eylulhi everyone18:55
eyluloh wait. *fixes the alarm*18:56
OvenWerksI will be here it a minute19:20
eyluloh ok19:23
eylulOvenwerks: let me know when you are here? :) 19:31
OvenWerksI is, but is there anyone else?19:32
eylulI think it is 2 of us19:33
OvenWerksshort meeting then ;)19:34
eylulunless you want to use the time to work on controls. (I am also happen to get through updates and be done)19:34
eylul(english fail.)19:34
eylulhappen -> happy19:34
OvenWerksAre you going to recrod the meeting?19:34
OvenWerks(finger fail)19:35
eylulthere apparently is a #undo... 19:35
eylulwell of it is 5 past lets get this thing started. 19:35
eylul#startmeeting "UbuntuStudio weekly check-in"     19:35
meetingologyMeeting started Tue Dec 20 19:35:52 2016 UTC.  The chair is eylul. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.19:35
meetingologyAvailable commands: action commands idea info link nick19:35
eylul#chair ovenwerks19:36
meetingologyCurrent chairs: eylul ovenwerks19:36
eylul#topic Welcome and Agenda19:36
eylul#subtopic meetingology19:36
eylulWe are using meetingology this week. 19:36
eylulWhen giving updates please use #done: tasks completed e.g. "#done finished system tab for ubuntu-controls" 19:36
eylulWhen giving a summary of a situation or giving additional context use #info tag: e.g. "#info in last release we removed this package because of a bug19:36
eylulWhen putting an idea when discussing an item use: "#idea how about we make the icons blue"19:36
eylulIf there is a place where you need input/help from another team member: "#help ardour backport needs more testing before the release candidate is posted"     19:36
eylul#subtopic Agenda19:36
eylulOvenwerks: ok so, short meeting or work hour?19:37
OvenWerksFor the record, Len has found out that the current -controls has serious limits to only being able to setup system kinds of things and not User-session things19:37
OvenWerksShort meeting first.19:37
eylul#topic Team Updates19:37
eylul#info: Len has found out that the current -controls has serious limits to only being able to setup system kinds of things and not User-session things19:38
OvenWerksJust so others can look at the minutes and see where things are.19:38
OvenWerksTherefore controls will have to be redesigned to move ahead in the session setup kinds of things like audio setup or writing tablet setup.19:39
OvenWerksI have really done not much more since we discussed this a few days ago.19:40
* OvenWerks has built a case for his mandolin instead...19:40
eylulthat sounds fun. I still owe you a gui/interaction design for wacom end. Its been a week a few weeks of too many deadlines. 19:40
OvenWerks-controls will need to run as the user and use pkexec for just setting system things rether than to run the whole utility.19:41
eylul#info you have any other updates, before we do dive into the controls details.? (I do have 2 quick updates to add to the record then we can discuss controls a bit more in details) 19:42
meetingologyRemoving item from minutes: INFO19:42
eylul#info -controls will need to run as the user and use pkexec for just setting system things rether than to run the whole utility.19:42
OvenWerksTo make this work, -controls has been broken into two parts, the GUI/user side and the system side. Right now the User side is in python and the system side sh19:43
OvenWerksI think thats it.19:43
eylulok, I do actually want to ask you more about this. let me just copy paste other updates of the week.19:43
eylulbefore we get to it19:43
eylul#help Ross has a blog post up on how to help out with testing, daily isos. Please help out when you can. (more information on mailing list)19:44
eylul#help CFHowlett has posted the holiday art event to facebook. Feel free to share your art and works done in ubuntustudio in the group or page. 19:46
eylul#topic Controls19:46
eylulsorry 19:46
eylulok so 19:46
eylulwasn't there a reply in ML about not using pkexec?19:46
eylul*is somewhat confused* 19:47
OvenWerksit would depend on who made the comment.19:47
OvenWerkspkexec is the normal way of elevating a user's status in Ubuntu.19:48
OvenWerksgksu should not be used19:49
eylul*nods* because then everything is executed as root, and that causes problems with the things that needs to be run as user, like the audio issue you described earlier19:50
OvenWerksRight. SO the proper way is to run the GUI as suer and then run the system parts as pkexec <system_program-program>19:51
eylul*nods* 19:51
eylulout of curiosity, is there a reason why system side scripts are written in sh, rather than python as well, or just more convenient for you? (I have no objection, just curious)19:52
OvenWerksAll of the software installers use pkexec behind things19:52
OvenWerkssh for system scripts are well understood. I think it will be simpler19:53
OvenWerksI suppose we should matbe try it both ways  and see which looks best. But I think it will be sh first... just because I have part of it done.19:55
eylulah, well we can always move it to python, later19:55
eylulI was just thinking more for consistency and updatability. :) 19:56
eylulbut ok :) Awesome19:57
OvenWerksThere will probably be more sh bits than python bits... but GUOs are not so easy in sh...19:57
eylulwell I am all for using toolkits for GUI19:57
OvenWerksYa. SO the python bit is what people will see, but /etc/init.d/ubuntustudio is sh like the rest of the files in there.19:58
eylulah I see what you mean19:59
OvenWerksThere will be an Audio starter that will be sh, there is the system setup in sh19:59
OvenWerksActually, I might be best to say session starter rather than Audio starter as there may be other things besides just audio that gets set at session start if you have a tablet.20:00
eylulactually I would think20:00
eylulthere would be a session starter, but then each script would be its own?20:01
eylulrather than piling everything into same file20:01
eyluljust my 2 cents at least20:01
OvenWerkscase: tablet; do stuff?20:01
eylul(sorry I couldn't parse that)20:03
OvenWerksBasically I am saying that a part of the script can be set aside for different things rather than having lots of files.20:03
eylulyeah but keeping it modular can make it easier to fix and update it later20:03
eylulsh scripts become quite spagetti as it is, in my experience :D20:03
OvenWerksWe don't run the tablet part if there is none... we don't run jack if the user doesn't want it.20:03
OvenWerksPossibly yes.20:03
eylulanother reason for keeping them separate20:04
eylulI mean it is not a huge issue either way, but just thinking down the line when somebody wants to dig into this and fix a bug, that they can reasonably understand what is going on20:04
eyluland the whole idea of tablet not being there is very likely to happen. (some people do keep their tablet on all the time, but not everybody, so actually handling hot plugging will be nice if we can do that eventually)20:05
OvenWerksI want to do something reasonable with hot plugging various things in.20:06
OvenWerksFor me the audio device hot plug is real important :), but I realize there is a lot more stuff out there than that.20:07
eylulwacoms are a big one. 20:08
eylulsome people have external video cards but I am not familiar with the workflow for those20:08
eylulanything else is kind of reasonably handled20:08
eylullike external screens. 20:09
eylulin terms of the tablet settings, do we want to split it off to its own package?20:10
eylulon one hand: its nice to have it all in same place, in other hand, a wacom tablet setup utility would be useful to other distros as well20:10
OvenWerksWhat if you had One of https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/ca/products/intensitypro4k and plug another cammera in?20:10
* OvenWerks comes from a broadcast background20:11
eylulno we need to pool our experiences in20:11
eylulthat is a good question20:11
eylulok so *makes a list of things to hot plug*20:12
OvenWerksI am thinking that live use of video inputs is on it's way as the computer power is getting there.20:12
eylulwell isn't it already done?20:13
eylulor do you mean doing so without external cards?20:13
OvenWerksIn the TV world it is called a switcher. But there is normally a fader of some sort with effected fades.20:13
OvenWerksThere are video switchers in sw, not very many, not very advanced20:14
OvenWerksmost are built around firewire inputs.20:14
OvenWerksMy DSLR has an HDMI out, no firewire, not really any USB either.20:14
OvenWerksI don't think HDMI inputs are yet well delt with in the computer world20:15
OvenWerks(maybe content providers don't want that?)20:16
eylulthere was blocks for a while on audio input for that reason20:16
eylulwhich was a pain because I was using my mic input to record stuff, so possible, but I assume it is because most consumer items don't have an HDMI out20:16
OvenWerksthere still is for somethings. spdif will only allow so many copies if it is not "original"20:17
eylulI can't think of anything I use that requires a video/image in, except my cellphone/camera to take picture via tether, which works fine via usb20:17
OvenWerkslots of consumer stuff has hdmi out, almost all computers and DVD player do.20:17
eylulHDMI out yes20:18
OvenWerksHDMI in is a screen only thing :)20:18
eylulbut usually you need HDMI outs to connect to screens and projectors on daily use, not another computer20:18
eylul(although the question does come up once in a while :D)20:18
OvenWerksI don't think there are dvd recorders with them.20:18
OvenWerksFor content creation hdmi in is useful20:19
eylulno now that you are explaining this, I am realizing it is20:19
eylulok so back to the topic20:21
eylulcapture cards, graphic tablets, audio cards/microphones etc, possibly video cards (?)20:21
eylul(also 10 minutes to wrapping up the meeting, we are almost at the hour)20:21
OvenWerksvideo cards are normally installed withy power off, but there are USB/thunderbolt things too.20:22
eylulI see20:22
OvenWerksI am wondering what happens though with an internal video card when a video signal is plugged in or removed. Because that is detectable.20:23
OvenWerksThere can be more than one video stream... and up to 8 or 16 audio streams too.20:23
* eylul has no clue20:23
OvenWerksAnother whole topic would be sync  ;)20:24
OvenWerksAll video has sync20:24
OvenWerks(which is why it is detectable)20:24
eylulwhy do I have a sinking feeling that we will need outside help to test some of these things?20:26
eylul(unless you do have tools to test some of the video/capture stuff)20:27
OvenWerkshttps://www.blackmagicdesign.com/ca/products/decklink/techspecs/W-DLK-06 is the one I was looking for... it is actually within my range :)20:27
OvenWerksIt would allow me to have live video from my DSLR to linux.20:28
eylulwait.. you are not going to buy that JUST to test controls right?20:28
OvenWerksIt would work with a lot more than controls. But I also have a son who is interested in movie making20:29
OvenWerksWe have tried to do some stop motion animation with just teathering sw. which has been ok too.20:29
eylulI think I remember the results of that :D20:29
eylulif you have a cellphone with a good camera20:30
eylulyou could try connecting that via usb and see what happens?20:30
eylulactually, now I am curious. can I tether video from my cellphone...20:30
OvenWerksI could use a webcam for some things... but someone needs to clear of their table so they have room to do things :P20:30
OvenWerksYou may be able to use your cellpohne as a webcam.20:31
eylulwell my cellphone has a higher resolution than a webcam20:31
OvenWerksFrom what I have seen, webcam latency is over 100ms.20:31
OvenWerksUsing V4L20:32
OvenWerksI don't know if that can be adjusted, or is a part of USB or...20:32
eylulV4L == VLC?20:32
OvenWerksV4L - Video 4 linux20:32
eylulyeah well one way to find out20:32
OvenWerksIt is the standard video driver20:32
OvenWerks(you prolly have it)20:33
eylulwell something for me to try20:34
eylulanyhow shall we wrap up the meeting?20:34
eylul#topic Closing20:35
eylul#info no meeting next week, happy holidays! We'll meet in the new year20:35
meetingologyMeeting ended Tue Dec 20 20:35:30 2016 UTC.  20:35
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntustudio-devel/2016/ubuntustudio-devel.2016-12-20-19.35.moin.txt20:35
OvenWerksLibv4l seems to be a part of the kernel these days20:39
eylulI see20:40
eylulyeah I have no idea. it is something I will have to figure out through, I am currently working on a couple of project that might require it20:41
eylulanyhow I am off. happy holidays?20:41
OvenWerksI don't know what utilities we have to deal with it though...20:41
OvenWerksHappy hollidays to you as well.20:41
OvenWerksYf be calling me too20:41
eylul(I am not mainly not sure if the computer can see cellphone as a video device. *is failing currently at doing that)20:41
OvenWerkseylul: an android (er iphone) will look like a mtp device (aka smart storage device). Probably if it was rooted you could run something to make it look like something else (I Know it is possible to get them to look like network devices)23:35

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