[00:34] <OvenWerks> eylul: no worries I took as long answering. I think most of your concerns are minor. I am not sure what you mean by profile and how it is different from preset. I am not attached to one word or the other.
[00:34] <eylul> hey
[00:34] <eylul> profile and preset are same thing
[00:34] <eylul> :)
[00:34] <OvenWerks> eylul: by minor, I mean in general I don't care onbe way or the other
[00:34] <eylul> *nods*
[00:35] <OvenWerks> so changes are welcome.
[00:35] <eylul> :)
[00:35] <eylul> usability is something I care about :D
[00:35] <OvenWerks> Basically if a widget remains the same name and uses the same callback name they cam be changed quite easily
[00:36] <OvenWerks> my own sw is always easy to use ;)
[00:36] <eylul> I.. might need to shuffle it around a bit more than that
[00:37] <eylul> *sheepish smile* but I'll try to stick to what you have sent. (You did send a .glade file over email right? I wasn't dreaming that part)
[00:37]  * eylul has had interesting few days
[00:38] <OvenWerks> eylul: right now I am most interested on getting the behind the scenes how do I do this figgured out. for example I can change governor by opening the file in w and dropping the governor in, but with boost I have to pipe the value through tee to get it to work ??!!??
[00:38] <eylul> :D
[00:39] <OvenWerks> I seem to be getting email from the list hours later and out of order.
[00:39] <eylul> odd...
[00:39] <eylul> :/
[00:39] <eylul> is it possible your email is filtering them?
[00:40] <eylul> although this time I did have a small hiccup as well
[00:40] <OvenWerks> I don't filter anything. Maybe up stream, but they do eventually show up
[00:40] <eylul> I mean on server side. 
[00:40] <eylul> but ok
[00:42] <eylul> OvenWerks: I am off to sleep tonight but I will read this more carefully tomorrow, and send you the UI sketch. (it should be easier, now that I am not struggling with glade anymore)
[00:43] <OvenWerks> Ok, I think tabs are easier to do than popups
[00:43] <OvenWerks> I think a dropdown like you have could control the tabs if it would be better... and not show the tab labels
[00:44] <eylul> err
[00:45] <eylul> you mean control of the tabs?
[00:45] <OvenWerks> Having everything on one page will be too much.
[00:45] <OvenWerks> yes.
[00:45] <OvenWerks> Ardour uses buttons to control the tab with tabs turned off.
[00:45] <eylul> oh
[00:45] <OvenWerks> I personally like the tabs
[00:46] <eylul> so what it looks like to the user is that the content of the box changes from say: showing the status to editing it
[00:46] <eylul> although behind the scenes it is a secret tab switch?
[00:46] <OvenWerks> something like that. for switching from editor to perferences to mixer
[00:47] <eylul> I am not against the tabs, but I still think for editing and adding new presets pop-up might be less confusing, but let me see - wait
[00:47] <eylul> mixer?
[00:47] <OvenWerks> Ardour has a mixer yes.
[00:47] <OvenWerks> It seems the question is what is in the tabs.
[00:47] <eylul> oh you are talking about ardour
[00:48] <OvenWerks> was
[00:48] <eylul> I agree with having different settings on different tabs and not having a giant wall of of setups and drop downs. 
[00:49] <eylul> I am a bit less sure in terms of if we can fit the editing of presets into chosing a preset to use
[00:49] <eylul> I'll really say preset editing should be its own window
[00:49] <OvenWerks> eylul: I originally had governor set right together with use this setting for boot indented.
[00:49] <eylul> although
[00:49] <eylul> hmmm
[00:50] <eylul> Ovenwerks, I need you rephrase that last bit :)
[00:50] <OvenWerks> I just figure save what is there as a preset
[00:50] <OvenWerks>  everything is editing... any change is an edit.
[00:51] <eylul> then how does the user know if their change saved. and to which preset did it save to
[00:51] <OvenWerks>  some of them are boot time only, but many of them may be right now settings.
[00:51] <OvenWerks> they hit the save button and a dialog asks for a name
[00:51] <eylul> I know a lot of programs uses that paradigm (and especially if pop-ups are hard to do that makes sense) but it is important that we make a UI that clarifies when is something edited, when is something saved, and what is differing from the current saved state of a preset
[00:51] <eylul> *nods*
[00:52] <eylul> ok hang on let me sketch some of this stuff, so that I remember it in the morning
[00:53] <OvenWerks> there could be a load preset button too. I have already put a current preset label in and the preset drop down might have something else in it till the user hits load, then it becomes current
[00:53] <eylul> ok I think I understand what you are saying. 
[00:54] <OvenWerks> But normally when the user selects from the drop down that becomes cureent without a load button.
[00:54] <eylul> that MIGHT not be a problem
[00:54] <eylul> its more the issue of: they load a preset and modify it..
[00:54] <eylul> then it becomes visually confusing
[00:55] <OvenWerks> However, the tings have been setup so far, boot preferences are set on exit, on the fly setting happen at button click.
[00:55] <eylul> *nods*
[00:55] <OvenWerks> as soon as one thing is changed the current preset becomes "USER"
[00:56] <eylul> ummhmm
[00:56] <eylul> that works
[00:56] <eylul> OR 
[00:56] <eylul> <Preset Name>(modified)
[00:56] <OvenWerks> Maybe the text space that shows the current preset should be editable so the name can be changed there... but if the user hits save they are asked for a name.
[00:57] <eylul> *nods*
[00:57] <eylul> we do want them able to modify an existing preset too through
[00:57] <OvenWerks> Sure (modified) works better
[00:57] <eylul> ok so what I have so far is
[00:57] <OvenWerks> yes then they save as the same name.
[00:58] <OvenWerks> so we read system profiles first, then user profiles and use the last read of any two with the same name
[00:58] <eylul> main tab, with boot options and current presets, then tabs where you can edit each preset
[00:58] <eylul> well ideally 2 profiles shouldn't have same name, program shouldn't allow
[00:58] <OvenWerks> So you are taking the top part and making it a tab too?
[00:59] <eylul> I am thinking tabs should be on top
[00:59] <eylul> oh goodness, hang on
[00:59] <OvenWerks> eylul: if there are any preshipped presets the only way for a user to over write them is if there is two with the same name.
[01:00] <eylul> ahh I see
[01:00] <OvenWerks> this is the way system menu editing is done BTW
[01:01] <eylul> that's not encouraging :D
[01:01] <eylul> (I am jesting, that makes sense actually
[01:03] <OvenWerks> SO you are thinking the tabs should be at the top and file stuff at the bottom?
[01:03] <eylul> let me just draw this 
[01:09] <eylul> and I crashed inkscape :D
[01:12] <OvenWerks> In many ways it would be nice (from my POV) to get things working first. That is to be able to control all the things we need to. I am adding just basic separation so far. After it is working then shuffle things around. I am going to at least finish the boost stuff at this point... Setting it at boot. Then if style is more organized I can switch looks before continuing.
[01:16] <OvenWerks> I am thinking that you may be saying that the user expects things to be where they left them on reboot. So it would not be needed to have two buttons for each thing.
[01:16] <OvenWerks> for example cpu governor might show:
[01:17] <OvenWerks> CPU Governor |dropdown showing current governor|[X] keep this setting
[01:18] <OvenWerks> All in one line
[01:30] <OvenWerks> eylul: so after some thinking... I think one tab should be "Basic UbuntuStudio setup" This should include things that we normally set up as default but which someone installing our metas will not have. This basically includes the two original items, in audio group and able to use RT.
[01:31] <OvenWerks> Then system tweaks (or settings) would have things like CPU governor and Boost that may not only be useful to audio but other things as well.
[01:32] <OvenWerks> then an Audio tab, a graphics tab and a video tab? or does it need to be more specific
[01:33] <eylul> I think what I have is similar
[01:33] <eylul> but not quitte same
[01:33] <eylul> I am still not sure 100% tablet stuff should be even in same controls, but yeah.. sorry
[01:33] <eylul> this takes forever to draw. 
[01:35] <OvenWerks> :)
[01:37] <OvenWerks> The tablet shouod have an applet in the settings menu.... on the other hand I would prefer to see this one in settings rather than system too.
[01:48] <eylul> OvenWerks: http://ubuntustudio.azbulutlu.org/wp-content/uploads/controlUI.png
[01:50] <eylul> on one hand wacom tablet tray applet is a sorely needed feature, and on one hand having it as part of ubuntustudio controls: it is a control, and integral one (its more than just settings because having presets again is useful in this case) on other hand its complicated
[01:50] <eylul> anyhow it is 5am here
[01:50] <eylul> I should go to sleep
[01:51] <OvenWerks> Yikes!
[01:51] <eylul> yeah I was heading to sleep when you caught me
[01:51] <eylul> but this was a useful discussion!
[01:51] <OvenWerks> ping whenever. I will change some things and get boost to work on boot
[01:52] <eylul> awesome
[01:52] <OvenWerks> later...  o/
[01:52] <eylul> will ping you tomorrow and mail this image etc to ML too so that people can follow. gnight!!! o/