[06:59] <theblazehen> nlsthzn you wanted to see my zsh, right? https://asciinema.org/a/2mc1k5cv43uj5yrh5b11f6ebx
[08:23] <nlsthzn> well it wasn't me theblazehen I just mentioned I had used fish before :) but it looks sweet
[08:24] <theblazehen> nlsthzn ty. May have been nsnzero then
[08:40] <theblazehen> maaz tell nsnzero https://asciinema.org/a/2mc1k5cv43uj5yrh5b11f6ebx zsh
[08:40] <Maaz> theblazehen: Okay, I'll tell nsnzero on freenode
[10:31]  * theblazehen wishes there was some kind of abstraction between code and how it's viewed. Basically like having a reverse lexer? That way people don't have to worry about tabs vs spaces, how many spaces per level of indentation, K&R style vs Allman style braces, etc.
[10:31] <theblazehen> Lexing would be the right stepp in the process, right? Or would it be at the parsing level?
[10:34] <MaNI> if everyone followed some or other standard 100% that would be possible - and already is - but the problem comes in that there are always edge cases where the styling standard doesn't make sense, and then people want to deviate from it, and that part then gets lost when auto formatting
[10:35] <theblazehen> MaNI got examples?
[10:35] <theblazehen> How would the golang people handle it? Since they use gofmt etc
[10:36] <MaNI> I can't comment on golang, but for C++ there is e.g. clang-format
[10:37]  * theblazehen is referring to example edge cases
[10:37] <MaNI> it is perfectly possible to set git or svn up to automatically do `clang-format <someorotherorganisationspec>` on all commits, and to do `clang-format <coderspersonalpreference>` on checkouts
[10:38] <theblazehen> I guess
[10:39] <theblazehen> https://i.imgur.com/wG51k7v.png :(
[10:39] <MaNI> well, lets say comments are always a single space, followed by a '//' followed by a space, and then text - maybe 95% of the comments are like this, but somewhere in my code there is bound to be a place where it is desired for the comments at the end of multiple different lines to line up with one another - so a different number of spaces at the start
[10:40] <theblazehen> Ah, yes. That's a good case. Forgot that not everything in the source is code
[10:41] <theblazehen> I like how TempleOS does the seperation of code and documentation
[10:42] <theblazehen> The OS is by a crazy guy, but I like how HolyC handles documentation, embedded data (eg sprites) etc
[10:42] <theblazehen> http://theblazehen.com/templeos.vdi 1024x512 try it with an older virtualbox version or something. It used to work
[10:45] <pavlushka> ahoy ZA!
[10:45] <pavlushka> a hey theblazehen :p
[10:45] <theblazehen> hi pavlushka
[10:46] <pavlushka> theblazehen: you haven't used ssl for your site I see :p
[10:46] <MaNI> wow, thats one disturbing wikipedia article
[10:47] <theblazehen> pavlushka yeah, that's on my old server. Still migrating to home where my reverse proxy does ssl
[10:48] <pavlushka> aha
[10:49] <pavlushka> hey chesedo :)
[10:57] <theblazehen> linx.home.theblazehen.com <- with SSL with my reverse proxy pavlushka
[10:57] <pavlushka> chesedo: where's your re-verification application?
[10:58] <pavlushka> got it
[11:01] <nlsthzn> removed myself as ubuntu member from the page :/ oh well onward and upward and all that shenanigans...
[11:25] <pavlushka> is it a bad line "even if you had a bad day at work, join #ubuntu-za on IRC and they might even cheer you up :). " ?
[11:26] <nlsthzn> *they will cheer you up ;)
[11:28] <pavlushka> nlsthzn: ha ha ha, yes, that's correct :)
[11:37] <nlsthzn> you have failed me for the last time Unity 7.blablabla
[11:37] <nlsthzn> grrrr
[11:38]  * nlsthzn goes and wrangles a geeko
[13:00] <andrewlsd> I've added a bit from me for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZATeam/ReVerificationApplication2016
[13:02]  * andrewlsd goes away again for a bit. 
[13:15] <MaNL> does anybody here use snaps ( http://snapcraft.io/ ) - just wanted to gauge the average linux users opinion on them. Would you be okay if some package you wanted only came in snap form, or do you expect to also have it in the main repo? Do you like the idea of snaps or hate it? etc.
[13:18] <andrewlsd> MaNI: I use some snaps
[13:18] <andrewlsd> I prefer repo for "stable" apps
[13:18] <andrewlsd> and 'snap' for dev/testing stuff.
[13:18] <andrewlsd> because then I don't have to install tons of dev/incompatible shared libraries.
[13:19] <andrewlsd> obviously, snaps have a size overhead, which can hurt those on slow/limited_cap connections
[13:20] <andrewlsd> the idea of using snaps to update parts in _embedded systems_ looks very good.  (again, snap app size needs to somehow be dealt with as many embedded devices have very limited storage)
[13:21] <andrewlsd> current snaps installed:
[13:21] <andrewlsd> anatine ; canonical-livepatch ; lnks ; qownnotes ; toilet ; ubuntu-core ; vlc
[13:22] <andrewlsd> MaNI: if doing "Electron" apps, check out AppImage.    (nice for native apps too.)
[13:22] <andrewlsd> AppImage are portable apps, and work on pretty much any distro.
[13:22] <andrewlsd> but... they don't have the sandbox protection of snaps or FlatPack 
[13:23] <andrewlsd> after checking out Appimage.org, have a look at https://dl.bintray.com/probono/AppImages/ for some ready-to-use  .AppImage software.
[13:24] <andrewlsd> ... following on on the dev/testing via snap:  I like it for ease of total removal.
[13:24] <andrewlsd> s/it/snaps/
[13:25] <andrewlsd> so I think of snaps as "local-only" application containers.
[13:25] <andrewlsd> hope that helps MaNI
[13:29] <MaNI> I'm thinking about it from this viewpoint
[13:34] <MaNL> stable internet would be fantastic
[13:38] <MaNI> 1) I'm maintaining a cross platform app that the linux version of currently just ships as a zip file with some binaries in
[13:38] <MaNI> 2) People seem to be confused about how to install this, ideally it would be nice if they could just install it through a package manager or something
[13:39] <MaNI> 3) I don't really have the time or energy to deal with trying to get into an actual package manager, plus probably extra grief because debian may not like the licensing, plus I want to support a lot of other distros
[13:39] <MaNI> so I'm wondering if putting up a snap is a good way around that (works on multiple distros) or if most users have never run into snaps and won't know what to do with them
[13:41] <MaNI> I could also do some kind of .run style thing I guess - but people never seem to have been fans of those, wondering if it's similar with snaps or if people are a bit more receptive of those
[13:42] <andrewlsd> MaNI: AppImage is probably the right way for you then.
[13:43] <andrewlsd> no "install", just double-click to run.
[13:43] <andrewlsd> AppImage does have a mechanism for creating .Desktop files, so that the gui shell (gnome/kde/unity) will have application launchers
[13:44] <andrewlsd> benefit of snaps: updates are possible
[13:44] <andrewlsd> drawback: only usable by default on Ubuntu. Any other distros would require the user to first manually install the snap framework
[13:45] <andrewlsd> benefit of AppImage: truly portable Linux app.
[13:45] <theblazehen> Or just put it in docker /s
[13:45] <andrewlsd> drawback: no internal update framework. Update app by downloading and replacing it. 
[13:45] <andrewlsd> docker not so much fun for GUI app.
[13:45] <andrewlsd> but true
[13:46] <andrewlsd> MaNI: is it a GUI app?
[13:46] <MaNI> yes
[13:46] <theblazehen> andrewlsd How easy it to to build appimage etc? /me created a .desktop entry to run acrobat reader in docker etc
[13:46] <andrewlsd> another benefit of AppImage, no root privileges required.  Snap currently requires root, since it really installs
[13:46] <MaNI> docker, gross
[13:46] <andrewlsd> AppImage is easy to build. has IDE hooks too.
[13:46] <theblazehen> andrewlsd hmm. Might check it out
[13:46] <andrewlsd> theblazehen: AppImage.org
[13:47] <andrewlsd> and MaNI: https://github.com/probonopd/AppImageKit/blob/master/README.md
[13:48] <theblazehen> andrewlsd and do you need to build anything specially for it? Eg acrobat reader isn't open source
[13:48] <andrewlsd> theblazehen: "An AppImage is an ISO 9660 file with zisofs compression containing a minimal AppDir (a directory that contains the app and all the files that it requires to run which are not part of the targeted base operating systems) and a tiny runtime executable embedded into its header. Hence, an AppImage is both an ISO 9660 file (that you can mount and examine) and an ELF executable (that you can execute)."
[13:48] <MaNI> app image, somewhat interesting, though unless users are familiar with it, it doesn't solve the whole "where do I put it" question
[13:49] <andrewlsd> ~/Downloads
[13:49] <theblazehen> andrewlsd cool
[13:49] <andrewlsd> MaNI: but true. but to solve "where do I put it" requires root.
[13:49] <MaNI> yeah - but what I mean is there will be a constant bombardment of people asking where it should go - it's the number 1 asked question for the current scheme (tar with binaries in)
[13:49] <andrewlsd> in which case, snap or flatpack may help.
[13:50] <andrewlsd> MaNI: and could be solved by a "FAQ"
[13:50] <MaNI> haha, users that read that would be a first 
[13:50] <andrewlsd> tru dat
[13:50] <MaNI> something like snap handles that part, but then it's an issue for distros where they first have to install snap system
[13:50] <MaNI> hrm
[13:50] <andrewlsd> are your end users "enterprise" environment, or home end-users. 
[13:51] <MaNI> home end-users
[13:51] <andrewlsd> If you want multi-distro, then AppImage. 
[13:51] <andrewlsd> ... otherwise you'll have to still build .rpm .deb or .snap  for each supported distribution
[13:52] <andrewlsd> check out the "Appimage updater" too.
[13:52] <MaNI> okay
[13:53] <MaNI> thanks will have a look
[13:53] <andrewlsd> theblazehen: https://github.com/probonopd/AppImages  for recipes for bundling real-world apps
[13:53] <andrewlsd> theblazehen: check if you can put Acrobat Reader into one of those. would be fantastic.
[13:57] <andrewlsd> theblazehen: I see AcroReader is a 32-bit app. Not sure how AppImage would handle that.
[13:58] <theblazehen> andrewlsd sure. You can see the docker in our salt if you like
[13:59] <andrewlsd> yeah, am looking at it
[14:05] <andrewlsd> going to try get all the required libs via: `lxc launch ubuntu:x/i386 xenial386`
[14:08] <andrewlsd> theblazehen: https://github.com/mciverza/docker-acroread
[14:11] <theblazehen> andrewlsd that's where I grabbed it from iirc
[14:12] <andrewlsd> not sure how far I'll get since it's 32-bit. so a docker/lxc might remain the best option.
[14:12] <andrewlsd> ^ pretty nice use-case.
[14:13] <andrewlsd> ie, install some crappy, unmaintained application without drastically compromising  your system
[14:14] <andrewlsd> so far: 69% of image retrieved by `lxc launch ubuntu:x/i386 xenial386`
[14:14] <andrewlsd> maybe I should do this on Digital Ocean.
[14:17]  * andrewlsd heads away from here for a few hours
[16:09] <qwebirc5465> HELP
[17:03] <nsnzero> good evening all
[17:07] <Kilos> hi nsnzero 
[17:07] <Kilos> hi everyone else as well too
[17:07] <Kilos> what a long day
[17:07] <nsnzero> hi Kilos , how are you ?
[17:07] <Kilos> from 5 am till now travelling and sitting at hospital
[17:07] <Kilos> im ok ty and you
[17:08] <Kilos> got a ton of meds
[17:08] <Kilos> might be like a goofball for a moth
[17:08] <Kilos> month
[17:11] <nsnzero> thats medication - fix 1 problem create 2 more
[17:14] <nsnzero> theblazehen: awesome zsh theme = i am impressed
[17:29] <Kilos> hi inetpro superfly MaNI theblazehen Xethron 
[17:31] <superfly> hi Kilos
[17:33] <nsnzero> superfly
[17:33] <superfly> sup nsnzero
[17:35] <nsnzero> trying to copy theblazehen zsh config 
[18:32] <Kilos> superfly can you and paddatrapper put a few links to debconf in https://trello.com/c/nW7ephrM/118-need-list-of-all-activities-held-in-last-two-years-under-the-flag-of-ubuntu-za
[18:33] <Kilos> plese
[18:33] <Kilos> under list of all activities
[18:33] <Kilos> please as well
[18:34] <theblazehen> hi Kilos. nsnzero ty :) http://linx.home.theblazehen.com/zshrc.ext just remove the unapplicable bits etc
[18:34] <Kilos> sjoe 71 blazehens
[18:34] <Kilos> can start a chicken coop soon
[18:35] <theblazehen> Kilos sorry?
[18:36] <Kilos> theblazehen71 here more
[18:36] <theblazehen> Ah. Right. Other irc bouncer
[18:36] <Kilos> so 71 plus you is 72 of them hens
[18:36] <theblazehen> heh
[18:36] <Kilos> aw they left
[18:36] <theblazehen> heh
[18:37] <paddatrapper> Kilos: will do
[18:39] <Kilos> ty paddatrapper 
[18:40] <Kilos> and maybe something saying fly is leaving south africa the next day but never ubuntu-za
[18:40] <Kilos> oh thats for you to say superfly 
[19:07] <Kilos> hi inetpro 
[19:07] <Kilos> inetpro ping
[19:07] <Kilos> id like to say good morning before i say night
[19:37] <Kilos> night all, sleep tigh
[19:37] <Kilos> tighter than that