| robert_ancell | Pharaoh_Atem, yes, that was what I was thinking :( | 00:29 |
|---|---|---|
| Pharaoh_Atem | robert_ancell: I have a rediffed version of the patch (http://copr-dist-git.fedorainfracloud.org/cgit/ngompa/Mir/libinput.git/tree/libinput-1.5.0-touch-point-orientation.patch), but there's literally no way I can ever *hope* to consider getting Mir in Fedora proper while patches are required in libinput and mesa | 00:51 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | robert_ancell: though I suspect the Mesa people aren't particularly happy with the idea that Mir turns Mesa GPLv3 | 00:53 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | which might explain why the platform support patch hasn't made it in | 00:53 |
| robert_ancell | Pharaoh_Atem, what's the GPLv3 issue? | 00:54 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | the community doesn't particularly care for copyleft licenses at all | 00:54 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | Wayland is licensed under the same terms as Mesa and Xorg (X11 Expat license) | 00:54 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | they're more in the "copyfree" (or as I call it, "pushover") camp | 00:55 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | robert_ancell: that particular community is made up of Linux, BSD, Windows, and various other platform people | 00:56 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | with the exception of Linux, all of them prefer permissive licensing | 00:57 |
| robert_ancell | Pharaoh_Atem, but how is Mir affecting the Mesa license? | 00:57 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | in order for Mir to function, Mesa must have a platform module built into it | 00:57 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | which links the Mir libraries | 00:57 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | thus, Mesa, when compiled with Mir support, goes from X11/MIT to GPLv3 | 00:58 |
| robert_ancell | Pharaoh_Atem, the Mir client library is LGPL, so that shouldn't be an issue | 01:00 |
| RAOF | No; it goes to LGPLv3 | 01:00 |
| RAOF | Or, rather, it remains X11/MIT as long as you don't statically link libmirclient in. | 01:01 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | ah, so the mesa client libs are LGPLv3 then? | 01:01 |
| RAOF | libmirclient is LGPLv3. | 01:01 |
| RAOF | Anything you need for writing clients (or drivers) is LGPL; if you want to write a server, those libraries are GPL. | 01:02 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | hmm | 01:03 |
| RAOF | The reason why the platform support patch hasn't made it in is that we need to blow it up in the immediate future. | 01:03 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | blow it up? | 01:03 |
| RAOF | Change the API. | 01:03 |
| RAOF | Change the types you hand to EGL. | 01:04 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | is that happening soon? | 01:04 |
| RAOF | Yes. | 01:04 |
| RAOF | The Mir plumbing required to do that has either landed or is in a reveiewable MP, I think. | 01:05 |
| RAOF | The final step is to publish that API and migrate the platform patch. | 01:06 |
| RAOF | (And, obviously, to migrate all the downstreams. Yay!) | 01:06 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | well, the downstreams aren't exactly plentiful, so that's not nearly as big of an issue | 01:07 |
| RAOF | Right. *Particularly* when the patch isn't upstream. | 01:07 |
| * RAOF is also somewhat glad he never quite got around to implementing EGL_KHR_platform_mir support, so we can update that spec before it's released. | 01:07 | |
| RAOF | Incidentally, thanks for doing the Fedora packaging work. | 01:09 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | unfortunately, it's all broken | 01:10 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | Mesa in Fedora is now at v13 | 01:10 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | and that patch is not trivial to rebase | 01:10 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | RAOF: it seems like *technically* it's possible to use Mir without the mesa patch | 01:10 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | so the *bare minimum* for me being willing to put Mir through review in Fedora would be to get the libinput patch upstreamed | 01:11 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | as it won't compile without it | 01:11 |
| RAOF | It is. You can't run GL clients, but you can run GL shells and software-rendered clients. | 01:11 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | eugh | 01:11 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | not a great experience then | 01:12 |
| RAOF | Yes. | 01:12 |
| RAOF | EGL unavoidaby requires platform-integration for different display servers. | 01:12 |
| RAOF | (At least until someone proposes and implements a vendor-neutralish EGL with platform integration bits, like Android). | 01:13 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | well, that would require the big Linux companies and the big GL consumers to come together to agree on something | 01:13 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | we can't have that! </sarcasm> | 01:14 |
| RAOF | Heh. glvnd now exists, vulkan has a mostly-sensible ICD system. | 01:15 |
| RAOF | Things are getting better :) | 01:15 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | glvnd *barely* made it into Fedora 25 | 01:15 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | so we have that fully enabled | 01:15 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | well, technically, it made it to Fedora 23+ | 01:16 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | but we're starting to use it with Fedora 25 | 01:16 |
| RAOF | And in another 10 years or so maybe we can remove the previous Linux OpenGL ABI! | 01:16 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | yeah, no | 01:16 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | you're asking for way too much | 01:16 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | even Apple and Microsoft haven't done that | 01:17 |
| RAOF | Yeah, I know it's not going to happen. | 01:18 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | my main interest in Mir has been to see if I can accomplish what many of my predecessors say is impossible: get Unity working properly on Fedora, without downgrading half the world | 01:19 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | and since Unity 7 is on life support, I've looked toward Unity 8 | 01:19 |
| RAOF | Unity8 should be helpful there, as it mostly doesn't rely on GNOME patches. | 01:20 |
| RAOF | (And Qt is friendlier to downstream platform integration) | 01:20 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | yes | 01:21 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | it helps that since I'm more of a KDE guy myself, I'm more familiar with that stack | 01:22 |
| RAOF | Although I also think that much of our Qt stuff is upstream. | 01:22 |
| RAOF | Although not qtmir, because it's a fast moving target. | 01:23 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | it is, but it's disabled in Fedora since we don't have the scaffolding for it | 01:23 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | i.e. Mir itself | 01:23 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | and various unity libraries | 01:23 |
| RAOF | Heh | 01:23 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | well, we recently brought back libunity and libappindicator, since Plasma 5 now uses them | 01:23 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | I've never been happy with how those projects are managed, though | 01:24 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | we're forced to yank tarballs from the ubuntu archive because the lp projects are dead wastelands with no updated releases ever made | 01:24 |
| RAOF | Embrace the rolling release + CI pipeline! | 01:25 |
| RAOF | It Is Life | 01:25 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | well, that would require things like mir's gmock tests to actually work | 01:26 |
| RAOF | (Or, more seriously, is hostile to downstreams) | 01:27 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | right | 01:27 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | I've always had a bit of lethargy for working with Launchpad-hosted projects, because they tend to do this to me | 01:27 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | irony of ironies, my very first package in Fedora is of a piece of software hosted on Launchpad | 01:28 |
| RAOF | There was a time when our projects would do actual releases, but not now. Mir is an outlier in that we *do* do releases. | 01:28 |
| RAOF | (Because we don't have a stable C++ ABI, so updating Mir requires rebuilding the world, so we don't do that every commit ☺) | 01:28 |
| RAOF | On the plus side, you *should* be able to take a random trunk commit and have it work properly. | 01:29 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | nope | 01:29 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | I won't trust that until I can run gmock tests | 01:29 |
| RAOF | What's broken there? We don't patch googletest. | 01:30 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | unfortunately, for some reason I cannot fathom, Mir's CMake script can't detect gmock and gtest | 01:30 |
| RAOF | Does fedora just lack the latest gtest? | 01:30 |
| RAOF | Huh. Maybe you install it in an odd place? | 01:30 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/gtest | 01:30 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/gmock | 01:31 |
| RAOF | Alternatively, maybe you don't install the sources and expect projects to link to prebuilt libraries? | 01:31 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | for gmock, it's sources | 01:31 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | for gtest, it's libraries | 01:31 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/gmock/sources/spec/ | 01:31 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/gtest/sources/spec/ | 01:32 |
| RAOF | Well, we have googletest 1.8.0 in zesty. But we don't require it. | 01:32 |
| RAOF | Right. Our gtest detection won't work unless you've got the gtest sources unpacked somewhere. | 01:32 |
| RAOF | (As is recommended by upstream) | 01:32 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | upstream dropped that recommendation when they fully moved over to cmake | 01:32 |
| Pharaoh_Atem | the apt guys told me the same thing... | 01:33 |
| * RAOF heads out. | 01:34 | |
| Pharaoh_Atem | RAOF: https://github.com/Debian/apt/commit/99ba7cc1901c761c97d67775f23858b86594f2ba | 01:36 |
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| anpok_ | Pharaoh_Atem: it was proposed but not yet added because a way to calibrate/scale the reported touch contact size unit into something meaningful was missing.. | 09:03 |
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