[03:47] <waltman> now trying to make a bootable flashdrive of ubuntu-16.10-desktop-amd64.iso ...
[03:50] <r00t^2> waltman: first rule- just use dd, don't bother with a gui program. many of them don't play nicely with hybrid ISO images
[04:09] <waltman> I tried using dd and it didn't want to boot off my flashdrive.
[04:10] <r00t^2> did you hold b while booting?
[04:10] <jthan> it's a mac?
[04:11] <r00t^2> it's waltman
[04:11] <waltman> I didn't know I needed to. The bios is set to boot off a usb cdrom as its second choice.
[04:11] <r00t^2> i'd be surprised if it wasn't
[04:11] <jthan> usb cdrom != usb flash drive
[04:12] <r00t^2> iirc, c is the boot from c, b is the boot quick-select
[04:12] <waltman> I'm making it using a different flash drive using the mac app ubuntu recommends.
[04:12] <waltman> ah
[04:12] <r00t^2> s/from\ c/from\ cd/
[04:15] <r00t^2> i'm guessing https://help.ubuntu.com/community/How%20to%20install%20Ubuntu%20on%20MacBook%20using%20USB%20Stick ?
[04:15] <r00t^2> where it says "UNetbootin for Mac OS X can be used to automate the process of extracting the Ubuntu ISO file to USB, and making the USB drive bootable. The resulting USB drive, however, can be booted on PCs only. If attempting to make a USB drive that can be booted from a Mac, follow the instructions below. "
[04:15] <r00t^2> ?
[04:17] <waltman> Why would I want to boot it from a Mac?
[04:18] <waltman> f12 brings up a book menu. But selecting USC-CDROM failed.
[04:18] <r00t^2> wait, this isn't mac? since when do you use pc hardware?
[04:20] <waltman> Why do you think I go to PLUG meetings if I don't also have a linux box at home?
[04:20] <jthan> lol is that a requirement? Must have linux SOMEWHERE to attend?
[04:21] <r00t^2> i've only ever seen you talk about mac
[04:21] <waltman> At any rate, I've been running linux servers at home since the 90s, long before I bought my first mac.
[04:21] <waltman> And I just built a shiny new box today.
[04:24] <r00t^2> OH. well then. is it bios or uefi?
[04:25] <r00t^2> i see you mention BIOS a couple times, but a lot of people call the UEFI system that
[04:25] <waltman> I have no idea. I see an EFI setting.
[04:25] <jthan> You should use uefi if the board supports it
[04:25] <waltman> It was booting off of $friend's flash drive at his house.
[04:28] <r00t^2> okay. do you see a boot order? note that by default, UEFI boards are set to UEFI mode, not legacy (BIOS) mode
[04:29] <r00t^2> and with those, you have to have a bootable USB (with an image/filesystem on it that supports UEFI) inserted in the slot and THEN boot the computer, otherwise you won't be able to select it in the boot order most likely
[04:30] <waltman> Did I mention this was working at my friend's house with the same settings?
[04:31] <r00t^2> yes, but if you remove a USB from a UEFI system, it won't try to boot from it.
[04:31] <waltman> I'm really tired and I don't feel like debugging which of the 1000 settings in the bios is messed up. I'll deal with it tomorrow.
[04:31] <waltman> BTW this is a big reason why people buy macs. There's none of this crap to deal with.
[04:31] <r00t^2> it's not a setting that's messed up, you can't tell UEFI to poll a device that isn't there, so it doesn't try
[04:32] <r00t^2> macs are EFI as well.
[04:32] <waltman> I don't understand what you're saying
[04:32] <jthan> you're telling it to use USB cd-rom. you said that. but that's not a flash drive.
[04:32] <jthan> it's different
[04:32] <jthan> usb cd-rom says "if you have an optical device plugged in to usb, use it"
[04:32] <waltman> What should I tell it to use?
[04:32] <jthan> You have to plug your imaged flash drive in
[04:32] <jthan> and go to the boot order
[04:32] <jthan> and select that flash drive
[04:32] <jthan> but like r00t^2 is saying, if you don't have it plugged in at boot, it won't even see it
[04:32] <waltman> So a usb flash drive formatted as an iso doesn't look like a cdrom?
[04:33] <jthan> no.
[04:33] <jthan> not at all.
[04:33] <waltman> Yes, of course I have it plugged in when I'm booting.
[04:33] <jthan> the actual name of the device/manufacturer should show up in the boot list
[04:33] <jthan> like "PNY USB 2.0"
[04:33] <jthan> or something generic like that, perhaps
[04:34] <waltman> It's possibly "LS120", but that didn't work either.
[04:35] <jthan> ls120 is a floppy drive, no?
[04:35] <jthan> lol
[04:35] <jthan> r00t^2: ^?
[04:37] <r00t^2> why would you think it's a floppy? it could be a floppy, it could be a usb, but i'd presume waltman would hear the floppy drive clicking and clacking when it tried to read a disk. also, i assume waltman's new computer doesn't have a floppy drive because it's obsolete
[04:37] <jthan> lol
[04:37] <r00t^2> (unless you're the gubmint, heyooo)
[04:37] <waltman> I think USB-FDD is probably the "floppy"
[04:38] <r00t^2> waltman: what are all of the devices you see listed that you can boot from?
[04:38] <jthan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperDisk
[04:38] <jthan> I'm not crazy
[04:39] <waltman> LS120, hard disk, cdrom, zip, usb-fdd, usb-zip, usb-cdrom, usb-hdd, legacy lan
[04:39] <r00t^2> jthan: superdisk isn't floppy, it's a different format
[04:40] <jthan> wellw /e
[04:40] <jthan> same shit
[04:40] <waltman> I'm re-dd'ing my original flashdrive from my old linux box
[04:40] <waltman> If this still doesn't work I'm going to bed.
[04:40] <jthan> are you dd'ing on a mac?
[04:41] <jthan> you were, but now you're using the other box
[04:41] <waltman> 23:40 < waltman> I'm re-dd'ing my original flashdrive from my old linux box
[04:41] <r00t^2> yeah, this doesn't sound like UEFI if you're getting all those devices listed and not connected. in that case, dding should work since it's a hybrid iso. the question is if it supports BIOS.
[04:44] <waltman> With this flash drive, created with dd from an actual linux box, I'm still getting DISK BOOT FAILURE.
[04:44] <waltman> I'm going to bed. Hopefully tomorrow $friend will suggest something simple I'm forgetting to do.
[04:45] <waltman> my command: sudo dd bs=4M if=ubuntu-16.10-desktop-amd64.iso of=/dev/sdb
[04:47] <waltman> that should be bootable, right?
[04:47] <r00t^2> should be
[04:47] <r00t^2> yep
[04:47] <jthan> yeah, assuming your iso is okay
[04:48] <waltman> I downloaded it from the ubuntu torrent site
[04:48] <jthan> Did you sum it?
[04:48] <waltman> rtorrent does a checksum when it finishes.
[04:48] <jthan> ah okay.
[04:48] <waltman> let me doublecheck...
[04:48] <jthan> even if your block size is wrong it should be fine.
[04:49] <waltman> checksums match http://releases.ubuntu.com/16.10/MD5SUMS
[04:51] <jthan> You might even try the usb-hdd option
[04:51] <jthan> maybe that's how it sees it
[04:51] <jthan> Could be an issue with legacy mode turned on via bios though
[04:51] <waltman> I already tried it.
[04:51] <waltman> zzz &
[10:59] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
[12:50] <icey> ahoy
[13:21] <JonathanD> HOwdy.
[14:10]  * waltman is sad
[14:36]  * teddy-dbear hugs waltman and gives him chocolate :)
[15:40] <waltman> teddy-dbear: awww :)
[15:41] <waltman> output of fdisk -l for the new flash drives I tried to make bootable: https://gist.github.com/waltman/45f9ea0d081bcb9f29e2304882f17d91
[15:48] <jedijf> waltman: use unetbootin(or en) not sure; it just works
[15:49] <waltman> That's what I tried with the second drive!
[15:50] <waltman> Though it's got a bug on the mac where it won't even present the drive as an option if it's not FAT*
[15:51] <waltman> Once I'd run dd on the first drive I tried to unetbootin it from my mac but it wouldn't let me!
[15:54] <waltman> also… 22:50 < r00t^2> waltman: first rule- just use dd, don't bother with a gui program. many of them don't play nicely with hybrid ISO images
[15:55] <jedijf> i saw that - i make tons of sticks for events....unetbootin - format the stick and redo - just works
[15:56] <waltman> How do I format the stick?
[15:56] <jedijf> i think unet provides that option if it sees something living there already
[15:57] <waltman> And can I run unetbootin from linux?
[15:57] <jedijf> but not sure about mac unetb - i have used on linux and windows
[15:57] <jedijf> yes to linux
[15:57] <jedijf> or from your power lab windows
[15:57] <waltman> Does it have an option to trash whatever's on the drive?
[15:57] <jedijf> yes
[15:58] <waltman> I was going to do that, but my train and the following train were both cancelled so I'm stuck at home today.
[15:58] <jedijf> linux from home
[15:58] <swift110> hey all
[15:59] <jthan> waltman: yeah it's because you're trying to use something formatted for EFI on your bios.
[15:59] <waltman> jthan: the second drive doesn't say EFI and it doesn't work, either.
[15:59] <jthan> but also your dd would be more efficient if you did dd bs=512b based on that output.
[16:00] <jthan> anyway..
[16:00] <jthan> I really think if you change your motherboard settings to use uefi instead of bios/legacy mode it's going to work
[16:02] <waltman> There's an option "EFI CD/DVD Boot Option" that's set to EFI
[16:03] <jthan> should be on the main menu of the BIOS, likely.
[16:03] <jthan> but I don't think that's the one. I can bring mine up in a second, but it's Dell so probably not helpful.
[16:04] <waltman> There's not an obvious option on the main menu.
[16:05] <waltman> "MB Intelligent Tweaker", "Standard CMOS Features", "Advanced BIO Features", "Integrated Peripherals", "Power Management Setup", "PnP/PCI Configurations", "PC Health Status"
[16:07] <jthan> what kind of motherboard/BIOS?
[16:10] <waltman> Gigabyte 781MT
[16:10] <waltman> Award software bios
[16:13]  * jthan can't seem to find anything pertinent 
[16:53] <waltman> So.
[16:53] <waltman> Turns out.
[16:54] <waltman> I was trying to boot off of one of the USB3 ports on the front of the case. I tried plugging it into a USB2 port on the back and it booted! Only…
[16:54] <jthan> Only...
[16:54] <waltman> I ended up getting a message "Input signal out of range. Change settings to 1920x1080 - 60Hz"
[16:54] <jthan> lol well that's clearly not related to the flash drive anymore
[16:55] <waltman> Maybe I should try server instead of desktop?
[16:55] <jthan> nah, probably just need to add a param to the boot string in the grub menu
[16:55] <jthan> assuming you actually saw the grub menu?
[16:55] <waltman> No, it just started booting.
[16:59] <waltman> this is on 16.10 desktop
[16:59] <waltman> $friend is suggesting I try 16.4.
[17:01] <jthan> Well, i don't know that it'd be much different. Can you just change your monitor to what it's telling you?
[17:01] <waltman> I thought that message was from my monitor!
[17:02] <jthan> it probably is
[17:02] <jthan> but if you cna change the refresh rate or w/e of your monitor you might have better luck
[17:06] <waltman> To what?
[17:07] <jthan> Something higher/lower depending which way you think the output is from you rcomputer
[17:07] <jthan> or try to use like an autodetect after booting
[17:08] <waltman> Something in the ubuntu installer is trying to set the signal to something my monitor doesn't like. My monitor says what IT likes, but it doesn't say what it's being asked to use. So you're suggesting I just start randomly changing my monitor settings — that have worked for years on other boxes, and that I'd like to keep for them — until it works?
[17:08] <jthan> I mean, usually there's a button to just autoadjust
[17:09] <jthan> do you have a gpu in your systme?
[17:09] <jthan> what's its default output?
[17:09] <jthan> Do you also have onboard graphics you could just use for now?
[17:09] <waltman> jthan: You're not being very helpful.
[17:10] <waltman> What's my GPU's default output?
[17:10] <jthan> Yes, does it have a refresh rate that it's defaulting to?
[17:10] <waltman> I don't have the slightest idea. I'd have to dig through manuals.
[17:10] <jthan> Okay, then do you have onboard graphics also? Part of your motherboard?
[17:11] <jedijf> f4 f6 one of those will get to boot options on live
[17:12] <waltman> I already tried plugging in my old VGI cable into it. If you've got a GPU installed, it disables the onboard graphics.
[17:12] <jedijf> add nomodeset to boot line via 'e' in grub
[17:12] <jedijf> one of the f's (4 or 6) will have that has a boot parameter also
[17:12] <jedijf> getting closer
[17:13] <waltman> How do I add anything to grub?
[17:13] <jedijf> f6
[17:13] <jedijf> pick nomodeset
[17:13] <waltman> When do I press that?
[17:13] <jedijf> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions
[17:13] <jedijf> see here
[17:14] <jedijf> or i would just say *now* push it hurry
[17:14] <paden> waltman: were you given an option to do a text install at all?
[17:14] <jedijf> paden he should be good now - that link has pictures
[17:16] <jedijf> paden: also why we should do installfests - the company of other
[17:16] <jedijf> s
[17:16] <paden> AH, pictures. the best help a linux installer needs.
[17:16] <jedijf> well, i mean on the live boot screen the F's are all lined up on the bottom
[17:16] <jedijf> but
[17:16] <jedijf> static photo doesn't timeout
[17:17] <jedijf> F6 doesn't say "Walt push here" <-- /me files a feature request
[17:18] <waltman> That's not anything close to what the F6 screen looks like for me.
[17:18] <waltman> That page is very out of date.
[17:18] <jedijf> you can also use 'e' to edit the grub line(s) add nomodeset then f10
[17:19] <jedijf> In addition to displaying preset boot options, pressing the F6 key also opens the "Boot Options" line for manual editing once the popup window is closed. (See next section).
[17:19] <paden> Hold down ctrl when the system is booting, that will send you to the grub menu.
[17:19] <paden> Then hit e, find the line with your OS, add nomodeset to the end.
[17:21] <waltman> Oh, you've got to hit F6 from a different place to get that screen. Sigh.
[17:24] <waltman> I checked that box, AND I added nomodset to the boot parameters it listed. But I'm STILL getting that message about the input signal out of range.
[17:25] <waltman> I've got real work to do, and this is going to suck up all my time for the rest of the day. I'm going to shut it down for now, and put things back the way I had them until tonight.
[17:25] <waltman> this is why people buy prebuilt machines!
[17:26] <paden> waltman: not sure why it isn't picking up the right display. What kind of display is it? Just a 1920x1080 screen? Or a 4k?
[17:26] <paden> What kind of GPU is in the system?
[17:27] <jedijf> walt then put vga=791 on boot line thats 1024x768  moven
[17:32] <waltman> It's an HP LV2311 monitor
[17:32] <waltman> I'll try that tonight. As I just said, I unplugged everything for now so I can work on $dayjob.
[17:32] <jedijf> k
[17:33] <waltman> It's a boring old display. Nothing fancy.
[17:33] <jedijf> o 791 is safe
[17:33] <waltman> It's sort of reassuring to see that this process hasn't gotten any more user friendly since I last tried to do it a decade ago.
[17:34] <paden> It's odd that you're having an issue.
[17:34] <jedijf> just so many variables/config/hardwares to manage
[17:34] <paden> Right.
[17:34] <waltman> For some reason I thought ubuntu was the simple user friendly way to insall linux!
[17:34] <paden> waltman: it is?
[17:34] <jedijf> it kinda is
[17:35] <paden> I can have ubuntu up and running in a few minutes.
[17:35] <jedijf> those f6 dropdown parameters cover most
[17:35] <jthan> yeah usually it just works
[17:35] <waltman> That f6 dropdown screen I was just on was a complete mess.
[17:35] <jedijf> but again, reenforces that we still need installfests
[17:35] <jedijf> the company of others helps
[17:35] <paden> jedijf: agreed.
[17:35] <paden> We need more.
[17:35] <jedijf> so waltman thank you!
[17:36] <jthan> would be fun to do a sysadministrivia sponsored one :-p
[17:36] <jedijf> the best was the fosscon with ntr
[17:36] <jedijf> that's a challenge
[17:36] <paden> There's an idea.
[17:36] <paden> jedijf: yeah....
[17:36] <waltman> I apparently was hitting f6 on the wrong screen.
[17:38] <waltman> If you hit F1 you get a menu where you can hit F6 to see special boot parameters. It doesn't say anything about nomodset.
[17:39] <jedijf> no biggee - didn't work try the vga=791 later and keep us posted
[17:39] <waltman> also https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions doesn't say what nomodset does
[17:40] <jedijf> bios mode
[17:40] <jedijf> no drivers
[17:40] <jedijf> don't set video drivers use the bios certified settings
[17:41] <jedijf> but could still wig out when X loads
[17:41] <jedijf> you know bulletproof x
[17:45] <waltman> I've got a fancy nvidia card in this box. That could be causing the problems.
[17:47] <jedijf> vga= should get you started then the open or other drivers can be installed
[17:48] <waltman> ok
[17:50] <jedijf> get booted then we'll go through the 'additional drivers' stuff if needed