theblazehenhi Kilos06:28
Kiloshi theblazehen 06:29
=== Kilos is now known as inet
=== inet is now known as Kilos
Kilosmorning inetpro paddatrapper and others06:30
superflygood evening Kilos, theblazehen06:59
superflyand paddatrapper, who I know is lurking, I mean, working.06:59
Kilosohi superfly 07:03
superflygood afternoon Kilos07:03
theblazehenhi superfly07:07
chesedomorning Kilos theblazehen superfly and others07:37
Kiloshi chesedo 07:37
theblazehenhi chesedo07:37
superflyhi chesedo07:37
paddatrapperMorning Kilos, superfly, theblazehen, chesedo 08:02
theblazehenhi paddatrapper08:02
Kiloshow is our kid, she hasnt said anything for days08:04
chesedohi paddatrapper08:09
Kiloshi nsnzero 08:20
nsnzerohi there Kilos and everyone else08:20
chesedohi nsnzero08:21
nsnzerohow is everyone ?08:21
Kilosok ty and you?08:30
nsnzeroi am doing ok08:36
nsnzerogithub is an excellent repository for sources 09:09
* theblazehen is beginning to like emacs / spacemacs... Eveil is good enough12:33
theblazehenPretty sure you can't get an ipython notebook in vim :)12:33
Symmetriawho's awake :)18:02
Kiloswhats up Symmetria 18:12
Kiloswhat does that mean for za18:16
Symmetriaheh might take some time18:21
Symmetriabut I want Neotel to become the competitive entity it should be 18:21
nsnzeroevening Kilos, Symmetria18:21
Kiloshi nsnzero 18:21
Symmetriaits gonna be a long hard road ahead - I can see myself spending a hell of a lot of time moving back and forth between KE and ZA 18:21
Symmetrialo nsnzero18:21
Symmetriaheh, kilos lol, everyone always joked on mybroadband that I shouldnt be at TENET, I should be at telkom or neotel to change the landscape there instead 18:22
Symmetriawell - now they got their wish - now I just gotta deliver :) 18:22
nsnzeroneotel offered a much cheaper wireless broadband deal now maybe they can be even cheaper18:23
Kilosyip well wait for you to deliver18:23
Kilosgood luck18:24
Kiloskeep up the good work18:24
Symmetriaheh Kilos it wont happen overnight though - re-working something that size is time consuming, requires a lot of work, a lot of planning, and treading carefully18:24
Kilosthats your game18:24
Kilosyou do it well18:24
nsnzeroand why do we pay so much for data compared to other countries ?18:26
=== MaNL is now known as MaNI
Symmetriansnzero heh - the mobile operators are ripping people off 18:27
MaNIto play devils advocate have you seen how far away from t he test of the world we are compared to other countries?18:28
Symmetriaand the way things are priced in ZA and the way people are amortizing is... odd18:28
MaNIthat said we are also being ripped off majorly18:28
SymmetriaMaNI again - it depends - firstly - you cannot compare ZA to Europe or the states - lets be blunt there - there are economic reasons for that18:28
Symmetriaand in African context - ZA is actually a LOT better than *most* (with the exception of KE possibly)18:29
Symmetriaheh - let me try and explain - in Europe and the states - what happened was that many people built many networks18:29
Symmetriahundreds of thousands of kilometers of fiber went in18:29
Symmetriaat huge expense18:29
Symmetria(late 90s) 18:29
Symmetriaend of the 90s happened, the big crash happened 18:30
Symmetriaand companies folded like flies 18:30
Symmetriathat meant all those fiber assets landed on the market at 3c to the dollar 18:30
Symmetriaand the prices crashed - because the actual infrastructure costs were effectively written off in massive bankcrucpies 18:30
Symmetriathat massive crash and the consolidation that followed didnt happen in Africa - we weren't exposed enough - meaning that you're still payign the cost of the actual infrastructure18:31
Symmetriainstead of the fictional post bankcrupcy cost18:31
MaNIwell theres also this little fact18:31
Symmetriamani yes 18:32
MaNII mean Europe is actually tiny - and very population dense, South Africa is big, spread out population, and very far away from everywhere18:32
MaNIwe do tend to forget this18:32
nsnzeroiirc - fiber is alot cheaper than copper - can carry more signals - better distance between repeater - no shielding18:33
MaNIbut at the same time our state owned monopolistic nonsense does not help, have an absolutely worthless SNO thats only there to look pretty also doesn't help18:34
MaNIthe mobile operators are just a continuation of that tradition.18:34
nsnzeroand so is australia , but they have better internet 18:34
MaNIwe love our monopolies here, not even limited to communications it shows in many sectors and it holds our entire country back in many ways. 18:34
Symmetriaheh nsnzero actually australian internet18:36
Symmetriais not that much better 18:36
Symmetriaand you're technically correct about fiber - but the costs of putting it in the ground would still blow your mind 18:37
* Symmetria points out that you're spending often in excess of 15 thousand dollars for every kilometer of fiber you trench into the ground18:37
Symmetriaheh building fiber networks costs hundreds of millions of dollars 18:39
Symmetriaand you can't get away from that18:39
Symmetriaand at that point - price is determined on how you are amortizing and what your planned ROI is 18:39
Symmetriayou also need to realize that there is another point about ZA - network engineers in ZA are *expensive* 18:40
Symmetriaas in - way way way way more expensive than in most of europe18:40
nsnzero15k is really ridiculous for plastic wires - but since everything is moving towards the internet - it will eventually pay for itself 18:40
Symmetriabecause they are hard to find 18:40
Symmetriansnzero heh its not plastic - its glass 18:40
Symmetriaand its actually not the cost of the fiber that costs that 18:40
Symmetriaits the trenching and the ducting and the labor 18:41
Symmetriathe cable itself is cheap - very cheap 18:41
Symmetriaheh digging up the road to put in under the ground is another story, and the other thing that costs a hell of a lot of money is the splicing 18:41
Symmetriaheh, you can't just twist fiber together to join it - it requires trained people with extremely expensive hardware to join fibers 18:42
nsnzeroi watched a documentary on undersea cable repairs - i think they charged 100 million dollars18:42
Symmetriaand in the event of a break (someone digs it up) because its made of glass - you aren't replacing 30 centimeters of cable - in many instances yo ucan find yourself replacing 100s of meters of it - because it compound shatters18:42
Symmetriansnzero heh, that entirely depends on a number of factors - primarily - where are the boats when the break happens18:43
Symmetriathere are limited number of ships capable of affecting such repairs - if they are on the other side of the world, its gonna get really expensive to get them to the break point18:43
Symmetriathen you gotta cover the cost of actually pulling the cable to the surface, the cost of the joins, security for the repair vessel, etc18:44
nsnzeroyeah it was a complicated job took weeks to repair18:45
Symmetriaalways does :)18:45
SymmetriaI've been involved in submarine system builds before - the money involved and the costs etc are immense18:45
Symmetriaheh - how those systems work is a lot more complex than most people imagine18:46
nsnzeroi read alot - subs are an awesome feat of engineering18:47
Symmetriaheh it took 3 weeks of design work when we designed the last system I was involved in18:47
Symmetriaand that was before any sea bed surveys etc, thats just the on paper planning work18:48
Symmetria(repeater spacing, cable type calculations, deciding pre-trenching water depth etc etc)18:48
nsnzerotectonic plate movement - volcano activity - earthquakes 18:50
nsnzeroits quiet an interesting field you are in ...18:51
Symmetriaheh - my field is pretty vast - I'm kinda... in a rather unique job18:51
SymmetriaI head up technical strategy for Liquid - which includes designs - but its also far far wider than that18:52
Symmetriaheh, if anyone gives you a title that has the word strategy in it - be wary - because it means they expect you to do everything ;p18:53
Kiloshey Symmetria you know lots of rich peeps spread this link around for me please18:54
nsnzerowell its nice to meet you Symmetria18:55
Symmetriathere ya go Kilos - hope that contribution helps 19:00
Kilosty Symmetria every bit helps. most of it has been from ubuntu peeps world wide19:01
Symmetriasorry its not more - new baby and all stretching funds a bit19:02
Kilosthank you so much Symmetria that will keep the hospital quiet a bit longe19:02
Kilosjust spread the link around19:02
nsnzeroKilos: hows things going with the reverification process ?19:03
superflynsnzero: it's not really a "process"19:04
nsnzerohi superfly19:05
nsnzerosuperfly: just enquiring if any help is needed 19:05
superflynsnzero: we basically pitch up in the right IRC channel at the right time, and show the LoCo Council that we've been active the last 2 years by showing them the activities on our reverification page19:05
superflynsnzero: yes, we do. if you know of anything we can add to our reverification page, then please add it19:06
nsnzeroroger that superfly19:06
superflynsnzero: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZATeam/ReVerificationApplication201619:08
KilosMaaz seen inetpro 19:08
MaazKilos: inetpro was last seen 1 day, 23 hours, 51 minutes and 48 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2016-12-13 21:16:28 SAST], and has been online on freenode since 2016-12-10 15:14:12 SAST19:08
Kilosoh my maybe he has gone on holiday again19:08
paddatrapperKilos: or broken something :) 19:10
Kilosnono he fixes things quick19:11
Kilosmaybe family commitments atm19:11
Kiloshe has lappy and droid fone to get here if he wants19:12
Symmetriabtw - for those of you that like Android phones19:13
Symmetriathe Huawei P9 is a pretty sweet toy19:13
nsnzeroits got good specs - i have the lite  19:15
nsnzerosuperfly: the durban linux user group's link is down19:20
superflynsnzero: I didn't put it up, and I'm not sure what it is.19:20
superflyohi Symmetria19:20
nsnzerogoodnight all and take care19:33
Kilosnight nsnzero 19:34
Kilossleep tight19:34
Kiloshi kulelu88 20:25
Kiloshi dude42 dont you sleep either20:44
Kilosnight all. sleep tight20:56
=== MaNL is now known as MaNI
superflyhi kulelu8821:28
kulelu88hi superfly 21:28
dude42mmmm I do sleep21:40
dude42oh hes gone21:40
superflyhaha, that's Kilos for you, dude4221:40
dude42should probably have mentioned that I live in australia21:41
dude42its morning here21:41
superflydude42: oh, yes, good evening from the past :-)21:42
dude42utc is always the same :)21:43
superflyI once had to organise an IRC meeting with people in places like Australia, the UK and the USA. It wasn't easy finding a time suitable for everyone...21:50
dude42yeah tell me about it21:51
dude42meeting with people in france over skype is fun enough21:51
dude42I got to be up at 5 AM to suit everyone21:52
superflyI've had to do something similar21:58
superflyexcept I think I had to meet at something like 1am, with the brits 2 hours behind me and everyone else in daylight hours21:58
dude42fun times21:58

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