=== MaNL is now known as MaNI\
theblazehennlsthzn you wanted to see my zsh, right? https://asciinema.org/a/2mc1k5cv43uj5yrh5b11f6ebx06:59
=== MaNI\ is now known as MaNI
nlsthznwell it wasn't me theblazehen I just mentioned I had used fish before :) but it looks sweet08:23
theblazehennlsthzn ty. May have been nsnzero then08:24
theblazehenmaaz tell nsnzero https://asciinema.org/a/2mc1k5cv43uj5yrh5b11f6ebx zsh08:40
Maaztheblazehen: Okay, I'll tell nsnzero on freenode08:40
* theblazehen wishes there was some kind of abstraction between code and how it's viewed. Basically like having a reverse lexer? That way people don't have to worry about tabs vs spaces, how many spaces per level of indentation, K&R style vs Allman style braces, etc.10:31
theblazehenLexing would be the right stepp in the process, right? Or would it be at the parsing level?10:31
MaNIif everyone followed some or other standard 100% that would be possible - and already is - but the problem comes in that there are always edge cases where the styling standard doesn't make sense, and then people want to deviate from it, and that part then gets lost when auto formatting10:34
theblazehenMaNI got examples?10:35
theblazehenHow would the golang people handle it? Since they use gofmt etc10:35
MaNII can't comment on golang, but for C++ there is e.g. clang-format10:36
* theblazehen is referring to example edge cases10:37
MaNIit is perfectly possible to set git or svn up to automatically do `clang-format <someorotherorganisationspec>` on all commits, and to do `clang-format <coderspersonalpreference>` on checkouts10:37
theblazehenI guess10:38
theblazehenhttps://i.imgur.com/wG51k7v.png :(10:39
MaNIwell, lets say comments are always a single space, followed by a '//' followed by a space, and then text - maybe 95% of the comments are like this, but somewhere in my code there is bound to be a place where it is desired for the comments at the end of multiple different lines to line up with one another - so a different number of spaces at the start10:39
theblazehenAh, yes. That's a good case. Forgot that not everything in the source is code10:40
theblazehenI like how TempleOS does the seperation of code and documentation10:41
theblazehenThe OS is by a crazy guy, but I like how HolyC handles documentation, embedded data (eg sprites) etc10:42
theblazehenhttp://theblazehen.com/templeos.vdi 1024x512 try it with an older virtualbox version or something. It used to work10:42
pavlushkaahoy ZA!10:45
pavlushkaa hey theblazehen :p10:45
theblazehenhi pavlushka10:45
pavlushkatheblazehen: you haven't used ssl for your site I see :p10:46
MaNIwow, thats one disturbing wikipedia article10:46
theblazehenpavlushka yeah, that's on my old server. Still migrating to home where my reverse proxy does ssl10:47
pavlushkahey chesedo :)10:49
theblazehenlinx.home.theblazehen.com <- with SSL with my reverse proxy pavlushka10:57
pavlushkachesedo: where's your re-verification application?10:57
pavlushkagot it10:58
nlsthznremoved myself as ubuntu member from the page :/ oh well onward and upward and all that shenanigans...11:01
pavlushkais it a bad line "even if you had a bad day at work, join #ubuntu-za on IRC and they might even cheer you up :). " ?11:25
nlsthzn*they will cheer you up ;)11:26
pavlushkanlsthzn: ha ha ha, yes, that's correct :)11:28
nlsthznyou have failed me for the last time Unity 7.blablabla11:37
* nlsthzn goes and wrangles a geeko11:38
andrewlsdI've added a bit from me for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZATeam/ReVerificationApplication201613:00
* andrewlsd goes away again for a bit. 13:02
MaNLdoes anybody here use snaps ( http://snapcraft.io/ ) - just wanted to gauge the average linux users opinion on them. Would you be okay if some package you wanted only came in snap form, or do you expect to also have it in the main repo? Do you like the idea of snaps or hate it? etc.13:15
=== MaNL is now known as MaNI
andrewlsdMaNI: I use some snaps13:18
andrewlsdI prefer repo for "stable" apps13:18
andrewlsdand 'snap' for dev/testing stuff.13:18
andrewlsdbecause then I don't have to install tons of dev/incompatible shared libraries.13:18
andrewlsdobviously, snaps have a size overhead, which can hurt those on slow/limited_cap connections13:19
andrewlsdthe idea of using snaps to update parts in _embedded systems_ looks very good.  (again, snap app size needs to somehow be dealt with as many embedded devices have very limited storage)13:20
andrewlsdcurrent snaps installed:13:21
andrewlsdanatine ; canonical-livepatch ; lnks ; qownnotes ; toilet ; ubuntu-core ; vlc13:21
andrewlsdMaNI: if doing "Electron" apps, check out AppImage.    (nice for native apps too.)13:22
andrewlsdAppImage are portable apps, and work on pretty much any distro.13:22
andrewlsdbut... they don't have the sandbox protection of snaps or FlatPack 13:22
andrewlsdafter checking out Appimage.org, have a look at https://dl.bintray.com/probono/AppImages/ for some ready-to-use  .AppImage software.13:23
andrewlsd... following on on the dev/testing via snap:  I like it for ease of total removal.13:24
andrewlsdso I think of snaps as "local-only" application containers.13:25
andrewlsdhope that helps MaNI13:25
MaNII'm thinking about it from this viewpoint13:29
MaNLstable internet would be fantastic13:34
=== MaNL is now known as MaNI
MaNI1) I'm maintaining a cross platform app that the linux version of currently just ships as a zip file with some binaries in13:38
MaNI2) People seem to be confused about how to install this, ideally it would be nice if they could just install it through a package manager or something13:38
MaNI3) I don't really have the time or energy to deal with trying to get into an actual package manager, plus probably extra grief because debian may not like the licensing, plus I want to support a lot of other distros13:39
MaNIso I'm wondering if putting up a snap is a good way around that (works on multiple distros) or if most users have never run into snaps and won't know what to do with them13:39
MaNII could also do some kind of .run style thing I guess - but people never seem to have been fans of those, wondering if it's similar with snaps or if people are a bit more receptive of those13:41
andrewlsdMaNI: AppImage is probably the right way for you then.13:42
andrewlsdno "install", just double-click to run.13:43
andrewlsdAppImage does have a mechanism for creating .Desktop files, so that the gui shell (gnome/kde/unity) will have application launchers13:43
andrewlsdbenefit of snaps: updates are possible13:44
andrewlsddrawback: only usable by default on Ubuntu. Any other distros would require the user to first manually install the snap framework13:44
andrewlsdbenefit of AppImage: truly portable Linux app.13:45
theblazehenOr just put it in docker /s13:45
andrewlsddrawback: no internal update framework. Update app by downloading and replacing it. 13:45
andrewlsddocker not so much fun for GUI app.13:45
andrewlsdbut true13:45
andrewlsdMaNI: is it a GUI app?13:46
theblazehenandrewlsd How easy it to to build appimage etc? /me created a .desktop entry to run acrobat reader in docker etc13:46
andrewlsdanother benefit of AppImage, no root privileges required.  Snap currently requires root, since it really installs13:46
MaNIdocker, gross13:46
andrewlsdAppImage is easy to build. has IDE hooks too.13:46
theblazehenandrewlsd hmm. Might check it out13:46
andrewlsdtheblazehen: AppImage.org13:46
andrewlsdand MaNI: https://github.com/probonopd/AppImageKit/blob/master/README.md13:47
theblazehenandrewlsd and do you need to build anything specially for it? Eg acrobat reader isn't open source13:48
andrewlsdtheblazehen: "An AppImage is an ISO 9660 file with zisofs compression containing a minimal AppDir (a directory that contains the app and all the files that it requires to run which are not part of the targeted base operating systems) and a tiny runtime executable embedded into its header. Hence, an AppImage is both an ISO 9660 file (that you can mount and examine) and an ELF executable (that you can execute)."13:48
MaNIapp image, somewhat interesting, though unless users are familiar with it, it doesn't solve the whole "where do I put it" question13:48
theblazehenandrewlsd cool13:49
andrewlsdMaNI: but true. but to solve "where do I put it" requires root.13:49
MaNIyeah - but what I mean is there will be a constant bombardment of people asking where it should go - it's the number 1 asked question for the current scheme (tar with binaries in)13:49
andrewlsdin which case, snap or flatpack may help.13:49
andrewlsdMaNI: and could be solved by a "FAQ"13:50
MaNIhaha, users that read that would be a first 13:50
andrewlsdtru dat13:50
MaNIsomething like snap handles that part, but then it's an issue for distros where they first have to install snap system13:50
andrewlsdare your end users "enterprise" environment, or home end-users. 13:50
MaNIhome end-users13:51
andrewlsdIf you want multi-distro, then AppImage. 13:51
andrewlsd... otherwise you'll have to still build .rpm .deb or .snap  for each supported distribution13:51
andrewlsdcheck out the "Appimage updater" too.13:52
MaNIthanks will have a look13:53
andrewlsdtheblazehen: https://github.com/probonopd/AppImages  for recipes for bundling real-world apps13:53
andrewlsdtheblazehen: check if you can put Acrobat Reader into one of those. would be fantastic.13:53
andrewlsdtheblazehen: I see AcroReader is a 32-bit app. Not sure how AppImage would handle that.13:57
theblazehenandrewlsd sure. You can see the docker in our salt if you like13:58
andrewlsdyeah, am looking at it13:59
andrewlsdgoing to try get all the required libs via: `lxc launch ubuntu:x/i386 xenial386`14:05
andrewlsdtheblazehen: https://github.com/mciverza/docker-acroread14:08
theblazehenandrewlsd that's where I grabbed it from iirc14:11
andrewlsdnot sure how far I'll get since it's 32-bit. so a docker/lxc might remain the best option.14:12
andrewlsd^ pretty nice use-case.14:12
andrewlsdie, install some crappy, unmaintained application without drastically compromising  your system14:13
andrewlsdso far: 69% of image retrieved by `lxc launch ubuntu:x/i386 xenial386`14:14
andrewlsdmaybe I should do this on Digital Ocean.14:14
* andrewlsd heads away from here for a few hours14:17
=== pavlushka is now known as The_Doctorman
=== The_Doctorman is now known as pavlushka
nsnzerogood evening all17:03
Kiloshi nsnzero 17:07
Kiloshi everyone else as well too17:07
Kiloswhat a long day17:07
nsnzerohi Kilos , how are you ?17:07
Kilosfrom 5 am till now travelling and sitting at hospital17:07
Kilosim ok ty and you17:07
Kilosgot a ton of meds17:08
Kilosmight be like a goofball for a moth17:08
nsnzerothats medication - fix 1 problem create 2 more17:11
nsnzerotheblazehen: awesome zsh theme = i am impressed17:14
Kiloshi inetpro superfly MaNI theblazehen Xethron 17:29
superflyhi Kilos17:31
superflysup nsnzero17:33
nsnzerotrying to copy theblazehen zsh config 17:35
Kilossuperfly can you and paddatrapper put a few links to debconf in https://trello.com/c/nW7ephrM/118-need-list-of-all-activities-held-in-last-two-years-under-the-flag-of-ubuntu-za18:32
Kilosunder list of all activities18:33
Kilosplease as well18:33
theblazehenhi Kilos. nsnzero ty :) http://linx.home.theblazehen.com/zshrc.ext just remove the unapplicable bits etc18:34
Kilossjoe 71 blazehens18:34
Kiloscan start a chicken coop soon18:34
theblazehenKilos sorry?18:35
Kilostheblazehen71 here more18:36
theblazehenAh. Right. Other irc bouncer18:36
Kilosso 71 plus you is 72 of them hens18:36
Kilosaw they left18:36
paddatrapperKilos: will do18:37
Kilosty paddatrapper 18:39
Kilosand maybe something saying fly is leaving south africa the next day but never ubuntu-za18:40
Kilosoh thats for you to say superfly 18:40
Kiloshi inetpro 19:07
Kilosinetpro ping19:07
Kilosid like to say good morning before i say night19:07
Kilosnight all, sleep tigh19:37
Kilostighter than that19:37

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