[15:24] <another_larsks> smoser, I'm curious how soon you think 0.7.9 might drop...I see that there are a ton of changes to the systemd units since 0.7.8, and thinking about carrying patches vs. just waiting a bit.
[18:42] <larsks> harlowja, systemd dependencies question:  if cloud-init-local.service is Before=NetworkManager, shouldn't it also be Before=networking.service?
[18:43] <larsks> And similarly, if cloud-init.service is After=networking.service, shouldn't it also be After=NetworkManager.service?
[18:43] <larsks> This may just be me being unfamiliar with the naming of ubuntu/debian systemd units...
[18:54] <harlowja> nrezinorn ^
[18:55] <harlowja> larsks there was dragons there that nrezinorn hopefully remembers
[18:56] <larsks> harlowja, because I need to set deps correctly on the redhat legacy "network.service" as well as NetworkManager, and want to be consistent...
[18:56] <harlowja> draggggggons
[18:56] <harlowja> lol
[19:00]  * harlowja poked nrezinorn internally, he should be able to answer
[19:01] <nrezinorn> all i remember is that on the newer cloud-init the systemd files were wrong for RHEL 7
[19:02] <mdorman_> doyou have the link to the bug or patch?  This was a while ago, i’ll have tp page this stuff back into my brain
[19:02] <nrezinorn> because its called network.service (rhel) vs networking.service (ubuntu)
[19:03] <nrezinorn> thats all i remember, and i think i just made a specific file for rhel builds, but i dont think any of that is merged back upstream yet
[19:03] <mdorman_> i think taht was the only difference, too
[19:04] <nrezinorn> once i fixed the rpm build for network.service things just worked - for my super limited testing that i did lol - other things have taken my time away
[19:05] <harlowja> larsks u trying to fix it for good i hope :-P
[19:05] <harlowja> never again!
[19:05] <harlowja> lol
[19:09] <larsks> nrezinorn, where are your fixes?
[19:10] <larsks> harlowja, I don't know.  Because rhel and ubuntu have different service names, we can't really have a single unit file.
[19:10] <larsks> I think unit files should be part of the packages, not part of the upstream code, but smoser and I disagree on that point.
[19:10] <harlowja> larsks right, we may need 2
[19:10] <harlowja> larsks prob disagree with me also :)
[19:11] <harlowja> i like it when code-bases can build themselves into packages
[19:11] <harlowja> if we have 2 unit files, doesn't seem to bad
[19:11] <larsks> harlowja, I think it's a terrible idea because it requires the upstream code maintainers to also be expert package maintainers for multiple distributions.
[19:11] <larsks> Or they end up being experts in one distribution, and everyone else has to carry a list of patches a mile long.
[19:11] <harlowja> sounds like package creation is to much a PITA then
[19:11] <harlowja> and if it requires a expert then its not done right :-P
[19:12] <harlowja> packaging software shouldn't require experts imho ;)
[19:12] <larsks> Which is why it should just be left to the package maintainers.
[19:12] <harlowja> (not in the 21st century)
[19:12] <larsks> Why make upstream developers worry about those things?
[19:12] <larsks> Let the upstream concentrate on quality code, rather than making sure they have the names of depdendencies correct.
[19:12] <harlowja> i get that POV
[19:13] <harlowja> it still feels like a messed up situation
[19:14] <larsks> I dunno.  I mean, ubuntu/debian/redhat/suse/fedora/alpine/etc...everyone has there own packaging system.  I'm not sure it's possible to get everyone to settle on a single set of package metadata.
[19:14] <larsks> ...until systemd introduces a packaging format, I guess.
[19:14] <harlowja> sounds like we need a package trump for president
[19:14] <harlowja> lol
[19:15] <nrezinorn> make packages great again!
[19:15] <larsks> So here's another idea...we remove *all* distribution specific dependencies out of the unit files, and those go into separate systemd drop-in files.  This lets the distro-specific stuff be managed without needing to duplicate the entire unit file(s).
[19:16] <harlowja> k
[19:17] <larsks> nrezinorn, you mentioned that you were working on the rpm packages...what did you end up with for service dependencies?  Are those rpms somewhere I can grab them and look?
[19:29] <nrezinorn> larsks: i last poked things 2 months ago- and i dont have anything to share .  let me see if i can drop a file somewhere you can grab...you can poke it yourself (if i remember where i did all this stuff)
[19:35] <nrezinorn> i cant find where i put the stuff i was doing lol, it may have been on a server that got wiped...so thats fun
[19:40] <larsks> nrezinorn, thanks for looking!
[19:41] <nrezinorn> i really only added the rhel files for systemd and editing some other thing, prob the makefile macros to feed in the rhel systemd files
[19:41] <nrezinorn> there was also other things not working right lol
[19:46] <nrezinorn> i looked under a few rocks, sorry i couldnt find it.
[19:56] <larsks> harlowja, debian packaging question: what part of the packages/debian/* files causes the systemd unit files from the systemd/ directory to get copied into the right place?
[19:56] <harlowja> eck, ask smoser not me :-P
[19:57] <larsks> Darn.  smoser seems to be afk today.  Or at least af irc.
[19:57] <nrezinorn> ill find it for you
[19:58] <harlowja> i don't do that debian stuff, ha
[19:59] <nrezinorn> https://git.launchpad.net/cloud-init/tree/packages/bddeb?id=166df605dc9864eb163007300db7a611feb309d6  something in that lol
[19:59] <nrezinorn> jsut trace it all the way down to where its copying the systemd/ folder i guess :)
[20:00] <nrezinorn> ah i see
[20:00] <nrezinorn> so the debian packager just takes ther tarball of the source
[20:00] <nrezinorn> so "it's just there"
[20:04] <larsks> nrezinorn, ugh, right, we've abused setup.py as a general installation tool.  Thanks.  I keep forgetting that.
[20:05] <nrezinorn> yeah im not a fan of that stuff lol
[20:06] <suro> @harlowja: around?
[20:08] <larsks> Ugh, so why does the spec file copy things in manually?  HEAD ASPLODE.
[20:48] <nrezinorn> rpm spec?
[20:48] <nrezinorn> it copies things becuase it has to be copied into the RPM BUILDROOT, thats how rpms work