[09:48] <damo22> does ubuntustudio strip out pulseaudio yet?
[18:47] <sakrecoer> hey guys. looks like i will be late :/ still on this train, and i'm not sure my battery will last until 19UTC... worst case scenario i'll be reading the logs...
[18:48] <sakrecoer> gah... "guys"... have to drop that habit to call everyone and everything "guys"
[19:00] <sakrecoer> :) looks like many of us are here! 
[19:00] <sakrecoer> theoretically i have 30 more minutes of battery..
[19:01] <eylul> hi
[19:01] <sakrecoer> o/
[19:01] <sakrecoer> should we wait some minutes to see if cfhowlett makes it?
[19:02] <sakrecoer> OvenWerks, you arround?
[19:02] <eylul> 3 more minutes then start if everybody else is here. then if he comes in, he can join in. 
[19:03] <eylul> so while we are waiting. what are the items for today?
[19:03] <eylul> 1) website
[19:03] <eylul> 2) krita/godot packages (not a lot of stuff there this week) 
[19:03] <eylul> 3) status updates on other things? 
[19:04] <sakrecoer> sounds good! :)
[19:04] <sakrecoer> krytarik: you know how to operate meetingology ?
[19:04] <eylul> (also hi Rosco2!)
[19:04] <sakrecoer> meetingology | help
[19:04] <meetingology> sakrecoer: Error: "|" is not a valid command.
[19:05] <sakrecoer> meetingology help
[19:05] <meetingology> sakrecoer: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin. You may also want to use the 'list' command to list all available plugins and commands. 
[19:05] <sakrecoer> meetingology help topic
[19:05] <meetingology> sakrecoer: Error: There is no command "topic".
[19:06] <Rosco2> HI all
[19:06] <sakrecoer> o/ Rosco2 :)
[19:07] <sakrecoer> lets begin then...
[19:07] <sakrecoer> 1) website... it seems my poking in RT gave 0 effect...
[19:08] <eylul> ack
[19:08] <sakrecoer> my impression is that : either we make it funky like they do, or nothing will ever happen....
[19:09] <sakrecoer> i wanted to investigate in what other flavour is planning on using the community child theme, and coordinate a "bigger" poke...
[19:10] <sakrecoer> but.. i haven't been able to find th time necessary...
[19:11] <eylul> sakrecoer are you ok with continuing to take the initiative on that? 
[19:12] <sakrecoer> initiative on poking RT?
[19:13] <eylul> yeah and checking in with other distros...
[19:13] <eylul> :)
[19:14] <sakrecoer> i mean, i'm the least suited person to speak about wordpress issues...
[19:14]  * eylul looks at Krytarik
[19:14] <eylul> :D
[19:16] <krytarik> Honestly, I'm not sure what more we can do at this point - as I said in the last meeting, we need at least *some* sort of reaction from them on the ticket.
[19:16] <eylul> *nods*
[19:16] <Rosco2> ANyone have a link to the ticket?
[19:17] <eylul> rosco2: https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=29028
[19:19] <Rosco2> Thanks - no luck logging in
[19:19] <eylul> yeah.. I can't login either
[19:19] <eylul> login server hiccup?
[19:19] <Rosco2> Not that I could help - just trying to undrestand what we need
[19:20] <eylul> Rosco2: the wordpress install does something unusual with theme folders, in a way that theme dependencies break
[19:21] <Rosco2> Thanks
[19:21] <sakrecoer> i can poke around, not as regularily ias i used to, but sure
[19:21] <eylul> so either we adjust to their system, or ask them to follow how normal wordpress installs work. except sakrecoer emailed them twice on ticket about which route they prefer us to do.. 
[19:21] <eylul> and we have been waiting for an answer. :) 
[19:22] <eylul> I would still go with our last week's idea of if we don't hear back we just do one of the workarounds
[19:22] <eylul> like lets give it a bit more time but... like put a deadline on this. 
[19:22] <sakrecoer> eylul: yes at this point i think so too... but we risk having to do it over again when they decide to go standard... lol
[19:23] <eylul> if we do the path thing, it literally is 2 line of code
[19:23] <sakrecoer> whaat?
[19:23] <eylul> if we do the option krytarik was mentioning he preferred (and it works) it literally is changing a line on the css
[19:23] <eylul> if it breaks we can very quickly fix it
[19:23] <sakrecoer> that sounds perfect! at least for now!
[19:24] <sakrecoer> whats the catch? 
[19:24] <eylul> the catch is that if they change the system, it does break
[19:24] <eylul> until we fix it and submit the fix. 
[19:24] <eylul> that's pretty much the only catch
[19:25] <sakrecoer> haha... that is probably why they are reluctant to fix it in the first palce: many sites will go borked
[19:25] <eylul> possibly
[19:25] <eylul> so what deadline do we put on this? (I want us to have time for at least check-ins, especially since we have rosco2 here)
[19:25] <sakrecoer> hmm... so it does make a lot of sense to try steer up some coordinated movement...
[19:26] <sakrecoer> tuesday 13th december
[19:26] <sakrecoer> wait... i was thinking 3 weeks...
[19:26] <eylul> sakrecoer: frankly I think we are the only ones not using knome's default theme as it is. 
[19:26] <sakrecoer> 20th...
[19:27] <eylul> either we do 13th, or after christmas I'd say. 
[19:27] <sakrecoer> ok 13th
[19:27] <eylul> lets be realistic nobody will be answering tickets around holidays. as it should be ;)
[19:27] <sakrecoer> i thought we were using knome's theme...
[19:27] <sakrecoer> didn't we remove that plugin in the end?
[19:28] <eylul> we are making a child theme with changes to it. 
[19:28] <eylul> it has nothing to do with plugin
[19:28] <eylul> refer to my summary last week ;)
[19:28] <sakrecoer> ye... well.. i didn't say anything about not using knome's theme..
[19:28] <sakrecoer> *it didn't say anything about that
[19:28] <sakrecoer> anyways ok..
[19:29] <eylul> we are the only ones with a child theme from what I can tell, everybody else is using knome's theme's default settings
[19:29] <eylul> ok so Dec 13, then we move on. 
[19:29] <eylul> any other issues and discussions on website? 
[19:29] <krytarik> Move on to what exactly?
[19:30] <eylul> package, if ovenwerks is here anything he might be working on
[19:30] <eylul> we do have a new person who came to irc asking for tasks
[19:30] <eylul> anything rosco2 has been working off (also I do have a question for rosco2: can we add snap packages to the default iso?)
[19:31] <eylul> working on*
[19:31] <Rosco2> Been mainly working in Debian
[19:31] <Rosco2> SOft freeze coming 5th Dece
[19:32] <eylul> *nods*
[19:32] <Rosco2> I think we could produce snaps and add them to the store
[19:32] <Rosco2> How we get them on the ISO - I don't know
[19:33] <Rosco2> I was hoping to play with them some more when doing backports
[19:33] <eylul> *nods*
[19:33] <Rosco2> The demos I have seen don't deal with dependencies
[19:34] <eylul> well Krita already compiles it on snap
[19:34] <Rosco2> Need to dig into that area to understand how we would snap something like ardour
[19:34] <Rosco2> If upstream have already done it for us - great :-)
[19:34] <eylul> :D
[19:34] <eylul> yeah an ardour snap would definitely be interesting!
[19:35] <Rosco2> I will dig deepr at some point - just need more time
[19:36] <eylul> *nods* don't we all
[19:36] <eylul> :D
[19:36] <Rosco2> We need to triage some of the ubuntustudio- * package bugs
[19:36] <eylul> right
[19:36] <Rosco2> I went through the us-meta ones, there loads of out of date bugs
[19:37] <Rosco2> Then I plan to tidy up the default-settings package after we only half did the original plan last release
[19:39] <eylul> actually rosco2: do you think you can prioritize the default-settings package? (unless sakrecoer and krytarik disagrees)
[19:39] <eylul> I mean triaging bugs is probably something we can all do, but that one is harder to sort out
[19:40] <eylul> (maybe next week's meeting we can make a party of it, and go through bugs)
[19:40] <Rosco2> Yes - but I wanted to try and fix as many bugs as possible with one upload
[19:40] <eylul> ah
[19:41] <Rosco2> In any case I will try and prepare it before Christmas - probably after the 5th
[19:41] <eylul> please tell us what we can do to help?
[19:42] <Rosco2> Will do.
[19:42] <eylul> ok
[19:43] <eylul> thanks!
[19:43] <eylul> :)
[19:43] <Rosco2> Once I know :-) Need to relook at all the commits
[19:44] <eylul> *nods* fair enough. 
[19:45] <eylul> meanwhile I'll continue to slowly follow the trail of the debian queue to see what is holding krita package stuck there. its not QUITE what I expected to do when I volunteered to learn packaging but hey! not complaining
[19:46] <Rosco2> That one's fun - we have got into a bit of a mess
[19:46] <eylul> how so?
[19:47] <Rosco2> We don't get the package from Debian
[19:47] <Rosco2> There is an epoch in the version
[19:47] <eylul> yeah I did talk to the kubuntu team
[19:48] <Rosco2> And krita seems to be moving/has move from one source package to anoother
[19:49] <eylul> yeah
[19:49] <eylul> well I think the thing is krita had some dependencies from calligra before, but now that the project is becoming more independent, it makes sense to package it separately?
[19:50] <Rosco2> IS that what Debian are doing?
[19:50] <Rosco2> Ideal if they are
[19:50] <eylul> that's what QT/kde packaging team is doing
[19:51] <Rosco2> Excellent
[19:51] <eylul> but yeah krita has been developed more independently recently, they had 2 successful kickstarters
[19:51] <eylul> but yeah the package is stuck on new queue for 2 months. 
[19:52] <Rosco2> Aah - needs to be approved by the 5th or it is too late
[19:52] <eylul> *sighs* hey! if you know somebody you can nag as well?
[19:52] <Rosco2> Then we will be waiting until MArch or so
[19:53] <eylul> oh dear
[19:53] <Rosco2> 66 packages in new
[19:54] <eylul> Rosco2: if you have any contacts on debian who can help us it would be great. (if not, we have options: namely ubuntu repos, apparently, and I am still hopeful about getting snap into ISO: I mean ubuntu core must be doing it somehow)
[19:54] <Rosco2> Probably they all take the easy one first
[19:54] <eylul> *nods*
[19:54] <eylul> (also apparently we lost sakrecoer to the train)
[19:55] <Rosco2> :-)
[19:56] <eylul> I get that but at some point somebody needs to get the hard ones too. ;)
[19:56] <eylul> its not like this is some obscure package, its only one of the 3 most commonly used open source graphic software ;D
[19:56] <Rosco2> It depends what shape the copyrights & licenses are in
[19:57] <Rosco2> The bigger the package, the longer it takes to review
[19:57] <eylul> *nods*
[19:59] <eylul> rosco2: is this a time that works for you reasonably well?
[19:59] <Rosco2> Yeah - just about perfect
[20:00] <Rosco2> Krita is targeted for experimentaal as well
[20:00] <eylul> good. so if this works for everybody else as well, we might use this.
[20:00] <eylul> *nods*
[20:00] <eylul> how does that affect things?
[20:00] <Rosco2> SO it would require a manual sync from there once it is accepted into the archive
[20:00]  * eylul is asking more to learn
[20:00] <eylul> ah
[20:00] <OvenWerks> sorry just got here
[20:01] <eylul> hi OvenWerks
[20:01] <Rosco2> HI Len
[20:01] <eylul> we are about to wrap up but do you have any updates?
[20:01] <OvenWerks> just found out that cpu governor startu has changed
[20:01] <OvenWerks> *startup
[20:01] <eylul> oh??
[20:01] <eylul> how so? and link?
[20:02] <OvenWerks> and it is much easier to default to performance
[20:02] <OvenWerks> I would like to add a file to /etc/defaults/ to do that.
[20:03]  * eylul starts putting some of the things discussed into the whiteboard
[20:03] <Rosco2> Would that be part of us-control Len?
[20:03] <OvenWerks> I was just looking at the cpu freq file in /etc/init.d/ when I found it
[20:04] <OvenWerks> -default-settings I was thinking
[20:04] <Rosco2> OK - glad you said because we were thinking of dropping that package
[20:04] <OvenWerks> it seems running in performance all the time doesn't make much (if any) differemce to the cpu temp... and therefore battery use.
[20:04] <Rosco2> At the moment it only contains desktop settings
[20:05] <OvenWerks> no, unless someone has changed things it has some other system setup
[20:05] <OvenWerks> (swappiness for example)
[20:05] <Rosco2> OK - I will double check
[20:06] <OvenWerks> unless some of thesethings were broken out into another settings package.
[20:07] <Rosco2> possibly
[20:08] <Rosco2> I remember previous blueprints asking for changes to us-controls to do with audio preformance
[20:08] <Rosco2> I will dig
[20:09] <eylul> ok so wait
[20:09] <eylul> I never actually had a chance to ask this one clearly, are we planning to write controls from scratch
[20:09] <eylul> or modify what exists
[20:09] <Rosco2> I don't reaaly know - it was Kai that was looking into it
[20:10] <eylul> well
[20:10] <eylul> considering two of you are the ones who will likely do short term changes to it
[20:10] <eylul> what do you want to do
[20:10] <eylul> ?
[20:10] <Rosco2> Go with what's there of course :-)
[20:10] <eylul> I mean putting default file to set laptops to performance is already slightly scary move :)
[20:11] <OvenWerks> I have heard that performance helps video as well
[20:11] <eylul> performance helps everything
[20:11] <eylul> until you get a power outage
[20:11] <eylul> :D
[20:11] <eylul> (yes those things still happen :P)
[20:12] <OvenWerks> are you aware that in our kernel ondemand is no longer supported?
[20:12] <OvenWerks> They are using something else b y default now last I chanecked.
[20:12] <eylul> *nods*
[20:12] <OvenWerks> I have also heard that ondemand uses more battery than performance
[20:12] <eylul> its powersaving by default? (I think?)
[20:13] <OvenWerks> powersave sounds right.
[20:13] <eylul> *nods*
[20:13] <eylul> I am not against the idea of making performance default
[20:13] <eylul> it would be nice to have a way to switch it off as user preference through
[20:13] <OvenWerks> I have just done so on this laptop :)
[20:14] <eylul> and have people test it on beta to make sure the whole: no really it doesn't change the overheating much, is actually true for multiple people
[20:14] <OvenWerks> switching live takes a setroot appliaction
[20:14] <eylul> isn't us-controls already that through?
[20:14] <OvenWerks> or polkit setup
[20:15] <OvenWerks> I think it uses polkit for somethings, but doesn't run as root... I could be wrong
[20:16] <eylul> I see
[20:16] <Rosco2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/FeatureDefinitions/UbuntuStudioControls
[20:16] <OvenWerks> any new applications are _supposed_ to only goto root for what needs it not the whole application (like synaptic is wrong)
[20:16] <Rosco2> Was just reading the feature definition
[20:16] <eylul> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntustudio-z-development (adding stuff here)
[20:17] <OvenWerks> Ardour 5.5 should be out next month.
[20:18] <eylul> rosco2, ovenWerks: maybe at some point we should sit down and go over this so that we can actually start working on it?
[20:18] <eylul> I know there is at least 2 things I want to add to this: per application profiles (long term goal), and wacom settings. (short term goal)
[20:19] <Rosco2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xjadeo/+bug/1639409
[20:19] <eylul> well integrating existing wacom settings solution
[20:19] <Rosco2> Apparently that is currently blocking Ardour 5.4
[20:20] <OvenWerks> To me that is what -settings is for Adding settings that are for graphics/audio/video
[20:21] <OvenWerks> Ardour doesn't _have_ to have xjadeo, but it is one of the better ways of doing the job.
[20:21]  * eylul has totally missed it. *facepalm*
[20:22] <eylul> (btw I'll step out at half past)
[20:23] <OvenWerks> Part of the blender->ardour with xjdadeo workflow.
[20:24] <Rosco2> Apparently it is only one of the archive managers with super powers that can move xjadeo to universe
[20:24] <Rosco2> I looked to see if I can help - but no
[20:25] <Rosco2> Should keep an eye and ping over the next months though
[20:27] <OvenWerks> I do have a bash script that can go in /usr/sbin/ that changes cpu governor. I can update it to use performance/powersave rather that ondemand. But I will not have time to figure out -controls.
[20:27] <Rosco2> Ok - I will call it quits. Thnks eylul & OvenWerks 
[20:27] <OvenWerks> bye
[20:27] <eylul> thanks Rosco2
[20:28] <eylul> OvenWerks, anything else before I go and declare this meeting done?
[20:28] <eylul> :)
[20:30] <eylul> btw, just to clarify I am not against setting the default to performance. I do think we do need to keep an eye on betas for any issues with it through
[20:30] <eylul> (and at some point we need to start working on us-controls. I was hoping to do that after the package things.. but things got.. interesting)
[20:32] <OvenWerks> all I can think of right now.
[20:32] <eylul> ok
[20:32] <eylul> thanks for stopping by. also does our start time work for you?
[20:33] <OvenWerks> -controls should be kept in a language most people can work with... probably c++ with fltk would not be good.
[20:33] <eylul> heh. I thought there was some discussion of python
[20:33] <OvenWerks> the time should be fine. I just forgot.... and my wife called me to be with her not by the co mputer
[20:34] <eylul> ah
[20:34] <OvenWerks> -controls is in python right now, but I am even worse with python than perl
[20:34] <sakrecoer> no i havehey!
[20:34] <sakrecoer> haha
[20:34] <eylul> welcome back sakrecoer
[20:34] <eylul> :D
[20:34] <sakrecoer> yeah...
[20:34] <eylul> we figured we lost you at the train
[20:35] <eylul> Ovenwerks: one advantage of python is that you can make guis with it
[20:35] <eylul> which we can't with perl. 
[20:35] <eylul> I am happy to adjust to what you guys use through
[20:35] <OvenWerks> perl-tk?
[20:35] <OvenWerks> I think it can do gtk as well.
[20:35] <eylul> *blinks*
[20:35] <eylul> *blinks again*
[20:35] <OvenWerks> pythons standard GUI is TK based though.
[20:36] <eylul> *nods*
[20:36] <OvenWerks> But I am pretty sure -controls uses gtk.
[20:36] <eylul> I personally like QT aesthethic wise but as I said I am really happy to adjust to whatever you guys decide to use. 
[20:37] <eylul> a lot of new programmers learn python which is why I suggested that but *shrugs*
[20:37] <OvenWerks> I have not been able to get anything to work for me with qt so far... I may not be willing to put the time in.. I am learning avtk just now.
[20:38] <eylul> ah
[20:38] <eylul> yeah whatever we chose I'll have to learn gui side from scratch
[20:38] <OvenWerks> (based on NTK which is based on fltk
[20:38] <eylul> I know a few of these also have gui constructors on repos
[20:38] <eylul> so that we can build the guis visually
[20:38] <eylul> I think that should be a point in favor for less work to do
[20:39] <eylul> (in case there is something that doesn't come with a builder)
[20:39]  * eylul is really getting dated on this topic
[20:40] <eylul> ok
[20:40] <eylul> I really really need to go
[20:40] <eylul> and get back to art. but see you next week ovenwerks?
[20:40] <OvenWerks> Ok.
[20:41] <eylul> :)
[20:41] <eylul> --- meeting done ---
[20:42] <OvenWerks> o/
[20:46] <sakrecoer> \o
[20:47] <krytarik> o/
[20:47] <sakrecoer> \ohaj
[20:47] <krytarik> :D
[20:47] <sakrecoer> move on with what?
[20:48] <sakrecoer> i suppose toward publication. :)
[20:49]  * sakrecoer refers to 1) backlog