinsah har08:51
daftykinsyeah cyber monday now ;)08:51
ducasseaha, ic. can't find anything very interesting, though.08:55
daftykinsseems to be a 5 bluray for £30 deal going on08:57
daftykinsnot really my scene...08:59
ducasseme neither. found an ok'ish tv, but the one i have is still functional.09:00
ducassebesides, i don't need uhd.09:01
daftykinsyou have to spend a fair chunk to get a 10-bit panel in one, the budget ones use an 8-bit so HDR is going to suffer09:01
daftykinsi was tempted but yeah, maybe in the new year - or later still09:01
daftykinsCES is January so maybe 2017 models will reinvent the wheel ;)09:01
ducasse:) did you see the zen naming style?09:02
daftykinsooh no as in AMD CPUs have been announced?09:03
ducassesr3, sr5, sr7. wonder where they got that idea.09:03
daftykinshmm January 17th rumour too09:05
ducassei really hope zen will be good, but i'm not holding my breath. they can't keep this up forever.09:06
ducassehow long has it been since they made something decent? 7-8-9 years or so?09:07
daftykinsespecially after all the talk about the RX 480 and it ended up being yawn09:08
ducassei hear people complaining about the performance of their latest gpu models all the time, but i'm not familiar with them.09:09
daftykinshmm can't imagine what that's about09:09
daftykinsmy nvidia 1070 is lovely :D09:09
ducassei can imagine :)09:10
ducassehow many outputs does it have?09:10
daftykinsnow it's winter i don't even think the fans spin under game load09:10
daftykins3 x DP, 1 x HDMI and 1 x DVI09:11
ducassewow. can it use all at once?09:11
daftykins4 at once apparently09:14
ducassestill good, most are limited to 3.09:14
daftykinsyeah although there's displayport daisy chaining09:15
daftykinsonly seems to be on premium displays though09:15
ducassei've noticed, you need to spend a little to get that.09:18
daftykinsmy ol' 1920x1200 displays will keep going for ages probably :) even have DP input09:18
daftykinshaven't even used the office in a bit since i brought the PC downstairs to try out on the TV09:20
daftykinsoof 20 past already, i best go do something :D09:20
ducasseok, have a nice day!09:20
daftykinsand you :) \o09:21
daftykinsp.s. http://go.linuxfoundation.org/cyber-monday-2016 hmm09:21
OerHeksnot bad pricing ..11:54
ducassenot at all... AND you get a t-shirt! :D11:56
OerHeks... yay11:56
BluesKajHiyas all13:27
ducassehi, how are you BluesKaj?13:28
BluesKajhi ducasse, ok here, and you?13:35
ducassegood thanks, playing with arch in a chroot. the installation is *ridiculously* labor-intensive...13:36
BluesKajyup, installed arch as few yrs ago, but I was disappointed in the OS , it was pretty ordinary for all the work needed to install, anticlimactic comes to mind13:44
ducassehehe :) i'm just trying it out in search of something for my desktop, and it's a more attractive proposition than gentoo for example.13:54
ducassein the end i'll probably stick to ubuntu, but it's interesting to look at how other distros do things from time to time.13:55
BluesKajI'm thinking about sparky linux for fun, seems like an interesting OS with the Deepin desktop14:06
BluesKajI'm not a gnome/unity or even mate fan and I'm tired of the restrictions plasma5 has put on KDE...I'd like to explore something new14:08
BluesKajI'll stick with yakkety as my main OS of course14:09
ducassei really wish there were as meny things available through ppas as through the aur, there's a lot of stuff i need to build myself now. that's mainly the reason i'm looking at arch for the desktop.14:12
=== nicomach1s is now known as nicomachus
=== JanC_ is now known as JanC
ducasseBashing-om: hiya Bashing-om - good morning to you :)20:23
Bashing-omducasse: And A fine day it is .. Hope your's goes as well .20:24
ducasseBashing-om: yup, been playing with arch today, setting it up on my desktop as a test. need to play with new toys now and then :)20:26
Bashing-omducasse: welp, will get a new perspective on things, huh .. Change can be good . Nawwww .. I am old and set in my ways . I *like* it steady; LOL20:29
ducasseBashing-om: for 99.999% of things i use computers for, i want something that's quick to get going and just works™ - ubuntu is great for that. for this machine, though, i need a lot of personal customization etc, so it's worth a look. worst case, i drop it but have learned something new.20:31
Bashing-omWell. You know my takes on fast and easy . I am fortunate in my needs that thus far the software repo meets all .20:34
ducasseme too, so i might end up just compiling the rest in a container on ubuntu or somthing, right now i'm really just evaluating options. as i said, at least i will learn something :)20:37
ducassebtw; bought the humble bundle unix books bundle today, lots of goodies there.20:37
NoImNotNineVolti was merely saying that "supported flavors are those flavors which are supported" is circular reasoning.20:40
NoImNotNineVoltthe reason i said this is because the class "Supported flavors" is defined in terms of itself.20:40
tgm4883NoImNotNineVolt: Yea I suppose that would be circular, but where does it say that?20:42
ubot5`Ubuntu is a complete Linux-based operating system, freely available with both community and professional support. It is developed by a large community and we invite you to participate too! - Also see http://www.ubuntu.com20:42
ubot5`Recognized Ubuntu flavors build on Ubuntu and provide a different user experience out of the box. They are supported both in #ubuntu and in their flavor channel. The current list is: !Edubuntu, !Ubuntu-GNOME, !Kubuntu, Ubuntu !Kylin, !Lubuntu, !Mythbuntu, Ubuntu !Studio, !Xubuntu, and Ubuntu !MATE20:42
popeyThere's no circular logic there. It just lists what's supported20:42
tgm4883NoImNotNineVolt: unless someone else said that, I don't see what you quoted anywhere20:42
NoImNotNineVolt20:34 < NoImNotNineVolt> so then it's not accurate that only ubuntu is  supported here?20:43
NoImNotNineVolt20:34 < nicomachus> NoImNotNineVolt: ubuntu and supported flavors.20:43
popeyI think you're being needlessly nit-picky20:43
tgm4883popey: +120:43
NoImNotNineVoltto rephrase with context, nicomachus was claiming that the supported flavors of ubuntu are "supported flavors".20:43
popeythey probably meant "valid flavours"20:43
popeythis is quite possibly the best waste of time discussion I've had today. Congratulations.20:44
tgm4883NoImNotNineVolt: also, that's out of context20:44
popey(not everyone has En-US or En-GB as their first language)20:44
NoImNotNineVoltperhaps i'm mistaken, then.20:44
NoImNotNineVoltindeed, english isn't my first language either.20:44
tgm4883Since the previous thing that nicomachus said was the query for ubottu to state the suported flavors20:45
popeytechnicall you could use "supported flavours" in two ways20:45
popey1) supported in #ubuntu (the context the bot used)20:45
popey2) supported by canonical (in that they are official flavours)20:45
NoImNotNineVolti wasn't aware of any distinction there.20:46
NoImNotNineVoltis there one?20:46
popeyso saying "ubuntu and supported flavours (definition 2) are supported (definition 1) in #ubuntu" :)20:46
popeymint is not a supported flavour20:46
popeynor elementary20:46
NoImNotNineVoltby the channel or by canonical?20:46
popeybut Ubuntu MATE and Kubuntu are, because they're built using software from the Ubuntu archive only.20:46
popeyby both20:47
popeyone begats the other20:47
NoImNotNineVoltlet me rephrase my question.20:47
tgm4883to rephrase what nicomachus said, "The supported flavors are ubuntu, kubuntu, edubuntu <lists all>" NoImNotNineVolt: 'So then not only Ubuntu is supported here'  nicomachus "Ubuntu and supported flavors are supported here".    It seems obvious that the previous list of supported flavors doesn't need repeating a second time in < 5 minutes20:47
popeymine is not supported by canonical, and thus is not supported by #ubuntu20:47
NoImNotNineVolti wasn't aware of any distinction between the two classes you noted. are their elements that belong to one set and not the other?20:47
Bashing-omducasse: Now If I were real die-hard and really wanted it fast(er) .. there is LFS . Nothing can replace a made-from-scratch, compile-your-own kernel .20:47
NoImNotNineVolt(note: things which belong to neither set do not satisfy the requirements stated)20:47
NoImNotNineVoltso there is no practical distinction?20:48
popeythere are flavours which aren't _well_ supported20:48
popey(in #ubuntu)20:48
NoImNotNineVoltfair enough.20:48
popeyso we throw users at flavour specific channels20:48
popeye.g. kubuntu, ubuntu server20:48
NoImNotNineVoltalso, while i'm here, i'd say that "derivative distribution" is a generally more precise than "flavor"20:48
tgm4883popey: well if that's the definition, there is a 3rd level of 'supported'20:48
popeyFlavour is a very specific term20:48
popeyDerivative distro is another specific term20:48
NoImNotNineVoltindeed, maybe that's where i'm getting confused.20:48
popeythey have different meanings20:48
tgm48833) supported by canonical, via a support contract (ubuntu advantage)20:49
\9derivative distro is something that's based on ubuntu20:49
\9not necessarily supported20:49
popeyexactly, like mint or elementary20:49
NoImNotNineVoltare flavors necessarily supported?20:49
popeyflavour = built from the archive20:49
popeyderivative = might not be20:49
ubot5`Recognized Ubuntu flavors build on Ubuntu and provide a different user experience out of the box. They are supported both in #ubuntu and in their flavor channel. The current list is: !Edubuntu, !Ubuntu-GNOME, !Kubuntu, Ubuntu !Kylin, !Lubuntu, !Mythbuntu, Ubuntu !Studio, !Xubuntu, and Ubuntu !MATE20:49
tgm4883flavors are supported in #ubuntu20:49
tgm4883and their own channels too20:49
NoImNotNineVoltso an 'unsupported flavor' is inherently contradictory?20:50
popeythere is no such thing20:50
\9well you could build your own flavor.. that's not going to be supported20:50
\9and wasn't mythbuntu dropped?20:50
popeyyou could build a remix20:50
tgm4883\9: no you can't20:50
popeyor a derivative20:50
popeybut it wouldn't be a flavour until blessed by the tech board20:50
\9ah right20:50
\9so it'll be a derivative even though it only uses the ubuntu core20:50
tgm4883flavor means it was blessed by tech board and built on canonical hardware20:50
NoImNotNineVoltcoming from a non-ubuntu background, i must admit that i wasn't aware of this usage of 'flavor'.20:51
tgm4883mythbuntu still exists until 2019 or 202120:51
tgm4883I'd have to verify20:51
NoImNotNineVoltpreviously, i had only heard it used in a sense to distinguish different families of distributions.20:51
\9mythbuntu appears to not have seen a 16.10 release20:52
\916.04 seems to be last20:52
NoImNotNineVoltthe perils of noun overloading :P20:52
popey\9: tgm4883 works on it :)20:52
tgm4883\9: mythbuntu hasn't done non-LTS releases since 14.0420:52
tgm4883or possibly 12.0420:52
tgm4883I'd have to look back20:52
NoImNotNineVoltregardless, thanks for the clarification, and apologies for the pedantry.20:52
popeyfun times20:52
NoImNotNineVoltin my experience, the devil is in the details :P20:52
popeysorry for being grouchy20:52
\9ah right20:53
tgm4883popey: blame the mate guys for being grouchy, that's what I do ;)20:53
\9it indeed hasn't20:53
ducassetgm4883: did you get any better performance out of the amd driver thingy?20:56
tgm4883ducasse: not really, but kinda. I'm getting worse performance in Dying Light, but I'm getting decent performance when I run through benchmarks20:57
tgm4883I've reverted back to mesa 12 and tried AMDGPU and AMDGPU-PRO20:57
tgm4883and by worse performance, I've turned all the graphics settings all the way down and I'm getting about 25FPS20:58
ducasseodd. did you try the amd forums?20:59
tgm4883Not yet, I finished setting up GPU passthrough on my old card and was looking for someone else with DL to test21:01
ducasseright. i don't really do gaming anymore, i'm afraid. personally i think amd retired fglrx a bit too early...21:02
ducassea lot of the people with amd cards who come into #ubuntu report they had decent performance with fglrx, now they get bad performance or only radeon works at all...21:04
tgm4883Yea, unfortunately, I don't think this card was ever supported on fglrx21:07
ducasseno, but it might have been easier to add that support and get good performance than start from scratch with amdgpu. but they might not have had resources to do both, i guess.21:09
tgm4883ducasse: yea I see what you're saying, there should have been a transition period21:12
ducassei think that would have been better for users, but linux users are probably such a small part of their customer base there are strict limits on resources for driver development.21:14
ducasseBashing-om: i was actually considering gentoo and compiling everything, but thought that would be too time-consuming. this machine is a 4ghz i7 with 32gb ram and all ssd's, but still...21:31
dax"it might have been easier to add that support and get good performance than start from scratch with amdgpu" => fglrx was an absolute mess from both a user and developer side, it would not have been easier21:32
dax"linux users are probably such a small part of their customer base there are strict limits on resources for driver development" => i track git HEAD on the repository they're doing amdgpu development in. they're doing quite a lot of excellent work on it21:33
Bashing-omducasse: One thing for sure, with specs like that,  conserving resources is not a high priority ( trash-80 !) - lots of elbow room .21:34
daxI have an AMD RX480. With DAL enabled, I get equivalent performance to Windows.21:34
daxand that's on amdgpu, not amdgpu-pro21:34
daxthe main blocker right now is getting DAL into mainline Linux, which is proving to be rather Fun21:34
daxDisplay Abstraction Layer. It's used for HDMI audio on Polaris, HDMI 2.0 in general, and future GPU compat in general.21:35
ducasseic, thanks.21:36
daxbut yeah, #radeon on freenode, amd-gfx@ on the FDO listserver, and https://cgit.freedesktop.org/~agd5f/linux/ for actual code21:37
tgm4883dax: 16.10?21:37
daxtgm4883: no, gentoo for this. significantly easier to get mesa and friends to the latest version21:37
daxprobably doable on ubuntu though, i didn't look too hard21:38
tgm4883dax: there's a PPA someone has with mesa 13, but it didn't provide much better results for me21:38
tgm4883so I'm probably missing something21:38
daxprobably kernel from that git link above, if you have the rest of the stack up to date21:39
daxas far as I can tell all the DAL work is on amd-staging-4.7 right now, which is a bit unfortunately not-new, but i need HDMI audio so21:39
tgm4883dax: ah probably, i was just running the 4.8 kernel in 16.1021:40
daxyeah, none of DAL is in mainline yet21:41
daxwhich annoys me to no end, but it's a whole heap of code so i'm not really surprised21:42
ducasseBashing-om: no, not really. i might still try gentoo on this machine, it has a spare ssd for things like that.21:46
ducasseBashing-om: i better get some sleep, you keep up the good work!21:47
Bashing-omducasse: K; Thanks, sleep well . instead of 'sugar-plums' dancing through the head .,. well it be OSs :)21:51
ducasseBashing-om: i'll be counting distros to get to sleep :)21:51
Bashing-omhar !21:52

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!