[18:55] <eylul> hi everyone
[18:56] <eylul> oh wait. *fixes the alarm*
[19:20] <OvenWerks> I will be here it a minute
[19:23] <eylul> oh ok
[19:31] <eylul> Ovenwerks: let me know when you are here? :) 
[19:32] <OvenWerks> I is, but is there anyone else?
[19:33] <eylul> I think it is 2 of us
[19:34] <OvenWerks> short meeting then ;)
[19:34] <eylul> yup
[19:34] <eylul> unless you want to use the time to work on controls. (I am also happen to get through updates and be done)
[19:34] <eylul> (english fail.)
[19:34] <eylul> happen -> happy
[19:34] <OvenWerks> Are you going to recrod the meeting?
[19:34] <eylul> yep
[19:35] <OvenWerks> (finger fail)
[19:35] <eylul> there apparently is a #undo... 
[19:35] <eylul> well of it is 5 past lets get this thing started. 
[19:35] <eylul> #startmeeting "UbuntuStudio weekly check-in"     
[19:35] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Dec 20 19:35:52 2016 UTC.  The chair is eylul. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[19:35] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[19:36] <eylul> #chair ovenwerks
[19:36] <meetingology> Current chairs: eylul ovenwerks
[19:36] <eylul> #topic Welcome and Agenda
[19:36] <eylul> #subtopic meetingology
[19:36] <eylul> We are using meetingology this week. 
[19:36] <eylul> When giving updates please use #done: tasks completed e.g. "#done finished system tab for ubuntu-controls" 
[19:36] <eylul> When giving a summary of a situation or giving additional context use #info tag: e.g. "#info in last release we removed this package because of a bug
[19:36] <eylul> When putting an idea when discussing an item use: "#idea how about we make the icons blue"
[19:36] <eylul> If there is a place where you need input/help from another team member: "#help ardour backport needs more testing before the release candidate is posted"     
[19:36] <eylul> #subtopic Agenda
[19:37] <eylul> Ovenwerks: ok so, short meeting or work hour?
[19:37] <OvenWerks> For the record, Len has found out that the current -controls has serious limits to only being able to setup system kinds of things and not User-session things
[19:37] <OvenWerks> Short meeting first.
[19:37] <eylul> ok
[19:37] <eylul> #topic Team Updates
[19:38] <eylul> #info: Len has found out that the current -controls has serious limits to only being able to setup system kinds of things and not User-session things
[19:38] <OvenWerks> Just so others can look at the minutes and see where things are.
[19:39] <OvenWerks> Therefore controls will have to be redesigned to move ahead in the session setup kinds of things like audio setup or writing tablet setup.
[19:40] <OvenWerks> I have really done not much more since we discussed this a few days ago.
[19:40]  * OvenWerks has built a case for his mandolin instead...
[19:40] <eylul> that sounds fun. I still owe you a gui/interaction design for wacom end. Its been a week a few weeks of too many deadlines. 
[19:41] <OvenWerks> -controls will need to run as the user and use pkexec for just setting system things rether than to run the whole utility.
[19:42] <eylul> #info you have any other updates, before we do dive into the controls details.? (I do have 2 quick updates to add to the record then we can discuss controls a bit more in details) 
[19:42] <eylul> #undo
[19:42] <meetingology> Removing item from minutes: INFO
[19:42] <eylul> #info -controls will need to run as the user and use pkexec for just setting system things rether than to run the whole utility.
[19:43] <OvenWerks> To make this work, -controls has been broken into two parts, the GUI/user side and the system side. Right now the User side is in python and the system side sh
[19:43] <OvenWerks> I think thats it.
[19:43] <eylul> ok, I do actually want to ask you more about this. let me just copy paste other updates of the week.
[19:43] <eylul> before we get to it
[19:43] <OvenWerks> np
[19:44] <eylul> #help Ross has a blog post up on how to help out with testing, daily isos. Please help out when you can. (more information on mailing list)
[19:46] <eylul> #help CFHowlett has posted the holiday art event to facebook. Feel free to share your art and works done in ubuntustudio in the group or page. 
[19:46] <eylul> #topic Controls
[19:46] <eylul> sorry 
[19:46] <eylul> ok so 
[19:46] <eylul> wasn't there a reply in ML about not using pkexec?
[19:47] <eylul> *is somewhat confused* 
[19:47] <OvenWerks> it would depend on who made the comment.
[19:48] <OvenWerks> pkexec is the normal way of elevating a user's status in Ubuntu.
[19:48] <eylul> ok
[19:49] <OvenWerks> gksu should not be used
[19:50] <eylul> *nods* because then everything is executed as root, and that causes problems with the things that needs to be run as user, like the audio issue you described earlier
[19:50] <eylul> (?)
[19:51] <OvenWerks> Right. SO the proper way is to run the GUI as suer and then run the system parts as pkexec <system_program-program>
[19:51] <OvenWerks> s/suer/user/
[19:51] <eylul> *nods* 
[19:52] <eylul> out of curiosity, is there a reason why system side scripts are written in sh, rather than python as well, or just more convenient for you? (I have no objection, just curious)
[19:52] <OvenWerks> All of the software installers use pkexec behind things
[19:53] <OvenWerks> sh for system scripts are well understood. I think it will be simpler
[19:53] <eylul> ok
[19:55] <OvenWerks> I suppose we should matbe try it both ways  and see which looks best. But I think it will be sh first... just because I have part of it done.
[19:55] <eylul> ah, well we can always move it to python, later
[19:56] <OvenWerks> Yes.
[19:56] <eylul> I was just thinking more for consistency and updatability. :) 
[19:57] <eylul> but ok :) Awesome
[19:57] <OvenWerks> There will probably be more sh bits than python bits... but GUOs are not so easy in sh...
[19:57] <eylul> well I am all for using toolkits for GUI
[19:57] <OvenWerks> GUIs
[19:58] <OvenWerks> Ya. SO the python bit is what people will see, but /etc/init.d/ubuntustudio is sh like the rest of the files in there.
[19:59] <eylul> ah I see what you mean
[19:59] <OvenWerks> There will be an Audio starter that will be sh, there is the system setup in sh
[20:00] <eylul> *nods*
[20:00] <OvenWerks> Actually, I might be best to say session starter rather than Audio starter as there may be other things besides just audio that gets set at session start if you have a tablet.
[20:00] <eylul> actually I would think
[20:01] <eylul> there would be a session starter, but then each script would be its own?
[20:01] <eylul> rather than piling everything into same file
[20:01] <eylul> just my 2 cents at least
[20:01] <OvenWerks> case: tablet; do stuff?
[20:02] <eylul> sorry?
[20:03] <eylul> (sorry I couldn't parse that)
[20:03] <OvenWerks> Basically I am saying that a part of the script can be set aside for different things rather than having lots of files.
[20:03] <eylul> yeah but keeping it modular can make it easier to fix and update it later
[20:03] <eylul> sh scripts become quite spagetti as it is, in my experience :D
[20:03] <OvenWerks> We don't run the tablet part if there is none... we don't run jack if the user doesn't want it.
[20:03] <eylul> *nods*
[20:03] <eylul> yup
[20:03] <OvenWerks> Possibly yes.
[20:04] <eylul> another reason for keeping them separate
[20:04] <eylul> I mean it is not a huge issue either way, but just thinking down the line when somebody wants to dig into this and fix a bug, that they can reasonably understand what is going on
[20:04] <eylul> :)
[20:05] <eylul> and the whole idea of tablet not being there is very likely to happen. (some people do keep their tablet on all the time, but not everybody, so actually handling hot plugging will be nice if we can do that eventually)
[20:06] <OvenWerks> I want to do something reasonable with hot plugging various things in.
[20:07] <eylul> *nods*
[20:07] <OvenWerks> For me the audio device hot plug is real important :), but I realize there is a lot more stuff out there than that.
[20:08] <eylul> wacoms are a big one. 
[20:08] <eylul> some people have external video cards but I am not familiar with the workflow for those
[20:08] <eylul> anything else is kind of reasonably handled
[20:09] <eylul> like external screens. 
[20:10] <eylul> in terms of the tablet settings, do we want to split it off to its own package?
[20:10] <eylul> on one hand: its nice to have it all in same place, in other hand, a wacom tablet setup utility would be useful to other distros as well
[20:10] <OvenWerks> What if you had One of https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/ca/products/intensitypro4k and plug another cammera in?
[20:11] <eylul> RIGHT
[20:11]  * OvenWerks comes from a broadcast background
[20:11] <eylul> no we need to pool our experiences in
[20:11] <eylul> that is a good question
[20:12] <eylul> ok so *makes a list of things to hot plug*
[20:12] <OvenWerks> I am thinking that live use of video inputs is on it's way as the computer power is getting there.
[20:13] <eylul> well isn't it already done?
[20:13] <eylul> or do you mean doing so without external cards?
[20:13] <OvenWerks> In the TV world it is called a switcher. But there is normally a fader of some sort with effected fades.
[20:14] <OvenWerks> There are video switchers in sw, not very many, not very advanced
[20:14] <OvenWerks> most are built around firewire inputs.
[20:14] <OvenWerks> My DSLR has an HDMI out, no firewire, not really any USB either.
[20:15] <OvenWerks> I don't think HDMI inputs are yet well delt with in the computer world
[20:15] <eylul> *nods*
[20:16] <OvenWerks> (maybe content providers don't want that?)
[20:16] <eylul> there was blocks for a while on audio input for that reason
[20:16] <eylul> which was a pain because I was using my mic input to record stuff, so possible, but I assume it is because most consumer items don't have an HDMI out
[20:17] <OvenWerks> there still is for somethings. spdif will only allow so many copies if it is not "original"
[20:17] <eylul> I can't think of anything I use that requires a video/image in, except my cellphone/camera to take picture via tether, which works fine via usb
[20:17] <OvenWerks> lots of consumer stuff has hdmi out, almost all computers and DVD player do.
[20:18] <eylul> HDMI out yes
[20:18] <OvenWerks> HDMI in is a screen only thing :)
[20:18] <eylul> but usually you need HDMI outs to connect to screens and projectors on daily use, not another computer
[20:18] <eylul> (although the question does come up once in a while :D)
[20:18] <OvenWerks> I don't think there are dvd recorders with them.
[20:19] <OvenWerks> For content creation hdmi in is useful
[20:19] <eylul> *nods*
[20:19] <eylul> no now that you are explaining this, I am realizing it is
[20:21] <eylul> ok so back to the topic
[20:21] <eylul> capture cards, graphic tablets, audio cards/microphones etc, possibly video cards (?)
[20:21] <eylul> (also 10 minutes to wrapping up the meeting, we are almost at the hour)
[20:22] <OvenWerks> video cards are normally installed withy power off, but there are USB/thunderbolt things too.
[20:22] <eylul> *nods*
[20:22] <eylul> I see
[20:23] <OvenWerks> I am wondering what happens though with an internal video card when a video signal is plugged in or removed. Because that is detectable.
[20:23] <OvenWerks> There can be more than one video stream... and up to 8 or 16 audio streams too.
[20:23]  * eylul has no clue
[20:24] <OvenWerks> Another whole topic would be sync  ;)
[20:24] <OvenWerks> All video has sync
[20:24] <OvenWerks> (which is why it is detectable)
[20:26] <eylul> *nods*
[20:26] <eylul> yeah
[20:26] <eylul> why do I have a sinking feeling that we will need outside help to test some of these things?
[20:27] <eylul> (unless you do have tools to test some of the video/capture stuff)
[20:27] <OvenWerks> https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/ca/products/decklink/techspecs/W-DLK-06 is the one I was looking for... it is actually within my range :)
[20:28] <OvenWerks> It would allow me to have live video from my DSLR to linux.
[20:28] <eylul> wait.. you are not going to buy that JUST to test controls right?
[20:29] <OvenWerks> It would work with a lot more than controls. But I also have a son who is interested in movie making
[20:29] <eylul> aaah
[20:29] <eylul> :D
[20:29] <OvenWerks> We have tried to do some stop motion animation with just teathering sw. which has been ok too.
[20:29] <eylul> I think I remember the results of that :D
[20:30] <eylul> if you have a cellphone with a good camera
[20:30] <eylul> you could try connecting that via usb and see what happens?
[20:30] <eylul> actually, now I am curious. can I tether video from my cellphone...
[20:30] <OvenWerks> I could use a webcam for some things... but someone needs to clear of their table so they have room to do things :P
[20:31] <OvenWerks> You may be able to use your cellpohne as a webcam.
[20:31] <eylul> well my cellphone has a higher resolution than a webcam
[20:31] <OvenWerks> From what I have seen, webcam latency is over 100ms.
[20:32] <OvenWerks> Using V4L
[20:32] <OvenWerks> I don't know if that can be adjusted, or is a part of USB or...
[20:32] <eylul> V4L == VLC?
[20:32] <OvenWerks> V4L - Video 4 linux
[20:32] <eylul> yeah well one way to find out
[20:32] <OvenWerks> It is the standard video driver
[20:33] <OvenWerks> (you prolly have it)
[20:34] <eylul> *nods*
[20:34] <eylul> well something for me to try
[20:34] <eylul> anyhow shall we wrap up the meeting?
[20:34] <OvenWerks> Sure.
[20:35] <eylul> #topic Closing
[20:35] <eylul> #info no meeting next week, happy holidays! We'll meet in the new year
[20:35] <eylul> #endmeeting
[20:35] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Dec 20 20:35:30 2016 UTC.  
[20:35] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntustudio-devel/2016/ubuntustudio-devel.2016-12-20-19.35.moin.txt
[20:39] <OvenWerks> Libv4l seems to be a part of the kernel these days
[20:40] <eylul> I see
[20:41] <eylul> yeah I have no idea. it is something I will have to figure out through, I am currently working on a couple of project that might require it
[20:41] <eylul> anyhow I am off. happy holidays?
[20:41] <OvenWerks> I don't know what utilities we have to deal with it though...
[20:41] <OvenWerks> Happy hollidays to you as well.
[20:41] <OvenWerks> Yf be calling me too
[20:41] <eylul> (I am not mainly not sure if the computer can see cellphone as a video device. *is failing currently at doing that)
[20:41] <OvenWerks> bye
[20:41] <eylul> bye!
[23:35] <OvenWerks> eylul: an android (er iphone) will look like a mtp device (aka smart storage device). Probably if it was rooted you could run something to make it look like something else (I Know it is possible to get them to look like network devices)