[04:20] o/ [06:28] hi Kilos [06:29] hi theblazehen === Kilos is now known as inet === inet is now known as Kilos [06:30] morning inetpro paddatrapper and others [06:59] good evening Kilos, theblazehen [06:59] and paddatrapper, who I know is lurking, I mean, working. [07:03] ohi superfly [07:03] good afternoon Kilos [07:03] hehe [07:07] hi superfly [07:37] morning Kilos theblazehen superfly and others [07:37] hi chesedo [07:37] hi chesedo [07:37] hi chesedo [07:38] lol [08:02] Morning Kilos, superfly, theblazehen, chesedo [08:02] hi paddatrapper [08:04] how is our kid, she hasnt said anything for days [08:04] oops [08:04] hehe [08:09] hi paddatrapper [08:20] hi nsnzero [08:20] hi there Kilos and everyone else [08:21] hi nsnzero [08:21] how is everyone ? [08:30] ok ty and you? [08:36] i am doing ok [09:09] github is an excellent repository for sources [12:33] * theblazehen is beginning to like emacs / spacemacs... Eveil is good enough [12:33] Pretty sure you can't get an ipython notebook in vim :) [18:01] sup [18:02] who's awake :) [18:12] whats up Symmetria [18:14] https://www.techcentral.co.za/icasa-approves-neotel-sale/70757/ [18:14] boom [18:16] what does that mean for za [18:21] heh might take some time [18:21] but I want Neotel to become the competitive entity it should be [18:21] ok [18:21] evening Kilos, Symmetria [18:21] hi nsnzero [18:21] its gonna be a long hard road ahead - I can see myself spending a hell of a lot of time moving back and forth between KE and ZA [18:21] lo nsnzero [18:22] heh, kilos lol, everyone always joked on mybroadband that I shouldnt be at TENET, I should be at telkom or neotel to change the landscape there instead [18:22] well - now they got their wish - now I just gotta deliver :) [18:23] neotel offered a much cheaper wireless broadband deal now maybe they can be even cheaper [18:23] yip well wait for you to deliver [18:24] good luck [18:24] keep up the good work [18:24] heh Kilos it wont happen overnight though - re-working something that size is time consuming, requires a lot of work, a lot of planning, and treading carefully [18:24] thats your game [18:24] you do it well [18:26] and why do we pay so much for data compared to other countries ? === MaNL is now known as MaNI [18:27] nsnzero heh - the mobile operators are ripping people off [18:28] to play devils advocate have you seen how far away from t he test of the world we are compared to other countries? [18:28] and the way things are priced in ZA and the way people are amortizing is... odd [18:28] that said we are also being ripped off majorly [18:28] s/test/rest [18:28] MaNI again - it depends - firstly - you cannot compare ZA to Europe or the states - lets be blunt there - there are economic reasons for that [18:29] and in African context - ZA is actually a LOT better than *most* (with the exception of KE possibly) [18:29] heh - let me try and explain - in Europe and the states - what happened was that many people built many networks [18:29] hundreds of thousands of kilometers of fiber went in [18:29] at huge expense [18:29] (late 90s) [18:30] end of the 90s happened, the big crash happened [18:30] and companies folded like flies [18:30] that meant all those fiber assets landed on the market at 3c to the dollar [18:30] and the prices crashed - because the actual infrastructure costs were effectively written off in massive bankcrucpies [18:31] that massive crash and the consolidation that followed didnt happen in Africa - we weren't exposed enough - meaning that you're still payign the cost of the actual infrastructure [18:31] instead of the fictional post bankcrupcy cost [18:31] well theres also this little fact [18:32] http://thetruesize.com/#?borders=1~!MTY5MTIzMTI.NzUxNDc1MQ*NDA0ODMwNg(NjUwOTI0Mw~!CONTIGUOUS_US*MTAwMjQwNzU.MjUwMjM1MTc(MTc1)MQ~!IN*NTI2NDA1MQ.Nzg2MzQyMQ)MA~!CN*OTkyMTY5Nw.NzMxNDcwNQ(MjI1)Mg~!ZA*ODcyNTQzMg.MTcxOTM1ODg)Mw [18:32] mani yes [18:32] I mean Europe is actually tiny - and very population dense, South Africa is big, spread out population, and very far away from everywhere [18:32] we do tend to forget this [18:33] iirc - fiber is alot cheaper than copper - can carry more signals - better distance between repeater - no shielding [18:34] but at the same time our state owned monopolistic nonsense does not help, have an absolutely worthless SNO thats only there to look pretty also doesn't help [18:34] the mobile operators are just a continuation of that tradition. [18:34] and so is australia , but they have better internet [18:34] we love our monopolies here, not even limited to communications it shows in many sectors and it holds our entire country back in many ways. [18:36] heh nsnzero actually australian internet [18:36] is not that much better [18:37] and you're technically correct about fiber - but the costs of putting it in the ground would still blow your mind [18:37] * Symmetria points out that you're spending often in excess of 15 thousand dollars for every kilometer of fiber you trench into the ground [18:39] heh building fiber networks costs hundreds of millions of dollars [18:39] and you can't get away from that [18:39] and at that point - price is determined on how you are amortizing and what your planned ROI is [18:40] you also need to realize that there is another point about ZA - network engineers in ZA are *expensive* [18:40] as in - way way way way more expensive than in most of europe [18:40] 15k is really ridiculous for plastic wires - but since everything is moving towards the internet - it will eventually pay for itself [18:40] because they are hard to find [18:40] nsnzero heh its not plastic - its glass [18:40] and its actually not the cost of the fiber that costs that [18:41] its the trenching and the ducting and the labor [18:41] the cable itself is cheap - very cheap [18:41] heh digging up the road to put in under the ground is another story, and the other thing that costs a hell of a lot of money is the splicing [18:42] heh, you can't just twist fiber together to join it - it requires trained people with extremely expensive hardware to join fibers [18:42] i watched a documentary on undersea cable repairs - i think they charged 100 million dollars [18:42] and in the event of a break (someone digs it up) because its made of glass - you aren't replacing 30 centimeters of cable - in many instances yo ucan find yourself replacing 100s of meters of it - because it compound shatters [18:43] nsnzero heh, that entirely depends on a number of factors - primarily - where are the boats when the break happens [18:43] there are limited number of ships capable of affecting such repairs - if they are on the other side of the world, its gonna get really expensive to get them to the break point [18:44] then you gotta cover the cost of actually pulling the cable to the surface, the cost of the joins, security for the repair vessel, etc [18:45] yeah it was a complicated job took weeks to repair [18:45] always does :) [18:45] I've been involved in submarine system builds before - the money involved and the costs etc are immense [18:46] heh - how those systems work is a lot more complex than most people imagine [18:47] i read alot - subs are an awesome feat of engineering [18:47] heh it took 3 weeks of design work when we designed the last system I was involved in [18:48] and that was before any sea bed surveys etc, thats just the on paper planning work [18:48] (repeater spacing, cable type calculations, deciding pre-trenching water depth etc etc) [18:50] tectonic plate movement - volcano activity - earthquakes [18:51] its quiet an interesting field you are in ... [18:51] heh - my field is pretty vast - I'm kinda... in a rather unique job [18:52] I head up technical strategy for Liquid - which includes designs - but its also far far wider than that [18:53] heh, if anyone gives you a title that has the word strategy in it - be wary - because it means they expect you to do everything ;p [18:53] lol [18:54] hey Symmetria you know lots of rich peeps spread this link around for me please [18:54] https://www.gofundme.com/ReunionRoadblock/ [18:55] well its nice to meet you Symmetria [19:00] there ya go Kilos - hope that contribution helps [19:01] ty Symmetria every bit helps. most of it has been from ubuntu peeps world wide [19:02] sorry its not more - new baby and all stretching funds a bit [19:02] thank you so much Symmetria that will keep the hospital quiet a bit longe [19:02] just spread the link around [19:03] Kilos: hows things going with the reverification process ? [19:04] nsnzero: it's not really a "process" [19:05] hi superfly [19:05] superfly: just enquiring if any help is needed [19:05] nsnzero: we basically pitch up in the right IRC channel at the right time, and show the LoCo Council that we've been active the last 2 years by showing them the activities on our reverification page [19:06] nsnzero: yes, we do. if you know of anything we can add to our reverification page, then please add it [19:06] roger that superfly [19:08] nsnzero: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZATeam/ReVerificationApplication2016 [19:08] Maaz seen inetpro [19:08] Kilos: inetpro was last seen 1 day, 23 hours, 51 minutes and 48 seconds ago in #ubuntu-za on freenode [2016-12-13 21:16:28 SAST], and has been online on freenode since 2016-12-10 15:14:12 SAST [19:08] oh my maybe he has gone on holiday again [19:10] Kilos: or broken something :) [19:11] nono he fixes things quick [19:11] maybe family commitments atm [19:12] he has lappy and droid fone to get here if he wants [19:13] btw - for those of you that like Android phones [19:13] the Huawei P9 is a pretty sweet toy [19:15] its got good specs - i have the lite [19:20] superfly: the durban linux user group's link is down [19:20] nsnzero: I didn't put it up, and I'm not sure what it is. [19:20] ohi Symmetria [19:33] goodnight all and take care [19:34] night nsnzero [19:34] sleep tight [20:25] hi kulelu88 [20:26] hi [20:44] hi dude42 dont you sleep either [20:56] night all. sleep tight === MaNL is now known as MaNI [21:28] hi kulelu88 [21:28] hi superfly [21:40] hi [21:40] mmmm I do sleep [21:40] oh hes gone [21:40] haha, that's Kilos for you, dude42 [21:41] should probably have mentioned that I live in australia [21:41] its morning here [21:42] dude42: oh, yes, good evening from the past :-) [21:43] haha [21:43] utc is always the same :) [21:50] I once had to organise an IRC meeting with people in places like Australia, the UK and the USA. It wasn't easy finding a time suitable for everyone... [21:51] yeah tell me about it [21:51] meeting with people in france over skype is fun enough [21:52] I got to be up at 5 AM to suit everyone [21:58] I've had to do something similar [21:58] except I think I had to meet at something like 1am, with the brits 2 hours behind me and everyone else in daylight hours [21:58] fun times