[04:20] <Kilos> o/
[06:28] <theblazehen> hi Kilos
[06:29] <Kilos> hi theblazehen 
[06:30] <Kilos> morning inetpro paddatrapper and others
[06:59] <superfly> good evening Kilos, theblazehen
[06:59] <superfly> and paddatrapper, who I know is lurking, I mean, working.
[07:03] <Kilos> ohi superfly 
[07:03] <superfly> good afternoon Kilos
[07:03] <Kilos> hehe
[07:07] <theblazehen> hi superfly
[07:37] <chesedo> morning Kilos theblazehen superfly and others
[07:37] <Kilos> hi chesedo 
[07:37] <theblazehen> hi chesedo
[07:37] <superfly> hi chesedo
[07:38] <chesedo> lol
[08:02] <paddatrapper> Morning Kilos, superfly, theblazehen, chesedo 
[08:02] <theblazehen> hi paddatrapper
[08:04] <Kilos> how is our kid, she hasnt said anything for days
[08:04] <Kilos> oops
[08:04] <Kilos> hehe
[08:09] <chesedo> hi paddatrapper
[08:20] <Kilos> hi nsnzero 
[08:20] <nsnzero> hi there Kilos and everyone else
[08:21] <chesedo> hi nsnzero
[08:21] <nsnzero> how is everyone ?
[08:30] <Kilos> ok ty and you?
[08:36] <nsnzero> i am doing ok
[09:09] <nsnzero> github is an excellent repository for sources 
[12:33]  * theblazehen is beginning to like emacs / spacemacs... Eveil is good enough
[12:33] <theblazehen> Pretty sure you can't get an ipython notebook in vim :)
[18:01] <Symmetria> sup
[18:02] <Symmetria> who's awake :)
[18:12] <Kilos> whats up Symmetria 
[18:14] <Symmetria> https://www.techcentral.co.za/icasa-approves-neotel-sale/70757/
[18:14] <Symmetria> boom
[18:16] <Kilos> what does that mean for za
[18:21] <Symmetria> heh might take some time
[18:21] <Symmetria> but I want Neotel to become the competitive entity it should be 
[18:21] <Kilos> ok
[18:21] <nsnzero> evening Kilos, Symmetria
[18:21] <Kilos> hi nsnzero 
[18:21] <Symmetria> its gonna be a long hard road ahead - I can see myself spending a hell of a lot of time moving back and forth between KE and ZA 
[18:21] <Symmetria> lo nsnzero
[18:22] <Symmetria> heh, kilos lol, everyone always joked on mybroadband that I shouldnt be at TENET, I should be at telkom or neotel to change the landscape there instead 
[18:22] <Symmetria> well - now they got their wish - now I just gotta deliver :) 
[18:23] <nsnzero> neotel offered a much cheaper wireless broadband deal now maybe they can be even cheaper
[18:23] <Kilos> yip well wait for you to deliver
[18:24] <Kilos> good luck
[18:24] <Kilos> keep up the good work
[18:24] <Symmetria> heh Kilos it wont happen overnight though - re-working something that size is time consuming, requires a lot of work, a lot of planning, and treading carefully
[18:24] <Kilos> thats your game
[18:24] <Kilos> you do it well
[18:26] <nsnzero> and why do we pay so much for data compared to other countries ?
[18:27] <Symmetria> nsnzero heh - the mobile operators are ripping people off 
[18:28] <MaNI> to play devils advocate have you seen how far away from t he test of the world we are compared to other countries?
[18:28] <Symmetria> and the way things are priced in ZA and the way people are amortizing is... odd
[18:28] <MaNI> that said we are also being ripped off majorly
[18:28] <MaNI> s/test/rest
[18:28] <Symmetria> MaNI again - it depends - firstly - you cannot compare ZA to Europe or the states - lets be blunt there - there are economic reasons for that
[18:29] <Symmetria> and in African context - ZA is actually a LOT better than *most* (with the exception of KE possibly)
[18:29] <Symmetria> heh - let me try and explain - in Europe and the states - what happened was that many people built many networks
[18:29] <Symmetria> hundreds of thousands of kilometers of fiber went in
[18:29] <Symmetria> at huge expense
[18:29] <Symmetria> (late 90s) 
[18:30] <Symmetria> end of the 90s happened, the big crash happened 
[18:30] <Symmetria> and companies folded like flies 
[18:30] <Symmetria> that meant all those fiber assets landed on the market at 3c to the dollar 
[18:30] <Symmetria> and the prices crashed - because the actual infrastructure costs were effectively written off in massive bankcrucpies 
[18:31] <Symmetria> that massive crash and the consolidation that followed didnt happen in Africa - we weren't exposed enough - meaning that you're still payign the cost of the actual infrastructure
[18:31] <Symmetria> instead of the fictional post bankcrupcy cost
[18:31] <MaNI> well theres also this little fact
[18:32] <MaNI> http://thetruesize.com/#?borders=1~!MTY5MTIzMTI.NzUxNDc1MQ*NDA0ODMwNg(NjUwOTI0Mw~!CONTIGUOUS_US*MTAwMjQwNzU.MjUwMjM1MTc(MTc1)MQ~!IN*NTI2NDA1MQ.Nzg2MzQyMQ)MA~!CN*OTkyMTY5Nw.NzMxNDcwNQ(MjI1)Mg~!ZA*ODcyNTQzMg.MTcxOTM1ODg)Mw
[18:32] <Symmetria> mani yes 
[18:32] <MaNI> I mean Europe is actually tiny - and very population dense, South Africa is big, spread out population, and very far away from everywhere
[18:32] <MaNI> we do tend to forget this
[18:33] <nsnzero> iirc - fiber is alot cheaper than copper - can carry more signals - better distance between repeater - no shielding
[18:34] <MaNI> but at the same time our state owned monopolistic nonsense does not help, have an absolutely worthless SNO thats only there to look pretty also doesn't help
[18:34] <MaNI> the mobile operators are just a continuation of that tradition.
[18:34] <nsnzero> and so is australia , but they have better internet 
[18:34] <MaNI> we love our monopolies here, not even limited to communications it shows in many sectors and it holds our entire country back in many ways. 
[18:36] <Symmetria> heh nsnzero actually australian internet
[18:36] <Symmetria> is not that much better 
[18:37] <Symmetria> and you're technically correct about fiber - but the costs of putting it in the ground would still blow your mind 
[18:37]  * Symmetria points out that you're spending often in excess of 15 thousand dollars for every kilometer of fiber you trench into the ground
[18:39] <Symmetria> heh building fiber networks costs hundreds of millions of dollars 
[18:39] <Symmetria> and you can't get away from that
[18:39] <Symmetria> and at that point - price is determined on how you are amortizing and what your planned ROI is 
[18:40] <Symmetria> you also need to realize that there is another point about ZA - network engineers in ZA are *expensive* 
[18:40] <Symmetria> as in - way way way way more expensive than in most of europe
[18:40] <nsnzero> 15k is really ridiculous for plastic wires - but since everything is moving towards the internet - it will eventually pay for itself 
[18:40] <Symmetria> because they are hard to find 
[18:40] <Symmetria> nsnzero heh its not plastic - its glass 
[18:40] <Symmetria> and its actually not the cost of the fiber that costs that 
[18:41] <Symmetria> its the trenching and the ducting and the labor 
[18:41] <Symmetria> the cable itself is cheap - very cheap 
[18:41] <Symmetria> heh digging up the road to put in under the ground is another story, and the other thing that costs a hell of a lot of money is the splicing 
[18:42] <Symmetria> heh, you can't just twist fiber together to join it - it requires trained people with extremely expensive hardware to join fibers 
[18:42] <nsnzero> i watched a documentary on undersea cable repairs - i think they charged 100 million dollars
[18:42] <Symmetria> and in the event of a break (someone digs it up) because its made of glass - you aren't replacing 30 centimeters of cable - in many instances yo ucan find yourself replacing 100s of meters of it - because it compound shatters
[18:43] <Symmetria> nsnzero heh, that entirely depends on a number of factors - primarily - where are the boats when the break happens
[18:43] <Symmetria> there are limited number of ships capable of affecting such repairs - if they are on the other side of the world, its gonna get really expensive to get them to the break point
[18:44] <Symmetria> then you gotta cover the cost of actually pulling the cable to the surface, the cost of the joins, security for the repair vessel, etc
[18:45] <nsnzero> yeah it was a complicated job took weeks to repair
[18:45] <Symmetria> always does :)
[18:45] <Symmetria> I've been involved in submarine system builds before - the money involved and the costs etc are immense
[18:46] <Symmetria> heh - how those systems work is a lot more complex than most people imagine
[18:47] <nsnzero> i read alot - subs are an awesome feat of engineering
[18:47] <Symmetria> heh it took 3 weeks of design work when we designed the last system I was involved in
[18:48] <Symmetria> and that was before any sea bed surveys etc, thats just the on paper planning work
[18:48] <Symmetria> (repeater spacing, cable type calculations, deciding pre-trenching water depth etc etc)
[18:50] <nsnzero> tectonic plate movement - volcano activity - earthquakes 
[18:51] <nsnzero> its quiet an interesting field you are in ...
[18:51] <Symmetria> heh - my field is pretty vast - I'm kinda... in a rather unique job
[18:52] <Symmetria> I head up technical strategy for Liquid - which includes designs - but its also far far wider than that
[18:53] <Symmetria> heh, if anyone gives you a title that has the word strategy in it - be wary - because it means they expect you to do everything ;p
[18:53] <Symmetria> lol
[18:54] <Kilos> hey Symmetria you know lots of rich peeps spread this link around for me please
[18:54] <Kilos> https://www.gofundme.com/ReunionRoadblock/
[18:55] <nsnzero> well its nice to meet you Symmetria
[19:00] <Symmetria> there ya go Kilos - hope that contribution helps 
[19:01] <Kilos> ty Symmetria every bit helps. most of it has been from ubuntu peeps world wide
[19:02] <Symmetria> sorry its not more - new baby and all stretching funds a bit
[19:02] <Kilos> thank you so much Symmetria that will keep the hospital quiet a bit longe
[19:02] <Kilos> just spread the link around
[19:03] <nsnzero> Kilos: hows things going with the reverification process ?
[19:04] <superfly> nsnzero: it's not really a "process"
[19:05] <nsnzero> hi superfly
[19:05] <nsnzero> superfly: just enquiring if any help is needed 
[19:05] <superfly> nsnzero: we basically pitch up in the right IRC channel at the right time, and show the LoCo Council that we've been active the last 2 years by showing them the activities on our reverification page
[19:06] <superfly> nsnzero: yes, we do. if you know of anything we can add to our reverification page, then please add it
[19:06] <nsnzero> roger that superfly
[19:08] <superfly> nsnzero: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZATeam/ReVerificationApplication2016
[19:08] <Kilos> Maaz seen inetpro 
[19:08] <Maaz> Kilos: inetpro was last seen 1 day, 23 hours, 51 minutes and 48 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2016-12-13 21:16:28 SAST], and has been online on freenode since 2016-12-10 15:14:12 SAST
[19:08] <Kilos> oh my maybe he has gone on holiday again
[19:10] <paddatrapper> Kilos: or broken something :) 
[19:11] <Kilos> nono he fixes things quick
[19:11] <Kilos> maybe family commitments atm
[19:12] <Kilos> he has lappy and droid fone to get here if he wants
[19:13] <Symmetria> btw - for those of you that like Android phones
[19:13] <Symmetria> the Huawei P9 is a pretty sweet toy
[19:15] <nsnzero> its got good specs - i have the lite  
[19:20] <nsnzero> superfly: the durban linux user group's link is down
[19:20] <superfly> nsnzero: I didn't put it up, and I'm not sure what it is.
[19:20] <superfly> ohi Symmetria
[19:33] <nsnzero> goodnight all and take care
[19:34] <Kilos> night nsnzero 
[19:34] <Kilos> sleep tight
[20:25] <Kilos> hi kulelu88 
[20:26] <kulelu88> hi
[20:44] <Kilos> hi dude42 dont you sleep either
[20:56] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[21:28] <superfly> hi kulelu88
[21:28] <kulelu88> hi superfly 
[21:40] <dude42> hi
[21:40] <dude42> mmmm I do sleep
[21:40] <dude42> oh hes gone
[21:40] <superfly> haha, that's Kilos for you, dude42
[21:41] <dude42> should probably have mentioned that I live in australia
[21:41] <dude42> its morning here
[21:42] <superfly> dude42: oh, yes, good evening from the past :-)
[21:43] <dude42> haha
[21:43] <dude42> utc is always the same :)
[21:50] <superfly> I once had to organise an IRC meeting with people in places like Australia, the UK and the USA. It wasn't easy finding a time suitable for everyone...
[21:51] <dude42> yeah tell me about it
[21:51] <dude42> meeting with people in france over skype is fun enough
[21:52] <dude42> I got to be up at 5 AM to suit everyone
[21:58] <superfly> I've had to do something similar
[21:58] <superfly> except I think I had to meet at something like 1am, with the brits 2 hours behind me and everyone else in daylight hours
[21:58] <dude42> fun times